Space Summary
The Twitter Space Sphinx + Truflation: Unlocking the Power of Perpetuals for RWAs hosted by truflation. Exploring the decentralized infrastructure of Sphinx & Truflation in managing RWAs, Indexes, and Inflation. With over 18 million data points and collaboration with Chainlink, the space emphasizes transparency, reliability, and data integrity. Perpetuals play a vital role in optimizing RWA potential, alongside innovative inflation management by Truflation. Sphinx & Truflation introduce pioneering approaches to data integrity, setting new standards for RWA ecosystems.
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Space Statistics
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Questions
Q: How does decentralized infrastructure support RWAs?
A: Decentralized infrastructure facilitates RWAs, Indexes, and Inflation by leveraging over 18 million data points from 60+ providers.
Q: What role does Chainlink play in ensuring transparency?
A: Chainlink's backing guarantees transparency, security, and censorship resistance within the ecosystem.
Q: Why are Perpetuals essential for RWAs in the context of Sphinx & Truflation?
A: Perpetuals are integral in unlocking the potential of RWAs, providing critical mechanisms for asset management.
Q: How does Truflation innovate inflation management?
A: Truflation introduces innovative mechanisms for efficient inflation management, contributing to the ecosystem's sustainability.
Q: What benefits do Sphinx & Truflation bring to data integrity?
A: Sphinx & Truflation emphasize data integrity and trustworthiness, enhancing the credibility of their offerings in the space.
Q: Why is the collaboration with Chainlink significant for Sphinx & Truflation?
A: Collaborating with Chainlink adds reliability and data integrity, ensuring the robustness of Sphinx & Truflation solutions.
Q: What are the key aspects of Sphinx & Truflation's offerings for managing RWAs?
A: Sphinx & Truflation provide innovative solutions that enhance transparency, reliability, and security in managing RWAs effectively.
Q: How do Sphinx & Truflation contribute to the RWA ecosystem?
A: Sphinx & Truflation emphasize the importance of transparency, reliability, and security in the RWA ecosystem, setting new standards for participants.
Q: What makes Sphinx & Truflation unique in the space?
A: Sphinx & Truflation stand out for their innovative approaches to managing RWAs, focusing on transparency, reliability, and security.
Q: How do Sphinx & Truflation enhance data trustworthiness?
A: Sphinx & Truflation prioritize data integrity and trustworthiness, ensuring a reliable foundation for managing RWAs effectively.
Highlights
Time: 00:15:30
Decentralized Infrastructure Support for RWAs Exploring how decentralized infrastructure upholds RWAs, Indexes, and Inflation with over 18 million data points.
Time: 00:25:12
Chainlink's Role in Transparency Assurance Understanding how Chainlink backing ensures transparency, security, and censorship resistance in the ecosystem.
Time: 00:35:45
Perpetuals and RWAs Synergy Examining the critical role of Perpetuals in maximizing the potential of RWAs within Sphinx & Truflation ecosystem.
Time: 00:45:20
Truflation's Innovation in Inflation Management Discovering how Truflation introduces novel mechanisms for efficient inflation management.
Time: 00:55:10
Data Integrity Emphasis by Sphinx & Truflation Highlighting the focus on data integrity and trustworthiness to enhance credibility in the space.
Time: 01:05:30
Collaborative Strength with Chainlink Exploring the significance of partnering with Chainlink for reliability and data integrity in Sphinx & Truflation ecosystem.
Time: 01:15:40
Innovative Solutions for Managing RWAs Discussing Sphinx & Truflation's groundbreaking solutions emphasizing transparency, reliability, and security in RWA management.
Time: 01:25:55
Pioneering Standards in RWA Ecosystem Emphasizing Sphinx & Truflation's role in setting new benchmarks for transparency, reliability, and security within the RWA ecosystem.
Time: 01:35:20
Unique Approaches by Sphinx & Truflation Highlighting the uniqueness of Sphinx & Truflation's strategies in managing RWAs with a focus on transparency, reliability, and security.
Time: 01:45:30
Trustworthy Data Foundation Exploring how Sphinx & Truflation ensure data trustworthiness as a cornerstone for effective RWA management.
Key Takeaways
- Decentralized infrastructure supports RWAs, Indexes, and Inflation with over 18 million data points.
- Utilization of over 60 providers enhances robustness and reliability in the ecosystem.
- Chainlink backing ensures transparency, security, and resistance to censorship.
- Perpetuals play a crucial role in unlocking the power of RWAs in the context of Sphinx & Truflation.
- Truflation introduces innovative mechanisms to manage inflation efficiently within the ecosystem.
- Understanding the intersection of Perpetuals, RWAs, and decentralized infrastructure is vital for participants in the space.
- Emphasis on data integrity and trustworthiness enhances the credibility of Sphinx & Truflation offerings.
- Collaboration with Chainlink provides reliability and integrity to the data utilized within Sphinx & Truflation.
- Innovative solutions like Sphinx & Truflation pave the way for new possibilities in managing RWAs effectively.
- The space highlights the importance of transparency, reliability, and security in RWA ecosystems.
Behind the Mic
Testing the Audio
Testing, testing, testing, one, two. Testing, testing, one, two. Hey, fellas, if you're out there and you can hear me, can you give me a thumbs up emoji so I know that the audio is going well. We appreciate you tuning in and listening. Any kind of thumbs up, just so I'm sure that you're listening. Sorry. That you can hear me rather. Thumbs up. Thumbs up. If you can hear me. Thumbs up. Oh, good. Requesting invited to speak. Is Greg invited to speak is Austin. Check your DM's request to speak. Thanks, everybody. I appreciate it. So accept our request to speak and let me vamp a little bit. Welcome to a special edition of Trueflation Spaces. It's a getaway day edition. We've got the guys from Sphinx, the perpetual trading platform out at SDD. They're here to talk perpetuals, rwas, electric vehicle, commodities indexes.
Trading Opportunities and Platforms
You can trade 24 hours a day, seamlessly, wherever you want, whatever you want. And we're hopefully going to get triflation powering that. In the meantime, trying to get people up on stage here. I'm inviting everybody to speak. So do check your DM's request to speak as well, and I will bring you right up on stage. That would be to Greg, Betty, Austin, and everybody. I even got the Sphinx crew in here. But again, you are listening to trufflation spaces. If you haven't already do, head out to trufflation.com. i think you'll find if it's not every day that we do something different or put up something new, it's at least weekly. Crazy stuff going on, brand new user interfaces, new ways of interacting with the site, new feeds. The blog is very active with not only partnership announcements, but also cool little articles on issues of the.
Introducing Sphinx and its Team
But again, you are listening to trufflation spaces. It is our special edition with the guys from Sphinx. Austin from Austin, excuse me, Dirji, who is the CMO, and Greg Perrin, who of course, is the CEO of Sphinx. And we're really excited to have them on. I'm trying to get everybody here. If you can request a speech, then I can get you on. And looks like we're waiting for just a couple more people. And we're almost there. But anyway, we're very excited to have everybody here. It looks like the gang is all here. And again, yo, there. All right, great, great. We're gonna kind of start off everything with, just in case people are just kind of tuning in and coming in here again. You are listening to Sphinx and trufflation. Sphinx is out at Sphx IO. It's a, excuse me, a perpetual trading platform.
Trading on the Sphinx Platform
You can get on there 24 hours a day. It's seamless, frictionless, low cost, and you can trade whatever whenever you want. And we're talking today about integrating trufflation indexes and empowering some really cool stuff. Rwas perpetuals and of course, our electric vehicles index market. We're gonna start, I guess, with our CEO, Stephan Roost. Stefan, great to have you back, man. Give us kind of an overview here of what we can expect. I know you're big fans of Sphinx, right? Yeah, no, thanks. Yeah, great to be here. Thanks, everybody, for joining. Super excited about the partnership with Sphinx and what Sphinx are doing. Right. I mean, Greg and Austin been hustling in building a really cool new, unpaving of the new path for, I think, where RWA should be heading and will be going in terms of building out synthetic trading capabilities and speculation associated with commodities and largely especially energy products.
Future Endeavors with Sphinx
And without stealing too much. I mean, we met a while back by sheer. I can't even remember how we met, but, yeah, we just hit it off. We shared the same vision and, yeah, we really sort of. It was actually about just pre consensus around Austin in Austin. And, yeah, we just continued to meet in person. We continue to drive further and what's this about, right? I mean, we've been talking a lot about rwas, and the whole industry has been talking about rwas for a long time, I think all the way back since Ethereum actually sort of came about smart contracts waiting for big institutionalized investors and just general enterprise and institutions to come onto the blockchain and help move some of the real world onto the blockchain.
Challenges in the RWA Space
However, the hurdles and the leaps that are needed to jump in order to get rwas onto the blockchain in terms of the number of participants across the legacy ecosystems, the number of organizations within those ecosystems or within those organizations that are needed to get to buy in on allocating resources and time and effort into and onto the blockchain, competing against other corporate it, budget related and infrastructure software related activities are all an impediment to the rapid growth of this opportunity. That's why we at trufflation and the Truth Network and Laguna Labs are really bullish on seeing the growth of synthetic tokenization of real world. How do we bring real world number one as a source of truth onto a blockchain? Number two is how do we enable the interaction with real world in a synthetic form once the source of truth is brought onto chain and enable the trading, the speculation and the participation in the opportunity associated with those assets that are not available necessarily to the population on the planet, but then also make it much more attractive from a time to market perspective, a reduction in cost perspective.
Innovations by Sphinx
All of those elements are now here today thanks to truth and thanks to Sphinx. And Sphinx innovating on bringing an interface to the market that allows people to interact with these assets that have historically only been available to highly professional traders, number one, and who have access on top of that to these 15 special interest banks and systemically important banks that can trade and enable the trading of those. And so I'm really proud to sort of introduce to us and have here Austin and Greg, who've been foraging and hustling and sort of leading the way and charge in trying to blend the world of crypto, the DJen market, together with that of the institutional energy traders that are out there and using their Bloomberg terminals and their other interfaces.
Combining Traditional and Innovative Trading
And now all of a sudden, they have, at a far greater cost advantage, a nice interface and bringing together, we want to bring the same kind of experience and speed of interaction that they can get on traditional institute environments at a cost basis that is significantly more advanced contagious. So, yeah, me, I shut up now and then maybe. Greg, I think you hit it. You hit it right on the head when you said the nice interface. It's. I'm sort of, you know, I, you know, we want to talk numbers and money and gains and all that stuff, but Sphinx out at SPHs dot S. Boy, did I kill that sph x IO. Actually quite beautiful.
User Interface and Experience
Like the interface, the ux, it's really nice to interact with. It works well. It's seamless, frictionless, and, yeah, when you combine that with the power of trufflation, I think it's going to be a pretty powerful combination. But without any further ado, let's bring aboard the fellas from Sphinx. We'll start off with, I guess, Austin. Austin Dirji, the CMO out at Sphinx. Austin, how are you? Hello. I'm good, I'm good. Yeah. Thanks for the great introduction there, Stefan. It's honestly a pleasure to be here. Thinking back to how we met. Yeah, I guess it was just post consensus when like, yeah, the buzz of RWA was really starting to take a hold of the entire industry in the community.
Excitement for the Future
We felt properly positioned alongside what you guys are doing over here at trufflation to really make a difference in bringing these assets to people in a more efficient and effective manner. My partner Greg here, I would love for him to give his introduction, but my name is Austin, and I'm the CMO of Sphinx. We've been working on this for quite a long time, guys, and we're really excited to be here with you all. Yeah, Greg, thanks for coming on. He's the CEO of Sphinx. We really appreciate it, man. Hey, y'all, I sincerely appreciate the opportunity. And Stefan, as always, thank you for the wonderful introduction.
Background of Sphinx
you know, at the end of the. Yeah, no, sorry. I mean, maybe, Greg, just give me. Give us some background and some context in sort of what. What was the impetus and the genesis behind Sphinx and why you felt the opportunity was there and why you felt that you could dedicate, you know, 300 hours a week of your life on building this and getting it here? Yeah, absolutely. So the genesis for this idea actually came from the bitcoin mining space. In a previous life, I was building large scale bitcoin mines for oil and natural gas producers here in the US.
Bitcoin Mining and Its Impact
Most of the acreage was located in North Dakota and west Texas. And natural gas in particular for, you know, for powering mines, especially when it is stranded, hard to reach, or otherwise useless, is perfect. To power these types of mines, you can mint carbon credits. You can effectively, really make an actual difference in what's happening with pollution. You know, methane is reduced. You fly over, you know, these oil fields, and it looks like a birthday cake with the amount of gas that they are flaring simply because the downstream piping can actually take it. But I digress. We effectively started looking at hedging opportunities as were mining bitcoin off of gas, because were, as always, exposed to the spot price.
Partnerships in Energy Trading
Now, at the time, we had mines with conocoPhillips, EOG, Devon Energy, Interplus, mainly publicly traded companies looking to get bitcoin on their balance sheet, as you know, as oil and natural gas producers. Austin and I had both been trading crypto for quite some time. Ive been in the space since about 2015 as a speculator. But as we started to look at energy trading as a whole, we really started to realize that the entire rails it is built on is archaic and in desperate need of an update. Now you start to back out of the market cap of crypto, right? $2.5 trillion.
The Market Value of Energy Trading
There's probably about ten to 15 times that in notional value. If you start to measure the derivatives space, which is the typical instrument that you would use to hedge a position. Energy is far bigger than that. You start to look at energy, agriculture, precious metals, these very large markets that really are trading and built on what I consider old banking rails. You know, with the advent of bitcoin, banking is, you know, it's never going to be the same again. At the end of the day, you know, the moment that, you know, the moment I read the bitcoin white paper, I was so incredibly taken by it.
The Future of Banking Technology
Right. I knew this was the industry I was going to work in from the rest of my life once I understood what it was. and at the end of the day, all of our current banking systems that trading technology is built on, settlement technology is built on, really is, you know, it is all moving towards, some variety of permissioned blockchain now. You know, Stefan brought up a really, you know, good point about how we're trying to fuse the institutional side of this business with what we consider the retail. Typically, if you look at energy trading as a whole, it's not really a, you know, it's not a retail business.
Institutional Focus in Energy Trading
There are some retail traders out there, but really, they lack the access, they lack the understanding, and for whatever reason, it's very institutionally focused. Now, our goal at Sphinx is to not only build an exchange, but also build a blockchain that can house our application and also house other institutional applications that are in need of regulation to operate. At the end of the day, energy is such a big business. The notional value of energy trading as a whole is north of $100 trillion globally. There's no way that the government's not going to get involved no matter where you are.
Government Regulation in the Energy Sector
That's just the reality. Typically, when industries start to get big enough, our version is Uncle Sam. But, you know, globally, governments are just going to stick their hand in the pot and start to regulate whatever is going once these industries grow large enough. We've seen it with crypto, and there's, you know, you can almost look at any deep tech industry as it grows. This is what happens, right? AI is kind of coming next, and we'll see what happens there. But I, you know, our goal, and I think the broader crypto industry goal needs to be to play nice with regulation.
Evolving with Regulation
You know, so many people have kind of taken on this pirate like mentality, and in the early days of crypto, that's what it was. You know, nobody had any idea what was going on and nobody knew how to regulate this stuff. But we've kind of grown to the point where regulators are actually interested in getting involved. The US is lagging behind incredibly on that front. But I do believe that the global financial ecosystem needs to set an example that the US could potentially follow someday. I believe we're making critical missteps internally and falling behind when it comes to bringing critical financial technologies inside of this country.
Critical Financial Technologies
All of the talents going elsewhere, all of the technologies being built elsewhere. But that does not mean that wherever it is being built, there isn't regulators.
Regulation in Energy Trading
Right? There's. There's still regulation and there's still this, you know, concept of legal purview that needs to be paid attention to. You know, just on that note, right? I mean, I know you, energy trading is a highly. Or, I mean, I don't know, highly regulated, but it's been under. I mean, it's gone through a number of transitions, let's say. The reason why I hesitate is I just think of Enron. They were the masters in creating a whole industry around Enron trade, around energy trading. And then on the flip side, you did mention earlier, derivatives. Derivatives is highly regulated. You combine those two, where do you see the whole market going? And how do you find a niche that we can actually take this 2 trillion, $3 trillion industry to blow it up to a $10 trillion industry over the course of the next three years?
Customer Focus and Trading Infrastructure
It ultimately starts with paying attention to the customer's needs. As we started to. Once we realized there was a problem with the trading infrastructure for commodities. And typically, you look at the western world, and that's built at the CME and ice, right? You have this layer of exchange, a layer of brokerage, and then a settlement layer. The customers, the traders, the folks that actually operate on this exchange are looking for another solution. At the end of the day, nobody likes six to seven figure setup cost. Nobody likes having to integrate with a brokerage and a clearinghouse. Nobody likes not being able to trade directly on the exchange. Nobody likes circuit breakers in times of underlying asset volatility. And the CME and ice in the western world, they have a duopoly on all of commodities trading. If you ultimately want to trade, there are geographically about singular venues, and that transcends even the western world.
Global Trading Venues and Disruption
If you look out east, you can see the Dalian commodities Exchange, the Guangzhou St. Petersburg commodities Exchange. They're all ultimately built the same way. And they don't have what I would consider a competitive reason to change. So that's really, you know, that's where we're focused. We're focused on creating disruption, focused on driving the bottom line on a trade by trade basis down such that we're, you know, we're reducing the trade cost by an order of magnitude. You know, not just one x, two x, three x, but ten x cheaper. That's really what's going to move the needle. That's what's going to grow this industry. And, you know, the business in and of itself is already there. It's just about bringing it on chain.
The Beauty of Disruption
And I think that's. Sorry. Sorry, Greg, just. But I think that's the beauty of what you're trying to do. Right? And that's what really, you know, we find super exciting, where if you, any of you who haven't read Peter Thiel's zero to IPO, zero to one, you got to read that book. Because ultimately he talks also about the need to provide a greater than ten x improvement. Because if you're just providing one or two x improvement, there's no incentive to change. And, you know, I mean, you've talked to Betty a lot. And Betty will, who's been a trader and knows the environment, will always tell you that nobody wants change. Why bring about change? And so unless you provide that ten x improvement, you're not going to get that change and you're not going to drive change in an ecosystem that is inherently clubby, inherently closed, and very difficult to integrate and work with unless you have significant checkbooks that you can bring to the table.
Tackling the Duopoly
So I think what you're doing is really tackling a duopoly, so really disrupting a high pedestal of very few individuals up there or entities that are driving it. And you're cutting middlemen, you're cutting out the stages needed to engage with the direct transaction. So I can actually directly do a transaction, which I think. Yeah, just. I want to emphasize that. Sorry, I didn't want to sort of interrupt your story, but I think that is the ten x improvement that Sphinx is really driving. And Greg was talking the CEO of Sphinx, and if you're just listening to deflation spaces, we've got the guys from Sphinx out at SpHX, IO, the perpetual trading platform, got the CEO and the CMO today, along with our own CEO, Stephane Roost. And we're talking about the partnership here.
Regulation Considerations
Greg, you mentioned regulation, and that was one of the first things you talked about. I assume you're domiciled or at least based in the US. How are you contest a little bit. What are you guys thinking of in terms of regulation? Especially with the election looming going forward, how are you going to navigate all that? So. While we are from the US, ultimately we cannot release this type of technology in the US until we get clarity from the CFTC and the SEC about not only perpetual swaps, but blockchain technology as a holistic concept of they are, you know, sending out wells notices like it's going out of style. Ultimately. We've had a lot of great companies be, I guess, I think, unfairly prosecuted at the end of the day. So we're looking outside of the US.
Trading Hubs and Regulatory Frameworks
You know, there are critical trading hubs for energy and other assets. You know, London, Singapore, these types of places. do have regulators that want to work with us. you know, we work directly with the FCA, we work directly with the Bermuda Monetary Authority to ensure not only that we're building a piece of technology that is compliant, but also building a framework that eventually might be able to be moved into the US someday. Now we're, you know, we're not hopeful about that. it's nothing necessarily on our roadmap anytime in the future, but that we would love to see, you know, I guess other countries start to become a beacon and set an example for, you know, policy and, yeah, I guess, policy here.
Reflection on the Current Landscape
That is so wild. It's so wild to think of the US as being backward commercially. That is just. It's crazy to hear you say it. I mean, I know it's a reality, but. Unbelievable. We've got also our head of data here, Yvonne Yelich, sorry. Who was instrumental in getting our electric vehicle commodities index on board. Yvonne, can you talk a little bit about the EV kind of what it does and then we'll bring back in the guys from Sphinx and how we're going to integrate all that. Yeah, definitely. Thanks and great being here. It seems like it's getting really interesting since we are getting into the tradability of the potential indexes.
Building the Electric Vehicle Index
So what we did when building the EV index, we took the metals that are used in the production of the electric vehicles and used a slightly more complex calculation in order to define the weights. So we took various electric vehicle types. So starting from the hybrid plug in vehicles, used the amount of metals used in the production of the batteries of each of those, multiplied the percentages per vehicle type, per market share of vehicle type in order to get the weights, and that resulted in having the electric vehicles index. So by applying those weights daily on the prices of the commodities or the metals of those prices that we used in this index, we summed up and voila, there is a electric vehicle index.
The Purpose of the EV Index
And the goal is to follow the price or what is the actual cost for a producer or manufacturers to produce a single battery in the electric vehicles. Hope it brings some light to it. But basically we have six metals that we used, lithium, platinum, palladium, nickel, copper, cobalt, applied weights and got the amount that's needed to produce the index. And it starts, if I'm not mistaken, in 2018. Exactly. January the first. Wow. And I think what Ivan's done around the electric vehicle index and what we're trying to do at Laguna is really with the truth network, bring the data as a source of truth and make it available, number one.
Educating the Market
But number two is also educate the market with indexes so people can get a benchmark in terms of how a specific category in an industry, what are some of the underlyings associated with that and how those underlyings are performing and what is driving a specific vertical or a category that is named and sort of captured in the form of an index. And I think, you know, indexes and the energy category is super interesting. Right. For us. And, you know, we've been talking about, know, at trufflation, we've been talking a lot about how important energy is as it correlates directly to the performance of GDP in an economy.
Energy and Economic Growth
Right. There's no economy with low energy and high growth or high GDP. So how could we build indexes that help educate market on the underlyings associated with energy and driving that and being able to translate that as an investment class and an investment grade product and not tied to companies, but tied to the raw price of the commodity itself. And Betty, who's our go ahead?, Yeah, Betty is our head of Biz Dev, out of trueflation, former trader, her own self. You know, Betty, I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to the finer points of trading, but how big is the idea of perpetuals?
The Significance of Perpetuals
Because when we're talking about energy, especially, again, I keep bringing everything back to the election, but at least one of the candidates is really pushing the idea of energy and how that's going to reduce inflation. And there's all sorts of tie ins there. So this seems like a very, I mean, the sphinx trufflation combination seems really timely, really like a really perfect time for this to go. But what are your thoughts, Betty, as a former trader, on things like perpetuals and how important they are? Well, yeah, you're right. Anything that's coming into the election is going to be significant, especially, you know, in the US. You've got Hurricane Helene, just had Hurricane Milton.
Impact of Natural Disasters
You know, obviously that's going to affect power grids, electricity across the board, and the cost of doing business or even trying to just get back to your house. And then perpetuals, I believe, is something that Arthur Hayes in first introduced from a crypto perspective, from a traditional side, we had our futures and those rollovers. So having something that's perpetual means you don't have to deal with those quarterly rollovers. So it makes it a little more seamless. But as Stefan had touched on earlier, traders don't like change. They freaking hate it. Worked at Nasdaq.
Challenges with Change in Trading
I worked on their futures exchange, which was to compete against CME and ice. Right. In terms of the duopoly that they have in the energy space. And every group that I spoke with, like, you know, yes, we want someone else to come and compete, but things are so entrenched, it's difficult. And whether they've got certain credits that they get because they trade with this certain exchange or certain credits they get because the changes trade with that exchange, they've got to hit certain volume numbers. So even though they want someone else and they need someone else, they can't, you know, their hands are a bit tied, you know, and so this is where, again, the beauty of what sphinx brings to the table, because, you know, we're not trying to come in as a Nasdaq.
Creating a New Opportunity
We're trying to come in as something completely separate and something completely different. And I did want to say, like, something that Greg had touched on about the onerous, you know, the lack of clarity and the onerous, you know, kind of regulatory environment we find in the United States. You just read, I think it was last night, this morning. Cumberland, the crypto arm of DRW, have been extremely cooperative with the government. Just got served a notice, and they've been working for years and given all of their talent and all of their time from the sea level down to work with the government, and they still just got served a notice.
Navigating a Difficult Regulatory Environment
And they basically wrote back this lengthy letter and said, basically, you know what? We'll see you in court. Wow. Wow. I don't have another adjective for it. Unbelievable. Well, bringing Greg back on the CEO of Sphinx, you talked about the wells notices. Yeah. So speak to that, I guess. I don't know what to say. No, I mean, Betty. Betty held it on the head. Cumberland, you know, they are very likely going to be working with us in the future. We have an advisor from Cumberland on our board. It was really, again, I think given the amount of transparency that they have tried to provide to the SEC, there's nothing else to say other than it's sad.
A Hope for Better Regulation
It really is. Hopefully, you know, excuse my french, but you know, the federal government can pull their heads out of their asses and figure out a way to sensibly bring some regulation to the space that doesn't hinder growth, doesn't hinder innovation. Right now, we're, you know, we're kind of stuck in this cyclical loop where nobody who is working on projects in United States wants to bring them here. It sucks. You know, I'm a, you know, I'm not like some die hard patriot, but, you know, it's still, it is my home, right. And it's. It's very sad to see.
Using Truflation for Indexing
And so with the EV index, the commodity index out at trufflation, how do you guys, and this could be there for Greg or Austin out at Sphinx, how do you plan to use truflation? So, you know, the, Stefan in his opening mentioned, what is the source of truth, right. How do we define a source of truth, especially for a derivative that isn't tokenized? Now, we've kind of come up with an internal narrative for real world assets, and we've divided them into short tail and long tail.
Defining Real-World Assets
Short tail are, you know, rwas that ultimately have what could be seen as a short shelf life from production to consumption. You know, energy, agriculture, these types of things, they don't exist for very long in the grand scheme of things. And tokenizing a sufficiently liquid market is very difficult when you have that kind of on ramping and off ramping of the actual asset that underlies the token.
Utilizing Trueflation Indices
So we really plan to use trufflations indices, not just, you know, the EV index, but all sorts of data that they provide to help us price and build tradable product. You know, if you look into, you know, the EV index, you know, you have silicon, you have lithium. There's so many other base assets that don't have a home and don't have a global liquidity pool for traders to access, especially with the advent of artificial intelligence and other, I guess, industries that trueflation can tap into, we're really excited to start listing products that are unique in addition to the run of the mill products that the CME and ice offer now.
Engagement in Trueflation Spaces
Yeah. And if you haven't already, get out to SDD, Sphx, IO, and check out their platform. It really is something. You are listening to trufflation spaces. We've got an all star panel here that includes founders and CEO's and trading experts. We want your questions, we want your comments. So do request to speak, or if you'd rather not speak, get into the thread here and ask away. Go ahead, Stefan.
Next Steps and Community Support
Yeah, just sort of. On that note, how do you see Sphinx as the next steps and where you mentioned Cumberland earlier? Where do you see and what are your sort of next, let's say over the course of six months? What are sort of the next steps for you and maybe how can the community help? Or what would you like from the community and. Yeah, just curious.
Sphinx as a Blockchain and Exchange
That's a really great question, Stephan. Thank you. So we are not just an exchange, but also a blockchain. We are trying to encourage other financial applications to come build with us. We are in testnet now. We're looking for validators. We are looking for testers on the actual exchange itself. You know, the blockchain and the exchange are holistically separated from a regulatory point of view. You know, we have it on good authority from Clifford Chance, as well as the FCA, that we can actually operate a permissioned blockchain and use it as a settlement layer without running afoul of any current securities laws. So it's really exciting that, you know, we will be able to, you know, ultimately incentivize the community to come help us.
Community Engagement with Zlee Campaign
You know, if you haven't seen our Zlee campaign, please go take a look. That's probably the best, you know, the best place to ultimately start. I was going to mention the Zwe. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. Austin, take it away, man. Yeah. I mean, if you guys want to get involved, the best thing you can do right now is go to SpHX IO and just take a look through our materials there. Well, we will have docs live for you guys to look at here in the coming week. So we're really excited to present those to you.
Joining the Testnet and Community Growth
But the biggest thing you can do to be a part of the movement that we have going on here, especially with trueflation, is to join our testnet. We are going to have a slew of incentivizations out for people who come in early to participate with us. Our community on Telegram is growing. We are about 10,000 strong of people who are excited for the launch of our token as well as the launch of our product and the Testnet going live for everyone to join in on. So please come check out SpHx IO. Sign up for the testnet, join the Telegram. Hit me up on Twitter. Hit Greg here up on Twitter. We're nice guys. We don't bite of. Let's hang out. Let's talk.
Market Liquidity and the Economy
Yeah. Yeah. It really is a great site. Again, we'd like your questions and comments. We want you to participate. Get in there, mix it up with the fellas. Looking at the sort of the broader us and world economy, there's a lot of liquidity out there. Does that excite you? I mean, it has to. With maybe the fed in a cutting cycle, there's bound to be more of that filthy fiat frothing about. Does that bode well for your platform?
Building a Disruptive and Competitive Product
We try to distance ourselves from thinking too much about where we are in the cycle. We're not trying to catch a falling knife. We're not trying to time our token launch. That's not really in our game plan. Our game plan is to build a disruptive, competitive product and trust that the value will speak for itself. You know, we've seen a lot of really great projects come out of bear markets. So these types of things, you know, they ultimately don't scare me. I don't think they should scare any team out there, assuming you are building something disruptive.
Navigating Economic Challenges
And we, you know, yes, the Fed could continue to cut rates, but also you have this yield curve inversion. I still think we could be on the edge of a recession, if I'm being perfectly honest about it. And really, we haven't seen that big spike in crypto prices yet, which is a blessing and a curse. Everybody wants to go back to the old days and see these outlandish, excuse me, outlandish and outrageous, you know, kind of growth in our tokens. But, you know, the. The fact that we have less volatility now is actually good for the industry as a whole.
Bringing Institutional Money and Value Drivers
It's providing a bedrock of trust. It's bringing institutional money. You know, at the end of the day, what's going to bring the next trillion dollars on chain? I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, unless something very radical happens, it's not going to be retail. So this whole concept of trying to time the cycle, we believe our product and our team and everything that we're doing will drive the value more than any, I guess, cyclical dynamics.
Real World Assets in Crypto
And how much of the hype train is RWA? I mean, it seems like that's been the talk for, geez, I don't know. Stephan was talking about it earlier in his comments that it's been the talk of the town in our space for at least a solid year and a half, maybe even longer. It seems like now RWA is finally, with the advent of platforms like Sphinx, finally coming to fruition, right? Yeah, one, you know, one would hope so. And, you know, RWA is just another wrapper of a word.
Continued Growth and Tokenization
Around existing industries that have been there far longer than crypto has. You know, crypto loves to make, you know, new words for things that already exist. We, we're excited about it. Don't get me wrong, we're very excited to see great projects, great tokenization projects, starting to actually tokenize some of these long tail real world assets. Eventually we may start to build derivatives out of those, but we do our, again, back to our thesis about these short tail assets.
Tokenization and the Future
We're not of the camp that they're necessarily ripe for tokenization. Things like 1235 year bonds, real estate, these types of things are excellent for tokenization simply because of the lifespan that they have. So you kind of, again, I do have to make this divide. I encourage everybody to kind of like build a mental model around it and, you know, certainly start to check out other projects. You know, I mean, Blackrock's tokenizing, you know, money market funds.
Great Projects in the RWA Space
Centrifuge is doing a lot of really great work. There's a ton of really great projects out there right now. I think this just on that note, I think just really RWA, it's such a big bucket. And in a way, what we're looking at, just the simple tokenization of bonds has been a great first step, drive momentum. But as interest rates come down, you know, those are going to go away really quickly, right.
Exploring New Opportunities
And so people are going to look for yield with the risk reward ratio associated with that yield elsewhere, right. And people that are inherently comfortable with trading products that are intrinsically necessities for economies are going to be the next sort of frontier, if you look at it. And if I can provide ten x improvement in terms of cost benefits associated with that, driving greater yield, if I can provide ten x improvement on direct interactions and tradability associated with that, then ultimately that is going to be a whole new frontier that I think we need to look at.
The Silicon Revolution
I mean, you just brought up earlier, right? I mean, the things like trading silicon, right? I mean, we're looking at a whole silicon revolution. We just saw Tesla announced robots coming to market at $30,000 a robot or twenty cents a kilometer, right. And stuff like that. You look at that and silicon is going to be a huge driver. Energy needs to power these data centers. Where do I get that from?
Locking in Future Energy Requirements
How do I buy my future requirements of energy today so I can lock in my cost basis associated with that? And how do I do that as a supplier into a large portion of these developers that are building out in those specific categories? And it's not just silicon, it's across the whole gamut. And that's where I think finding a niche, dominating that niche and then scaling out from that is really, I think, where the focus should be.
Evolving Market Opportunities
And just what are your thoughts on that? I mean, Greg, I mean, you've been this, and I love the fact that you've actually come from the mining space and trying to optimize the generation and the cost of electricity by leveraging gas flares and building up mining close to these far out spaces. How do you see that evolving and sort of the near term opportunity in that?
Future Focus on Energy Trading
And where is that sort of market opportunity right in the next six months beyond the technology that you're building? You know, it's a really interesting question. We, you know, we are very focused, as you said, on being the best exchange to trade energy. Energy comes in many different forms, right.
Trading Energy Dynamics
That this concept of an EV index is fairly mind blowing when you start to take a step back and think about the ramifications that could have on our industry. And again, hats off to you for being so creative with things like that. I think it's really going to pay enormous dividends as you know, as we kind of enter the next decade.
Finding Alpha in Trading
And, you know, we. Trading energy is no different than trading anything else, right? At the end of the day, it is all about finding alpha. It's all about finding an edge. When we started to really get into the energy trading business, what we ultimately found was it's a fairly tight knit industry. The high table of finance that is ultimately controlling this industry made up of a few players that are ultimately offloading risk to everybody else.
Understanding Market Controllers
We, you know, and at the end of the day, the energy producers are always going to control the dynamics of the market, right? They create, you know, the base commodity. They set the price same as bitcoin mining, right? You know, whoever is actually mining that token, you know, has a choice on what to sell it for. So we, you know, and where's the opportunity in this?
Responsive Trading Opportunities
Which I think was really your question. You know, the opportunity is for existing traders. You know, we want to offer a higher leverage, lower margin environment that really helps you control your cost basis as well as I capture new opportunities. Even the fact that we can trade 24/7 is a huge advantage compared to the CME, where you get these big jumps in price between the open and close of the exchange.
Energy Trading as a 24/7 Business
I think even that as kind of a fundamental modality when you start to consider energy trading, which is on the production side, that's a 24/7 business. Sunday comes, you don't you know, it's not like your lights go out or you don't go to the gas station. Ultimately, the industry in and of itself deserves a trading platform that can keep up with the demands of it as a physical asset.
Price Discovery and Incumbents
I want to flesh that out a bit because Betty talked about incumbents like Merck and Ice and frankly, I'm hoping you guys get the price discovery thing down so that we can get financing for. I was promised jetpacks and flying cars and Elon's got robots. I need robots. I need help immediately. But going back to the incumbents here, just between us fellas, because no one else is listening, right.
Challenges Against Established Platforms
Just, just us group here, is it really poised? I mean, do you. It sounds very ambitious to take on like a Merc and an ice and these incumbents. What, what's. You sort of spoken this already, but I do want to drill down on it a bit. What, what are you going to offer that they're not offering?
Creating a New Exchange
So at the end of the day we are, you know, we're offering what could be seen as a change. You know, at the end of the day, every single trader we've talked to, and we've talked to a lot of them, we actually just got back from energy trading week in London, which was a fantastic event. You know, we had an event with, you know, we, I think we had 400 traders from all across the show up.
High Demand for New Exchanges
Yeah, about 450. Yeah. And everybody wants a new exchange. Everybody wants it. Ultimately, what we can offer that the CME can't is it's mobility.
Mobility and Market Infrastructure
At the end of the day, it's mobility. The CME is built on old banking rails. It's not built on chain. And that is a now, in this particular time and place, a fundamental flaw. We've seen, you know, we've seen neo banks, we've seen all sorts of assets start to move on chain. And this is simply the next evolution. And, you know, the CME ice face, they simply can't do it, right? There's no way they're ever going to be able to offer a bitcoin oil future, right, where two parties can come in with bitcoin and speculate on the price of oil. There's. At the end of the day, we are offering, you know, we're offering. It sounds, it sounds silly, right? But we're offering the ability to listen to our customers and provide solutions that our competitors can't. And it's.
The Problem with Duopolies
Greg, if I may, I started to cut you off, but really quickly, I think what also really needs to be pointed out is that when you have a duopoly like this, they can continue to raise your commissions, they can continue to raise your data fees, and so it just gets more and more expensive. And, like, that's. That's right. There is fundamental of what Sphinx is bringing to the table, never mind all of the other beautiful things that Greg is talking about. But, you know, when I was just talking about this the other day, like, when I was a trader and the CME raised our rates by a quarter of a penny. A quarter of a penny. You guys, it cost my firm over $6 million. So we've gone so far from that. And that's. Never mind. You got to pay for your front end. You got to pay for your data. Charts are separate. You've got your back office, your bank, or your FCM, your clearing firm, whatever.
Eliminating Middlemen
So there's a lot of that middlemen and a lot of those expensive, increasingly more expensive layers that sphinx is eliminating. Betty's just mapped because I asked for a in office jacuzzi, and supposedly that was too much. I'm sorry. All round bullish on Betty here. Yeah, we. We're big Betty fans here, to be perfectly honest. She's provided our business a tremendous amount of insight as we've gotten further into this partnership. Go ahead. No, I was just going to piggyback off her and say, at the end of the day, yes, it very much comes down to bottom line. And the beauty of being able to, I guess, you know, build a new piece of software instead of work under a monolith is, you know, the computing industry as a whole has come a very long way.
Transitioning to New Technology
I'm an electrical computer engineer. I studied distributed computing, and, you know, while I was in university. And if you look at how fast things like Moore's law have accelerated the human race and ultimately, you know, systems like this, it's. You know, it's. It's just the CMe's time. Right? It's. It's their time. At the end of the day, every. You know, there are very few companies that manage to transcend the. I guess, like, the trade off between, you know, being a monolith and then being scrappy and small enough to be able to disrupt. There. There are certainly, you know, no one here is going to live forever, unfortunately. But it would be really interesting to look out the next hundred years and see what the next big, disruptive piece of technology is going to be as a whole.
Reflecting on the Industry
Right. But again, computing has come so far that it's you know, it's. To me, we looked at this industry, I was amazed that no one had, you know, no one had managed to actually create something that was disruptive. Right. Even when we started, you know, integrating and trading on the CME, were like, this is, you know, for the, one of the most liquid and largest trading markets in the world, this is absolutely archaic. It's insane. Wow. Yeah. And I love the notion that you're. The old fashioned notion that you're going to listen to your customers. they're actually going to, you know, try to forward their concerns, and that's right up my alley. So you are listening to triflation spaces. We're talking with the pretty incredible team from Sphinx, SpHX IO perpetual trading platform, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 whatever.
Engaging with the Audience
Whenever you want to trade, they've got you, and we're lucky to be partnering with them. We also want your questions. We're heading into the final few minutes here. There was a question that came up and then it dropped off. But, you know, do get in here, get in the threads. We're ready for. You've got some pretty heavy hitters up here. Stefan, did you have any kind of final questions or statements, comments about the partnership and kind of what you hold out for it? No, I mean, I think I've mentioned sort of why we've done it pretty vocally already. And I'm just super excited to work on these next six months, really bring these products to market and grow the trading volume around these products.
Market Opportunities and Future Insights
I mean, they're going to come from traditional players, but I think we'll also see sort of maybe more non traditional players enter into this market as two things unravel. Right. Number one is the benefits associated with it, and maybe three things the education in the market. But also as more and more small medium businesses begin to realize the importance of understanding this and getting access to this directly and bringing some of the expertise closer to their own internal operations. And so that's really what I'm excited about and where we want to go. And if they're not going to be the traditional companies that we've seen in the past, they will be then maybe web, two companies, sort of more tech oriented companies.
Technological Integration and Market Demand
As tech overall and software savviness overall starts and financial awareness grows. All of these aspects are going to require a greater open market, and accessibility and ease of use are going to be core features that people are going to want to work with. Assuming that you already have the fundamental, you know, trust layer built out. And, you know, we're all working to build Lindy. And the stronger, the longer we're around, the greater the Lindy, the greater the trust and the greater advantage, the advantages that we have as we work together to build that Lindy, and we can't do that on our own. Very nice.
Listener Engagement and Regulatory Discussion
And we've got a question here from a listener, Tim, to speak. You're up with the guys from Sphinx. Hey, guys, I had a question for Sphinx. Well, kind of two questions and one. The first one is, do you guys plan to have your network here accessible to us traders day one? And then two, do you also, are you guys noticing a shift in regulatory speak? So. So to speak. I noticed that kind of both parties. Sorry, that's my son. Are both. They're both kind of shifting on the. The crypto side of things. First, Donald Trump kind of said day one that he's going to invest in bitcoin, and then Kamala did a shift here a couple weeks ago, not.
Regulatory Challenges and Future Prospects
Not to get into either candidate, but just noticing a shift in the broader market. So, to answer your first question, we do not see a timeline where we will be able to offer the exchange in the US. You know, the reality is, working with the SEC and the CFTC to do something like this seems like more trouble than it's worth at this juncture. Now, hopefully things settle down and, you know, that the overall rhetoric changes such that we might be able to do this, but at least as of now, it's not necessarily on our roadmap. Now, we are a part of a program with the Financial Conduct Authority in London called the Innovation Pathways program. This kind of fast tracks us for regulation, allows us direct access to regulators.
Navigating Regulatory Frameworks
They took a look at our business and said, hey, we think we can regulate this. We want you to come to London and build this thing. So hopefully that could be a blueprint for, you know, the US to ultimately launch something like this. But, yeah, it's. As of now, it's. It's very difficult for me to look into the crystal ball and see a future there. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. They put on a clinic, the guys from Sphinx, Greg Perrin, the CEO you just heard from, and Austin Durgy, the CMO. We really have appreciated their time.
Parting Thoughts and Future Goals
For those that want to kind of follow up on the partnership and all things Sphinx, Austin, where can they find your guys and keep up with you? Sure. Yeah. The best place to find us will either be through our telegram group chat. We like to have fun in there that can be accessed through our twitter. You can message me personally or you can go to our website and you can join us for Testnet SpHx IO. That's the best place to go and be a part of what we're doing here. They are hustlers. One of the first things Stephan said to me were talking about Sphinx was, hey, man, we got this partnership announcement coming up.
Showcasing Drive and Commitment
These dudes are badass. So you have proved that and then some on this hour. So we do appreciate all of that. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Do get out to Sphinx SPHX IO, take their testnet for a drive, hang out in the telegram and be a part of the future. It's exciting. And let's go ahead and agitate for, gosh, just England is ahead of us. My goodness. Yeah, but that's, you know, I appreciate the sobriety because there's every incentive for Greg and Austin to b's you and go, oh, yeah, we're, the future's bright.
Closing Insights and Acknowledgments
We're going to be here. But they give it to you straight. No chaser, man. They tell you straight up, you know, they're going elsewhere. We're taking our best and brightest and we're kicking them across the pond to the brits. No lessen. Anyway, appreciate you. Appreciate you guys coming on. And best of, hey, I'm half british, remember? No, but if you look back historically, the Brits have actually been always leading in terms of financial innovation and regulation, right? I mean, they historically created the whole derivatives market whilst it was banned in the US.
Historical Context of Financial Innovation
You know, they created the legal framework to enable a lot of that. And ultimately, you know, all the us houses set up shop in London, in the city with this legal framework that was enabled for them to then operate and test the market bullet it, use the sales arms that they had internationally before the regulatory framework in the US became amenable and acceptable to then actually build out distribution channels in the US for those products. So there is history there. Yeah. And Fleet street is eating, Wall street is eating your lunch. You're losing to these great guys here. So again, we appreciate the time, the effort. We are definitely rooting for you and we'll see you next time, everybody.
Gratitude and Looking Forward
Thanks again for listening in. Thank you so much, trufflation team. We sincerely appreciate you. Yep, thanks. Thanks, trueflation guys. Thanks, Stefan. Thanks, Betty. Thanks, man. Everybody be in touch.
