Space Summary
The Twitter Space The Constitution @ 14 || #RebirthofaNation hosted by Mizani254. In the Mizani254’s Constitution @ 14 space, the focus was on fostering balanced conversations where inclusivity, empathy, and understanding played pivotal roles. The dialogues highlighted the importance of historical context, respect for diverse opinions, and creating safe spaces for open dialogues. By acknowledging past injustices and embracing diversity, participants contributed to creating a meaningful and enriching discussion environment. Addressing societal imbalances and promoting constructive exchanges were central themes throughout the space, emphasizing the value of diverse perspectives. This space exemplified how lifestyle choices and communication styles impact the quality of dialogues, leading to a more inclusive and insightful discourse.
For more spaces, visit the Lifestyle page.
Questions
Q: How does balanced dialogue contribute to meaningful conversations?
A: Balance allows for a respectful exchange of ideas, fostering deeper and more constructive discussions.
Q: Why is inclusivity important in dialogue?
A: Inclusivity ensures a wide range of perspectives are considered, enriching the conversation and promoting understanding.
Q: How can historical context impact present-day discussions?
A: Understanding history provides insights into current societal issues and helps frame discussions in a meaningful way.
Q: Why is it essential to respect diverse opinions in dialogues?
A: Respecting diverse opinions creates a welcoming atmosphere where varying viewpoints are valued, leading to more comprehensive conversations.
Q: What role does empathy play in constructive exchanges?
A: Empathy fosters understanding and connection, facilitating more empathetic and constructive dialogues.
Q: How does active listening contribute to comprehending different viewpoints?
A: Active listening allows individuals to fully grasp and appreciate diverse perspectives, enhancing the dialogue experience.
Q: Why is creating safe spaces crucial for open conversations?
A: Safe spaces encourage honesty and vulnerability, enabling participants to engage openly and authentically in discussions.
Q: How does acknowledging past injustices contribute to reconciliation?
A: Acknowledging historical injustices is the first step towards reconciliation and healing, paving the way for meaningful progress.
Q: In what way does diversity enhance the quality of discussions?
A: Diversity brings a range of experiences and insights to conversations, elevating the discussion and promoting a more holistic understanding.
Q: What impact does addressing societal imbalances have on progress?
A: Addressing societal imbalances is essential for driving positive change and creating a more equitable and just society.
Highlights
Time: 14:05:22
Importance of Balanced Dialogue Exploring how balance in conversations leads to more meaningful exchanges.
Time: 14:20:13
Inclusivity in Discourse Promoting inclusivity to foster diverse perspectives in dialogue.
Time: 14:35:45
Impact of Historical Context Understanding the relevance of history in shaping present-day discussions.
Time: 14:50:18
Respecting Diverse Opinions Emphasizing the significance of respecting and valuing differing viewpoints.
Time: 15:05:29
Empathy in Conversations The role of empathy in creating constructive and empathetic exchanges.
Time: 15:20:11
Active Listening Practices How active listening enhances understanding of diverse perspectives.
Time: 15:35:02
Creating Safe Dialogue Spaces The importance of safe environments for open and honest conversations.
Time: 15:50:47
Acknowledging Past Injustices Highlighting the importance of recognizing historical injustices for reconciliation.
Time: 16:05:35
Value of Diversity in Discussions Exploring how diversity enriches the quality and depth of conversations.
Time: 16:20:19
Addressing Societal Imbalances The role of discussions in addressing and rectifying societal disparities.
Key Takeaways
- Balancing viewpoints fosters meaningful conversations.
- Inclusivity drives diverse perspectives in discussions.
- Understanding historical contexts enhances present-day dialogues.
- Respect for differing opinions cultivates a healthy discourse environment.
- Addressing societal imbalances is crucial for progress.
- Promoting empathy and understanding leads to constructive exchanges.
- Listening actively aids in comprehending varying viewpoints.
- Creating safe spaces encourages open and honest conversations.
- Acknowledging past injustices paves the way for reconciliation.
- Embracing diversity enriches the quality of discussions.
Behind the Mic
Introduction and Context of the Discussion
Good morning and welcome to the conversation on this 25 August 2024, two days as we plan to commemorate the August 2720, 2010, when Kenya received a new constitution. And today we are looking at the constitution at 14 years, the rebirth of a nation. We are hoping to have a very good conversation as welcome eloquent speakers, including my good co host, Obed Zoriku and Obeds. Good morning to you. I hope you’re doing well.
Reflections on the Constitution
I am well from awe, Nairobi and cold, but happy that we would like to have this conversation, especially on issues to do with the constitution. It’s interesting that the constitution is 14 years in a few days. And interestingly, people have, some of the parts of the constitution have been mutilated totally like chapter six that was discarded almost immediately. We promulgated it and then after that we’ve tried to amend it using the backdoor, try to do so many things to make changes on it. But this is part of the conversation we’re going to have. So I’m looking forward to hearing what people have to say about this.
Introduction to Participants
Ladies and gentlemen, we do have with us Neto Agostino Jasudan Kohli, the United Green Movement party Green Kenyan living in his profile, as he says, which is courage. I don’t know if it has anything to do with Mazingira, but we’ll be finding out in a few. We also have with us Bonimwangi. Boni Mwangi is an economist and a certified public accountant. I know it is quite early in the morning where he’s joining us from, but I do hope he’s ready for this conversation. Obed, I want to go back to you and just be sure you can hear me. Can anyone hear me?
Setting the Stage for Further Discussion
Thank you very much, I equally look forward to having you, but as we wish to have Bonnie join the call, maybe quick when you’re looking forward to in this specific morning. The subject of this particular conversation is a very interesting one. You know, we looking at the constitution at 14, the rebirth of a nation. So, you know, we can look at that in what I think is a three faceted approach. You know, rebirth from the past, which was the old constitution that we got then the present, the constitution, 2010 as it’s been, and the future, what it holds.
The Need for Inclusive and Effective Institutions
So that is the role that needs to be discussed today. It’s about aligning our expectations with what the constitution can deliver and whether the mechanisms in place are effective in ensuring that these aspirations become reality. We must ask ourselves whether all areas of governance are functioning as intended and how together we can bridge the gaps. As we engage in this discussion, let’s keep our focus on content, practicality, and how the frameworks we have can be utilized effectively. I look forward to hearing from all participants on their perspectives, insights, and contributions to this essential conversation.
Constitutional Commentaries
Proceed. Thank you. So I just wanted to make one final comment to me. You know, I don’t, I’m not saying he has claimed to be a constitutional lawyer, but the point of a constitution is what is to guarantee the rule of law, in my view, and safeguard the rights of citizens. And if that’s the case, we have to ask ourselves whether or not we actually seeing this happen in our country. I don’t think that most people can sit here and tell me that the system that we, you know, as we are seeing things unfold in our country, that we have a system where the rule of law prevails. I don’t feel that I look at our institutions like the parliament, for example. You’re hearing people getting bribed to vote certain ways in parliament. Again, we talk about, for example, the fact that parliament is supposed to review the government’s spending, right? It’s supposed to approve the budget. It’s opposed to, for example, nothing. It’s supposed to make sure that the government does not raise the debt. You know, you don’t raise the debt ceiling recklessly. Right. But none of that stuff is happening.
Issues with Government Functionality
So I don’t think that our system of government is working the way it’s supposed to be, or at least the way that we want it to be. And I go back to my point of having a consideration is one thing, but having the system function the way it’s supposed to be, that’s a totally different thing. It comes down to the people that are in those positions. The final thing I want to make is this our system. And I’m looking at this from an economic standpoint. Our system of government as designed is not sustainable because, you know, you can want a system, you can want representation, make sure that everybody in the country feels represented deep down to who they are. If you’re talking about tribe, we’re talking about sexual orientation, we are talking about, you know, whether someone is disabled or not, at the end of the day, you have to make it work. From an economic standpoint, we are spending so much money to make sure that this system continues. It is not sustainable. I want to make sure that every Kenyan understands this. I just told you that every year we are adding a trillion shillings in debt to our balance sheet to continue this system. Our system of government is eating up virtually all the money that we have right now.
Sustainability and Representation
So again, if you’re paying 60% of your. Of your. Of your interest, sorry, of your income interest, and then you have 40% left, and then we have 290 members of parliament. We have 47 senators, we have 47 governors, 47 women reps. Every one of these people have very high salaries, high, you know, allowances. We cannot sustain this system. It does not make any sense. It is so big. It is not reasonable to have this kind of many representatives representing us. It is not sustainable. So you need to understand that this is not sustainable. And that’s all I want to say. Thank you. Thank you, Bonnie. You’re looking at sustainability, and this is from the economic aspect of the conversation and the Constitution at large. And therefore, just a heads up, ladies and gentlemen, into the second hour, we’ll be looking at now the representation aspect of this Constitution.
Addressing Major Issues
We’ll be looking at what most of you love to talk about. That is the unending corruption. But let’s not forget this brutality and injustice that has been committed over the history of our country. So how far are we doing with that in the meantime? This is Mizani 244. We are discussing rebirth of a nation 14 years into the constitution. Do we feel that it has addressed the major issues? This document, which is a living document, had aspired to address with us. We have Neto Agostino, who is not only a co-leader of the United Green Movement party, which he refused to answer if he’s really the green environmentalist or is green the color, we’ll find out once we have the opportunity. And we also have Bonnie Mwangi, Boni Mwangi is an economist and a certified public accountant who has been, over the past few weeks and months, unleashing a number of research.
Public Funds and Accountability
But I would call them auditing and public auditing of our accounts and how your monies are being spent and to some extent, has caused a lot of concern among the populace. This conversation continues right here on Mizani 254. You can join us into the chat section. Request the mic and obes. Let’s now go to the plenary. I don’t know what you have on your end, if we have any. Before we start with Anthony, I’ll read a few comments. I think there’s a question that was given by Staka Baliwa Taifa. Why has a Cok seemed to breed corruption? Are not curtail it? So probably a question to be answered by the speakers. And then Stella says, as much as the Cok is not adhered to, I appreciate having it. It gives us a reference point. And that way we know that it’s the people we’ve elected or been electing that are failing us.
Reflections on the Constitution
Then I have John Ceremani, who says, my main gripe with the CoK 2010 as it currently is the lackluster expression of the constitutional principle of localism. Police should be taken out of the reach of the executive. Completely and absolutely localized. Only IPOa should be national. So he says he has a book that he’s writing and there’s a chapter twelve. Part of the Linda Katiba thing is on chapter twelve of his. Of his book. And he’s put a link there. So probably when you have time, check that. Anthony, I’m gonna allow you to speak and I give you three minutes to make a contribution. Then we have the villager 254, as we allow more to come to the speaker so that they can make their contribution. Anthony. Thank you, Nidrani. Thank you. Obvious. Thank you, Eli and everyone who’s tuned in.
Power and Constitutional Vigilance
Power is going to give in. So I really think that what we must do as a Kenyan people is eternal vigilance. And that will give us the realization and the expression of the Kenyan constitution. I thank you.
Evaluating the Constitution
Thank you very much NATO and quite a number of issues you raised and responded to. But the questions continue streaming in. And I want to go to a question here by Antony Omoro, who says rather a comment which says we cannot properly evaluate the Katiba 2010 until we first have a president who fully obeys it, then we can figure out what needs streamlining. It shouldn’t be much, says Antony. Betty and I would love to have had you coming on board, Betty. Betty Okero, who says, we have this amazing document and we have refused to make it work. We need to focus on the problem and it eats the people we put to speak on our behalf, to represent us, to protect us, to ensure we aren’t just surviving but living. So let us focus on that and start with ourselves. Interesting comments there, Betty.
Common Questions about Governance
So she questions. Can we start by asking why can we as a people get? Why can’t we as a people get this right? Why are we sabotaging our own survival ourselves? Why is it that even when we have sovereign power, we are not able to weaponize it to work for us? And that’s why everybody keeps saying there’s a problem with the constitution? Probably. I don’t know if that’s how you feel. Let us know what you think in the chat section. Retweet this space, if you may. We are almost coming to the end of the conversation and would love to have as much as possible coming from all of you. Obeds, I’ll give you the queue. And then we can invite more speakers from the plenary to make their comments.
Questioning Leadership Integrity
Obeds, please. I don’t really have much to say, but the question I’d like to pose to us is we expect and are asking people to implement the constitution when we know too well that these people are amongst the people who were anti the constitution. Remember, your current president was against the constitution 2010. He actually led the no campaign. So honestly, for him to honor and respect the constitution is probably a strange thing to tell him. But maybe he’s obligated by virtue of his responsibility and position. And schedule three is another interesting. The third schedule is interesting because he has to swear an oath. It’s a requirement. But does he really believe in this constitution? I do not think so.
The Role of the Political Class
I don’t know what Diamond, I think Damon was supposed to come next. Diamond, what do you think and how do we cure this problem? Obed and Miss Annie. Hi, how are you? I hope you can hear me. Yes, 100%. Okay, so first of all, I think we have one big problem is our political class. I think that the swamp is too dirty. And if you look at what they’re even currently doing is they are coming together against the people. Those whom you expect to be in their position or you expected to be doing a bit more in terms of oversight are actually sitting with the same people who they were blaming to be mismanaging the country.
Public Officials and Corruption
So our biggest problem lies with our political class. And you see, they’re in the political class because we’ve also donated power to them. So there are things they do within their power that we’ve given them, that they actually mess up our country. So, first of all, I think as citizens and having these active conversations, one of the biggest loopholes of our constitution today is the fact that we allow people or individuals who’ve been either mentioned in corruption cases implicated or even charged to still hold public office. And if you ask me, if you own a company today, if your finance manager, for example, has been implicated to have stolen money, would you continue having them in office? Or if you want to hire an individual to your company, assuming you own the company, would you hire anyone with questionable integrity?
Addressing Corruption Laws
So somebody who’s already been charged in a court of law or is implicated in a scandal. So I think the first loophole we need to close as a country and as a people is we need to fix that law that allows people who’ve been either mentioned, who’ve been proven to have stolen or done anything wrong, or who do not meet the integrity standard, and the same should even block them from actually vying. You go clean your name and then come back. The fact that we allow these people to keep coming back to power is they actually come back for more. And we lose so much money to corruption that we are actually unable to even offer basic services. We cannot offer health services. We cannot offer basic education services.
Impact on Basic Services
It becomes complex to hire teachers. This Cs will be saying that another MP will be saying something else. It becomes very complex to offer health services to even the most basic and rural places in this country. So our biggest problem lies with, one, the political class, two, our law around corruption. And I’m sure the constitution was clear. But what they’ve done is they went to court, they went to parliament, they changed one law after another, so that they completely removed the need for integrity to be a major milestone or to be a major thing when getting into public office. So I think, in fact, Mizani, I’ve seen you writing a lot of serious letters lately.
Need for Proactive Measures
I think the next letter we should be writing is we want to stop. Anyone who is implicated, even mentioned alone, should actually not hold public office. It is a conversation we should have. It is a conversation the citizens must call for. It is a conversation that we must really stand up for. And I’ll tell you a lot of examples. You’ve all followed what has happened with many projects that they have launched. Morara has done a good job. However, you realize that the people who are actually implicated to have either paid a project that never started. Some people have paid money for a project that should not have been paid.
Consequences of Past Corruption
Some people have taken money and stopped doing the projects. All these people are actually still holding public office. The same people that have been mentioned severally. Somebody was given a 1 billion tender through an email, a simple email. She doesn’t even know who wrote the email, I think got a 1 billion tender. The CS who was in charge at that point in time is actually hired to be an economic advisor. It’s painful. And the thing is, we need to stop it and they must stop somewhere. Some of these wars, we will fight them in the street, some of them will fight them in court, some of them will fight them with letters and every other thing.
Systemic Failings and Collective Action
I think that is my. That’s my view. We must stop people who have been mentioned, implicated or any other thing. If your name has been mentioned in a corruption case, until when you clear that name, you should not actually hold the public office. It’s bit logic. We get the frustration. But also the question you ask is we as a people, do we honestly want to hold politicians to that level of integrity when we probably don’t have it? You see, you see, the thing is, we actually have. Because let me tell you, if you work in the private sector, for example, or outside government, and these are the same Kenyans, a Kenyan who works in the private sector is a Kenyan like the one in the public sector.
Restoring Integrity in Governance
The thing is, when they get into the public sector, because of all these loopholes that have been set up either through systematically in the constitution or by Malaysia leaders because of those loopholes, these Kenyans have accepted to do that. So it is a system issue. It’s not about people. It’s not about people because we have private sector. You think if you work in a multinational today and you are implicated to have stolen 10 million, you will still be nothing. Also, remember, there is a very big thing called civic education. This thing, it is not a easy thing, but it must be done. It comes with a cost.
The Role of Civic Education
Many people, especially in the villages and these rurals, do not even understand these things we are speaking about. If this space was broadcasted today on a radio station, many people change the station. You know, it’s too much work, too much. It’s complex and they don’t want. They don’t want to have that conversation so obed, I would answer you that it is not about we, the people. It is not us is the political class that is messing up, because the same Kenyans we are talking today, some of them are working either for multinationals, for NgO’s, for every other thing where rules are actually followed to the latter.
Moving Forward as a Collective
So it’s not about us, it’s about the political class. Thank you so much, Damon. That’s quite clear. I see Betty’s hand is up. Betty, I’d like to hear what you have, and welcome to the conversation, because I had you talk somewhere else and I’d like to hear what are your sentiments and what exactly should we do, because in Kenya we probably talk too much and complain a lot but really do not go out of our way to ensure that we make changes that we’re looking at. I don’t know what’s your contribution, but I’d like you to address that as you give your contribution as well.
Importance of Addressing Gender in Discussions
Thank you so much and everybody who is on this platform today. Good morning and I hope you’re all well. I think I want to start with just trying to put opposition. There are people who depend on the system, given their poverty status, and they depend on them. And these are the people who will be the first one to attack you. But they’re always the first people who are there to defend the same system that we’re talking about. I always find it interesting how we have amazing trust in those people. We have entrusted with leadership, but failures repeatedly.
The Principles of the Constitution
Why that drives me to the principles that this constitution was written on, the principles and values. So everything we talk about matters public finance. If I look at public finance, article 201 talks about principles of public finance. And if you look at, if you read those principles, you find that this is where we get wrong. Because it talks about there shall be openness and accountability and public, including public participation in financial matters. Does the public feel that there is public participation? Do Kenyans feel openness and accountability? They dont. That means we are getting it wrong from the principles. They dont feel the accountability, they dont feel the openness. Therefore that public finance has failed entirely. If you fail on the principles, then you don’t know what you’re supposed to do. Okay? If you look at everything that the constitution talks about, we always fail on the principles.
Reflections on the Preamble
And therefore, one thing that drives me so much is if you look at our preamble, because I take the constitution as a supreme being that is supposed to guide our country, okay? Just like the way you would read the Bible, okay, if you look at our preamble, we the people of Kenya, and just one paragraph summarizes everything we are talking about. We, the people of Kenya, recognizing the aspirations of all Kenyans for a government based on essential values of human rights, equality, freedom, democracy, social justice and the rule of law. I feel for me this paragraph summarizes everything. The aspiration of all Kenyans for this type of governance. Do we have this type of governance? No. Okay. So therefore, this conditions that we’re subjecting our constitution to cannot enable it to grow to the level that we can feel. Yes, it is 14 years. It is 14 years. It has been 14 years incubation.
The Stunted Growth of the Constitution
We’ve not seen our constitution try to talk just like a baby when growing up. We’ve not seen our constitution try to walk. Okay? But we want to. We want to start talking about amending it, maybe. Yes. Those are discussions we can have, but we’ve not seen the constitution work. We are talking about the constitution. This child having carved legs. Yes, the child has curved legs. Because this child needs vitamin D. The child needs to be subjected to natural sunlight. Are we able to. We have not subjected this child to natural sunlight. And therefore, the conditions we are giving this child are not favorable for this child to grow. And therefore, as I conclude, what conditions can we give? No. What. What should we now do? What should we now do? Okay.
Awareness and Civic Engagement
The number one is what we are currently doing on this spaces. We need to make people self aware. We need to be aware of the problems that are happening to us. Okay? The previous generations were taught that it was very wrong to question authority. But in this generation, this new generation, we are seeing people coming outright lead to question authority. That is the thing. Okay? So these spaces, the forums that we having, that is the first step, making as many people as possible aware of what is going on, because we need to understand. People need to know that they are in slavery. That’s when you can save them. That is deriving the concept of Harriet Tubman. They need to be aware that they are slaves. Harriet Tubman said, if they only knew they were slaves, I would have saved a thousand more.
Using the Constitution to Fight for Rights
They need to know, first of all, what is happening to them. So these forums are very good for us, and we keep up with these forums. Number two, we are using the constitution to fight for it. And that’s why some of us have been invoking Article 37. And this is when we are invoking it. We are. We are invoking it directly targeting those in authority, those in public service, because they are the ones who are failing us. It is not the people who are failing. No, it is those who. Who are in public service who are failing us. And that’s why sometimes we say, occupy this place. Occupy this place. We are targeting them directly. And that is the second solution we need.
Empowering the Youth for Leadership
We need to use the constitution to fight for itself. So therefore, when we are invoking Article 37, we are doing it to fight for this constitution that has given us that article. It sounds very ambiguous, but I don’t know number three, and this is very important, number three, it is time that we as young people take up the leadership positions. You cannot change. You cannot change. I’ve come to learn in the political arena, you cannot make changes when you are outside. You can only make changes when you are inside. So when we talk about a legislation that has failed, we need young people in those legislative assemblies so that they can make the changes, they can push for the changes that we want. So young people out here need to take up leadership positions.
Continued Engagement and Persistence
I encourage all of you who are thinking about that, take up leadership positions. That is the next way we’ll use to change this. So as I conclude, I encourage all of us. I encourage all of us today. We should not tire. It is going to be a long journey for those who always thought that it was going to be a win by just going to the street and protesting. No, it was not going to be achieved like that. That was just one of the ways. And that is still a way we will always use to push for our agenda. It is a long, bumpy ride. We need to use all the avenues available for us. So dont tire. Let us encourage each other and let us continue hosting these forums to educate each other. Thank you very much.
Reflections on the Current State of Governance
Thank you. The real Joe, that’s real good talk. And you say that the constitution at 14 sounds like it’s really grown, but it’s a stunted child. And I think there’s partially a point to that. So probably even before we consider making amendments on it or changes on it, we need to have it really live to its expectations, because I don’t think we’ve implemented even a quarter of it. And that’s what the problem is. I think considering, you know, going down, closing the space, because we have about 25 minutes before we close Big B or big bay? I don’t know. Big B, if you can hear me while he’s trying to sort himself out. Marabou Stokes, am I coming through?
Constitution as the Grand Norm
Yes. So thank you for the time. Thank you for the opportunity. I think one thing we must realize is that the constitution is the grand norm. It’s not just a law, it is the grand norm. And it is what we, the people. Of Kenya, have decided to bind ourselves to. And we cannot compare the constitution to the penal code or the. Or the law of tort or the law of contract, whereby you can seek redress from other entities when you are grieved. The constitution is a living document that cannot be allowed to be for anything, to go repugnant to it. So I think first of all, when we look at the constitution at 14, we must realize that we have had so many gains, especially in this side.
Progress and Challenges with the Constitution
Of affirmative action, where we have had. Women are being put into position of leadership. And we can also look at, apart from the two third gender role, which we have not really actualized, we have also had some progress with the people with disability. We’ve dealt with human rights and so many other things. However, we must also realize that us, as the people, can no longer depend on the executive for them to adhere to the constitution. Because we look at the other day when Jimmy was arrested and Matakaro was raising something in court, and she said that the evidence that was adduced in court was unconstitutionally procured because they did not have a search warrant from court to get Jimmy arrested. However, when you think of it, why is it that the police felt so compelled to bring this evidence to court?
Corruption in Law Enforcement
It is because the police have always gotten away with unconstitutional occurrences. And they felt that, although they knew, because I’m sure the police know, that taking evidence to court that was abused, that was taken without constitutional means, is unconstitutional. But they decided that they’re going to take this evidence because they know that the system, as it is corrupt, is going to allow them to provide this evidence in court and have Jimmy incarcerated. So we can no longer live like we are in a school situation whereby we are following the school rules and the students are following the school rules. When we have the headmasters and the teachers and the prefects who are not adhering to the school rules, they go out whenever they want. And the school rules are just meant for the students.
Responsibility of the Citizenry
And that is the Kenya we have had since Uhuru, Kenyatta and now William Ruto. We are in a pogmire whereby the constitution is well drafted and it is in order because it is 14 years now. And the constitution, many people understand it. However, we have an executive that decides that it will not comply with the constitution because it is allowed to get away with it. So I think it is about the citizenry. And I like it when the real Joe really quoted the preamble saying, acknowledging, honoring, proud of, respectful commitment, recognizing, exercising, adapt and enact and give ourselves this constitution. And for the future generation, I think we should look at the preamble and realize that we have given ourselves this constitution.
Protecting the Constitution
And it is up to us to protect the constitution from people, especially in the executive, who can feel that they want to downthrough the constitution because it does not augur to their, or to their. To their whims. So thank you very much for the time. God bless. All right, thank you very much, Marabou. And we do appreciate you coming on board this morning. Quite a number of issues raised, including the constitution and its supremacy. Have we been able to see this constitution live to its expectation? The religion has argued we haven’t even had this child growing up. It’s a stuttered child and we need to feed it with all the vitamins that exist to make sure that it comes to life.
Constitutional Implementation and Governance
But of course, many of us, when we defend our rights, we go back to this constitution that tells you there is something in it. But questions are there being raised in terms of how we have looked at our constitution, including who are the people that have been given the charge to oversee the coming to life of this very important document in the lives of Kenyans and the prosperity of this nation. I want now to get closing remarks. We will start with you, Bettye, and then we’ll go to the real Joe, followed by NATO. Betty, I don’t want to ask you any specific question, but I’ll ask for your general comments. Proceed.
Finding Their Voice
Thank you. So mine is really to say that Kenyans are finding their voice. And you can see that not just on this space, but you’ve seen that on the streets, you’ve seen that on posters, seen that in when they go to court. You’ve seen that like, you know what somebody says when they are occupying spaces, that’s Kenyans finding their voices, but they’re also finding their power. We have started the steps. There is this. There is a demand that things must change, and we all recognize that. I think what we need to do is to be able to see how we can come up with the different strategies to make it work, because Kenyans are not homogeneous. So we must be able to come up with different layered strategies that speak to each other in a way that whatever action is taking place in one part of the country may be different, but the overall objective and the goal remains the same.
Addressing Political Resistance
The second thing is to recognize that because Kenyans are starting to find their voices, the political class us are also starting to get scared. And in response to that, they are now creating new laws that are trying to constrict our civic spaces or our civic engagement, or now trying to legalize every single thing that Kenyans are trying to do, to try and restrict them from making the demands that they rightfully should do. And I think it’s important for us to recognize that because we are starting to flip the switch. But we are also saying that we need so many more people to be able to do that in a way that the political class is not able to control or manage. And that’s why when we see that there is protest happening in only one area, it means we are also setting them to fail, so to speak.
Coordinated Actions
We need to be able to bring our voices together in a way that we defend and we protect those that are speaking. But we also start trying to create new spaces with new knowledge, with new understanding, with new demands and urgency from other people to be able to start aligning ourselves with what it is we are trying to demand now that Kenya must work for ourselves. But then I think Kenyans need to put in a lot of the work because it is now back. The burden and responsibility of changing and making this constitution work is going to be on us because the people that we thought would have shown us time and time again that they’re not interested in that. And we need that wake up call to recognize that perhaps our trust and faith in some of the people we are thinking are going to change is lost, but that we create alternative leadership and spaces within the community who can drive it.
Confronting Corruption
So what Bonnie is doing is amazing because he’s actually literally poking his finger in the eyes of the people who are stealing. But he’s also allowing Kenyans to be able to see just how this rot that we’re talking about has emerged so that we can see how we can be able to address it. When Morara is going from one county to another, highlighting this rot, that’s something that they’re also, you know, uncomfortable with. And we will start seeing the sort of response that will be given where we’ll start looking for some tax document that he didn’t pay anything small to try and shut us up. But when we are so many of us, so many moraras and so many of bonnies out on the streets, it will be difficult to shut people down because we are too many to control.
Hope and Action
But we will have to speak with one voice. We must make sure that our actions are coordinated organized. And like, you know, notice says, we have hope. Not everything has not worked. There are things that have worked. We have seen institutions also working in defense of Kenyans and in defense of the constitution must be able to cling on to that, knowing that there are people also out there who want to make sure that things change and that things work. And I just want to tell Kenyans that, you know, hope is the most important thing to be able to have. Knowing that we have the will to be able to do that is also extremely important. We must be able to support each other. We must be able to commend the actions that people are doing. We must amplify the small things that people are doing so that they can recognize that we acknowledge what it is that they’re doing and ask how it is that we can help them to continue in the campaigns that they have initiated.
Reflections on the Constitution
Thank you very much, Betty Okeron. Betty, we appreciate you making time to be here. I know you’ve been pushing a lot of conversations on just allowing Kenyans to see things from the civic space and championing for very many people who cannot voice their concerns. And to that, we give your flowers and thank you for making time to be here. Really. Joe, I will give you an opportunity to make your closing remarks. Maybe three minutes, if that works for you. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Eli. So basically, on my closing remarks, I want to talk about what a good country, what the Kenya we want should look for us should look like.
Vision for Leadership in Kenya
The Kenya we want is a country whereby we have leadership, not bosses. We want a Kenya where we see leadership and you see people take responsibility. For example, I saw during the vetting of the CSS, there’s one nominee, Oparanya, who yesterday was having a homecoming. He was mentioned on corruption. And initially this was done. When initially this was done, he said this was political witch hunt. And when he was mentioned, then we saw the political class trying to downplay this. But he was already mentioned in that. What leadership means for me is if he is a troop public servant and he feels it is political witch.
Demanding Accountability from Leadership
And yes, he has been nominated. He should have done this. He should have told the president, I’m happy you’ve nominated me, but I have a case to answer and I know I am innocent. Let me prove my innocence. Once I’m done with that case, I will come back to you and tell you, now you can give me the opportunity you wanted to give me. That is leadership. That’s the kind of leadership you want. Want a leadership that takes responsibility as a Kenya we want. So how are we going to achieve this leadership? How are we going to achieve this kind of leadership? The way we are going to achieve this leadership is we also need to show the political class that we can also be political.
Taking Up Leadership Positions
Let us now more than ever encourage as many people as possible, the new Turks, the young Turks that we are calling them, to come up and take leadership positions. I would like to see a Kenya where we have very young people at the national assemblies, as governors, as senators, in the leadership positions and trying to now change from inside the system itself. I would like this change to come inside the system. It will never come outside the system. And as I close, I know right now the political class has regrouped and we’ve seen that they have regrouped. They are assembling themselves in one side.
The Need for New Political Structures
We also need a type of leadership. I know this is a topic for another day, another discussion, but we need to start thinking about it. We need also to start thinking about political parties ourselves. I know this is another topic for another day, but we need to start thinking about all this. We will be divided along tribal lines, and when they try to divide us along tribal lines, let us show them that we are proud of our diversity in ethnic and our ethnical diversity, our cultural diversity and religious diversity. We are proud of it and therefore we cannot be divided along those lines.
Acknowledging Contributions and Next Steps
So thank you very much Eli, for hosting this space and for giving me a chance to speak in this space. Thank you very much. Thank you. The real Joe. We also appreciate you coming on and definitely sharing on the constitution and why we need to defend this document, even though there have been indications that some political voices are hinting at amending or completely, you know, coming up with a new constitution because the CoK 2010 looks like it is not serving the purpose that this country intended to have and 14 years later we have argued that it is still a good document, but the voices that say no, it is time to look into this document probably have a new constitution.
Constitutional Challenges and Implementation
I’m looking here at Ndolo who says, let us not allow the current government to review or amend the CoK 2010. Let the leaders, including the National assembly, the Senate, the governors, and that is the council of Governors for that matter, implement it in total. Asking these through NATO Agosino is here, Babuino Caleb and Okio Mutata who are joining the call I think from the peripheries. Thank you for that comment, Enzi. We also have Mister Kabali Wataifa who says the misconception Kenyans made is to assume a piece of paper of CoK will straighten immorality of Kenyans and that is tenderpreneurship among others.
Reflections on Governance and Morality
No, we needed first to sit down to build consensus among us Kenyans. How is our governance to be including democracy? That is punishment, morals, etc. That is from Stakabali Wataifa. I’ll sample one more here from let’s see who is saying what. Wanda, thank you for making time. Teacher Wanda who says corruption is a culture in the Kenya, it has nothing to do with politicians. It is a lifestyle. Politicians to non politicians actively amplify corruption so that even men and women in religion are good at this game.
The Role of Leadership in Change
New culture needed and also we have the united Green movement here backing up their co leader saying the constitution of Kenya 2010 sets out how we can achieve the Kenya we want. However, as a people, we must organize ourselves, elect good leaders who will bring the aspirations of Cok to life, among other contributions. And last but not least, Mister Kilimanjaroidaka says, well put. The public sector is where the thieves come to cloth their wolves personality in sheep skins. The corporate players who venture into politics is to sanitize their ills.
Corruption as a Systemic Challenge
And one wonders why is government corrupt? NATO leadership aspect being brought to, you know, to question we look at corruption, for that matter, we look at how a lot of persons within the political elite system have actually defiled this constitution and Kenyans to some extent stating that we really have a document that we can work with and we don’t need to change it for anybody or anyone. We just have to maintain the basic principles of what this constitution envisioned. Neto, your closing remarks.
Responses to Challenges
Thank you very much Eli and Obit and Mizani for hosting. I have a couple of responses to make before I make my closing remarks, but the first part is to thank you very much for allowing me to be guest speaker on this particular topic, which is very close to my heart, but also close to the principles that we believe in at the United government party. The United government party has one of its pillars as rule of law and constitutionalism. So this for us was really key to at least speak and listen to the aspirations of what other Kenyans are saying on the constitution.
The Role of Leadership in Governance
The number one comment which I want to respond to is that everything rises and falls on leadership. The moment the presidency of this country will set the tone and the tenure that Kenya is a constitutional republic, that Kenya is corruption free, that Kenya needs to go in a certain way, everyone else will follow suit. You’ve seen it before when Quebec tried it. People always talk about institutions like Singapore. If you see it’s the people like Le Kuan Yew who set the tone of that particular administration. And if you see, whereas wherever the countries have moved forward, leadership has a role in terms of what they play in making the institutions around the country inclusive, both economically and politically.
Fixing Governance Challenges
So everything rises and falls in leadership. If you want to fix the country, we must fix its leadership and more so its presidency, because that is where the tone and the tenure of where we want to live. Parts of the country starts. Thats the first thing. The second thing. I want to echo what Betty Riljo and a couple people have said in this particular call. As a people, weve seen where we need to take our country. We must organize. And organizing politically, lets not just organize in specific spaces.
Encouragement for Future Candidates
Lets look for men and women across the country who need to run for office. If Betty is a good candidate to run, if it’s real Joe, if it’s DJ Nick, if it’s obed, let’s put our heads, support, organize men and women who we think need to run the country as opposed to sitting and agonizing. The third thing, the constitution of Kenya 2010 was done at a time when Kenya was having a critical juncture. You remember the fight we had in the post election violence. Kenya needed to move forward and the constitution 2010 did a very good thing.
The Increment of Younger Generations
We have yet another critical juncture that has been created by the Gen Z movement. The Gen Zs are wanting Kenya to move to a space where corruption, rule of law, good governance are the norm. Let us not drop the ball at this particular point. Let’s keep pushing until we reach and realize that particular rebirth in this particular country. I would like to say that rule of law is achievable in Kenya. And politics of poverty, which is what most politicians have done for the longest, is because they know necessitous persons. If we are lacking, that is what dictatorships are made of.
Corruption and Institutional Challenges
They will want to make us lack so that at least they can dictate upon us. So we must always make sure that we keep going. The other thing, the Ethics and anti corruption commission, in my view, is the lowest problem we have right now. It’s one of the many challenges we have in this country. But my studies of governance show me whenever you see an ethics and anti corruption commission in any country, just know they are not fighting corruption. That country thrives then in corruption.
Calls for Action and Awareness
So part of the institutions you need to deal with when one of you become president is the ethics and anti corruption commission, because it’s not serving the purpose that it’s supposed to be doing. In fact, we really need to have ethics. A major part with anti corruption is not doing. What have we Kenyans done over the past few days is very good. The civic awareness and the promotion that we’ve been doing is awesome. We need to continue educating the masses in terms of what needs to be done, their rights, what the constitution says and what they need to do.
Judiciary’s Role in Governance
That leads me to the point which I said before, that, you know, the judiciary, therefore, is going to be the weakest link in terms of helping us realize our constitutional aspirations. Because you see, once the citizens, for example, know the demands that we need to make, we really need then the judiciary to make them justiciable. To the extent that the judiciary is going to slip on the job like they’re doing right now, they’re going to be one of the weakest links in terms of where we need to move forward. The last comment I’d like to make before I make my closing remarks is that young people need to go for elective positions.
Empowering Young Aspirants
Anyone who on this call, was political ambitions. The time is now. You need to start preparing for the election whenever it’s going to happen and make sure that we look in for men and women and men of character, who live the aspirations of chapter six of the Constitution of Kenya. My closing remarks, number one, I think one of the things we need to do as a people is to really make. To go again to this judiciary that I’ve mentioned for an interpretation of how the kenyan people can excise their sovereign power directly.
Demanding Clarity from Judiciary
I say that and I’d like to expound. Whereas article one in the constitution says that the people of Kenya can excise the sovereign power directly, part of the challenges is that the how to do is not been explicitly mentioned in the constitution. So I really think one of the constitutional. As we celebrate the constitution and its rebirth on Katibade, we must really then ask ourselves, we really need to get a Supreme Court. Help us with an advisory in terms of how can, for example, Kenyans who want to excise their powers directly with regard to the executive, with regard to the judiciary, and with regard to the legislature, how can they do that?
Proposing Amendments in Governance
That’s the first thing I’d like to comment on. The second thing I’d like to see is that Kenyans really need to test the population initiative amendment provisions under the constitution with regard to structuring the government in the way that we want it. The third thing, chapter six, corruption and rule of law. Kenyans must keep making demands of the leaders. We have to make sure that they aspire to the aspirations of chapter six. Because if we just did that, if you just made comment, the courts have let us down. The vetting provisions have let us down.
Advocating for Accountability
You know, the IBC, for example, has cleared people who are outrightly corrupt. The courts have refused to stop those who are outrightly corrupt from running for office. I think Kenyans need to keep pushing and making demands on the last part in terms of how do we do to achieve or celebrate properly the constitution at 14, parliament was declared unconstitutional by Chief Justice Maraga in sometime in 2020. I think as one of the things to give a spirit of rebirth to this constitution is I think all Kenyans need to demand that this particular parliament is dissolved because it’s unconstitutional.
Dissolving Unconstitutional Assemblies
It goes counter to article 261, which parliament should have been making laws to give effect to the two third gender rule to give effect to the article 100 with regard to minorities, persons with disability, youth and women. It has failed to do that. This parliament is unconstitutional. How do we best celebrate the 14th anniversary of this particular constitution? It is by joining the call to have this particular parliament dissolved. The Chief justice has taken it for too long and we really think that if anything else someone asks in this constitution, 2027 is too far, it’s too long.
Maintaining Fundamental Rights
We must make sure that we make demands that this particular constitution is. I mean, this particular parliament is dissolved because the unconstitutional and it should not even last until 2027. On the last comment, yes, it is true. We should not allow this particular parliament touch or amend any part of this constitution because if they do it, they’re going to be doing it in a way that is going to remove fundamental rights. Should we like. I think we should. And I believe that we have push for this parliament to be dissolved before 2027.
Future of the Parliament
The next parliament, which is going to be full of good men and women, I think must do a couple of things. Number one is we must make for the demands of the implication chapter six. We must always make sure that chapter six is our northern star where everyone else who comes into office, everything else is done in reliance with what chapter six is based on meritocracy, respect for office, dignity and everything else. The second thing we need to put into that constitution when we now, in the future is Kenya needs to choose whether we want to have a proportional representation system of government as opposed to first past the post.
Proportional Representation Discussion
That is conversion for another day. Mizani, if you want us to have it in terms of what would be the best structure of elections for Kenya, because right now the fastest post system is not working. You know, where a president is president with a difference of 20,000 votes. The person who comes number two then is in the streets hovering around looking for how to cohabit in a government. I think it’s not fair. We really need to see that the numbers count in an election. So a proportional representation system of government in a country that’s like Kenya then needs to be thought in. It needs to be thought through.
Deciding on Governance Structure
Lastly, Kenya needs to agree when we discuss this constitution. Again, whether Kenya wants to be a presidential system of structure or a parliamentary system, because right now the mongrel we have creates a lot of confusion. They do not even know if they’re in the opposition, whether they’re in government, whether where they are. They don’t know whether they’re in the room or outside. So we really need to have a structure that helps Kenyans understand that in a presidential system of government, yes, you have a president and you have. This is what he’s going to do in a parliamentary system.
Clarifying Governance Roles
You have a shadow cabinet and that is what it needs to do. So that one that is very clear will really be having a good constitutional document. I thank you so much for having us here. And we look forward to the 27 August, a good celebration when we wish our Katiba 14th anniversary. It has done very well in serving us so far, especially in the places of fundamental rights. But we have to keep pushing so that we realize the Kenya that we want.
Closing Remarks
Thank you very much and have yourselves a good Sunday and a good week. Thank you very much. Gustino, Neto and NATO here is from the. Is a co leader at the United Green Movement party and says everything about them is green. I believe he believes in the aspect of nature taking care of us and not the opposite. So if we are within those confines, we want to state that Kenya will be having a new constitutional celebration. But that is 14 years later.
Looking Ahead
Is there something to smile about? Definitely there have been a lot of winds and some stock to take into account, but that being said, Obeds, I’m thinking Neto just asked you for another space and, you know, on Mondays we do have our evening Kamkunjis that happened from 08:00 p.m. i’ll let you do the drum meeting and maybe convince him to come and give us the next step of part two of this conversation. Obed, the mic is yours.
Final Remarks
General remarks and final remarks. Thank you. Thank you so much, everyone who’s taken time to be here. It’s always a pleasure hosting you and getting to hear what we other people aspire for and, you know, get inspired by. Good to have very good speakers. Nice to see that. You know, it’s not easy to sit through a conversation sometimes when you’re not directly engaged, but it tells us that there’s something that we Kenyans want to achieve for ourselves.
Introspection and Evaluating Values
So many things have been said and when you look at the, you know, we’ve had a problem with the political class, but we also need to introspect, accept that probably we need to start somewhere as a people. We need to reevaluate our value system, including the people who are moralists in court or people who, you know, the religious people. So we would be having most likely a second part of this space. And we’d like to welcome everyone.
Encouraging Open Conversations
Also to remind you that at Mizani 254, every opinion, as long as it respects other people, it’s factual and objective. We do not have a problem having anybody here, whether you have a divergent opinion or not, we are agreeable and that’s why we call them conversations. We are looking forward to having a Kenya that has people who are informed. And other than just talking, we walk the talk. That’s why we endeavor in our small way that we make contributions.
Contributing to Change
We send memoranda. We have made some, you know, demands for some explanations for things that have to be done. For instance, we did have make a demand to KWS. They need to clarify whether what’s going on at Savo East National park in terms of are we, is there mining going on or what is exactly going on in the park. You also realize we’ve had something people have had every time there’s a conversation here, something about EACC, we did have a space on corruption and ESCC invited themselves.
Conversations on Corruption
And happily for us, there was a lot that was conversed, there was a report that we did. And I think we’re looking forward to having another conversation where probably the EACC has to put and, you know, give a perspective and clearly tell us where exactly they are, what are their challenges and what needs to be done. I also think we’ve had influence indirectly. The Nairobi county government recently had a draft tourism policy where we engaged them and we did a report.
A Step Towards Positive Change
And part of their decision is that they have what you call now, they’re using the digital space as part of the public participation. So I think it’s a good step in a good direction. Also part of the report that we did for ESCC, we are glad to mention that the president did pick something in terms of witness protection and a few other suggestions were put out there. So in our small way, we’re making contribution and we are happy because you participate and you’re helping us to do that and let us all do this together.
Recognizing Collective Knowledge
Mizani, if there’s anything I’ve forgotten, is just to say that we are preaching to the choir already and kenyans know what it is that we want. But sometimes it’s really how. It’s really how because we have tried, and I think the only thing I would encourage as is to stop focusing on individuals in terms of let Kenyans know that the enemy is one. The enemy is bad governance. The enemy is that we are not able to get value for what we get in terms of taxes.
Demands for Governance
Kenyans pay lots of taxes, but we are not getting value for that. If we can demand and without seizing. Dont stop, dont tell us about bedroom issues of other people. Talk about real issues. People can do what they want to do as long as our services are met. As a Kenyan, I want to go to hospital and get medication and get whatever I need to get. I want to go to a school and, you know, everything is functioning a functional system.
Conclusion on Collective Action
People can do whatever they want to do in them in terms of their morals. And that’s what we need to demand from ourselves. So thank you very much. And Eli, without belaboring the point and sometimes going over the top, I think that’s what I can say. And thank you, everyone for finding time to be here. Let’s do this. Let’s demand for more from our government, from those that we have put in leadership. If they’re not doing their job, let’s make it uncomfortable for them because that’s what we should do.
Reminders of Responsibility
We have employed them. They are our employees. It is us to tell them what to do. If they can’t do it the right way, then they have no use being in that office. Thank you very much, Ms. Anna. Thank you very much, Abed. And clearly, as you put, we try our best to put in the work and ensure we follow up on some of the issues you get to raise on these spaces. Exactly like you put it, the EACC has been on the receiving end, especially in matters to fight corruption, among others, accusations that are levied.
Moving Forward Without Delay
And we have taken an initiative actually to the commission to see if we can have a serious conversation on what is happening and what they are doing. And the Kenyans, what Kenyans need to know about EACC, specifically on the issues that you keep raising on integrity matters. And therefore, once this is settled, I don’t want to preempt or go way ahead of the conversation, but in fact, we are looking to have a session with the SEC and say, ask ESC so that you can bring all the questions and concerns you have about this commission and this country and the leaders that you perceive to be, quote unquote, either immoral or whatever it is.
Acknowledging Leadership Failures
And they are in office because they have stolen public funds and they have brought this country to shame. We had intended to end this talk at 45 past midday. However, we’ll be having another three minutes from Doctor Kurokot to give him an opportunity to make his opening and closing remarks. Having been part and parcel of the conversation around the constitution 2010 making process and its. But I will allow him, Doctor Ari, a few moments. I don’t want to take any more time.
Constitutional Discussions
I appreciate that I joined the conversation very late, but just to say that I think the idea of a new constitution right now, I think, for me, is not ripe. We need to. Of course, I’ve heard you guys talk about enforcement, implementation and actually, there are just two things I want to propose. And this is a conversation we will not complete today. I’m looking forward to the next conversation. Number one, we need to begin to really deconstruct chapter six on leadership and integrity.
Leadership and Integrity
Because who are the people really were entrusting our public spaces, our public office to lead us. When you have seen someone like speaker purporting to interrogate the CSS before they are appointed, and he doesn’t really interrogate them in the context of an advocate, to say, okay, give us evidence of how your wealth almost doubled just two years down the line. So. And I think that leads me to the next question. I mean, before I go to my next issue, we need to begin to talk about the soul of our nation.
Defining the National Psyche
Because I honestly feel there’s a problem with the kenyan national psyche. Why did we give ourselves a developmental, a fairly progressive constitution? And I’m not saying this because I was in the team that taught this country’s constitution, but our constitution is fairly progressive and many people are actually emulating and studying Kenya’s constitution. Why is it that we cannot put right people into positions of leadership? I think it’s a question about the soul of our nation that we need to interrogate.
Reframing the Conversation on Corruption
Number two, Mizani, I just want to propose, for purposes of tomorrow’s debate or another day, please, let’s stop talking about corruption. That word, corruption, is being corrupted so that we do not relate to it in the way in which we understand it from our mother tongue. Let’s call it theft of public resources. Because then we can catch thieves of public resources and prosecute them. That corruption work is an imperialist, globalist invention, so that we are not able to catch the real thieves of our public resources.
Consequences of Corruption
When you steal money from Kemsa, from. From the health sector, from the education, you have actually stolen. And in fact, you are a mass murderer, you know, because you are. You are affecting many lives. So those are my two cent in this conversation. Sorry, I came in too late, but I’m sure the conversation would not stop here. And then, Doctor Ari, the conversation does not end here.
Understanding Governance in Kenya
And you correctly put it, we are dealing with thieves and mass murderers and that’s what we need to discuss. Obeds and the team will definitely be drawing up the conversation for tomorrow. I am very positive at 08:00 p.m. will be live and we are having part two of this talk. What I can also assure all the listeners and the plenary is that every single statement that you put up here will be put into a report that we are coming up with. And hopefully these reports will help formulate national conversation on the Kenya we want and Kenya rebirth of a nation that we call the country Kenya.
Conclusion of the Session
Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, I want to take this opportunity once again to thank all our guest speakers. That is NATO Agostino. And in absentia we had Bonnie Mwangi. Bonnie has been working around the clock to really do what will call public auditing of the audits that have been brought to the public, published by the Auditor General and just questioning how we lose so much money in the presence of an existing parliament, existing institutions that are supposed to be the ones protecting the interests of Kenyans, especially the resources of the kenyan people.
Addressing National Concerns
And this to some extent creating an awareness of the bigger problems we are dealing with as a country. NATO, on the other hand, I keep referring to him as a co leader, but I look at him as a national leader who is passionate about the rule of law, among other issues, including the political landscape of this country and NATO. We thank you for taking your time to be here. We also had a last time here with Betty Okero.
Appreciation of Advocacy Efforts
Betty, again, we want to appreciate you for making time to be here. From the civil society space, of course, advocating for the rights of people within the grassroots levels and ensuring that she advocates for the voices of those who have been silenced and cannot speak on their behalf. She makes sure she brings these voices to the national platform. And for that, we do want to appreciate you real Joe, thank you so much for making time again, questioning just how we look at the constitution and the powers that come with it.
Looking Forward to Future Discussions
And of course, the missing gaps that we need to look into as we celebrate or commemorate 14 years after we gave ourselves this constitution. Ladies and gentlemen, the Mizani spaces continue this coming Monday. And Obeds, if that is affirmative, we are looking forward to have a very engaging session with all of you. Make time to be there at 08:00 p.m. east african time.
Addressing Socioeconomic Issues
My good friend Redemptor. We will be talking about the brutalities, that is both the socioeconomic aspect, the political, and, of course, people who have been killed by police officers in the name of maintaining peace. Why do we speak about peace and justice? Remains an elusive conversation in our national discourse. My name is Likuyani Ilai. On behalf of Mizani 254, we wish you a great weekend ahead.
