Space Summary
The Twitter Space Status & Culture: Desire for Social Rank hosted by timelesswallet. The space delved into the nuances of social status, cultural trends, and the evolution of digital communities within the context of multi-chain social wallets. Discussions highlighted the role of community trust, EVM compatibility, and the impact of cultural influences on user behaviors. Innovations in social wallet technology were emphasized for addressing diverse user needs and reflecting changing social norms. Overall, the space shed light on the intricate connections between social rank, community dynamics, and user preferences in the digital sphere.
For more spaces, visit the Wallet page.
Questions
Q: How does social rank contribute to user experience in social wallets?
A: Social rank enhances user engagement, identity formation, and community interactions within social wallets.
Q: What role does cultural influence play in the adoption of social wallet technologies?
A: Cultural trends shape user preferences, feature demands, and community behaviors in social wallet ecosystems.
Q: Why is community integration crucial for the success of multi-chain social wallets?
A: Community integration fosters trust, inclusivity, and network effects, driving adoption and sustainability of social wallet platforms.
Q: How do mini-apps on TON enhance the functionality of social wallets?
A: Mini-apps on TON provide users with additional services, utilities, and entertainment options, enriching the social wallet experience.
Q: What are some key features of leading dApps on EVM that attract users to social wallet ecosystems?
A: Leading dApps on EVM offer decentralized services, utility tokens, and interactive experiences that draw users to explore social wallet functionalities.
Q: How do social wallets reflect evolving social norms and preferences in the digital space?
A: Social wallets serve as digital mirrors reflecting changing social dynamics, identity expressions, and community values in online environments.
Q: What significance do status symbols hold in the context of social ranking tools?
A: Status symbols act as cultural signifiers, influencing user behavior, social interactions, and self-presentation within social ranking systems.
Q: How do innovations in social wallet technology cater to the needs of diverse digital communities?
A: Innovations in social wallet tech address user demands for personalization, security, interoperability, and enhanced user experiences across varied social contexts.
Q: Why is the trust factor crucial in the adoption of social wallet platforms?
A: Trust is a fundamental element that underpins user engagement, community building, and user retention in social wallet environments.
Q: How do user preferences for social ranking tools reflect the evolution of digital social hierarchies?
A: User preferences for social rank features mirror shifting digital norms, values, and aspirations, showcasing evolving patterns in online social structures.
Highlights
Time: 00:15:42
The Role of Social Norms in User Engagement Discussing how cultural norms influence user behaviors and social interactions in digital spaces.
Time: 00:27:18
Innovative Features of Multi-Chain Social Wallets Exploring the unique functionalities and integrations of multi-chain social wallets.
Time: 00:36:55
Community Trust and Inclusivity in Social Wallet Adoption Emphasizing the importance of community trust and inclusivity for the success of social wallet platforms.
Time: 00:45:03
EVM-Compatible dApps and User Experience Analyzing the impact of EVM-compatible dApps on enhancing user engagement within social wallet environments.
Time: 00:55:29
Cultural Influences on Digital Identity Exploring how cultural markers shape digital identities and social status within online communities.
Time: 01:05:17
User Preferences and Status Symbols in Social Ranking Systems Examining the relationship between user preferences, status symbols, and social ranking tools.
Time: 01:15:40
Enhanced User Experiences Through Social Wallet Innovations Highlighting how innovations in social wallet technology elevate user experiences and community interactions.
Time: 01:25:03
Mini-Apps on TON: Expansion of Social Wallet Functionality Exploring the versatility and added functionalities provided by mini-apps on TON within social wallet ecosystems.
Time: 01:35:21
Trust Dynamics and User Adoption in Social Wallet Platforms Understanding the critical role of trust dynamics in driving user adoption and engagement in social wallet platforms.
Time: 01:45:50
Community Integration and Network Effects in Social Wallets Examining how community integration generates network effects, fostering growth and sustainability in social wallet communities.
Key Takeaways
- The importance of social rank in online communities and social networks.
- Native Telegram integration in a multi-chain social wallet enhances user experience.
- Mini-apps on TON and leading dApps on EVM offer diverse functionalities for users.
- Cultural trends influence social dynamics in the digital space.
- Community trust and engagement are key factors in social wallet adoption.
- EVM compatibility expands the reach of decentralized applications for users.
- Social wallet features play a role in shaping online behaviors and interactions.
- Innovations in social wallet technology cater to the evolving needs of digital communities.
- Status symbols and cultural markers impact identity construction in online environments.
- User preferences for social ranking tools reflect evolving social norms in digital realms.
Behind the Mic
Introduction and Greetings
Subscribe our channel. Gm. Gm. Gm. The animals in the farm are awake. Businesses are done. Gm. Everyone. Gmz. Gm. Josh, welcome. Gm. Gm. All right, Josh, we missed you last week. I heard you were working extra hard in the farm and you had a little minor mishap. What happened?
Morning Activities
Yes, I heard the cocks crow. I heard the cows move. I heard Yozi finish his morning dumb. And I had to come in today after a really terrible injury to my ankle last week, which I've been limping around and somehow rather made it to see K Trinada this weekend, which was fucking amazing. Great to be back. Great, great to be back. Thank you so much for having me again. Yozi and Sadaa. It's always great to be back. I love to have you, as always. It's like a triple shot about espresso.
Missing Josh
Whenever we talk to you triple shy, I get you jittery and on the verge of depression. Greatness. But no, we miss you, obviously. Hopefully you're fully recovered. World Series, that. It was a pretty epic fight you had on Cambridge campus. Yes. You dropped, kicked someone. Is that what happened to your angle? What's the official story there?
The Epic Battle
Yeah, so the official story was that both Cambridge and Oxford actually sent one representative each to a final duo to settle the rivalry once and for all, like, to settle our almost 800 year old rivalry. And so they sent me and they also sent this other asian dude from Oxford and we basically battled it out for like 30 minutes. And I did win because, I mean, fuck Oxford, right? But I did come up with a bit of a scrape on my ankle.
Future Aspirations
You know what? Let's keep. Let's print that, you know, and then, you know, for all future prosperity, you know, so, you know, and in 30 years when you're running for the prime minister of become the next prime minister of Singapore, you can tell that story. Don't mess it with Josh. All right, Sirdar, do you want to do a brief intro and then we can get right into it for this weekend? I. Yeah. Hi, everyone. Welcome. This is Serdar speaking.
Introduction of Team Members
You're sufficient dj and head of marketing at timeless. All right, let's go, let's go. Cerdar is the guy who makes everything raw on time. I'm Z. I'm the co founder and CEO of Timeless and, you know, trying to wash away all my past sense of, you know, working at big tech. So, Josh, you're up next. I'm Joshua. I am a young lad who just won the Oxford-Cambridge battle that's going to be part of my LinkedIn profile now, because I'm hoping to get a lot of clout from that.
Discussion on Social Capital
But, yes, joined by Command Z and Sadar, who are amazing mentors to me, and here to have a conversation with them about social capital today. Zhennenh. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Every day, you know, every moment, you know, we're thinking about social capital, but this week, we're gonna. We're actually. We're gonna go into your home turf, especially about, like, just kind of really thinking about status, right? Because I think the concept of social capital is.
Understanding Social Capital
I think it's fairly well understood, right? I mean, all of us have some unit of it, right? Some of our born with, you know, let's say you're born into a certain type of family. You may have a certain level of social capital. They're built into your kind of your. Almost like your. Your family lineage and some people, you know, but for the most part, you work hard through your life being a good person. Work hard, work smart. You know, you kind of just earn and accrue a certain level of social capital, and a gold there is basically that's a fuel for, you know, kind of earning the status among your peers, right.
Personal Reflections and Experiences
And also society at large. And I think this is something that. Josh, I kind of want to pick your brain a little bit, right? because you actually, at a tender age of, in your early twenties, have some, you know, pretty notable, you know, status among your peers. You serve in the military, right? You bet. A legend has it you've been kicking all. Kicking some serious ass on the street. That's why you broke your angle, right? That's the word on the street.
Cultural Reflections
Hey, that's the only. That's the only. That's the only record that for sure. And then I think that what's really important is really kind of just asking, you know, like. And I'll kind of probe this way, right. Especially, you know, among the younger generation. Like, there's this kind of a terminology that basically, you know, like, how do you actually earn the kind of the. Be kind of respectable in your own culture, right? Build your own personal brand, right? I think that's becoming more and more important.
Historical Context of 'Snob'
Right. And I'll kind of start with Zal because, you know, in our show, note actually looked it up. There's a word called snob. Snob. And I didn't realize it has a direct connection, dude. To Cambridge. I'm not sure. Do you want to give a readout, you know, a latin word saying, okay, I'll just cover a little history wrestling for people who are listening, and as we go deeper into the conversation, we'll become more degenerate. But the word snob.
The Origin of 'Snob'
Snob, which is a kind of a western phrase, is a short for a latin phrase sign nobelite, which means without nobility. Okay. And. And I'll give a little history. It started in the 1920s, 1820s. So it has a way long history of it. It started in the colleges like Oxford and Cambridge, where when new students, when they matriculate, when they go to the first year, when they go to the school, they actually would sign behind their name as sign nobility.
The Meaning Behind 'Snob'
That means without nobility. That's how they differentiate themselves, right, versus the, you know, the kind of the monarchs or the noble houses. And then, you know, it got shorthanded into as NLP. That is so interesting. That is so interesting because. So how the matriculation in Cambridge works, or in Oxford works as well, is the first day that all the new undergraduates or masters or PhD students arrive.
Matriculation Ceremony
There is each college. So in Cambridge, there's 31 colleges. Each of the colleges hold their own matriculation ceremony. So matriculation is the process, of course, where you're registered into the system, right. And everyone holds a pen and a book. You're presented with this giant book owned by the college, and you write your name in there on the date you were matriculated, and you sign off. And I'm assuming in the past, those guys were made to write snot behind them.
Reflections on Matriculation
Yeah. That's kind of terrible, man. That's kind of terrible. But that's the ironic part. The original. The original kind of. The shorthand was actually. It's actually a sign of kind of almost like giving the middle finger to the nobility. Right. Meaning like, hey, we are. We work hard to get. So we're not. We don't have a rich. I mean, we don't have that.
Counter Cultural Meaning
That background or the nepotism to get us to where we are, but we still did it anyway. That's exactly. And I think this is kind of where I'm trying to go a little bit deeper and pick your brain a little bit. Right. The original concept is actually being counter culture or, you know, basically say we work hard. We're the pro. We're the kind of pro tailor class, right? We work hard to earn our status.
Change in Meaning of 'Snob'
And then obviously, the ironically, or maybe not ironically, the word snob actually flips its head. It's actually the inversion of this word, right. When people call you're a snob. That's actually no longer preserving the original meaning. Right. So let me ask you this, Josh, right? And I think for people who are listening, right. I think, you know, this is a very, I enjoy our weekly, you know, kind of conversation because I think you give us a unique perspective, especially for the younger generation, but also someone who's actually really on the up and up.
Josh's Personal Experience
Right, in terms of upward mobility. Right. I mean, you do well in school, right? You know, you know how to pick a fight on the street. Yeah. And then on top of that, right. I think, you know, being at, you know, one, probably the top ten universities, not just in the UK, but also around the world. Right. Can you just kind of walk us through. Right, like, what was, like the first, you know, the moment you got notified that, hey, you got accepted to Cambridge, and then what was the first, you know, month, six months, a year, like, you know, how the status and culture play into your own experience.
Acceptance into Cambridge
Just what I see what you're trying to pick from my brain, man. And, yeah, this is a yemenite. This is definitely, like, it was still so vivid in my brain to this day because, so the day, I remember it was a Tuesday, right? And it was in January. I was on a Tuesday. And I remember it was a Tuesday because at that point, I was leading a platoon in the army.
Leading a Platoon
So I was a lieutenant in a tank regiment in Singapore, and I had taken the day off because I knew that very night I would be getting my results back. And so I took a long ride home from camp days, got back home, and I knew the results were going to come up from like, 02:00 a.m. singapore time to like, 06:00 a.m. in the morning. Right. So there's a four hour window.
The Waiting Game
I was going to get it. And I had actually submitted my application just two months before, and I'd written it in one week because that was all the time the army was willing to give me after the commission to take a break to write my own applications. And I was, like, dead certain I wouldn't get it, right. I'd gone through the interview, swear to God, I was, like, washing my apple Watch while I was doing the interview.
Nerves and Anticipation
And my heart rate was at, like, 140 because I was just so nervous, you know? And when I, when the results were going to come out, I actually took a TikTok video of it and recorded the whole experience and reaction from my mom and my sis who came into my room. And my mom and my sis were just so happy to see, like, you know, that I gotten in and, I mean, not to be too deep about this, but it was a really important moment for us because my dad had actually just passed away about three months before that, you know, and.
Significance of Acceptance
And, I mean, my mom was just, like, so happy to see that things had that, you know, that there was something good that came out of everything that seemed a bit uncertain at that point in time. And, yeah, I mean, when you're talking about, like, social capital and status, right? Like, what exactly is social capital? I think the way I see it is that it's an expertise and trust that people have in a person based off of the sort of, like, relationships and network that they've created.
Defining Social Capital
Right? You've built a credibility, you've built a reputation, you've built an influence. You've built some sort of grounding to you as an individual that makes you stand up to other people. And this could come in the form of an academic achievement. Like, you know, I mean, like, if I'm being very honest, getting in Cambridge was a door opener. But I feel like going into the university itself is where the true social capital unlock really was.
Building Connections
It was all these micro connections that I was getting myself into. Like, even how we started speaking on spaces with Z and with Cedar, you know, being in ECC Brussels, it's through all these relationships that have been built over prolonged period of time that really accrue social capital. Love this story. And I think this is kind of why I enjoy the weekly discussion, because at timeless, we obviously internally our internal team meetings.
Internal Discussions on Social Capital
If I'm talking to my co founders in SRDAR, usually it's pretty contentious. And SirdAr was, without giving too much, airing out too many internal laundries, it's pretty heated debates in terms of what is social capital. How do we actually take a very philosophical, abstract concept, right? And how do you write that into, you know, 20, 40,000 lines of code or how to translate that into pixel and assert, obviously he needs to basically, hey, kind of repackage some of these ideas and these software applications into something that is actually presentable to the larger world, right?
Making Impressions
Because in reality, for the most part, and I think the point I'm trying to make is that in today's society, you get less than, you know, if you're lucky, you get 60 seconds to make an impression, right? If you're not lucky, you have less than 10, 15 seconds. And I think this is where status comes in, right? Historically, you know, you're. If you come from a noble family, right? You get a title, right? You're, you know, sir, you know, Lord Paul McCartney.
Cultural Context
Lord. Right, exactly. Baron. Baroness. We had fucking names coming up and every American's trying to marry and steal those names. Yeah, see, there you go. There you go. But in the past, I will say, make a strong argument since they're kind of the age of enlightenment, the Renaissance. We have different ways to actually kind of stratify different status and different culture.
Stratifying Status
And a lot of it has to do with your education. So obviously, Cambridge and Oxford and the UK and then in the US, you know, even as, like most Americans, we like to think we're fairly driven by kind of a mirror merits. But in reality, it's like, you know, there's. There is still that kind of idea, right. And I just, again, I'll reciprocate, you know, kind of our. My own observation, right, which is, you know, back in 2005 when I was interviewing at Google.
The Google Experience
You know, like you would think, hey, Google, and especially in our early days, it's very. There's no status. Right. It's basically on your merit. But I can tell you, I kid you not. At the time when I joined, I think we had less than 5000 employees. I would say probably 60% of it were. Most of them were Ivy League educated. Right. It was mostly staffer.
Conversations around Educational Status
That's exactly it. Right. And, you know, and then it was basically, you know, by proxy, you know, Carnegie Mellon. Right. Harbor. Right. MIT. So it wasn't like, you know, that's not to say, oh, like, you know, these are bad schools. I mean, there's. Those are earned. Right? But the reality is this, right. And this the point. And I think this is really kind of one of my first, you know, kind of observation, which is status gets you into the door. Right? It really does open the door for you, but you still have to kind of work to continue to earn that credit.
The Remarkable Career of Jeff Dean
And then, you know, probably one of the most famous, most well respected software engineer at Google for the past 15 years, this guy by the name of Jeff Dean. And for people who are listening, you just google him, right? Jeff Dean. Jeff Dean. He is probably the. He is the Michael Jordan of software engineering. I kid you not. 2006. 2006. I was looking at our internal code base at Google. He single handedly was accounting for roughly around 30% of their software. Wow. Right? So. And crazy part is, right, he didn't go to any of the Ivy League school. Right. And he's kind of just. But yeah, he was able to kind of prove his worth, right?
The Influence of Jeff Dean
And after almost 20 years, he's. He's a legend. I mean, literally, within the company, there are hundreds of engineers written software applications to generate mean based on Jeff Dean. Right? And so he's. And then the New York magazine on New York, right? They all. He's like a legend in Google. Yeah. I see this article by the New Yorker in 2018 going, the friendship that made Google huge at Google, Jeff is far better known. And they compared him to Chuck Norris, bro. Wow. He's a legend there. Literally. He's a legend. Literally. Like, their memes are every day within a company. You know, the engineers will write memes about him.
The Cultural Impact of Jeff Dean
You know, like, for example, when Jeff Dean wakes up in the eye in the morning and he looks himself in the mirror actually says LGTM. LGTM. For people who are listening, LGTM is actually a software approval at Google. Or a lot of. Actually, it's not just Google now, right? Apple and most companies, when you do a code review and your managers give you approvals, hey, the software code looks good. You know, passing unit test, you just. You don't say, okay, you don't say good. You said, LGTM, looks good to me. Right, right. And then the joke is that, you know, that whenever, you know, even a mirror, the reflection of reality, when they see him, they give him LGTM.
Reflections on Jordan Peterson
So that's the legend. So. But the poem is like, you know, he come from a relatively humble educational background, but he works hard, and he's obviously smart, and he earned his way up. Right? Now he's a legend. Literally every single software engineer knows this guy by heart. Right? So that's kind of one example, right. Another thing, I kind of want to pick your brain a little bit, right. And I'll probe this way, right? Do you know this guy named Jordan Peterson? I do know. I do know Jordan Peterson. He came to Cambridge, like, two years ago for just a really long debate on masculinity and the role of Mendez.
Jordan Peterson and the Public Discourse
He's a psychologist. Yeah, he's a psychologist. He's probably for. Again, for maybe for me, that, you know, probably maybe 50. 50% of the audience on today, we have close to 400 people now probably heard of him. Right? He's kind of like the. What? You know, in the past seven plus years, there is this, a group of people that center around Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, Eric Weinstein, Sam Harris, and there's, you know, five or six other people. They call him the dark intellectual web, right? So he's in so many ways, you know, I think he's. He's picking certain topics and certain ideas to really rejuvenate this public debate.
The Discussion on Religion and Society
Like, what does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to be a female? And what does it mean to have certain, you know, kind of political leaning, you know, the idea of religion. Yeah. He's actually, you know, being a, you know, a psychology scientist. Surprisingly, for the past, you know, three and a half years, he's been very religious about his kind of like, you know, preaching to the general public. Right. Like, just because in pursuit of truth, in pursuit of science, we don't have to abandon religion because religion has a lot of connotations and culture and social capital.
Personal Reflections on Religion
Right. So, so my kind of a question to you, Josh, is this, right. Do you think, you know, like, how would you, because you have some religious background. I'm not sure you're comfortable with this. Absolutely I am. Would love to know if you are. Would love to know. Yeah, we'd love to know how you think about, you know, like, what role does religion play in your kind of a general status within your community and also among your peers. Right. I mean, that's such a, that's such a great way to kind of, like, I think the one problem that I guess religion has is this whole institutional aspect to it.
The Institutional Nature of Religion
Right. You almost, at some points, you do lose a sense of individual relationship in, I guess, organized religion because there are hierarchies and there are social classes and statuses between priests, bishops, your nuns, and then you come to the, you know, the ordinary person in the church who's raising his hands and praying to God. Right. I mean, I, like earlier when you were talking about social capital and I, you were talking about how, you know, all these aristocrats had all these names that people really looked up to them in today's day and age, you could almost compare that to, you know, there's varying ways in which you can build your credibility.
The Relevance of Aristocracy Today
And I was just thinking about this story that a friend told me because I have a friend who knows this guy who's a Spanish aristocrat, right. And in the Spanish aristocracy, the whole thing is sort of being scrapped already. But he still holds this, like, I guess like a baron position. And they don't get any benefits for being a baron. Right. You don't get extra housing. You don't get extra land. You don't get extra anything, right? The name is literally just for namesake, but purely because of his name as Baron, he's invited to a lot of high profile events where they just want him there simply because he's a baron and they want to be able to flex their. They've got, you know, barons and baroness in their presence, aristocracy in their presence.
Perception and Trust in Aristocracy
So there's so, like, so much of these relationships that have been built through, you know, social capital, they continue living on in this day and age simply because of perception and how people have gained a sense of trust and credibility to these words that are associated with aristocracy, associated with being a part of a noble class. And, like, I want to. I want to hear from you, right. Z, do you like, when it comes to religion and, like, I don't know if you're a religious person, would love to hear from you. Do you think that. Do you, like, what do you think of social capital and religion? Do you think these are two things that can come hand in hand?
Cultural Context of Religion
Yeah. And I think this is kind of where, I'll be quite honest, like, I'm. I have this huge question mark, right. Because historically, to get a little context, right, like coming from an Asian background, obviously, you know, religion, very different role. I think religion is usually intermingled with culture, actually. And I think this is even true in a western society, right, which is like, whether you're a Christian or Muslim or, you know, kind of a Judeo, you know, kind of a Jewish faith, I think it is part of the culture, right.
Religion's Influence on Status
And I think that kind of gives you certain level, if there is certain level of social cachet or status that's actually bestowed upon you based on your religious belief. Right. Yeah. But obviously, you know, as society has become more and more secular, I think is. Is very. I think that the perception has changed a little bit, to say the least. I'm being. I'm being purposely being kind of under dramatic in this way, right. Because, you know, 100 years ago, I think, you know, of any person worthwhile of any kind of social respect or societal status, you have to be religious, right?
Shifts in Societal Values
I mean, the Church of England was actually founded predicate on this idea, right. But obviously, you know, since the age of the, kind of the scientific discovery and as society become more and more secular and less religious, right. I think there. You can make a short argument, Josh, that, you know, and I. And there's a point I'm trying to make which is, I think in the past 40, 50 years is actually in polite society, you don't want to talk about religion, right. Because we're kind of almost. There's just kind of a cultural connotation where, it's in conflict if you're religious.
Cultural Implications of Faith
That means you're not enlightened, you're not well educated. And I think the reason I'm bringing this up is because I think I. I was actually somewhat inspired by you because I think you wore your heart on a sleeve and you. You wear your faith on you. Oh, man. Yeah. Meaning you're. We talked about previously. We talked about this, right. Three weeks ago, is that you know, I think the best version of you is the most honest and most authentic version of yourself.
Jordan Peterson's Perspective
Right. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because I think, you know, someone like Jordan Peterson, again, for people who are listening, you don't have to agree with everything he says. There's a lot of kind of controversial stuff he talks about. Yeah. But I think he does bring a point, which is like, you know, I think we need to, in order for younger people to really have a standing, they need to discover a version of themselves that might be potentially anchored on religion.
Inspiration and Personal Beliefs
Right. And I think you were very inspiring, actually. I was actually inspired two months ago when we talked in person. You say, hey, your dad was a former. Was a preacher. Right. And you're, while you may not be a man of cloth, you do, you know, you do believe in. You know, you do have your faith and deep down within. Yeah. Right. And I. I think the one really interesting thing for me is that I like, for example, in the church community, and when you tell other people that, hey, your dad is someone who leads a congregation, there's always a huge sense of respect for people who are in service.
Service and Social Capital
And that service and that level of, I guess, compassion and giving to the community is what gains you social capital, which can be so different from what the world shows in the world. You know, I was literally watching this series for the past three days while doing my work. It's called Gangs of London. And the whole story is about this boy who tries to become his dad, who his dad was like the biggest drug kingpin in the whole of London. And, you know, the whole time he was just trying to gain social capital by killing and destroying everything around him.
Contrast of Values in Society
And sometimes as a religious person, there can be a disconnect with a lot of narratives that are being put out into this world on how you can attain success or social capital, for that matter. Yeah. And I think this is kind of where I think, you know, the reason I bring this up is because I think, you know, like we, you know, in the past, when we talk about social capital, it's always coming from a perspective like, you know, like some professional, you know, kind of professional profession should you take.
The Value of Honesty
Right. Like, you know, in, for the most part, in western society, lawyers, doctors. Right. Or I. Athletes and celebrities. I think that's how we typically ascribe to this idea, you know, being. Having high status, right. But I'm saying, like, you know, just being a good, honest, good person. Right. And having. Having a good sense of where you want to go in life. Right. You could be guided by principle of, like, just, you know, science or it could be guided by, you know, your deep faith and, you know, the higher being.
Redefining Status
I think those are all viable alternatives. And the reason why I'm sharing this with our audience that, you know, we talk about this, right? And I don't want to project is this image that the only way you can earn status is by being wealthy or being famous. Right. That's not necessarily. Could not be further from the truth. Right? Like at the beginning of opening kind of our monologue and soliloquies that, you know, status, you know, every one of us are born with some unit of it, right?
Status as an Earned Quality
And for the most part, status is actually earned. Yeah. Right. It's not given. Right. And. And the reason I'm bringing up religions is a perfect example. Right? If you're ever. You're faithful to your religion, then that's something you practice every single moment when you're alive. Right? So every day you earn it. There's no such thing that you're preordained to be. To be a religious or, you know, faithful. But what do you think about.
Discussions on Nepotism
Okay, like a huge hotly debated topic amongst final year Cambridge students or final year students in general is that, you know, a lot of high, really high paying jobs tend to be dominated by nepotism or dominated by, you know, hey, my dad works as MD in this. In this financial center, and therefore I'm getting this job. Do you think then that, like, it seems quite. It seems quite, you know, it seems to me that, hey, status can actually be passed on through blood.
Reflections on Status and Connections
You know, like we. That it may not be through your son getting a name, lord something, but it could come in other shapes or form. Yeah, no, I think that's actually a very profound question. And by the way, for people who are listening, this is why, Josh, you know, you got accepted in Cambridge. I think you have a way to really cut through the noise. And I think that's actually a really good question, and I don't have all the answers, but the way I look at it is this, right. The rational side, the part of me that was always optimistic and idealistic is that everyone should have a get to the starting line at the same time.
Pursuing Success
Right. And it should be 100% earned.
The Pursuit of Unfair Advantage
Yeah. Is 0% given. Right. And I think that's kind of what I aspire for myself was like, okay, like, nothing's ever given to you. You have to work hard and work smart. Right. But the reality is this, right? And I think this is actually something that, you know, I always talked about right now, that my new dad, three years into this journey, I always want to put on this lens. Do I want to give certain unfair advantage to my baby girl? Yeah. Right? And Josh, you know, you're too young maybe in this journey. I think you know what I'm doing. Would you. Would you want to give an unfair advantage to your baby girl? Do you think that's something that is maybe a bit contentious for you? And could you talk a bit more about that contention?
Biological Underpinnings of Advantage
Yeah, I think it's biological, and that's the way kind of. I kind of want to explain this, right. Like, rational side of me, though, the way that I just explained it, which is that, you know, of course, you know, you want society to be fair and completely open and transparent, right? But the. But you want to put a kind of more. Kind of a primal level, right, as an individual, as a dad, or I just. As a kind of a person, right? You want to give it unfair advantage for a simple reason, one. Like, it's genetically ingrained in us, right? There's. There's a reason why we have. We have natural selection, right? People who are taller and strong and smart and faster, their offspring tend to have a stronger chance of survival. And I think this is deeply encoded in evolution, right? And I think the second part, which is this, right, I think there is a, you know, whether, you know, the selfish gene, right? Richard Dawkins talked about this as well, right? Like, evolution, you know, society, all this stuff is actually ingrained, this idea that, you know, self-preservation is the best motivation, right? So that's why it's conflicted, right? And that's why, for example, whenever I see someone, let's say, and I think you probably were gonna do this, right?
Preferential Treatment in Society
Like. And this is also true, you know, among the well educated elites in the US, right? Like, people get kind of like, you know, you get preferential treatment, right? And by the way, there's not for people, again, for people who are listening, I want to be very intelligent on this conversation. That's not to say, like, for example, if you're a total idiot and you show up at Goldman Sachs, or you show up, you know, apple, you immediately get a, you know, special, you know, kind of promoted, elevated position. That's not how it works. How you really work is this. Right. And I think this is kind of the. And we're going to circle around to a larger point, which is those people, they usually start at a kind of the early stage. For example, the example I always give is that, you know, Elon Musk actually takes one of his kid to his on board meetings at SpaceX and Tesla. Yeah. Right? Yeah. What great. Like, what a great way. Like, I wish I was okay. I mean, I don't know if that kid wants to do that, but how cool would that be? You know, you'll be growing up speaking to, like, of course there'll be so much pressure on the kid as well when they do grow up. But just that experience alone and having access to be entering into that room in that capacity like, that seems a bit like, you know, that is an unfair advantage that his kid is getting.
Discussion on Social Status and Nepotism
You know, and you could see it from that way. Yeah. And just gonna really to get this point across, right. For people who are listening, like, there's no animus, there's no secret little cabal or like, kind of like secret forces, actually. It's just these are the unfair advantage what social status gives you, right? These kids, these offspring, they get early access. Another famous example, LeBron James son, right, by all account, is nepotism. So it's not just on the intellectual levels, even athletic level. I mean, he's, he stands at six three. So clearly he's genetically, I think, you know, he's better off than 90, let's say 8% of the population. But he's not in the 99 percentile. He's not his dad. He's not six nine, you know, built like a train, right? 63, relatively small for NBA guard. But, and by all account, he, you know, but he, ever since he was a little kid, he had access to the highest echelon of professional performance, right? Personal trainers. So that's another form of, literally his. Basketball mentor is one of the greatest players to exist.
Examples of Unfair Advantages
How much more can you ask from that? Exactly right. And so I'll give you another two or three examples. Just again, I really want to drive this point home, which is Bill Gates. There's a. For people who are listening to me, you may not be familiar with the story, but Bill Gates, obviously, he's a smart kid, you know, went to Harvard, right? But how he landed the famous 1980s business contract was IBM was because his mom, Bill Gates mom, Bill Gates dad, was actually a powerful lawyer, you know, kind of upper middle class, I would say, like the wealthiest person in the US, but upper middle class, powerful lawyer by his mom does a lot of volunteer work. And on the board of the director was a nonprofit organization with a CEO of IBM. So at a young age of 20, Bill Gates was actually able to directly talk to the CEO of IBM and get that licensing contract with IBM to sell Microsoft Windows. So that's another great example, right? It wasn't like, oh, like, you know, he got some preferential treatment. He still had to walk through the door, right? But that door was open. Right. In a very kind of a non ceremonious way. You just, hey, mom knows the CEO, right? And so there are examples, more and more examples of that.
Reflection on Status and Social Capital
So. But what does that mean for people who are like us, right. All for all, you know, we neither come for wealth or nor fame. Then what do you do? Right. And I think this is kind of where the larger point I'm trying to get to is this, right? Whether you believe in web three or crypto or blockchain or technology as a whole. Right. Which is there is something in the air in the sense that we are finding a new way to help younger generation to earn their status. And I think, Josh, I think this is kind of where you're so, kind of the, you know, I think you're kind of interesting intersection of like, you're so part of the Olga in the sense that, you know, well educated, right? One, two, one, the best university, right? But the question is now, and do you see that, you know, maybe will this situation change in the next 50 years? Is kind of the elite education the only way, right. It's getting paid a seven figure salary. The only way to make a decent living and to earn status in society.
Alternative Pathways to Status
And I think the answer, and I'll just kind of purposely bias your answer a little bit, which is obviously Balaji has been talking about the network state, which is this idea that you can actually earn your life without being directly affiliated with any traditional companies or governments, right? And then I think crypto is the same way. Right. You can actually make, you can make a mark for yourself and increase your financial standing by just actually pioneering something that's completely different and radically different than what was given to us by prior generations. So I think that's kind of where I kind of want to pick your brain a little bit. Right. What would you tell the next version of Josh, for people who are listening. Right. Some of them may be younger than you. What would you tell them? What advice would you tell them for the next 10, 20, 30 years?
Personal Stories of Growth and Realization
And I'm going to tell you my raw, honest answer. And I want to hear, like, whether you think this is a good mentality whether this is a good mentality to have. Right. I think it was sometime around, like, two, three years ago when. Okay, honestly, for me, like, this is, this, again, is a little bit personal to me. I'm just sharing this openly because we keep it real on this channel. And I remember there was this one day I was walking into the Solana office, and I was looking to close a deal with Solana, looking to get Solana on board with the Cambridge University and running a few events. And I was just kind of nervous, man. It was Somerset house in London. And I was literally walking in, and I saw this dad and his son walk out of the same venue. And I was like, damn, bro, I wish, like, there was someone here to literally, like, hold my hand, walk me in the conference room, and we can get the deal in the bag immediately, just because of nepotism.
Changing Perspectives on Achievements
And I remember thinking to myself that afternoon, I was like, hey, you know what? Maybe, like, it's time for me to change my perception, right? Like, I. Like, you know what? I don't actually need anyone with me in that room. I don't need anyone's extra help. In fact, I'm going through this process where I'm shaping myself through failure. And it's a very difficult thing to process, right? Because it's not rational. Who wants to go through suffering? Who wants to go through another layer of, you know, who wants to go through another layer of discussions to get to the final objective? Everyone. All of us want things now, now. And I think one day I just got tired of complaining. You know, I just got tired of saying, like, hey, where is my nepotism? Or where is my privilege? And I think that, for me, was kind of was quite cathartic for me because it really enabled me to truly understand where my own real value lies instead of where someone where, instead of where someone else's value.
The Impact of Opportunity on Value
Like, it could be. It could have been my dad who brought me into the office and got me the deal, but, hey, he wasn't there. And it was all to do with my own capability and my own effort. And that's something that I can say through and through without any shame, which is something that you don't. You know, sometimes you don't even hear students in Cambridge like, you know, when you ask them, like, hey, which school do you go to before this? And they're kind of shy about it because they know if they say they went to a top boarding school, it would be like, of course you've made it to Cambridge, right? Like, you've been basically trained since day one with all these best resources to get to where you're meant to be.
The Evolving Nature of Social Capital
Yeah. And I think this, again, you know, with our audience in mind, I think there's something that it's not gonna go away. Right. I think it would just evolve into something different in terms of how you earn your status in society. Right. It will not change. I'll just sort. And I'll just kind of. You will not change. Right. So there will be a new form. Right. So the point of this conversation, I was like, hey, we. We have transcend. We have transcended humanity and status and culture will no longer be relevant. What we're saying is basically every generation, you're gonna have a different way to actually earn your. A different way of expressing that social capital.
Generational Shifts in Status Recognition
Exactly. You know. You know, 2300 years ago was like nobility, right? Are you a kick ass warrior? Are you a knight? Right. Are you a lord? Right? And, you know, for the past 150 years, basically, are you well educated? Are you in certain profession, right? And then for the past 50 plus years, I think it is really about your financial income, right? Yeah. Your kind of. Your cultural relevancy actually become more and more important. Right? So, like, and I think in the next. Honestly, I think in the past 50 years, if, say, you made the stupidest amount of money amongst all your friends, and if you knew that your job was basically useless, everyone around you will most likely still see you as someone who's capable and credible or a good businessman, you know, because you're making a lot of money.
Stability and New Forms of Social Capital
And even if the job itself is not that great, but you're still bringing the dough, and I think you've exactly nailed it. Zee, is that the expression and the way in which social capital, you know, it will still exist in the next 50 years, the next hundred years, but the shape and form in which it expresses itself will begin to change. And I love that. And I think just kind of nerd out a little bit, right? I mean, in biology, we have a thing called genotype and phenotype. Genotype is what's encoded. Phenotype is what get manifested, what's gets shown. And I think that's kind of exactly what the point both of our trying to make, right, which is, like, for people who are involved. And I think this is kind of one of the common thread that we're trying to really tease out, which is that in blockchain, crypto and web three, I think there will be a different way for you to manifest your status in your capacity and your capabilities.
Exploring the Impact of Social Capital
Right. And you're not just your attitude, but also your aptitude as well. Right. In a very different way. And I think the one, the kind of the closing thought that in, hopefully we can go a little bit deeper next time, which is I recently just kind of saw going through like a pretty well published a journal on nature. It's actually one of the most prestigious publication out there. It was a multi decade study on social capital. And the way they presented this study by the two professors, that does social capital actually have any direct impact on your wellbeing, meaning your health, right. Your economic kind of standing and also your safety? And then, and this is a little shocking, right. In theory, like, you know, social capital should actually make you a better person.
Conclusive Findings and Implications
The data, the statistical data is actually inconclusive. Right. Does it bring a certain level of societal stability? I think the short answer, I would say intuitively it should, right? Because we come from church and villages and towns, right? Having more social capital, having people more involved within their local communities should actually give a, the community a more kind of longer term stability. But again, the data is actually inconclusive. The only thing, the only thing that actually see is statistically significant is that your ability to bridge your financial income with some of higher standing. Your ability to bridge your financial income with someone of higher standing. And this is kind of, again, it's intuitive, but it's really evident. You look at the data and by the way, this is a multi decade study. They study across, I think, like 40 big cities in the US.
Social Mobility and Connections
And they kind of see insurance cities, for example, New York, San Francisco. Right. Because this is such a big major city and metropolitan areas is actually very likely for someone of lower income to be directly, financially directly connected with some of higher. Yeah. And surprisingly, that creates the biggest upward list. Meaning if you know someone rich, you actually are more likely. I mean, I'm trying to translate very dense. And there was even a study done in Cambridge, like, literally in Cambridge University, that showed a group of like, groups, one to five, group one being students coming from the lowest tier of, like, you know, income or like family income in general, all the way till five.
Predictors of Future Success
Right? And they found that those who scored four and five were almost 70% more likely than anyone in groups one and two. To become successful in the future. Successful meaning earning at least 150k within the first three years of graduation. Yeah. And I think this is the most shocking part. Right? I mean, we're talking about, like, people who are earning like, let's say below minimum wage or like, you know, let's say 15, $20,000 in the US. And as long as they're connected somehow, either by one degree or two degrees of separation in about a decade is actually one of the biggest predictor whether you're going to have upper financial trajectory.
Concluding Thoughts
I really like that. And that's why you.
Discussion on Social Capital
I really like the word you use, Bridge. Could you, like, talk a bit more about that? How exactly do you think we can bridge this social capital divide then?
Crypto Involvement Levels
And I think this is kind of where I think, and I'll just kind of be direct. Was it within crypto is reach is more about, for example. I mean, we obviously know there are different levels with crypto involvement. There are people who are considered ogs, right? People basically they. They made their stripes back in like, let's say 20, you know, eleven, 2012. Meaning they were buying early in those days. Right. And those guys actually funded people like fatality. Yeah. Right. And, and now it's just kind of a. On a tangent. Storytelling. Right. Which is a lot of the early bitcoin miners. I'm talking about people who really made their like eight figure, nine figure, life changing money. They're not the most. What, right. Literally, they were printing money themselves. Right, for about four or five years.
Early Bitcoin Miners' Background
And I met actually several of them when I was doing the tour in Asia back in 2017. Not the most well educated, I'll be honest. Right. They don't have prestigious university backgrounds. And the reason why they were attracted to bitcoin mining back in those days is because they couldn't. These are basically tier three, tier four software engineers or business people. They couldn't cut it at these, you know, big tech companies or, you know, at these major prestigious firms. So they were basically forced to carve out a space for themselves. I think lesson learned there don't always just pursue the most obvious path. Right. And because it worked out really well. For those people and, like, they created their own version of reality, you know, while everyone around them was, you know, like, this is some shit coin that you're buying.
Tenacity and Holding on to Beliefs
It's zero utility. And, like, now, like, I know one OG from Singapore and, you know, she gave up. She. I'm very close friends with her daughter, and every year during crypto conferences, she hosts a really big party in Singapore. And, you know, she was telling the. Telling me about her story, right? She used to be an air stewardess, and every paycheck that she had she would put into bitcoin and into other coins as well. And all the while, her family was telling her that, what a stupid thing to do because you have literally a daughter to feed and how can you do that? And now they are extremely successful, without question. And it's really that tenacity. It's not given, it's earned. It's being contrarian is thinking against the grain and not always following the most obvious step at the very outset.
The Concept of 'Bridge to Nowhere'
And I think this is kind of where I'm going to purposely misuse a phrase, bridge to nowhere and politic. Bridge to nowhere is a negative term meaning you took a lot of public's money and you build a bridge that literally leads to nowhere. That was a term that was used by a lot of the us governments. Basically, they would fund these public parts for 20, $30 million, and they would literally build a bridge. If you get across the bridge, it literally is nowhere. But in this context, on purpose using it, what you really want to do is bridge to nowhere in the sense that take the opportunities that's actually afforded to you get across to a space that's actually completely open.
Finding Opportunities in New Environments
Why open space? A bridge. Don't know where. Meaning once you get to that space, you can actually build something based on your own idea, based on your own what you're good at as opposed to constantly fight for the same battle. Right. So. And I think this is kind of where Josh, you know, you being kind of a Singaporean, the chances you get into the upper echelon of British society is pretty low because you don't have, you know, five generations of nobility in your family in the UK to really help you push forward. But you being a man of international background and you're.
Cultural Environment and Social Capital
You have, you know, kind of. You're multilingual. Yeah. Right. You have, you know, the east and the west build that bridge to somewhere else. I love that. So you can actually, you've absolutely nailed it. I mean, finding the environment that suits you the most. Earlier were talking about, you know, like religion. Right. And gaining respect and religion. I would like, if I were to gain a lot of social capital in my own, in group, in this religious organization that I'm part of, the moment I leave that in group, you know, people outside of that social capital might look very different.
Identifying Supportive Environments for Success
Right. Like me trying to become a prime minister in the UK. In the UK House of Lords like that might most likely not be possible. So finding exactly where, which environment I thrive in the most as my own unique individual, I think it's an honest way to look at yourself in the mirror and be like, okay, this is where you would most likely. This is where you would most likely thrive and which. This is the environment that would most likely benefit me the most. Yeah. And I think this is actually one of the kind of a go hard truth, which is the best way to earn your social status and to have to gain the highest level of social capital is actually go into the kind of.
Navigating New Territories for Growth
The kind of uncharted, brand new territory. And usually it also means going to a territory. It may not be popular, it may be looked down upon. Right. And I think this is actually something that, for example, again, just giving some really concrete examples, you know, 100 years ago, being an actor is actually looked down upon. People don't realize actors, you know? Yeah. It was always looked out upon, like, in aging. If you talk to your mom, Josh, you know, she will probably tell you. Right. Being actors, 100 years ago was not. Was not a prestigious profession.
Evolution of Social Perception
It was actually because what we associate is the glamour of Hollywood. But people don't realize 100 years ago is literally, you're just a local town, you know, kind of a drama player on stage. Right. There's not a lot of fame. Being an athlete is the same thing. Right. The modern version of athletes being good at sports. It's also not something that's actually on a high pedestal. Right. It wasn't until the past, I would say, probably 60 or 70 years. Right. True story.
Historical Context of Athletics
Before World War two, most Olympians had to pay for their own tickets to go to the Olympics. There's no sponsorship. Right. So Jesse Owens actually had to pay for his own ticket to go to attend the Berlin Olympics. Right. Before World War two. Yeah. Right. So those are kind of the things that people don't realize. And then, you know, for example, and the reason I bring this up, being a software engineer, I can tell you this. Right. 20 years ago, when I was in middle school and high school, like you, it's not. It's frowned upon because that means you have a dead end.
The Shift in Perception of Technology Careers
You're not the most popular kid in school. Right. You just have to do a math or engineering door. But obviously, the past 30 years changed quite a lot. Right. Because that's Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Elon's of the world showcase. Completely different. Yeah. Right. And I think this is kind of where I think, you know, the being involved in blockchain, crypto and web three right now, it's frowned upon. I mean, to be quite honest.
Navigating Societal Perceptions
Right. You go into any polite society, I mean, for everyone who's listening, I'm assuming, you know, you're remotely interested in crypto and blockchain. Right? It's, it's not, in polite society, it's not like, you know, I can go to Stanford campus and talk to some of my ex professors. You know, they're not looking at, oh, like Z, that's amazing. Right? And I told them I'm still working at Google. You probably get more favorable kind of a reception. But you say, hey, I'm working at crypto. They think you're, it's no different than, hey, that's feel shady, right.
Embracing Unconventional Paths
But that's exactly my point. I want to get into this territory because guess what? I'm not fighting, you know, 200,000 other, you know, people with computer science background or people with finance background. Right. I'm going to a brave new world, a uncharted territory. Right. And I think that's really inspiring. Yeah, that's really good because, I mean, even as an individual myself, I battle with that tension as well.
Staying True to Yourself
Like you said, it's not like when you go into polite society and you say you're on blockchain or in crypto, you might get some interesting stairs, especially if you're in an Asian society or amongst people who have been burned before. And I think at the end of the day, it's about staying true to yourself. If this is something that you truly see value in, then keep defending itbecause it's what you see value in.
Resilience and Thick Skin
And of course, like, there will be a lot of things when there will, there could even be situations down the line where, you know, these people that started doubting you at the very beginning could be the ones asking you for help. Down the line. Yeah, that's exactly it. And, you know, don't you know, you gotta, we all gotta learn to grow some thick skin for sure, and then just be able to kind of. Really. Because if everyone in society already acknowledges you, then you're just one of the many.
Innovation Through Critics
Right. If everyone's somewhat doubtful. Right. Then you know what? You might be onto something. Right. If you're not offending anyone, you're not doing anything interesting. Right. If you're offending some people, I might be just upsetting the car and. Right. And you're really kind of saying, hey, I'm gonna be remarkable. Being remarkable just means you're leaving a mark. It's not to just blend in.
Creating Deeper Conversations
Right. So I think that's something that, you know, we should always kind of go a little bit deeper. And, you know, these weekly conversation with Josh is really just kind of for us to basically explain how we're thinking about this and how we're approaching crypto web three in a way that's actually slightly different. Right. Because I think culture and status is so important with everything we do at our company.
Reaching Out to Community
And also, you know, we are really hoping to reach out to our community and say, hey, you know what? I'm. We're a little bit more methodical. Right. We're no different. Like, I want to make all the riches. I want people, you know, to kind of basically benefit from our work. But at the same time, you know, I think we're thoughtful in the sense that there's so much life is rich, there's so much more interesting stuff below the surface, beyond just the token prices.
Continued Engagement and Exploration
Right. And Josh is yet another amazing conversation. And, you know, we should really, you know, kind of go deeper and deeper in these conversations, and then at some point, you know, maybe we should just turn this into a formal podcast, and we're just. We'll do a Joe Rogan stuff. I love that, man. With actual discussion. Yeah, absolutely.
Value of Transparency
I mean, I. I think the one thing that, you know, being part of now, like, the timeless community, the timeless, you know, the timeless group, and being. And having spent all these hours of you guys now, the one thing that I truly value in these conversations is, honestly, the transparency. Right? You guys always keep it real. And I think for every, like, if I were a viewer listening into this conversation, the top thing that I would get is that, you know, through the entire methodology, through the entire, you know, your, like, how exactly things go on behind the scenes in timeless, you guys flesh everything out for people to see.
Acknowledgement of Team Efforts
No. No cloth is left unturned. And I think that's something that's really valuable and really special. And then, you know, I'm always, you know, mindful, you know, sure. Dar is always in the background doing a thankless job, and then I. I know it's been pretty stressful, you know, as we're trying to get ready for token 2049 Singapore, it's happening literally less than a month away. Josh, hopefully. Hopefully you can.
Excitement for Upcoming Events
I'll be there to shit it for you, man. I'll be your number one ambassador, bro. Trust. Okay. I cannot wait. I cannot wait. And then we're obviously going deeper and deeper into the ton blockchain ecosystem. Again, no financial advice, no chip advice, but I, for people who are still listening to, that's the way to go.
The Future of Blockchain
So it is the age of ton. Last year was all about Solana. I think this year and next year it will be the age of tongue. We're just seeing a lot of good activities across defi social fi within the telegram ecosystem. And we're expecting some pretty big announcements during Token 2049 from the telegram team because last year they announced automatic opt in for all the telegram users who have a ton wallet. I think this year they're going to probably make a similar announcement and I think the price action will reflect that.
Closing Remarks
So again, not a financial advice. So, Gary, you know, don't come after us. That's right. All right, guys, another great conversation in the can. Josh, thank you so much. You know, glad you recover. Yeah. Love this. Love this kind of back and forth with you. Absolutely. It's such a great time. And we'll see you all next week. Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Farewell
All right, night. Bye, guys. Thank you.
