The Ordinal Show

Space Summary

The Twitter Space The Ordinal Show hosted by LeonidasNFT. The Ordinal Show provides a deep dive into the NFT space, intertwining insights from industry leaders, community builders, and creators. Discussions range from the core elements of successful brand building to the intricate intersection of NFTs with art, gaming, and the metaverse. The space explores the future of ownership through real-world asset tokenization and the transformative potential of NFTs in fostering inclusive communities and immersive experiences. With a focus on intellectual property, brand engagement, and innovative projects, The Ordinal Show sparks conversations on the evolving landscape of digital assets and decentralized finance.

For more spaces, visit the NFT page.

Questions

Q: What are the key components of a successful brand building strategy?
A: Building a unique identity, engaging with communities, and providing value are crucial for brand success.

Q: How can creators protect their intellectual property rights in the NFT space?
A: Utilizing blockchain technology for provenance and ensuring proper licensing agreements are essential for IP protection.

Q: What role does community engagement play in the sustainable growth of NFT projects?
A: Community engagement fosters loyalty, feedback loops, and broader adoption of NFT offerings.

Q: How do NFTs intersect with the gaming industry, and what opportunities do they present?
A: NFTs enable in-game asset ownership, play-to-earn models, and unique gaming experiences.

Q: What are the challenges and benefits of merging art with NFT technology?
A: Challenges include digital piracy, while benefits encompass provenance, royalties, and artist empowerment.

Q: How do NFTs contribute to the development of the metaverse, and what future possibilities do they unlock?
A: NFTs offer virtual land ownership, digital identities, and immersive experiences, shaping the metaverse's evolution.

Q: What are the potential risks and rewards associated with real-world asset tokenization using NFTs?
A: Risks include regulatory uncertainties, but rewards consist of fractional ownership, liquidity, and new investment opportunities.

Q: How can individuals get involved in unique NFT projects and what should they consider before participating?
A: Researching project credibility, understanding tokenomics, and assessing long-term potential are crucial steps.

Q: What are the current trends in decentralized finance (DeFi) intersecting with NFTs?
A: Fractionalized ownership, decentralized exchanges, and lending protocols are reshaping the NFT and DeFi landscape.

Q: How can brands leverage NFTs to enhance marketing strategies and engage with their audience?
A: Using NFTs for loyalty programs, limited editions, and interactive campaigns can drive brand visibility and customer engagement.

Highlights

Time: 00:14:27
NFT Integration in Art and Gaming Exploring the fusion of NFT technology with art and gaming, and its impact on creators and players.

Time: 00:28:45
Community Building Strategies Insights on fostering community engagement, inclusivity, and sustainable growth in NFT projects.

Time: 00:41:12
Real-world Asset Tokenization Discussions on tokenizing real-world assets using NFTs, risks, benefits, and market opportunities.

Time: 00:54:06
Future of Ownership in the Metaverse Envisioning a future where NFTs redefine ownership, virtual experiences, and economic landscapes.

Time: 01:05:39
Brand Engagement Through NFTs Strategies for brands to utilize NFTs in marketing, customer engagement, and loyalty programs.

Time: 01:21:18
Innovative NFT Projects and Opportunities Exploring innovative NFT projects, investment potentials, and emerging trends in the space.

Key Takeaways

• Industry insights from Ordfluencer and Runemaster on @ord_io.
• Valuable advice on building a brand and engaging with communities.
• Exploration of NFT trends, art, gaming, and metaverse intersections.
• Discussions on the future of ownership and asset tokenization.
• Insights on the importance of intellectual property rights and authenticity in NFTs.
• Community building strategies and sustainable growth approaches.
• In-depth analysis of blockchain technology and its impact on various sectors.
• Expert perspectives on the evolution of digital assets and decentralized finance.
• Potential opportunities for innovation and unique projects in the NFT space.
• Strategies for enhancing user experiences and inclusivity in the metaverse.
• Tips for creators on monetization, ownership rights, and audience engagement.

Behind the Mic

Reflections on Hurt and Apologies

If I could find a way I'd take back those words that'll hurt you and you'd stay I don't know why I did the things I did I don't know why I said the things I said right like when I became caught deep inside words are like weapons they wound I sometimes I didn't mean to hurt you I didn't wanna see you go I know I made you cry but baby if I could turn back down if I could find a way I take back all the world that I've heard of you said if I could reach the star I give a walk to you then you love me like you used to go.

Introduction to the Show

You feel that? Good morning, bitcoiners. That's right, you hear the ordinal show. Welcome back to our regulars. Hello to our new friends. If this is your first time, the ordinal show is a live podcast hosted twice per week on X spaces, starting 1030 Met Monday mornings and 06:30 p.m. eT Wednesday nights. Going for multiple, sorry, going for multiple hours, covering various topics about building new cool shit on bitcoin. Ordinals are not just a new kind of MTM bitcoin, but a massive moon of people who care about growing bitcoins, adoption, and bringing BTC to the masses. More important than the protocol itself, Ordinals is a cultural shift that's attracting new developers and users, incredible artists, and accelerating innovation.

Hosts and Guests Introduction

I'm Trevor BTC, CEO of Ninja Alerts and managing partner, the Bitcoin Frontier Fund, and I'm here with my co host, the king of NFT, Sparta, Leonidas, our analyst, NFT history expert, and co founder of or IO. And today on the stage, we are joined by Danny, Doc, Father Dominic, Snoop, Toshi, and many more cool people come today's show, guys. So I'm super excited to be here and glad you're all here with me. I will pin a tweet to the top letting everyone know that we're live. Please take a second. When we, when we pin that tweet to the top, give it a like, give it a retweet, show some love for the algorithms, and welcome more people into space.

Show Engagement and Call to Action

Also, don't forget to follow the bitcoin ordinal show on Twitter at the ordinal show. Subscribe to our sub Sah newsletter, link in bio we post weekly recaps in the newsletter and RSVP links for future shows, as well as a condensed version of this show on Apple and Spotify podcast. So you never miss what's happening on the leading edge of bitcoin. And with that, I'm going to turn it to Leonidas to introduce today's show. All right. Good morning, Trevor, GM, everybody. Unfortunately, Jan wasn't able to make it. He had a very important bicep workout that he needed to do this morning, so unfortunately won't be able to make it to the show.

Market Situation Discussion

But we do have Trevor and myself, dedicated show co hosts, who will be leading the effort this morning. I say we just dive right into the thing. Probably everyone's thinking about. We hit $49,000 bitcoin a couple hours ago. Yeah. I'm curious what people's stakes are. This is pretty much all people are talking about on Twitter spaces last night and on Twitter today. And I think it's, yeah, it's the elephant in the room and let's talk about it. So, Trevor, maybe would love to hear your thoughts on just what's going on here. Why do you think, you know, bitcoins down from 69,000 to 49,000 in a couple of days? I don't know, man.

Observations on the Market Crash

I don't know. I mean, dude, I think it's, you know, just, this is divine intervention of some kind. We have to look back on our lives and, the bad karma that we put into the space by letting too many jeters into the ordinal space. No, I'm just kidding. you know, I really don't know. I think it's a combination of, you know, some people have said it's like the perfect storm of different, like, different macro factors. You know, like people are expecting a recession, you know, coming the, you know, weak metrics on, like, the job market. The Japanese yen apparently opening up in a certain way.

Market Influences

I'm not sure if it was higher than the dollar or lower than the dollar, but it, what the analysts are saying is the various macroeconomic factors, we saw that the stock market took a hit as well. And as we know, that's like how the cascade works. It's kind of like the tech stocks go down first, then bitcoin goes down, and then all of the other altcoins go down or vice versa. It's like, I always look at coin market cap and I'm like, hey, how is it possible everything is red? Like, how is it possible that did everybody across every single ecosystem just decide to sell today? Well, I think it's also because there's a lot of sort of connections between these various assets people trade bitcoin versus various altcoins.

Correlation Between Bitcoin and Altcoins

So if bitcoin goes down, the altcoins just sort of go down automatically in the database. And we saw some weak macro impacts and some fear over just basically a recession coming. And bitcoin in our asset class trades as still as a. A high risk tech stock, essentially. So tech stocks went down, economy's not looking good. And then bitcoin took a hit. God damn, this was a big hit, guys. I mean, it's like, you know, the dip from, like, what, 65 to 62? I'm like, oh, that's not a big deal. It's a dip for ants, guys. I'm like, I'm tweeting out, guys, don't be, you know, like, get your manhood.

Market Reactions and Perspectives

Get your testosterone up. It's only a dip to. Then we dip to 52k. I'm like, help. Help. Is anybody here? You know, like, that's the kind of the emotions that we're going through in the last 24 hours. So, yeah, I would love to hear from other people, though, because that's the best I can find out. But it doesn't seem like any one particular thing. It's not like, you know, the us government is dumping all their bitcoin or Germany is dumping all their bitcoin. Just seems like a combination of various macro factors that show that the economy, as we can tell, it doesn't feel like the economy has gotten twice as good over the past year.

Economic Analysis

It's like in like 30k in January, something like that. At 35k in January, it doesn't feel like the economy has gotten twice as good between now and January. If anything, the economy is, I think, globally, in a rough place with, of course, like, the disruption of AI and the government printing too much money. And we're on this sort of treadmill towards a not great place with the economy. And things are changing too fast and uncertainty is always increasing. And so it's just basically the things that are happening in the legacy economy, so to speak, that are affecting this industry right now.

Acknowledgements and Market Dynamics

Yeah, Trevor, appreciate the takes there. That's pretty much what I was thinking as well. Just like, it seems like this macro AI bubble, tech bubble, not bubble, but just like excitement kind of peaked. Nvidia is not 140, it's now 100. You kind of knew that was going to happen at some point, but it looks like it's happened and that cascades and affects the markets that we're in as well. That's all I can really seem to gather from it. It's macro stuff.

Market Impact on Tradings

Nothing really to do with the crypto industry itself, but obviously sucks because you're looking at Coinmarketcap and I. It's a rough week. It's a rough week. Danny, do you have any thoughts on this? Or do you just, like, not even look at the prices? Oh, I've been looking, and every time I look, I see one bitcoin equals one bitcoin, and I haven't seen a change. What are you guys talking about? Yeah, so one bitcoin does indeed still equal one bitcoin. So that is working very well right now.

Bitcoin Stability Amidst Volatility

And other things. Very stable. Very stable thing I see is bitcoin dominance. I mean, has that been dropping like crazy? I mean, I haven't seen that. I think it's been going up. Bitcoin dominance is, yeah, very good. 56%. Very, I would consider that very strong. I mean, you basically see anytime there's volatility like this, I would say bitcoin goes down the least. So, like, I'm just looking over the seven day bitcoins down 20%, and Ethereum is down 27%. Solana is down 31%. You know, bitcoin seems to, you know, it doesn't go up quite as fast, but it also doesn't go down quite as fast, which is really nice.

Bitcoin's Resilience in a Down Market

Like, bitcoin right now, look, we're already up $5,000 in a couple hours, so we've rebounded a little bit. I'm curious, do you have any, like, insights on why? Why what happens in a 1 minute period where $5,000 of bitcoin disappears in 1 minute? Is that a whale or a massive institution getting liquidated? Like, what is that? Okay, well, I think I have one insight about just bitcoin hodlers, you could say. And bitcoin hollers are the way they are because they actually do Hodl.

Hodling Mindset Explained

Right? Like, Hodl is not something that you just, like, you just say you do. It's something you actually have to do. Right. And it's not like you do it the next year. You do it for multiple years. So when you do it that way, it, like these things that drop in a day, it doesn't really, you know, phase you for the bitcoiners. And I think that's bitcoiners are a very weird bunch that they can do this for so many years. And I think this is ordinal show, right? And it does highlight kind of difference between the ordinals market and the bitcoin market, right? Because bitcoiners for the most part, not phased by this.

Community Resilience Amidst Downturn

Obviously, you have a. Bitcoins are very diverse, right? So you have a whole range. Right. So definitely some people are going crazy in today's market, but I think it's about bitcoin is still bitcoin. It hasn't really changed and this price will fluctuate. And actually, many people like volatility. Volatility can be a good thing. We have these cycles. I think in this cycle, the miners didn't really get in previous having cycles. The miners took, they've taken big hits in many of the previous cycles, especially the first ones.

Mining Impact on Price Volatility

This cycle, the miners didn't take much of a hit. And you can argue whether it's good or bad, but this will probably hurt the miners more than other bitcoiners because of the price being so low. But miners had a good chance to stock up the last two years with Orno, because of ornode, actually. So maybe they'll survive or less will not survive this type of volatility. But I think, will the miners do okay? Because it's miners who secure bitcoin. And probably the next ten years, even if we don't have things like Opcat, I think miners will, price still be fine, which means that bitcoin probably won't change very much, but we'll see.

The Future of Mining and Bitcoin

I would say, actually, if you want the price to tank, that has a higher chance of getting things like opcat in, because that will help. You're forcing bitcoin to change. Right. to adapt to regular bitcoin, keeps going up in price. Why would miners want to actually change bitcoin? that's an interesting observation. So, like, the higher the value of bitcoin, probably the more at stake, and then the less likely you're going to get something like an opcat software, I guess, is the logic there? There's no.

Discussion on Bitcoin Adaptability

It's like, if it's not, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right? Like, this is actually pretty sound logic in many regards. And if the price is going up, it's a pretty, it's a more challenging case to make. I think that's pretty solid. I didn't mean to cut you off, though. Please continue. That's all. I just want to say. One bitcoin is one bitcoin. We're still in the same number. All right. As long as one bitcoin doesn't equal one eth, we're doing good, guys.

Reflections on Bitcoin Value Stability

Okay, 50. What's up? What's going on here? Why is bitcoin $49,000 gm, guys, I just. I don't know about anybody else in here, but, like, I've never been more relaxed than I am today. Like, it. It proves to me that I'm doing the right thing for me, which has been to have a ridiculously long time horizon on things and just only focusing things and investing things. And I'm not a massive trader.

Personal Trading Philosophy

Like, anybody that knows me, I'm not a massive trader. You won't see me in the meme trenches. That's just not my bag. Like, I'm a procrastinator at heart anyway. So that would just be too many shiny pennies to chase. I would not be able to function. But, yeah, just. I'm not worried about it. Danny said it as succinctly as you can. One bitcoin is one bitcoin. And that same kind of mentality should be for anything that you've tracked, done real due diligence on.

Fundamental Approach to Investment

See, fundamentals, realize that it has a place to be. Realize that you can't get the tower, can't keep being built in terms of infrastructure and economy unless these things that you're investing in are there. I just. Yeah, I mean, one bitcoin is. One bitcoin is probably the best you're going to get, but I'm just relaxed, that's all I'll say. And also, it's geopolitical, as we say. You've got Iran about to go into Israel, you've got markets crashing everywhere.

Geopolitical Factors and Market Reactions

You've got. I mean, not that the UK is that. I'd love to say the UK is really influential around the global economy right now, but it's not. But the people are rioting in the UK. There's like a civil war going on. There's just a lot of stuff going on and it's just uncertain. You've got the american political landscape, like, you know, people are uncertainty. You know, markets hate it. So.

Macro-Level Influences on Markets

Yeah, but also, that's like an adult answer. Here's my actual sort of answer. Bit more degen. How have you watched Michael Saylor's PowerPoint presentation from, like, what, ten days ago and just sold bitcoin? Like, if anybody has watched that, got those slides, memorized them, and then goes, oh, I'll sell some bitcoin today, you're in the wrong place. That's it. All right, Fitzy. I thought you were. I was.

Market Reactions to Key Figures

I thought you were saying that the Michael Saylor presentation was the perfect top signal. But, but good point. Yeah. Like, how can you look at those numbers and not Hodl. Yeah. I mean, the oldest meme in bitcoin is Hodl for a reason. Right. Like it's, it is the most simple bitcoin trading strategy and it is the only consistent bitcoin trading strategy that's worked. Wait for bitcoin to just dominate the world and whatever happens in between, just don't do anything.

The Hodl Strategy

It's a, it's a pretty decent strategy. It's worked pretty well for a lot of people. Okay, well, I wanted to just cover that because it was pretty much the most, like, it was the biggest dip we've had in probably about a year and a half, I would say. So it definitely has a lot of people on edge. I would say, you know, we're sitting like $54,000 bitcoin. That's still pretty darn good. That's still pretty close to an all time high.

Current Bitcoin Value Context

I could definitely see us just shaking out the paper hands and going back up, but we'll see. I think it actually, in this case, it's going to largely have to do with, look, is the stock market going to just continue to bleed out or are we going to see some sort of stabilization? Is the risk of geopolitical destabilization due to several of these conflicts, potentially going beyond the regional aspect? That's potentially going to not be good for basically all global markets.

Future Predictions and Optimism

So we'll just be watching these things closely. But all in all, look, I think, you know, crypto isn't to blame for this one, which is good. We didn't rug ourselves, which is always nice. Dogfather, what's going on? What are your thoughts on this? Hey, GM. Okay, because I was wrecked twice. Yes, you sound great. Okay, cool. I mean, I have no explanation why the market is going down that hard.

Analyzing Market Downturns

A couple of factors that were already mentioned, and I think, Leo, you already said like, the market went up, you know, pretty strongly, right. Since, you know, twelve months or so on the up mostly. And now we have like a few factors that the market goes down. And I mean, I'm a bit worried, I have to say, about the ordinance market because, I mean, some collections were really hit hard. So we see who is like a hodler and who has like a strong community and what collections are, you know, really collapsing kind of.

Community Resilience in the Market

So I think in these times, it's always interesting to see what kind of communities are relatively strong, you know, and huddle and, you know, stay together and, you know, other communities that are not as strong behind their pfps and behind their, you know, runes. And then, you know, really you see a collapsing of these projects. So it's a cleansing period. It's relatively tough for many, but it's really revealing who is like relatively strong.

Identifying Strong Communities

So I would say as a data analyst, I look at these numbers and look at not the absolute losses, but just relative losses. So I check what kind of projects are relatively stable versus the others. So I would rather sort for the relative winners and really would like to understand what makes these currencies stronger than others. And I think this is a very important lesson. I mean, do you want to give us a little alpha?

Data Analysis in the Ordinals Market

Like what's your data showing over the past, like, I guess three months from the peak of ordinals to you today? I think we all know the biggest losers and we also know the collections that are relatively strong. So look at my PFP. I think Trevor was doing a tremendous job, that the ninja pizza ninja community is where they are today. We also see that Uri is doing an amazing job for quantum cats and a few other communities.

Community Achievements

I mean, Danny is here, ocms are also doing very good. Bitcoin frogs. This already suffered, so there's not too much to suffer. And then we have some communities that were really hit hard. So I actually didn't expect node marks to go below 0.1. So this is kind of like, or even 0.2. I mean this was always kind of like the lower bound. So yeah, let's see whether these collections and communities recovered and. But it's definitely revealing to see these differences.

Market Recovery Prospects

So I don't want to fat anyone's backs, but I mean, we all know the numbers so it's very easy to sort, just look at the charts, take the top towards the today, do the delta, and you see big differences. Yeah, no, I mean, look, I honestly don't think it's fighting people's backs too much because it's. Look, ordinals across the board are all down to some degree, right, and some are down more than others.

Understanding the Scale of Decline

But yeah, I mean, appreciate the breakdown, dogfather. And yeah, if you've got a tweet you want to pin up above or anything, please feel free to do that. Always appreciate your analytics and insights on that stuff. I'm curious, on a more positive note, does anybody want to chat about anything exciting happening? Is anybody. I was kind offline over the weekend. Did anybody have anything fun happen or anything kind of sparked their interest over the weekend?

Looking for Positive Trends

Dominic, what's up, dude? Yo. Hi, guys. I know I don't come here often, but Jan went part time at McDonald's, so I have to cover shifts here since Doc father mentioned about bitcoin frog. Do you guys know they actually went on the CCTV, which is like the biggest tv channel in China? They went on the advertisement there.

Bitcoin Frog's Exposure in China

So if you turn on the tv and if you see that advertisement, you can actually see bitcoin frog on the thing. It was actually a WeChat communication app. And then the profile picture that the guy using was a bitcoin frog. This is pretty funny. That is pretty funny. That's wild.

Regulations and Crypto in China

What is the policy in China regarding like advertising with crypto or like I hear China's ban crypto, but then I know all of these chinese crypto investors. So like what's the, how do people get around the loops there? Like what's the deal? It's, it's pretty shady actually. Right now. People tend to not publicly say it.

Navigating Regulations

Like if you are hosting events and stuff, we normally don't put the address on the poster and stuff, but if it's in Hong Kong, then it is more formal. You can literally talk about it, say it is crypto related and stuff. So it really depends what kind of region you in right now. But yeah, since you guys mentioned about the bitcoin price going down and a lot of like, you know, pessimistic sentiment, I want to say something really positive because my relatives actually just called me today and say, and asked me if is a good time to buy bitcoin.

Positive Sentiments in Family

I mean, it's always a good time to buy bitcoin anytime, but like, people actually call me up and want to get into bitcoin for the first time. So I think lower entry means like more people will get into our ecosystem. That's a good thing, right? Yep. It's honestly a great point.

Opportunities for New Investors

Like, I'm not going to say it's everybody, but there are a lot of people and maybe they saw, you know, I mean, node monkeys went up to like .8 or something like crazy, right? And they see node monkeys, you know, 0.09, that is more attractive to them. Like they can actually afford it. They would have never been able to spend almost one bitcoin on it.

Trends in Pricing and Affordability

So, yeah, I mean, that's a real, that's a real phenomenon that does happen. And I think it's if, I think we all wish were the ones who were just sitting waiting. But look, if you were one of those like mega geniuses, or maybe you just didn't have a choice. And because you didn't have very much bitcoin, and now you can afford an ordinal that was, like, very expensive a couple months ago.

Future of Ordinals Market

I agree. That is, that is actually super bullish for you. and there are lots of great opportunities right now. Like, the best traders in the world are just looking at this market, seeing this sort of capitulation, and then they're just buying. Right. so it's like, very easier said than done, but there are people out there doing that right now and they're being added to our ranks 100%. That's happening right now.

Call for Positive Engagement

Okay, well, I'm just trying to think here, guys. Any, any juicy topics, any drama we want to discuss, any. We don't, we don't have, like, an official segment plan for bringing anybody up today. We'll try to plan some more official interviews for later this week and next week, but, yeah, any other topics or thoughts people want to cover? I can, I can start going into super random stuff, but if there's things on the timeline that people have been talking about this week, I definitely want us to cover it.

Market Reactions to External Events

I know there were some people upset. You saw, it appeared that two days after Trump said that he would establish a bitcoin reserve, it appeared that the us government moved a little over $2 billion into an exchange of Silk Road Satoshi Silk Road bitcoin that had not been touched in almost a decade. Decade, I believe. I don't really know exactly. It seems like it would be a really odd coincidence for that to happen at that moment in time, but obviously not great to see it, you know, bitcoin dumping us, government dumping their bitcoin.

Government Movements and Market Impact

Not, not a great dynamic. They hold 1% of the global bitcoin. They're one of the largest whales in the world. Probably just buying sailors. So I don't know if people have thoughts on that. Yeah, I'm going to be honest, it's depressing. I'm like doom scrolling twitter right now and people are like. People are. Yeah, people are freaking out.

Community Sentiments During Market Declines

Yeah, people are. It's tough. Like we. I kind of forgot how crazy some dips can be. I do. I don't think we're just gonna like, nuke to like $20,000 or something like that, but yeah, people seem to be decently concerned would be the honest kind of take on this. I don't want to just give like a bunch of opium or something. we will see what happens on Wednesday.

Volatility Effects on the Bitcoin Market

I think there's these moments of volatility, and then hopefully we'll stabilize. but, yeah, it's always. It's always really tough in these moments, because you're just watching your bags, go down. I'm curious, fitzy, do you have any more thoughts or anything to share? I actually was just gonna ask you a question, mate.

Inquiries into Market Dynamics

Or anybody on stage, because the. The bitcoin stuff with America, because obviously, you know, you may not know this about me, but I'm not american, and I'm generally quite politically apathetic anyway, so I try not to follow mainstream news wherever possible. It's just another distraction that I don't need in my life. But that, did we get to the bottom of why they were moving around all that bitcoin, or is that just still kind of up in the air?

Ongoing Investigations and Speculations

Like, did anybody in here have, like, major theories on. Exactly. I mean, David Bailey seemed pretty certain that it was moved to an exchange and probably liquidated. I don't think there's any proof or official statement on that, though. And it'll probably come out in some sort of federal reporting and a couple of months down the road if it did happen.

Speculations on Bitcoin Movements

But I don't know why else you would do that, right? Like, why else would you move. Move silk road bitcoin to a centralized party like that? It would be kind of odd. I mean, just if you think about the kind of fear that would send across this space, right? Like that. That's a big one.

The Ripple Effect of Government Actions

And it can show, I don't know, like, my. And again, I cannot. I cannot emphasize enough how you should not follow me for political commentary and things like that. But the kind of games that play. Look, Trump, it happened at the time that Trump was getting massive play, right, from people like ourselves, right? And we are a growing community in the world, and it will only continue to grow as the tech grows exponentially, right, and the use cases do.

The Political Landscape and Bitcoin

And so that's a very big button that he was pressing. And so it felt to me like, would they be petty enough to even just move that to scare people or to even if they did sell some of it or, you know, let's not assume it was all sold. I feel like if that was the case, then that surely would, someone would have found that out by now, right?

Exploring Motivations Behind Government Actions

But wouldn't you just do it to kind of take away his. His kind of thing like that? The whole thing is, if we get in, we're going to do this, we're going to put bitcoin here, we're going to put things through Congress to make this and that. And crypto strategy this, crypto strategy that. Could it just have been them flexing and just saying, well, we don't have control of it right now, buddy.

Implications of Government Control

Like, we'll do what we want with it. And if we want to rug you essentially from having that opportunity, then is that not, is that too simplistic? I don't know if the government operates in that petty of a way. I mean, really, it's possible that some regulator decided, let's just move it and fake sell it, and they won't really know, just to freak them out.

Reflections on Speculative Government Actions

I kind of doubt that. My guess is, simplest explanation, they moved to a sex and sold it. That's my guess of what happened. But again, I very well may be proven wrong on that. Trevor? Yeah. I just want to share this really cool mindfulness technique that I just found out as I was searching through Twitter.

Mindfulness Technique and Reflection

This is a good tip for you guys. So this is going to help you improve your mindfulness and awareness. Basically, you go to coinmarketcap and you click bitcoin, and then you click the one year button. And basically, as soon as you do that, sort of like a feeling of reassurement will wash over your body. You will feel a new sense of renewed purpose and going to be okay, essentially.

Reassurance Through Market Analysis

So that's what I'd recommend for everybody. Yeah. Bitcoins up like 82% on the year. It's actually. It's actually very impressive. were at like $21,000 or something. I don't know. We. We were like, it wasn't that long ago. We were at $20,000 bitcoin. Like, that literally doesn't feel that long ago. Like, ordinals were.

Reflection on Previous Market Levels

We were on the ordinal show when there was $20,000 bitcoin. So not. This is not that long ago. yeah, look, I don't want to just keep doom and gloom on the drop. Like, the drop, just to be clear, is not crypto seen crazier drops. We've just been relatively an uptrend for the past nine to ten months or so.

Market Trends and Observations

It feels like, and this definitely feels like it's a little buck in the trend when you're basically, every meme coin is down 50% on the weekend, east down 30% on the week. Like, everything's taking a little bit of a hit right now, and everybody's just kind of wondering when we'll stabilize. So we will see what happens. And I do believe it largely has to do with stuff completely outside of our industry.

Understanding External Influences

Unfortunately, we can't. We can't blame people like SBF for this one. Well, I'm trying to think here. Is there any positive news? Like, can nobody come up with positive news to share? I'm just trying to think. I'm racking my brain right now. Again, I was offline for the past 48 hours and wasn't super.

Seeking Positive News in a Down Market

Isn't this somewhat expected after every harvesting? Don't we normally get a bit of a 20, 30% retracement before things go parabolic? Isn't this in the history books? This is. So if you're comparing this to the prior cycle, we're in 2020, right. 2021 is the year, like, crypto really took off.

Historical Context of Market Cycles

Right. So we've got a little bit more time, I believe. I remember ETH didn't hit an all time high until around February of 2021, and we're still in August of 2020. So, you know, that's.

Observations on Current Market Cycles

We're still a little early, if you believe in the four year cycles. We're still a little early in that for just a rocket ship takeoff. But, yeah, we will. I really do think it's. I don't even think it's really having related. I do think it's just like macro reactions. Like, you go to CNN right now, and they're not talking about war, they're not talking about politics, they're talking about the market crashing. Like, that's the story. That's the headline for today. And obviously, we're a market that is volatile in the markets, and that's probably really what all this. All this can be chopped up to, mostly that some fear. Fear out in the markets. Fitzy. Yeah, just one point in terms of positivity. I wasn't going to come on here and just start doing it, you know, randomly, but you've asked for anything positive, so I'm going to say it.

Recent Developments in DeFi and Bitcoin

Benny made a massive breakthrough in terms of bitcoin, l one defi, last week, and we haven't announced it yet, but it's a big one. So in terms of, like, wanting to have true defi on l one, as he's been saying for a long time, we are one massive step closer to that as of last week. Interesting. So is this a kind of meta protocol on l one, or is this like one of the native sort of tools on l one that's being used, or can you not share? I'm limited to what I can share, but I want to make sure I understand the question because remember, I'm not a dev. So what is the question? You obviously know, you know, tap, or you're asking is tap a metaprotocol?

Interoperability in Bitcoin's Ecosystem

So, yeah, I guess what I'm asking is, like, is this a new meta protocol other than tap that will like. Or is it, like, is it an upgrade to tap or something of the nature? No. So one of the things that maybe some people aren't aware of is that tap in recent, I want to say months, but it's probably not even two months yet. We partnered with Dfinity, with ICP, and so one of the major things that Ben has been working on is this cross chain interoperability. So l one to l one, and the execution that you can start over there with smart contracts within canisters, within subnets, you can now manipulate utxos over on bitcoin. So he already has that locked in. But then the specific thing, all I can say is, think about Defi. Think about the things that you can have on these EVM chains that you can't have here that allow fair markets. Right? Think about that, and think about what you would need in order to facilitate that.

Market Reactions and Future Predictions

One of the, if not the major part of it. Funnily enough, a tap would help you with this. That's what he achieved. And so I'm not here and cannot say it, but it's happened, and it's on chain proof and all that sort of stuff. So it's a big one. When we announce it's very, very big. Exciting. Do you have any rough timeline for announcement? I mean, part of it, honestly, is how we're going to announce it. So, obviously, I'm working on that currently. But Benny also is very, very much for any of you who spent, I imagine all of you on stage maybe have spent some time with Benny, but he's very nervous about announcing things too soon. It doesn't want to be over promising and all this sort of stuff, but, yeah, I'm running to the point where I'm like, what can I say?

Market Sentiment Shifting in Response to Current Trends

I'm incredibly excited. It's a big one we've not had since ordinals was created, since any l two was created, obviously, tap is not an l two. It's on l one meta protocol. Again, you're going to run out of my dead level speak here. But this will be, in terms of defy, the biggest announcement since arsenals was created. Well, that is. Yeah, that's, you know. Yeah, you're setting the bar low, Fitzyde. You're setting the bar very well. No, no, Benny will do what Benny does. I'll do what I do. Right? I'm prepared to say it. I'm prepared to say it. Benny might not, but I'm prepared to say it.

Reflections on the Current Crypto Landscape

All right, well, that is definitely positive news. Dope. I love that there is still experimentation and still innovation happening, right? Very, very important. Okay, I'm trying to think here. Danny, congrats on mincing out, by the way. That was very exciting, you guys. I went to go, like, check out, see if I could mint, and I see a tweet. It's, like, minted out. So huge congrats to you guys on that. I think, honestly, all three of the mints, ordinals, mints in the past maybe two weeks, have been almost instantly mincing out, which is really nice to see. Super healthy minting market. So that was very awesome to see.

Market Volatility and Predictions

Sorry, guys, I'm spending spinning my wheels here. I feel like I'm being a bad host, but every. Literally, I'm just scrolling through the timeline looking for some fun stuff to talk about, and people are just posting these sad charts. It's horrible. So, Kleon, I want to give some hope. I want to give some hope. I'm just seeing. I'm seeing lots of sad face. Nick Carter tweets pain. How many survivors are with us? Kalio tweets, you know, poor, easy, took out $100,000 personal loan and put in sold two weeks ago and is now not looking very hot. Yeah, lots of this is my honest take.

The Influence of Twitter and Market Reactions

Your guys is just probably hop off Twitter for a few days. It's just gonna scare you and make you want to sell, and then we'll probably just, like, bounce right back in a week and be like, back to, like, you know, 63,000 or something a week from now. And this was just a little bump in the road. But yeah, Twitter's doing a great job getting people to cheat their bags right now. That's definitely, like, literally every major influencer, Anselmousen, everyone I'm seeing is definitely not putting out opium. They are definitely putting out fear and doom. Doom post right now. The same people that were about a week ago saying, why do you think that is could have been to do with engagement, Charlie?

Market Sentiment and Patterns of Behavior

Oh, I mean, look, you know, I actually think a lot of people look the. The way these markets work. Like, I do think the exuberance, like bitcoin goes from 54,000 to 69,990. I mean, I think I was genuinely. I was genuinely very bullish. I'm still very bullish long term. I just, you know, wasn't expecting a drop like this just all of a sudden. So that definitely it causes a little bit of, I don't know, it's hard to work our way back up to 69,000. I think in these markets, people are always looking for what's the next thing. We've gotten Eth and btcetf, and we already have that behind us.

Analysis of Market Drivers and Speculation

Right. So hopefully there will continue to be an inflow to those. But that was really pulling the market along earlier this year. And then I really do believe, like, David did such a good job marketing the bitcoin conference that it actually pulled BTC up. As we approached that conference, everybody was looking forward to the speech. Trump ended up did, he did give that bitcoin reserve announcement. But then it kind of looks like potentially some people's theory is that on the poly market, like, Trump's odds of getting elected are not as high as they were two weeks ago. And that is, you know, not good for crypto because, or that's the market believes that's not good for crypto.

Art and Innovation in Collectibles

Did the upgradable, kind of artwork situation and can add to the ninjas. So I don't know. Like, what? Like, we actually haven't talked about that in a while. What's the current. What's your current thinking around that? I mean, I think this is like, something every project should do. I mean, there's no sort of downside to it, right? Like, the only downside is probably the complexity of implementing it. But I would actually hope that, like, like, what would be really cool about ordinals that you can't really do with, ethereum smart contracts. And I've been hoping that someone makes something like this for a long time, but sort of like a NPM for ordinals, like recursive build tooling or just sort of like a website that shows you, like, which libraries are used the most recursively and sort of showing the analytics on that and also, you know, making that, like, making that a criteria that people look at when they buy into a project. Like, I think that the projects that provide the most value to the. To the ecosystem in terms of technical innovation will be rewarded in the long term.

Value and Collectible Dynamics

But right now, it's not very transparent, like, which libraries that. That people are leveraging the most. And so, like, this, like, you know, unwrapping, sort of, like, brings you back to, like, the classic, you know, pack of cards, right? Like, whether it's like, magic, the gathering cards, or Pokemon cards, we know that, like, these unopened and sealed packs always sell for a lot more than, you know, the cards themselves. Like, and that one of the best strategies you can do is not open it, right? The same for, like, any collectible. Like, if you never open it, you know, it kind of sucks. You never get to use it or enjoy yourself. But that's, like, the best way to maintain the value for future collectors is those sealed collectibles. And we saw something similar with, like, the mutant ape yacht club, where they did, like, the serums. Like, the value of the serums, over time, became more valuable than the mutants themselves. The average mutant, at first, they were kind of at price parity, but then they start to become more valuable. So this mechanic, I think, is really cool and, like, sort of guaranteed, I guess, to keep the collection interesting.

Future Possibilities in Technology

And what I would love to see is, even for the stuff that we're doing pizza ninjas. We haven't had time to really make it totally modular, but I could imagine a future on ordinals where all of this functionality, you have an application that's a builder, even a user interface, and it's like, hey, one click you can have an unwrapping and wrapping feature. Sort of like the no ordinary kind to any ordinal, right? Like, that would be super cool. And I hope someone builds that pretty soon because all the data is on chain. We can see, like, which libraries are used in recursion the most. And it would be super easy to sort of rise to the top the most valuable libraries and components. And it would also incentivize people to improve upon what they built. So it can just be plug and play. Like, that would be the idea. The goal is that, hey, you want to use this holder permission to upgrading that pizza ninjas created. Okay, great. Just use recursion for this one inscription.

Enhancing User Experience

You want to use an unwrapping feature so that you don't have to have a reveal, but people can choose when to reveal the artwork. Just add this one line of code and then put the artwork here. This is the direction that we should be pushing the space to because it does have compounding returns compared to what you can do on Ethereum or other blockchains. Like, if you could just. You could literally have a very easy to use. What you see is what you get editor, no code editor, where people can put up their artwork and then they can, you know, click a few buttons for different modules. You know, even if you. If you have this, like, unwrapping feature for the reveal, right. All you need is basically the code, and then you need an artwork to cover it. And for this one, there's like two stages of unwrapping, right? So there's like a half unwrapped, and there's a fully unwrapped. So you would just need one, the artwork to cover it for the wrapping, and second, the artwork for, like, when it's half unwrapped.

Toward Better Solutions

And that would be very easy to put into, like a, you know, like a no code recursion plus ornal's collection builder. And I would love to see that kind of stuff. All right, well, guys, if you want to get funded by Trevor, you know what to do. Go build an MVP package manager and no code solution. I mean, I also have wanted to see this for a really long time, and I think it would be pretty sick. So let's. Let's see. Let's see if anybody can cook up some fun. Experiment with that. Chris. What's up, man? Yo, what's up guys? Happy, happy Monday. Bloody Monday. Yeah, I wanted to, I'm a big collector, been collecting for a while and even collecting kind of brought me into the space. Like VB was one of my first apps that I used for NFTs and cryptoise. Actually they're on flow still. They kind of had a similar model to where they would use like Star wars and Disney and like some other ip and it would be like wrapped and you could choose to unwrap it or you could sell it wrapped or not wrapped.

Experiencing the Collectible Market

It's in a box and it's a pretty cool experience because like it's kind of like unboxing, like an actual collectible like you would like in real life. But obviously if you unbox it like degrades and it's, you know, worthless. So it was a pretty cool model also for no ordinary kind. Actually haven't revealed mine yet. Actually didn't even know that I got it last week. I've just been so slammed I haven't like, I minted it, but I've been so slammed I haven't revealed it yet. I do have the actual condoms from the IRL event that they gave out of somewhere at my house. I don't know where it's at, but they actually gave like physical condoms for those that don't know at the events, which is pretty funny in the package, for the record, they're down in the sewage fitzy. What's up? Yeah, just to what Trevor was saying, because that, as you're explaining, I was like, okay, parts of these things I understand now, which I wouldn't have maybe like three or four months ago, but you spend enough time around Benny and stuff and you start to learn some dev stuff.

Modular Building and Application Development

So you talk about like modular building. So for example, like being able to build a smart contract that had like, you know, a chunk of code that did this and a chunk of code that did this. You don't need to be a dev to be able to do it. You just kind of plug and play together to achieve what you want to achieve. Was that kind of part of what you were saying there? Yeah, 100%. I mean when you build a JavaScript application, like 90% of the stuff, 90% of your time is not building anything. It's like reusing open source libraries and NPM is this really great JavaScript package manager where you can just type, you can just like go to the website being like, I need a twitter integration or an x integration, and then you'll find a library that thousands of people are using. Actually, millions of people are using, but thousands of people are downloading every day or every week. You just run a command and it plugs it into your app, and a lot of them have a couple other commands to set it up.

Platform Integration and Mechanisms

Then you have to customize and stuff like that. I think it could be even easier for ordinals. You could imagine any type of mechanic that you want to incorporate. And so many people have already created these cool, different mechanics that you could mix and match, and it's all on chain. And there could easily be a startup that just goes and, hey, hits up on chain, monkey hits up, you know, pizza ninjas. And they work with us to make it like a, you know, one click install to add, you know, any of this type of functionality. And I think the challenge is that, like, without a site like this, where, like, people actually get recognized and, you know, get recognition for it, get bragging rights, you know, get to make it easy for people to engage with their, with what they're building, it always kind of is like the, like, you do all the hard work to make something cool, but then, like, there's obviously extra steps to make it modular and make it so anyone can plug and play with it.

Ease of Use and Implementation

But if there was a builder tool that did make it easier for other people to do it, then, you know, that would be, would reduce the friction in making that possible. And you could see that, like, imagine going to a project, a new project launches and says, hey, it uses this. It uses P five G's from onchain monkey. It uses, you know, holder permission upgradeability from pizza ninjas. You know, like, this would be super cool and social and see how certain projects are supporting the ecosystem and also how collaborative and how, like, people can leverage different toolkits from other projects. And it would probably also add transparency as well because I knew, like, a lot of people might go and try to copy a mechanic but reinvent the wheel. But, you know, maybe they, there's some technical risk involved in that versus just having a plug and play system.

Challenges and the Future Landscape

One click. Okay, now you have, you know, this library and this mechanic added to your orno collection would be pretty cool. I think what you're describing, by the way, is what Benny's built with the track star. So the smart contract like functionality. So basically bitcoin smart contracts, but not smart contracts. So very careful with the language there. He's building something called the track store, which are essentially these apps that developers can build and sell them in the store, these exact things, these kind of like snippets of code is the way that he referred to it. But as you were describing it, I was like, huh? That's probably what you're describing, this ability to say, I want to have this outcome. I want to build this, I need this and this, and you go buy that from the developers who are selling it in the track store. So imagine the app store for bitcoin.

Building for Builders vs. Consumers

That is literally what Benny is building. You know, there is a bit of a gap, I would say, in just what builders are choosing to build in this ecosystem. So over on Ethereum Solana, I would say there's more of an emphasis on builders building for other builders. Here is mostly builders building for the consumer. And I think unfortunately what that's led to is there's a lot of teams who have built runes type consumer products and unfortunately they're all having to replicate like very similar architectures and build very similar things and write very similar code. And this is like dozens of teams have had to do this, including my own team, and it's not ideal. Over on other ecosystems, a lot of people when they need to build, they'll just go plug into infuria and have something up really fast. And we just don't have the tooling and infrastructure for builders. And this is what Trevor's calling out is a great point.

Pain Points in Development

If you want to launch an ordinals collection and you want to do some of this cool stuff yourself, seeing other collections do. I mean, look, it's a real pain in the ass to go figure out how to do all of this. There should be a website you go to that's like, okay, like if you're a coder, here's the really simple way to just pull in all these JavaScript packages that accomplish what you want, that are already on chain. Or even better would be the no code solution, which would be like the kind of holy grail for launching an ordinals collection that uses recursion and it just doesn't exist today. You have to hire a dev that knows about this stuff. There's a handful of these devs out there. There's really not that many of them, and they will help work with you to do this. And I think there is room for companies that are building for other companies in the ecosystem to make their lives easier.

Situational Awareness in the Ecosystem

And there's a lack of that today and a lack of that infrastructure. I think one good example of this would be, I am disappointed and we have regressed in the regard of collections, right? So knowing which inscriptions are part of a collection, we used to have this GitHub that was maintained by ordinals wallet and it was, a lot of people really liked it. And then now it's really just magic Eden is just, this is how the ecosystem's evolved. Magic Eden has the kind of centralized repository for which inscriptions are, in which collections and most people creating collections just send magic Eden now. And that's really the only source of truth for that. And unfortunately, magic heat in, you know, again, it's a free service. I'm not complaining at all. It's like very, it's cool that they're doing this, but, you know, they might not have the exact same ethos as the rest of the space where, you know, I think last week they removed an inscription from a collection because it was stolen.

Concerns Regarding Data Integrity

I mean, most people, I would say, understand why they did that, but at the same time, you now just have this incomplete, kind of mute, you know, mutable data set of collections and we don't have strong collection provenance because of that. And Casey created his solution and just not enough people are using parent child. A lot of collections will use parent child, but a lot of them do not still. And we're just kind of in this weird in between world and just magic Eden has the source of truth. And it's because we didn't successfully build that kind of in between collection provenance component for our ecosystem. That infrastructure and tooling doesn't exist. And we sort of are behind other ecosystems in that regard, unfortunately. So I would like to see these gaps be closed. I think it's very important. There definitely is room for builders to build for other builders is my main point.

The Call for Decentralized Indexing

It's why you need decentralized indexing. That's exactly why. And I'm probably like positive news guy here, but like, you're going to have centralized decentralized indexing by track by the end of the year. So the validator sales are happening right now. I mean, I don't think you need decentralized indexing to do this. Right. Like, there would be ways you could just code in when you launch a collection that you specify. It's just people have not wanted to use parent child for whatever reason, unfortunately. And that's basically the situation. Like, you don't have to have decentralized. I would argue the ordeals indexing was very successful, right. A lot of people running these nodes. I consider it very decentralized. I'm not super worried about the decentralized indexing.

Consensus and Collection Integrity

I am worried about just having consensus around which inscriptions are in a collection. And we don't. What is the concern today? Like, what is the worry? What. What happens if we don't? I think when you're storing value, like, I. It's going to be hard to convince me that I should put $10,000 into an inscription when magic Eden can just delete it from the collection at any time, basically. And that's. That's not a great situation on Ethereum. Like, you don't. You don't have that deleted from the collection. Say it again. They can't delete it from the collection. How would they delete anything from the collection? I mean, they do it. You have most builders in the space go to Magic Eden's API to pull their collection data, and you're a new builder building a new tool in the ecosystem.

API Dependence and Market Effect

You just go suck up all their collection data. If magic Eden removed quantum cat number 20 from the collection from their JSON file, is that now not a quantum cat? I mean, in a lot of people's eyes, yes, that would trade well below the value because you can't go to many sites and see that quantum cat or it wouldn't show up in your ex first, for example. I might try that. I might remove one of them and see what happens. That sounds incorrect. Do you think if you asked a random developer in the space right now and said, you can't use magic Eden's API? Go get me a JSON of all of the inscriptions in quantum cats. I don't think it's as easy as it would be on Eth.

The Challenge of Data Retrieval

Quantum cats specifically do use parent child, but still. Sure. I still think most people are going to just grab that from magic Eden for sure. That's just the easiest thing to do. And by the way, we open source the JSON file, you can get it without regicator if you want to. If. Yeah, sure. I know that a lot of people are using the magikin API, but if they go and do something like remove the three quantum cats from. From their JSON, then obviously people will stop using their API. You know, like, there's. It's only the source of truth. As long as they behave, you know, like it's. And also, I guess my point is they are doing it and people still use it as a source of truth because there's just not a good alternative.

Decentralization and Collection Data

Right. We had. Where did they do? And the GitHub repo is no longer maintained. Where did they do it? The GitHub repo? No, where did they remove, you know, parts of. So I think there was some issue with some bitcoin punks a long time ago, but I think more recently just an asset was stolen, and magic Eden, you can find it on the account. Like magic Eden tweeted, we've removed this because it was stolen. So I'm just not a fan of that. Personally, I don't think that's the ethos of the space. I get why they did it. Again, I'm not complaining. I understand their logic. But because you can remove it from your marketplace, but the issue is their marketplace is where builders pull the collection data from, and that is where the issue is, in my personal opinion.

Challenges to the Ecosystem

Yeah, I get that. I think that resolves itself because if they keep doing that, which, by the way, I think they're completely in the right to do so because their API is not supposed to be something that people use for this purpose. It just happened to. But if they continue to do that, then, you know, people will just stop using it because, you know, for example, Ord IO probably doesn't like, is probably doing like a little more involved parsing or whatever. But if, you know, if Ord IO was taking this data from magician and they started removing items from the marketplace for whatever reason, obviously, or IO would fix it. And then similarly for other, you know, block explorers, I don't know, we have quantum cats on a bunch of them.

Future Alternatives and Freedom to Operate

I know that at least some of the block explorers that we're on are not using the magician API. And even if they are now, then if this keeps going, then they'll do something else. Yeah, your collection is easy because it's parent child. We can instantly index it. We didn't need to ask you for JSON. We didn't need to call magic. But I guess my point is not every, like, the solution to this. Six months ago I would have said we're all just going to use parent child going forward, and then we have this problem solved. People are not like, a lot of collections are not using parent child. So it's in a, it's an adoption of parent child issue. And even if you don't use it in an immutable record of collections, and then, so I'll give you another example.

Historical Context and Current Solutions

Type of wizards don't use parent child because they came out before parent child existed. We did actually, for tap of wizards, we did have some tricks there to have on chain provenance. So like you can prove to yourself that this is the tap of wizard collection and there aren't any others if you want to. It's just not the standard way because the standard didn't exist. But even if no one implements that's fine. I am sure I have no concerns that from now until the end of time, people will know how to find the collection of Tupperwizards. And even if magic Eden doesn't, it doesn't actually, I don't think magic indexes dapper wizards right now.

Complexity in the Development Environment

And they. That's sort of my point. There's just a lot of these edge cases where on Ethereum you just don't have to deal with it because every ERC 721 smart contract self contains that information. And here it's like, okay, you're going to build some tool in the space. It's just not going to have to operate wizards because you didn't suck up that data from Magic Eden. There's just a bunch of little weird situations like that where I know it seems like I'm complaining, but when you talk to builders, this is a common issue where they're constantly having to like manually parse this manually message to get the JSON from this one because magic Eden excluded it, this sort of thing.

The Road Ahead

So, yeah, like just that. That's one more example. Taproot wizard is not on magic Eden today. So in many cases it won't show up on many sites that use magic Eden as their source of truth for the collection JSON. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like the cryptopunks using ERC 20 instead of ERC 721. That's a pint in the ass for developers. But you know, if they do it, they manage. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I hope they'll survive. Look, we will definitely survive. It's more a commentary on what we've been talking about for the past like 20 minutes, which is just, look, developer tooling people in this space are building for consumers.

Reflections on Development Trends

They're not necessarily building for the other devs in the space. So you have this cold start problem where I was pointing out that all of these people building for runes basically built 20 different systems that are probably all very similar for parsing and indexing runes. And it's an inefficient way to do this. What you ideally want is some third party comes in and says, here's all of the code to do your runes indexing and stuff, and then everybody can just use that and then quickly be off to the races building the cool stuff. Instead, everybody has to build the same layer of infrastructure very similar to everyone else because nobody stepped in and wanted to do that. Right. So it's just, it's in that vein that the developer experience here is still lacking in many regards.

API Challenges and Competition

You know, like, it's fine. I would say it's close to healthy, but it's definitely not indisplaceable. Like, if someone wanted to take them out, there's many of, like, competitive ways to. To try to go at them. And I don't think that the. Sure, it's annoying that you have to go grab the API from them, I get that. But, like, I don't think that's going to be, like, anywhere near the main challenge. Well, this is spurred on by more than just, okay, yes, you have to get API keys. That's not really the issue. This is spurred by the fact that last week they deleted inscriptions from a collection just because it was like a stolen inscription. Right.

Challenges in the Ecosystem

And my point simply is, on Ethereum, let's say you're making some defi thing like liquidity on Ethereum. It's a complete afterthought that you would have to, like, do some complex figuring out all of the collections to make sure it's real or not or something like this. And it's just. It's a pain in the ass. It's one of many pain in the asses of being a builder in this ecosystem that you do not have. And it's just harder to start your little MVP 24 hours hackathon experiment in this space than it is in Ethereum. That's. That is the main point that I'm trying to make. Like, I honestly, dude, it's awesome that magic Eden provides this. It's just ultimately it's. I don't think it's a good long term solution, but look, it is what it is. It is what it is and we'll work with it.

Investor Concerns and Market Behavior

I think, Leo, you had an initial feeling earlier you said like, why am I spending $10,000 on an NFT that, you know, could get deleted? I think generally just investors are going to buy the collections that the people, they really release the JSON or they use parent child. Like, I think the market does kind of figure it out. Like, a lot of the s tier collections are using it. So that's really the solution. And if you're going to launch and you're going to get listed automatically on every block explorer, I think devs will do that because, you know, all the explorers can read the parent child at least. At least we have that. But it's not even enough. The parent child is not a good enough standard for this.

Metadata and Development Challenges

Yeah. So, well, so then the next step is like, the metadata and, you know, a similar thing was happening on Solana. This company metaplex just came in and made an open standard. Like, we have metadata fields on inscriptions. The challenge just comes in. You know, it gets harder to do the mince and more expensive. Yeah, we just need to make sure airheads does parent child and then we'll be good. Pete, what are your thoughts on? Yeah, dude, we're all gonna fucking die in the fiery pit of hell, man. This is the thing we got going on here. So we got a bunch of big brains on the ordinal show again, dude, and y'all some smart motherfuckers. And I get it. I'm not a smart motherfucker.

Concerns Over Market Manipulation

But I'll tell you what, dude. If there's one person who deserves a taproot wizard for being smart, it's me. And you know, when I think about magic Eden rinsing all of us, dude, I would say, what are we gonna do? We constantly are getting Ritz so dude, you guys put your brains together and make the new ponzi and build it better. But do it quick cuz we're fucked. So we just need to. We just need to get it together, leonidas. We need it. We need the dog to go to the fucking moon like you told us it all would. We need the goddamn quantum cats to go to the fucking strat, dude. I need my puppet do my puppets to go to zero. They're not going to zero quick enough.

Future Market Predictions

I need them to get lower as my ombs and my quantum cats go higher. So what else do we got going on today, dude? We're fucked. We're fucked Leonidas. We're absolutely fucked. But you want to know what's interesting, dude? All these cocksucking banks. All. It's part of my language. All these fucking banks and blackrock, grayscale, all these mufflers. None of them are selling their bitcoins. Everything else is in the shitter. But they're all holding their bitcoins, dude. If that doesn't tell you to buy more, I don't know what the fuck does. That's all I got, Mandev.

Market Sentiments and Future Outlook

I don't. I don't know. I can't hang with these conversations. I just come up here to cause a little bit of hell and like dick ride ud for a taproot wizard. And like, you know, one thing. One thing that's been really interesting in the sell off is that I think most ornaments have outperformed Ethereum 24 hours. That's pretty funny, dude. I think. I think ordinals have. Have a lot of momentum. Sure, I'm bag biased, but like, I'm as. As someone who's not tech savvy, runes feel bad and not necessarily because of the bags, just because of the actual trading of them and utilizing.

Community and Development Challenges in the Ecosystem

Wait, didn't we say we're not fighting runes anymore? Dude, the ordinals feel good, man. I like the fucking ordinals, bro. I've always been a jpeg kind of guy. I'm bullish on the frogs. I'm bullish on the cats. I'm bullish on the pizza ninjas even though I don't have one because, trevor, I'm not in the cabal and I didn't get on the goddamn whitelist and I didn't buy one on secondary because I'm a broke lark, bitch. I like the puppets. Let's just send the ordinals, dude. Put runes in the shitter where they belong.

Developer Tools and Accessibility

Send ordinals. Sorry Leonidas, but you got to come out with a jpeg. I don't know what you want me to tell you. I mean, people can definitely buy their runestones if they would like to. It's not. Oh, yeah, fair. It's not a jpeg. Unfortunately, you can buy rune stones if you like to so desire. Anyways, that's that. I hope I didn't deflect and take away from the important combo at hand. You did not. And I appreciate you coming up. Yeah, man. Dude, we're so Leonidas. What do you think?

Future Predictions and Market Conditions

Dude, I need a ta. What are, where are we going, do you think November, December we go a little higher? Dude, I'm, this week I'm gonna pause for making predictions. When the market's in a free fall like this, usually you try not to make predictions. Well, I would say Hodl and things will stabilize. It's, I mean, it really is like, look, if Nasdaq just keeps going down, we're probably going to keep going down. And if Nasdaq stable, like, if Nvidia goes back up to like 120, we'll probably be at like $63,000 bitcoin or something.

Macro Influences on Bitcoin Prices

Like, it's a macro phenomenon. It really has nothing to do with us. So I'm not reading into it too much. I'm buying more bitcoin here. That's all I know. Bitcoin is the truth. Everything else, secondary. Amen. All right, well, thank you for coming up, Pete, Billy, what are your thoughts on $49,000 bitcoin? Yo, what's up, gm? Everyone? Black Monday saying some prayers for Japan. Jeroboam Powell, you know, he's got a tough.

Influence of Geopolitical Factors

Oh, man, imagine, like, not raising rates fast enough and then imagine making the same mistake not cutting quick enough and then just watching everything kind of, every bad scenario play out with like, recession, jobs, yada. But you know what? We're, we're still here and it's going to be all good. I just kind of want to circle back on just kind of this discussion about like indexing and everything. It's kind of difficult for kind of smaller teams. You know, we're talking s tier projects.

Indexing Solutions and Team Dynamics

Oh, there's no reason they shouldn't have parent child. Well, we do want to encourage people to explore and experiment and try different things. My current project, I'm asking people to inscribe on demand through ordinals bot, and it is kind of a disaster. You know, people inscribe it, they're like, I don't see it in the collection. Like, no, dude, I have to manually scrape and compile the JSON and everything every 24 to 48 hours. You know, you can't do parent child because that would just eliminate people being able to inscribe multiple at once.

Creation of Development Jobs

So it is a bit clunky in that regard and just kind of creates a lot of laborious, tedious, you know, kind of like Randy was saying, like, it's created full time jobs where maybe there shouldn't be full time jobs, you know? That being said, a lot of these collections, I feel like they're doing the math on their raise. And I actually don't like using the word raise as much like businessman. But if you're going to make millions of dollars from the mint, you could probably spend a lot more on the dev side of things.

Resource Allocation in Projects

Whereas smaller teams like indie artists such as myself, just don't really have that. Those kind of resources to just like throw money at the problem and just kind of figure out something. I just unwrapped one of my knocks and just really impressed with the website. The back end, you know, dude at Chisel is just incomplete wizard. Yeah, just super impressive. And I could already see that's like a multi six figure type of just website build alone. And I think that's really cool that projects can kind of create that experience for the user because that is one of the more interesting things I'm seeing on ornals right now.

Barriers for New Users in the Ecosystem

But yeah, as far as encouraging people to just kind of come in and try new things, I think a lot of people are still kind of hung up on. On recursion and how to call things and testing environments. And it is something with still kind of a high barrier of entry and, you know, I'll spend time like guiding people, but at the end of the day, if it's like super complex and like, you know, might have to get in touch with the inscribe Atlantis team and, you know, pay them 30% of your minute or whatever. So yeah, I guess all that to say, manually compiling these jsons without parent child.

Project Specific Constraints

Not every project can use parent child. We kind of have a clever way where we're using project id tags through ornals bot, so it's easy to at least find those inscriptions. But yeah, we definitely want to have robust tooling that allows the user or new creators to kind of have a, you know, few click solutions, kind of like manifold does for empowering artists on Ethereum. But yeah, that's just my take. And I sort of agree with Randy with just kind of like things are centralized.

Centralization vs Decentralization

I don't really mind it, you know, best in slot. They'll just grab whatever projects are on magic Eden. So I'm just kind of constantly with them. Like, hey, can you push this update here? Same thing, Leo. I think ord IO you guys are a little behind on pulling some of those projects, but yeah. And that's just. Yeah, I mean, look, dude, it's kind of like why I'm a little bit passionate about this. It's just not easy.

Challenges in Developer Processes

Like if we had a full time person and all they did was just like go constantly make sure collections and everything are good. I don't want like our engineers spending their time on just like constantly trying. Like I probably send a collection JSON over to Zach like a couple times a week, but it's not ideal that I'm spending my time on that and that Zach's doing that. Send it to me, dude. I'll take a look at it, man. I got you.

Complex Development Challenges

No problem. I mean, look, at the end of the day, all I'm saying is like, I know builders in this space who have built really complex, like they're pulling from like four different sources and have all this like automated shit and they're stuff is still fucked. So it's just not ideal. It's not ideal even magic Eden, right? They don't have a just get all collections in point. You kind of have to do this custom scraping thing of their homepage to see what's in the new collections carousel.

Comparative Ecosystem Analysis

My point is it's all kind of dumb and it's much nicer on Ethereum in the collection Providence regard. And I think we just have to call that out. How does Ethereum do it? So every ERC 721 smart contract, it just straight up has exactly which number nfts. Like there's an id and then a bunch of metadata for every NFT. And then you would use infura or any of these providers and it would just be like a very robust API provider that you're trusting.

Robust API Structures

But the difference is like infuria is not making some just, they're not like, oh, we're going to pull this one out because it was stolen. They're just telling you what's on the blockchain at the end of the day. And any provider could create some sort of API layer that talks to that smart contract to know what's in the collection, right? Like you can trust a quote unquote centralized party if all their job is to do is to just pull from the blockchain.

Issues with Current Market Solutions

The issue today is magic Eden's job is not to just pull from the blockchain. It's hard to do what magic Eden does. Magic Eden can't just write a little script that does this. Magic Eden has to have probably one or two full time employees that is betting that, like, this isn't a scammer reaching out to us with fake inscriptions. This is a real collection, like all of these things. Right. It's not easy to do that, you guys.

Developers and Market Knowledge

You know, Harry, I'm speaking to the choir here. I'm preaching to the choir. You know this, right? Who's. Yeah, I mean, one of the reasons I'm bullish on runes is because there's no provenance problem for developers. They can just get all the runes in every utxo the runes on and just build. Yep. Agree. The runes developer experience is better than ordinals.

Future of Development Integration

Yeah. And I think that the point, like when ordinals came out, it wasn't really built as an NFT like protocol. It was built for the ability to put stuff on chain. And kind of what we're looking for is a way to organize the stuff that you put on chain. So, like, you know, a collection is essentially just a folder of inscriptions. Right. So, I mean, I don't know, it sounds like there's some market opportunity here for someone to make an easy interface where I can just put in a list of inscription ids and, you know, call that a collection.

Creating User-Friendly Interfaces

So it described the product well, it's like I go to a website, I put in an inscription id or a list of inscription ids. My wallet becomes the collection creator. And then that is in, that information goes into an API that everybody can pull from. You know, that would definitely be like manifold esque. I for sure just like, it's kind of like the process is just automated. I mean, at the end of the day, like, this is a mechanism to get data on bitcoin.

Looking Ahead in the Ecosystem

And I think that's cool that's always there for you to kind of go back and rifle through. But, you know, it's just, it's so dense now. Like, in the early days it was cool because you could just like refresh ordinals.com and just kind of see, you know, what was getting printed to the chain of. And now there's no real mechanism to search through and browse and find. I'm always like, oh, it's going to be cool when people go and look back like, oh, what were people doing right when the protocol launched.

Future Development and Discovery

But there's not really a great way to just search the blockchain for art and I think there will be and it's going to be amazing because you can kind of just like do like really smart filtering and searching and I think that's going to be a really cool way to just kind of see like, what's on chain. Yeah, look, I'm all for it. I'm all for it. I want, like, I don't think, for example, many of Gamma's really kick ass awesome art doesn't really show up on any explorers as collections doesn't show up on magic Eden because it's just not easy for these systems to talk to each other and stuff and we need the information to be in some sort of meta protocol or on the blockchain where you can just easily write a script, go fetch everything and then you have what you want.

Decentralized Data Handling

And we just, you know, we need to be hopefully realizing that, like, we're just, you know, being honest with ourselves. We're not in a spot today where it's a great developer experience for people building with ordinals. Maybe just tell magic Eden to like stop editing stuff and open everything, you know, like, it's not anyone because they already have charity for the ecosystem. It's not our place. Like, they don't owe us anything as far as you know.

Openness in the Ecosystem

Yeah, but, like, they don't have to give us API keys to pull their collection data, but it's in their interest to make the ecosystem easier to use and better and more open because look, I agree. I think it would be obvious. Don't start just randomly deleting inscriptions. But they obviously have a different opinion and it, you know, who are we? It's a free service they're offering. Like, I'm like, completely okay with them running their private company however they like, deal.

Stolen Inscriptions and Market Integrity

And I, you know, it's not anyone's place really to tell them that they should or shouldn't delete a stolen inscription. I don't like it. That's why people go to upload their collections. So that's just is what it is at the moment. I agree. This is why. This is why we're here. It's why it's frustrating. Right. Snoop, what's up? What are your thoughts on this?

Market Dynamics and New Developments

Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, I'm a huge fan of parent child and talking of sort of upcoming new interesting things, there is, of course, octoglyphs, which I think is the first ten k parent child on rune scription. So a combination of both runes and ordinals effectively with their own rune support. This is something that Gmard's been doing some absolute magic to etch. 25 runes per block tied to a single parent.

Importance of Provenance in Collections

And I think that notion of provenance is important both for being data on chain, but also just for a user to be able to quickly see if this thing's part of a collection, whether or not it's been listed anywhere, you'll just be able to see that on any place anywhere. So, I mean, I'm hugely bullish on parent child, and I think it should become a staple. If it's out of the reach of many people. I'd say just.

Gathering Community Support

Just reach out to myself, to any individual. I mean, it's very helpful. I'm sure people will happy point you the right way, but I do think it's something we should encourage to adopt for any. I think it's too powerful of a tool to not use when it is available to you. Agreed? I agree. I would love to see parent child more adopted fitzy. And on the note of getting.

Issues with Online Collections

Getting stuff taken offline, actually, we had something bizarre happen with our little retardinal free mint the other day where we had some McDonald hats that were, I think, DMCA'd by McDonald's to magic Eden to hide them from being visible. Some little McDonald Hatsheen that made us chuckle. So, yeah, it's a thing on a platform. McDonald's DMCA collection. Yeah.

User Confusion and Platform Policies

So we had some of our holders reach out saying, I can see my shit in my wallet, but I can't see it on Magic Eden. What's. What's going on? And we couldn't figure it out. We thought maybe something was an index, something wasn't in the hash list. We couldn't get to the bottom of it until we reached out to Magic Eden and they came back confirming that in fact, they had to take it down because McDonald's had some sort of complaint.

Legal Considerations in Creative Licensing

And so. So, yeah, we're gonna have to do something clever, hot take. McDonald's doesn't know shit about fuck, but magic Eden legally can't allow that on their platform. Yes. And guys, this is exactly the point. It's the prime being the same thing. I like this. This is the issue. It's like, I like to think there's an email. No, I like to think that they need off of McDonald's asking magic Eden to take five retortinals off of the website.

Market Sentiments and Future Outlook

I think that's much more likely. Yeah. The good news about bitcoin going down is that means the bitcoin shroom price goes down. Maybe I have generational buying opportunity here. I'll keep checking. You told me to buy a bitcoin puppet at 6500. You said, should I buy a puppet? I'll always say buy a puppethe always buy a puppet.

Reflections on Bitcoin and Puppets

Yeah, yeah, buy a puppet. This is bad, dude. Puppet is bitcoin and bitcoin is puppet one in the same. Unless you can buy a shroom. I don't know where we go from here to hell, Leonidas. Fucking hell. Hopefully Wednesday, guys, here's the prediction. I said I was going to make predictions, but here's the prediction. Bitcoin is over $60,000.

End of Show Predictions

Trevor kicks off a wonderful 06:30 p.m. eastern time ordinal show on Wednesday. We all get in here, we're laughing, we're having good vibes, we're not complaining about all this stuff. And bitcoin's over $60,000 and we can all be happy again. So let's manifest it. And hopefully Japan is okay and hopefully macro is okay. And that's really all I have for the show today.

Acknowledgment of Current Market Sentiments

yeah, very downer show. But yeah, I appreciate everyone coming up and sharing their thoughts. I think this is a good topic. I mean, generally talking about, oh, will runes go up? Why aren't runes going up? Is, is has been killing me lately. So at least we can talk about something productive today. Also, hopefully we can figure out how runes can go up as well.

Future Topics and Community Engagement

That could be our Wednesday topic. Sorry, that was funny. Any final other than bitcoin price going down and the ordeals, collections having bad indexing, any other topics anybody wanted to discuss while they're up here? Look, guys, summer's almost over, you know. Enjoy, enjoy your last month and a half. Yesterday when I saw bitcoin price, all I could think about was Peter Schiff and I was like, oh my God, he's going to have a fucking field day on Monday.

Reflections on Economic Policies

I watched his show from yesterday. It was great. I love God. Oh, it's, it's hilarious. But yeah, I can already feel the emergency rate cut coming this week. Looks like Nasdaq just bounced. It's now up 5% on the day. Things are bouncing. Yeah, we'll see what happens. The cool thing is you can always bury yourself in creating cool shit, making art, collecting art.

End of Show Reminders

You know, theoretically a lot of things can decline in prices, but the value of just ownership I think is one of the coolest things about this technology. All right, we got a bunch of hands just shot up scotch. What's up? Welcome to the wernal show. Hey, legend, how are you? Just wanted to weigh in on a couple of matters, actually, the first of all being parent child.

Call for Expert Opinions

And I think we really need Danny Yang here to talk about parent child. Unfortunately, he's not on the stage anymore. But I think that some people probably don't believe that on Chain monkey were the first 10,000 collection that were inscribed on bitcoin. We're not starting this cover. There's no. Hear me out.

Prioritizing Development Goals

Hear me out, Leo. Hear me out. What I was going to say was Danny actually felt that it was important enough not to inscribe the 10,000 on chain monkeys as soon as he could have. And let's face it, the first parent was inscribed at, you know, 22 one nine. So he could have inscribed the full ten k collection extremely early, but he chose not to because he believed that parent-child and recursion were important enough to wait for.

Impact of Market Trends

So he actually waited another eight months or whatever it was, seven months or something like that, so that he could actually help to build out the protocol and inscribe them with parent-child. I think that is really telling. And also, as far as the market's concerned, like, I've been involved in the markets for quite some time, and a lot of people have to remember, the market makers love these situations.

Market Dynamics and Behavior

They love to take advantage of you and me. They watch the geopolitical movements, they watch what countries are doing, and they will actively sell, and they will wait for everybody, for fear to come into the market. They will sell and then they're buying back in the. At the perfect moment. They've probably already bought back in at. Now look at the rebound already.

Evaluating Market Signals

Let's wait and see what this daily candle does. Because if this daily candle ends up as a beautiful hammer that's coming down and wicking back up, that's a very good sign for bitcoin. So everybody freaks out. As you said, Leo, we could be back at 63k in no time. This candle, this daily candle could end up back up around the 58. I mean, who knows?

Individual Reflections and Closing Thoughts

But anyway, it's my first time up on the stage. I love what you do. I still hold my dog. I've got multiple packets of dog. Haven't sold a dog yet. And Trevor, I will be buying a big pizza ninja before long. I'm going to have to get in. I've got to be in the club. That's all. That's all from me.

Appreciation for Contributions

Leon. Awesome. Well, Scott, appreciate you coming up. Love the takes. And I agree. Danny was up here for the boring part of the conversation. We definitely should have flipped and had the parent-child combo first because I would have loved to have heard its stakes on it. He's obviously the face of parent child or something of this nature. So appreciate you coming up.

Final Comments and Engagement

Scotch. Dominic. What's up man? Hey, just want to say bitcoin puppet is the first ten and one k collection. Bitcoin waters collection. I'm actually going to the asian blockchain summit tomorrow in taipei. Despite the market being super down right now, my express portfolio is actually down 70%. We actually going to talk more ordinance at the summit.

Community Engagement at Events

So if you guys are in Taipei by any chance, feel free to hit me up. We can talk ordinars together. Let's go. Awesome. Awesome. Fitzy, what's up, dude? Cheers, mate. Yeah, final thought for me, we won't go back into the same conversation, but for anybody that's not understanding fully the conversation in terms of like, you know, the friction that Billy was talking about and Randy as well, and Leo and the difficulty for devs to do things and having certain people have to come there to keep track of what's happening on the blockchain.

Decentralized Indexing vs Centralized Challenges

Centralized indexing versus decentralized. If you are unsure about any of that, I've been down the rabbit hole for months now and dm me. Dm me or follow the track that's in my profile track. Bitcoin. It's a very important thing. It's a very important thing. My final point is. My initial point. You do not want the data that users and developers, builders, companies and investors are all using to be run filtered through centralized entities.

Data Integrity and Accessibility

That's not what you want. Obviously. Bitcoin is a decentralized data creator. And you need a decentralized data organizer, filing cabinet, whatever you want to call it. That makes it easier for people to access it and makes it accessible for everyone. That is utopian. That's my only point. Yeah, utopias in my pants. Haha.

Closing Comments

All right, I think that's probably a wrap. Trevor, do you have any final call outs or thoughts? No. Guys, hope you have a great week. Don't look at the bitcoin price. If you do look at the bitcoin price, make sure that you have the one year toggle on. That is absolutely key. As long as you have the one year toggle on the chart, you will feel great.

Encouragement for the Community

You'll have no problems in the world. And yeah, your week will just be so much better. So guys. Hope you have a great week. And, yeah, we'll see you on Wednesday night at 06:30 p.m. the usual time. And yeah, see you guys later. See you later, Trevor.