Space Summary
The Twitter Space Out of Order hosted by OrderlyNetwork. In the 'Out of Order' space, participants delved into the realm of cloud liquidity and the freedom of trading anything, anywhere. Through discussions on innovation, adaptability, risk management, and market dynamics, the space highlighted the transformative power of decentralized platforms and efficient order execution in modern trading. Traders learned the importance of trade diversity, exploring new asset classes, and understanding market trends for informed decision-making. With a focus on resilience, growth, and technological advancements in trading, the 'Out of Order' space provided valuable insights for both novice and experienced traders alike.
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Space Statistics
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Questions
Q: How does cloud liquidity impact traditional trading?
A: Cloud liquidity revolutionizes trading by providing access to a wide range of assets and seamless order execution.
Q: Why is trade diversity important in the marketplace?
A: Trade diversity ensures market resilience, fosters growth, and reduces dependency on specific assets or markets.
Q: What role does innovation play in evolving trading practices?
A: Innovation drives the transformation of trading strategies, technologies, and market approaches, keeping traders competitive.
Q: How do decentralized platforms benefit trading?
A: Decentralized platforms offer transparency, security, and autonomy to traders, promoting fairer and more efficient trading experiences.
Q: Why is risk management crucial in trading?
A: Effective risk management minimizes potential losses, preserves capital, and helps traders navigate unpredictable market conditions.
Q: How can traders adapt to changing market dynamics?
A: Traders must stay informed, monitor trends closely, and adjust strategies promptly to capitalize on market opportunities.
Q: What are the advantages of exploring new asset classes?
A: New asset classes provide diversification, potential for higher returns, and exposure to emerging markets, enhancing trading portfolios.
Q: Why is efficient order execution vital for traders?
A: Swift and accurate order execution reduces slippage, improves trading outcomes, and ensures timely entry and exit from positions.
Q: How does understanding market dynamics impact trading decisions?
A: Comprehensive knowledge of market trends, volatility, and factors influencing asset prices empowers traders to make informed and strategic trading choices.
Q: What are the key traits of successful trading strategies?
A: Successful trading strategies incorporate risk management, market analysis, discipline, and adaptability to mirror changing market conditions effectively.
Highlights
Time: 00:15:42
Innovation in Trading Technologies Exploring cutting-edge technologies shaping the future of trading practices.
Time: 00:25:19
Decentralized Trading Platforms The benefits of decentralized platforms for traders seeking transparency and control.
Time: 00:35:07
Effective Risk Management Strategies Insights on managing risks, preserving capital, and optimizing trading outcomes.
Time: 00:45:33
Diversification through New Asset Classes Expanding trading horizons by investing in diverse and emerging asset categories.
Time: 00:55:11
Market Analysis for Informed Decisions The significance of market analysis in shaping informed and strategic trading choices.
Time: 01:05:28
Adaptability and Flexibility in Trading The importance of adapting trading strategies to changing market conditions and trends.
Time: 01:15:05
Efficient Order Execution Optimizing trading performance through swift and precise order execution strategies.
Time: 01:25:44
Trade Resilience and Market Growth Strategies for building resilient trading portfolios to withstand market fluctuations.
Time: 01:35:22
Technological Advancements in Trading Investigating how technology advancements are enhancing trading efficiency and accessibility.
Time: 01:45:18
The Role of Trade Diversity Exploring the benefits of diverse trading practices for broadening market exposure and reducing risks.
Key Takeaways
- Cloud liquidity transforms traditional trading methods.
- The 'Out of Order' space emphasizes limitless trading opportunities.
- Trade diversity is crucial for market resilience and growth.
- Innovation drives the evolution of trading practices.
- Adaptability to changing market conditions is essential for traders.
- Exploration of new asset classes expands trading horizons.
- The 'Out of Order' space highlights the importance of decentralized trading platforms.
- Efficient order execution is key to successful trading strategies.
- Understanding market dynamics leads to informed trading decisions.
- Risk management plays a vital role in trading practices.
Behind the Mic
Initial Test and Greetings
Test, test. Can everyone hear me? Test, test. Hello. Hello. How are you? Ifi. Yeah, good. How are you? Good, man. Good to have you. We'll get started in, I don't know, about ten minutes. Yep. Cool. Hey. Hello, everyone. Blues. What's up, man? Hey, good to hear you, Drew. Good. Good to hear you. Good to hear you. We're basin. I remember you told me basin out of states, right? Which area? Brooklyn, baby. Oh, I love Brooklyn, man. Got it. I'm a big fan of New York. You got to come through. Did I hear you're in Austin? Did I make that up or. No, we've been to. We've been to Austin. Yes. For consensus. Evie and myself. That was two years ago, I think three years ago.
Discussion about Locations
But you're based regularly in Singapore, right? No. So. Karthik, in Singapore. So if you and myself in. Based in Taiwan. Oh, Taiwan. Okay. Okay, cool. Into Taiwan. Karthik, how are you doing, man? Well, thank you. I can hear you loud and clear. Good to see you. Awesome. Great. Our social media team are asking if you will be sending them a co-host request. Do they need to join the session first? Yeah, they gotta join the session, and then I'll shoot them a co-host request. Okay, cool. Sounds good. I'll just let them know. Doing good. Otherwise, looking forward to the session. Thanks for ensuring the organization has been very smooth. Yeah, man, of course. It's great to have you.
Sharing Personal Stories
Did I hear right, you tore your ACL? Did I make that up or. No, no, you are very close. It wasn't ACL. It was meniscus. So, right next door to the ACL, but it was a pretty bad injury. I am currently on crutches and wearing a brace and recovering, but luckily managed to get through token week and meet all of the orderly team in prison, which is great. Wow. How'd you do, may I ask? Like, were you playing basketball, football, soccer? Got a bad day. All right. Yeah, so it's, when I went to the. The surgeon, he said 90% of such cases he sees are from people playing football, and then the other 10% are basketball or hockey, so. Yeah. Yeah. There you go, man.
Injury Discussion Continues
Okay. Don't mess with Karthik on the football pitch. You know, he's playing rough. No, no, I consider myself, you know, like, the skilled guy, and someone else had to take me up, so. So you're too good. That's what it was. You're too good. Yeah, let's see. But, yeah, I've been told to stick to, you know, racket sports or tennis paddle, etc. Going forward. So. Yeah, you can't get tackled. I don't think so. That's good unless you get into a brawl, you know, but other than that. Yeah, that's right.
Co-host and Team Updates
Cool. I think our Google team have joined. There we go. Sweet. Yeah, they joined. I think we're just waiting for Altcoin, Sherpa and Medoji. Those are two Medoji's on our team. Sherpa is a close friend. He'll be talking about some trading business after your section, so we'll give them a couple more minutes to join. Sounds good. Hey, Drew, do you want me to have a go playing some kind of intro outro music? Yo, do you. Can you. Well, I've got some here on my computer, right. And I'm. Is it playing right now? Is it playing right now? I was like. I was, like, freaking out. I was like, do I hear music?
Sound Checks and Event Kickoff
No, but I could. Okay, I'll. I'll play it right now and you can tell me if you can hear it. Let's see. Wow. Oh, nice. You're always the best. Wait, wait, Annabelle, are you just holding up the phone to the speaker? Yeah, 100%. So I can just play this now and I won't talk. And when you say the word, I will just turn my mic off. All right. You've earned a. You've earned a forever co-host role for finally figuring that out. That's tremendous. I'm happy to be the official dj. That is fun. Yeah. DJ Annabella. Love it.
Welcoming Participants
Yes, we can. Madoji. Good. Hey, how's it going? Ketal. Movie amigo. Chilling, baby. Listening to DJ Annabella on the ones and twos. Just getting you all in a nice, relaxed date. So you can tell us all your secrets, you know? Yeah, no, I'm very relaxed right now. AI Google. Yeah. All right, we got sherp in the house, too. What's up, sherp, babe, let me make you a speaker. What up, Sherpenne? All right, DJ Annabella, cut the music.
Session Introduction
Thanks much to Annabella for doing the extremely technical lift of holding up music to a speaker. That's only the best at orderly network. For all of our listeners out there, let's go ahead and get it started. Friends, countrymen, lend me your ears. I want to say thank you to our numerous co-hosts, numerous guests for another episode of out of order. Let me just do a quick say hi to everyone. Just make sure we're all here and just say what's up. Let's go down the list here. Sherpa.
Guest Introductions
What's up, baby? Where are you calling from today, yo? Hey, I'm coming from Puerto Rico, man. Okay. Moy bueno, love it. Love to see you again. It's great to have you here. Yes, sir, we know you're there. You're in Dubai right now. Here I am in Dubai, Habibi. Oh, great. It's great to have you, sir. Otterly, the Irish man in London. Hello. How's it going? I was thinking during your setting, a president here with the amount of people in these calls growing every week, high. Growth, that's what it is.
Closing Remarks
We're going to have like a hundred person call, 100 hosts one time. That's what I'm going for here. A decorate in two weeks' time probably. Yeah, no, pretty much, yeah. Let's see here. Saturn, what's up, man? Hello, everyone. GM Jim. Guys. Jim, Saturn calling from Nigeria. Is that right? You made it back home safe and sound? Yeah. Legos Nigeria. Yeah. Legos in the house. Great to have you, Saturn. Annabella, the digital nomad. Every time I talk to Annabella, she's in a different country and she is in Vietnam.
Introduction and Greetings
So blues and myself, both in Taiwan. Good to be here. What's up? What's up? Great to have you. Blues. How you doing, man? Hey, everybody doing good? So calling from Taiwan. I love it. And we got Karthik on crutches in Singapore. GM, GM, good people. Yes indeed. Dialing in from Singapore. And for all of you that were at token, you'll have heard it a lot. Greetings from Singapore La. Great. That's great to have you, man. I hope I didn't forget about it. We have so many people, it's hard to remember, but I think we got everyone.
Episode Overview
So ladies and gentlemen, we got another episode of out of Order packed agenda. First we're going to go talk to Team Google about our really interesting announcement. We've got blues Carthagin ethy on the line. We've got Madoji who's our internal AI brain. Then after Google, we're going to pick altcoins, sherpas, mind about market moves right now. Alcoin, Sherpa. Help my bags, man. What the hell am I going to do right now? You're going to hold through the hard times. Yeah, you're telling me. And then last but not least, we got Saturn on the line. Saturn, for those of you who don't know, is our head of community here at orderly. We've recently relaunched our community programs. So we're going to let Saturn go through the details about what that entails and how you can get involved if you're out there and listening.
Collaboration with Google Cloud
So without further ado, let's talk about Google Cloud and orderly networks. So Madoji blues Karthik ifi, first question for you. How have Google Cloud and orderly network collaborated so far? Give me sort of like the context here for what has happened to date. Yeah, I think I can take that question. So hi everyone. So blues here. I'm covering web three across airpower region, closely working with especially Midoji and myself and we've been talking about this idea for quite a long time. I think that was maybe six months ago, I think. And then because at the time there was sort of AI booming period, and I just happened to check on rent, which is the founder of orderly network interview and YouTube, and I found that the whole concept of orderly network has been providing really fascinating concept about providing liquidity to the ecosystem and the developers and traders.
Google's Focus on AI Integration
That was quite interesting to me. So Melody also closely worked on us saying hey, we should do something interesting. I said, hey, why not? So I think Google has been really focused on AI recently. So we just bump into we should do something integrating with AI and only network and bring something interesting to the ecosystem. So that's how things coming up. Okay, very interesting. Help me out here, blues. I know orderly network, but what specific Google cloud technologies are developers using in creating these AI agents? What are they doing in terms of simplifying the development process? Yeah, I would definitely love to hear more, but I think there's an expert here. It's better to answer this than me.
Google AI Studio Initiatives
I mean, I'll hand it this one to ifi. Hey yeah, so definitely that you know that Google have been in the space for data for AI for such a long time and then we actually came up with even, just even for AI with two different versions for easily those developers can jump in to develop any crazy ideas. We have both the Google AI studio, which is easier for developer, you can anyone having a Gmail account, you can easily jump in and start to play around the Gemini APIs, having some interactions and then to put on some prompt, put on some configurations to customize the way the AI is going to bring up the questions and also want your AI to jump into any topics.
Vertex AI Studio and Data Integration
For example, what we're going to do here is the boundary programs that we want developers to focus on creating some of ways to find a better strategies to invest into something. Okay. In Kryptos. And also that we also have a Vertex AI studio, which is a more enterprise version comparing to what we have from the Google AI studios. It's having more integrations with all the rest of technologies that we have around Google Cloud. And of course, other than AI stuff, data is one of the very important thing. So including all the data coming from orderly, we will also have data which sits in the bigquery, which is a powerful data analytics tool, which is already having quite decent amount of this blockchain data as well.
Bounty Program Insights
So I think those will be the great easy starting free things that we can do with developing something with the AI stuff. I gotcha. I gotcha. You know, I'm gonna skip around here. Madoji, would you kind of help give people an overview of, like, what our bounty program initiative was? I think that might be helpful. We put out a press release a while ago. We had a great event at Token 2049 in Singapore recently with the Google team here and several others. But Manoji, would you mind kind of sharing an overview of what that entails and any other specifics people might be interested in? Sure. So, okay. The bounty program is basically an opportunity for developers to build an AI agent on top of orderly that has to trade autonomously.
Encouragement for Innovation
So that was the initial bounty, right. We were encouraging everyone to come to us building a strategy that it's able to predict what the market is going to do it in an autonomously way. They can use whatever they want. I mean, they can use whatever data feeds or data sets they can take. In order to build that strategy, we are trying to reward those users or participants that are creating something innovative that is able to do that. Basically build a predictor. The goal, or the end goal in this case is to, apart from having retail users and market makers on top of orderly, also being able to onboard a swarm of daily active users that are going to be aa agents.
Evaluation Criteria for AI Agents
So when you come and trade on top of orderly, you will be trading against other people, and at the same time, you will be also trading against agents. That's cool. What's the criteria we're using to evaluate these AI agents? This can be for the Google team. This could be for Doji. What are you looking for in terms of innovation and profitability? I can take it. Actually, we have two different things. The first criteria is, are you able to make money with your agent. So profitability in this case, we will run the strategies and the agents for two weeks.
Further Evaluation and Originality
And those ones making more money in this case, they will be the winners in this category. And the second category is innovation. And that's what I said before, right. We are trying to encourage users to create something original. So we are rewarding those users that are able to take a few data sets and data feeds from different places. I don't know. They can, I don't know, monitor market sentiment using Twitter, or they can use coingecko or they can use GEICO. They can use whatever they have and build a predictor that is able to trade profitably during certain time. Right. And it's able to even iterate when the market is changing.
Feedback and Improvements
So yeah, those are the both categories. Does it have. Okay. Okay, thanks, Madoji. Back to the Google team. Google obviously has a lot of ability to attract web two developers to the web three space. Is that doable through this initiative? What kind of coding skills do you even need to participate? I can take this one. So happy to answer that. So, I mean, I think the first and most important thing with this bounty and huge credit to major and the team for sort of the ideation behind it as well, is that it has a real world use case and a lucrative one at that.
Developer Exposure to Web Three
Right. If you build a profitable trading agent, you can do really well with it financially. So it's going to be quite appealing to developers and builders and I think will be a great way to give them exposure to some of the obviously web three technologies. From a Google perspective, we obviously have a huge developer network, I think of over 2 million people around the world. So being able to tap into that developer network and show them that it's actually really straightforward and simple to get set up and running with a web three focus bounty is obviously something that we're going to be able to do.
Tools and Barriers in Transition
And I think touching on that last point as well as Ife has previously highlighted, we have a lot of easy to use tools which really lower the barrier to entry for building in Web three. And I think given the fact that we're partnering with Imperial and orderly here as well, we're giving you all of the tools sort of out the box that you can get up and running with building attribution. And what's sort of the next step where I gotcha? I believe that was Karthick. Right, Karthik, what's the next step? Like after the program? Like, what sort of feedback are you looking for? Is there possibility for like future versions of this bounty program? Like what's kind of after this bounty program?
Future Feedback and Development
Yeah, that's a great question. So I'll answer it in two parts in terms of the feedback. So were very closely with a partner called Stack up or intel hack as their rebranding and they've done a great job partnering with ourselves and with orderly, of course, to design the bounty, figure out sort of partnership and community outreach and facilitate engagement with developers. So that's during this phase of initial submissions and building and then actually reviewing submissions as well. And throughout the entire process we're gathering feedback from developers, of course, like engaging with people through discord, through X or Twitter and through whatever channels that we can actually interact with developers get feedback on what the challenges were to get up and running.
Implementation and Iteration
What was anything confusing? Tell us about how you found the judging and review process and all of these pieces of feedback. We take internally, review alongside with stackup and of course with orderly as well, and figure out how we can iterate going forward. We do realize that this is an exciting but also challenging bounty, so we want to know how we can best appeal and obviously get more developers into the ecosystem going forward. Cool, cool. And if they're making a ton of money, let me know how to do that. That'd be helpful. That's great. There's another partner here involved with this program.
Integration with Imperial's SDK
Right, Imperial, what's their SDK doing? I'm not as smart as you tell. Help me out with the SDK and how it's involved in these AI trading agents. Okay. Yes. Actually Imperial. Imperial has done a great job building this SDK. The main thing we had to solve when doing this bounty or were designing everything was okay. I want to onboard developers and I not only want to onboard web three developers, I also want to onboard web two ones. So we have to remove all the complexities and make the bounty creation, sorry, the agent creation as a streamlined as possible.
Meaningful Engagements
Right. So the framework that the imperial put together was exactly that. It's a framework that basically wraps all the orderly API and then enables you to create an agent, just defining your strategy using Python. You set your rules, you set your strategy, you train your machine learning model, you do whatever you want with your predictor. And then when it comes to interacting with orderly, it's just a few lines of code. It's like open a position on BTC, close the position, set limit order so you can communicate with orderly, with just a few lines of code.
Simulation and Strategy Creation
And apart from that you don't even need to put your money and start trading. The framework enables simulations and backtesting so the users can define a strategy. That could be, I don't know, I'm going to make it up. It could be every time the simple moving average crosses the price, then you're gonna buy, and every time you cross it again, you're gonna sell. You create a strategy with Python and then you just use the SDK to execute it or to simulate it. Right. And to check if that's a profitable strategy or not. So it's very easy to interact with orderly, thanks to that SDK.
Transitioning to Web Three Development
Okay. And kind of related to what you're saying, madoji, about the imperial SDK, related to what Karthik was saying about getting feedback from the developers. I want to open this question to Google and Madoji, which is like, what? I'm not a coder, I'm just a pretty face. I don't know how to code. I don't know what the concerns would be from being a web two coder to web three. What is the main hurdle there? Can you kind of help me understand? I'm coding in web two and I want to move to web three. What is generally the issues there, if any?
Web Two to Web Three Transition
Do you want to take this one first and then we can add on? Yeah, sure. So, basically, the feedback I've been getting is that usually web two developers are not familiar with blockchain and they have to. I mean, if they want to come and build something, they of course need to start learning, and the learning process is very slow. Right. So for them, it's a huge entry to the space. This is why we created this SDK and the framework, to build agents in an easy and streamlined way. That's the first thing. Right. And then tools. There are a bunch of tools for web two developers, but not all of them could be applied on web three.
Acknowledgment of Challenges
Those are the main two things that I've been getting in terms of feedback. Gotcha. Gotcha. Team Google, what do you think? I'd say those are similar challenges. I think that we've seen as well. Honestly, a lot of the time, the barriers to entry, so to speak, are more perceived than real. So from our perspective as an infrastructure provider, we try to provide the tools as we share to make it as easy as possible to get up and running. One main plug that I can provide is that we have a web three portal.
Ease of Transition to Web Three
So if you literally just search for Google Web three portal, it's something that we launched earlier this year and we showcased a token as well. But it has a lot of self learning and sort of tutorials that we set up to help you get up and running with building a variety of blockchain applications which sort of abstract away the need to directly interact with a blockchain. Right. We launched an RPC solution recently which is fundamentally just allowing you to access any on chain data through APIs. And at the end of the day, we want to make everything seem as familiar to any web two developer and sort of not have to worry that, oh, I'm actually interacting with the blockchain or building in this domain.
Future Directions
Gotcha. Gotcha. Guys, let's get really pie in the sky here. So you did a phenomenal job of explaining sort of how orderly and Google came together, what this bounty program is about, what you're trying to get from it. Where do we go from here?
AI and Crypto Integration
I'm not talking about the bounty program, but AI and crypto in general. I guess that's kind of two part questions like where do you see it next? Outside of derivatives moving to, and then as the space evolves just more broadly, where's AI next going to be the most applicable within crypto? I know that's a massively open ended question, but there you go. I'll pause there. Who wants to take that one first before I pick on you guys?
Impact of AI on DeFi User Experience
I can start. Okay, that's a big question, but I think that the AI is going to change probably the whole Defi and the old crypto maybe. Why? Because we, I mean, the user experience on crypto is not great. If you're a user and you want to play around with DeFi, you probably need to go to different platforms, move the money from here and there, bridge deposit, do, I don't know, a thousand different things in order to try all the different platforms, look for the best alternatives, obtain the best yields. So user experience right now is really bad if you compare it with web two. Right? So I think that one of the things that the agents are going to do is just that you're going to simplify everything.
Automation and Monitoring in Crypto
They are going to do everything under the hood, so you don't really need to do it or you don't even need to know how to do it. They can automate tasks like maybe looking for the most profitable strategy when it comes to providing liquidity, or they can automate things like your uniswap v three liquidity positions to make sure that they are on range. They could help you and even keep you away from making mistakes on crypto by monitoring your behavior, by monitoring the things that you're doing in 13 platforms. So I think that there is a very broad field that the AI is going to cover in the space, but I think that the overall goal is to improve the whole user experience and to make everything way more straightforward and simple for the users.
AI in Web3 and Learning Challenges
Yeah, that's my two things here. I like it. I like it a lot. Yeah. No, I mean, the user experiences horrifically complex sometimes at the moment. So that makes a ton of sense. Team Google, what do you think? Yeah, so if you hear. So I think definitely this, it's up to this point from melody as well. And there's a lot of different angles that we can jump into it with the AI to support web three because I mean, first web three itself, token itself, there's a lot of data, everything's transparent, things are decentralized. That's a good thing. But at the same time, it just bring up a lot more the gap for people to learn.
Strategies and Market Insights
So learning is definitely one of the angle. And later on, it's like how we can put those informations together, especially when you do want to do some tradings, you need a lot of information put together and making your strategy, making your actions to make the profit coming up later on. So those are all the things that AI will be easier to be here to jump into to help. So that's one of the reason why we found this program become really interesting for Google, because we wanted to see if there's chance that this can be really to put in together and then make something happen. So we are so looking to this kind of things to be having people to play around to see what would be the possibility and what can make it happen later on.
Market Conditions and Trading Sentiment
Awesome. Okay, well, this was a phenomenal overview of where the market is going in terms of the technological ramifications of AI and Defi. We're going to come back to it, but I do want to get a sense check on the market right now. So we talked about where the market's going, what's it doing right now, and for that we got to turn to the brains of the Degen universe, which is the one to only altcoin. Sherpa. Sherpa, what's going on, man? I don't think anyone really knows, honestly. If you look at actually like some top like leaderboard guys, like a lot of them, like a lot of people are losing money like in the last like few days. so I mean, I don't know really.
Current Market Trends
No, honestly, like we all thought that it was going to be October, but I mean, I think that a lot of all coin charts still look pretty good. Like I think you can still buy dips on some of them, but like I. Definitely not all of them, but honestly, yeah, nobody really knows. I mean like bitcoin still isn't within the 70 to like 50k range and there's like, I don't think there's going to be really any clarification until you see like a break of either one of those levels. Yeah. And one important programming note.
Trading Dynamics and Market Efficiency
Team google Madoji, sir otterly, Annabella Saturn. If you guys have questions, we're very informal here, so if you guys want to chime in about anything else we're discussing, by all means, feel free. Don't feel like you need to let me ramble on. And also, Sherpa, I don't know if you're paying attention. It sounds like we're all going to be out of a job in a couple of years because AI and Defi is going to take over all the trading gigs. Yeah, I mean it's possible, but I mean, let's hope the market continues to be inefficient for the most part. And it's not like Normie Stratfi. That wouldn't be any fun, let's be honest.
Trading Strategies and Advice
Yeah, yeah, it'd be less fun. It'd be less stressful too, but it'd be less fun. Like, I don't know how you trade. Like, are you, like, one of these technical guys that are, like, no. Pouring through the charts? Is it more like the vibe of a project? Like, say you're looking at a new alcorn. You're thinking about investing in. Like, what's the kind of the blueprint for you? I mean, there's, like, literally dozens or hundreds or thousands of different ways to trade. Like, I've talked to a lot of different traders that use a lot of different strategies.
Trading Experiences and Perspectives
Some use order flow or algos. Some use just trading. Like, technical analysis, price action. Like, there's a lot of different stuff. Like, I personally like to use a lot of, like, fundamentals along with technical analysis. That's personally, like, my. The way I trade. But there's dozens of ways to skin a cat, so lots of different ways you can do it. Yeah, yeah. What do you, what do you have? Do you have any advice for anyone out there listening? Like, let's break it down. For the newcomers out there, what's the advice?
Investment Versus Trading Approaches
Just stay the hell away for now? Or is it, you know, go somewhere safe like bitcoin, and just wait till things clear up? If you're a newbie out there, any. Any words of wisdom? I mean, I think that, number one, you just have to ask yourself, it's a trade, or if it's an investment. If it's an investment, that means you're going to hold something for a longer duration. If you're trading it, then obviously, like, you know, it's a whole different beast. And you should have, I mean, like, bottom line, you should. You should have your own strategies either way.
Market Outlook and Investment Strategies
I would say that for the most part, for, like, most average newcomers just understand that bitcoin probably will be hitting all time highs within the next, I don't know, four to six months. I don't know when it's going to happen. It could before then, too. And for the most part. Part, I think that most coins should be up in their USDT pair. Don't really think it's necessarily true in their bitcoin pair, but I think most altcoins should be up within that time period. So if you still are overall bullish on high timeframes, then you can probably just hold to the volatility.
Volatility and Trading Recommendations
Again, though, that's more of an investment standpoint. If you're trading, then, I don't know. Like, I mean, it's. It's very volatile right now. So unless you can hold through these big swings, then I would recommend that you generally just stay away, you know, unless you know what you're doing, in which case you don't need me to say that anyway. Okay. Fresh my memory. Like what's your, what's your story like? Like how did you get into crypto? Like, what was the path that brought you here today?
Personal Journey into Trading
I mean, my story is just very similar to everyone else's, honestly. It's just like a guy that liked crypto ran it up a lot in 2017 from not very much, lost it all in 2018. And then like a lot of me and my fellow traders in 2017, like raw traders, because that was like the only way to really make it back then. There wasn't defi, there wasn't nfts, there weren't like gaming, there wasn't really a whole lot you could do other than trade. So, like, one thing that I see a lot from 2017, class of 2017, is that a lot of us are traders, just like fundamentally.
Connecting with Fellow Traders
So, yeah, I would just say that, like, you know, my story's not any different than anywhere else. Just stuck with trading, you know, don't really have any professional background in it, just average retail trader. And that's what I continue to be. Just a guy that's just like anyone else. Clicking buttons. Oh, you modest guy. You know what? I'm going to put Sir Otterly on the spot. Sir Otterly, if you don't know, is one of our many valued friends and advisors.
Trends and Trading Innovations
He's an otter who talks with an irish accent, runs Otterly fans Twitter account. And I know you're a trader, Sir Ottilie over in the UK, what is one question you would ask the man, the myth, the legend, Alcorn Sherpa, when it comes to your own bags, your own trading, like anything you want to pick his brain on. Yeah, good question, good opportunity. I guess one question would be when you see kind of new chains and new narratives and trends arise. So we had obviously Solana, the big one this cycle, but then also more recently, things like. Tom, Tom, sorry, like are you trading that?
Market Adaptation and Ecosystem Analysis
Are you taking that into account with everything and then trying to get into say, memes early and these new kind of ecosystems that are emerging or how do you play that? Alcohol, are you there? I was going to say drew ship is actually trading right now. Sterk, are you trading right now? Oh, he became a listener somehow. Hold on, hold on. Let's get him back. I'm giving him the thing. Approve. Maybe he doesn't want to give away too much alpha. I clearly didn't play enough relaxing music because not everyone is ready to give up their secrets.
Ecosystem Shifts in Trading
Let's see. Did we get him back? I keep clicking approve, but Twitter is so janky, it might not be working. Okay, well, give Altcoin a second to come back. But in the meantime, why don't we kick it over to Saturn so he can start going through our community relaunch? Saturn. What's shaking, my man? Hello, guys. Oh, I call him back. What's up, dude? Yo, yo. I'm sorry, sir. Arterily, I only caught part of the question. Do you mind reframing it really quick? So sorry.
Trends and Strategies in Ecosystem Navigation
Don't worry. Yeah, no, I just. Yeah, it was just with regards to narrative shifts between different ecosystems. So, like, Solana moving to telegram moving to Tron, like, all those shifts that we get, particularly in this cycle, I think it's been quite evident even in older cycles as well, with things like there's a big shift to avalanche and stuff and even Cardano. Do you, do you try and play those ecosystem shifts and get into coins in those ecosystems early, or do you just try and stick closer to fundamentals regardless of the ecosystem that they're building?
Evaluating Narrative Shifts in Trading
No, I think that you have to go with narrative shifts. But the problem is that these days, it's very hard to tell which narrative has a bid. Like in the past and last cycle, it was much easier to decide, okay, what's the next hot hand or what's the next shift? And, like, in 2021, there was a lot more of a fundamental shift, too, whereas you could see, like, eth gas prices being really insane. And therefore, like, the alt layer one trade was really, like, obvious, right? Like, we all needed to go somewhere else to trade and gamble.
Predicting Future Trends in Crypto
And that's why the Sol Luna Avax meme was very. It was both very, like, fundamentally correct. Like, you know, we. We needed somewhere else to gamble. And then also it was just like, a good new, fresh narrative. These days, I think that it's quite a bit harder in general to, like, predict what's going to be the next, quote, unquote, narrative play. I think that you're going to see a lot of new ones coming out here with, like, potentially some of these big ecosystem plays.
Emerging Ecosystem Plays in Trading
Like, Eigen just launched. Like, Monad will come out, bear chain will come out. You're going to see some of these, like, maybe, like, alt layer one, or, like, you know, these layer two kind of plays, maybe play out like, kind of how some others did earlier this year. But it's really hard to get ahead of the curve. In my opinion, these days you could spend a long time accumulating like a, like, AI coin, but, like, you don't necessarily know when it's AI's turn, so to speak.
Navigating Trading Decisions
So, like, again, if you're, it's a bigger difference. You know, if you're trading or investing. If you're investing, you can just scale in, like, you can try to get ahead of the curve and just invest in a whole bunch of AI coins and know that AI as a narrative will pump eventually. You just don't know when that's going to be. And you can say the same thing for other things, like, you know, alt layer ones. You can say the same thing for memes. You can say the same thing for like deep in or Defi or something else.
Market Leaders in Memes and AI
For me personally, like, I still believe that memes are going to be like, memes and AI probably are going to be the leading sectors. And you already saw that a little bit too with some of the memes recently with like Popcat and Tao were like two really strong ones lately. Those were like kind of like some of the leaders. So, you know, I think that you'll probably see the same thing over time. Cool.
Discussion on NFTs
Do you think NFTs are done and we're all stuck with the profile pictures we have now? Come back. Come on, man. You were buying it for the art, right? You're doing it. You're doing it because it's your unique NFT. Yeah, it's, you own the rights.
NFT Expectations and the Market
Yeah, I'm just kidding. No, I think NFTs will eventually come back. I just don't know when. I like, I mean, if you think about it, like, they're pretty far down the risk curve. I think one issue with it is that because of, like, the meme popularity, like this current cycle, memes are just like, much. I mean, they're easier, they have more liquidity, they're easier to understand, they have more liquidity and there's easier to trade. So, like, it's quite possible that, I mean, I don't really think nfc will ever have the run they did in 2021. Could be wrong on that, but, like, 2021 was fricking insane. But I do believe that, like, they're going to come back, but again, they're pretty far down the risk curve. So you need to, like, have this crazy, like, gambling environment where like, there's a lot of fresh money coming in to the point where like, you know, people are comfortable paying, you know, ten, 110,000, 100,000, a million, 2 million on different nfts, you know, as a flex for that environment to really happen again.
Current Struggles of the Market
And as of right now, as we've seen with all coins right now, they've all really been struggling the last six months. So I don't think NFTs come back for a little bit, but I do believe that they will eventually have some sort of move. I've got a question for you, actually, shepherd. oh. Annabelle is here. I'm here. I'm here. What do you think it is that people actually like about meme coins? Like, do you think meme coins are kind of like the new NFT, but in like a super non committal way? Like, I've got this brain thought starting to happen. I don't know. I'm like, Is this reflecting, like, just a very, like, hands off kind of Gen Z attitude? Like, are nfts too serious now? What do you think? Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, let me ask you this. Like, why do you think most people get into crypto?
Motivations Behind Crypto Investment
To make money. Exactly. So, like, I think that it nfts. Well, I mean, memes actually strip away a lot of it for the most part. Most people are here to gamble. Most people are here to speculate. And people don't really have the time, energy, or interest in learning what the next, like, the thousandth modular Zk defi whatever project there is from a fundamental level, people just want to gamble. So, I mean, if you think about it, like, it's much easier to understand, like a different dog picture or the meta of a hippo or a different cool cat or something just idiotic. Or like, you know, a pepe coin. Right? Like, it's very easy. Just understand that the barrier to entry is much easier.
The Comparison of NFTs and Meme Coins
So NFTs have a lot of other benefits, too, versus, like, regular traditional investment coins. Like, you know, the quote unquote VC coins. Like, if you look at a lot of those coins, like, you know, they have like multi year vests and, like, they actually, like, if you're an early adopter of that coin, Jordy Alexander actually had a podcast yesterday on Empire podcast or something, where he actually talked about this. And I really agree. Like, early adopters for token holders or for token projects are actually usually punished quite a bit. Like, you know, if you were, if you bought, you know, some of these VC coins on day one, like Starknet, it's been down only forever. And once investors actually get their tokens, it's going to be down even more just because of the way that the public price and the private price is structured. It's such that early investors have such a big advantage and they just sell onto the market and you're stuck holding the bag.
NFTs vs VC Coins and Community Frustration
Whereas meme coins, although there are a lot of them that are insider games, usually the distribution is a lot better and usually like, it's not so much of an insider game versus VC coins. And I think that the public retail is just fed up with getting dumped on. I think a lot of them a just want to see their coins pump. So the answer to your question is mostly twofold. Number one, people are here just to gamble and speculate, and therefore it's much easier to understand a yemenite meme. And secondly, they are sick of doing these VC coins where, you know, even if you're an early adopter, you love the tech, you hold the bag and then seed investors are dumping for 100 x profits on you and you're just stuck with it. Yeah.
Reflections on the NFT Market
Gosh, that's such a good point. It seems kind of ironic, right? Because like two years ago in like full NFT hype phase, everyone was just like desperately and creatively trying to create utility plans for their nfts. And now it's like, no, I'll just buy a dog picture. There's a little tear going down my face right now. I used to work in nfts. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. But, yeah, I get what you mean about, like, them just being more easily digestible. I think that is also reflective of culture as well, though. We all just really like cat and dog pictures, right? I love that answer. You know what I mean? Like ZK sink. I'm not sure what that means. Mudang. I love that hippo. I'll buy a mudang coin. It makes a ton of sense to me.
New Community Program Overview
I want to quickly get over to Saturn so we can go over the community program. But Team Google and Medoji Altcoin Sherpa, I got two wrap up questions for you after we do a quick deep dive into the new community program. Relaunch. So, Saturn, are you there, my man? Yeah. Hello, guys. Jim. Gm Jim. So tell me what is going on with our community programs? We just launched an initiative. Can you kind of give me the overall of like, what people can do and how they can get involved and sort of like, why? Why we're doing this? Yeah. Guys, we just launched a new community program. Basically, we want to reward our community for every bit of their effort.
Engagement and Roles in the Community Program
If you can create a church, you can answer questions in our community, can help others with creation, guide new members, or promote our campaigns. We have everything for you. We have a role for you. Basically we have four roles in our community program. We have orderly crafter rule, we have orderly mentor and we have Dev Mazil and we have knights of the order. How can you get involved? To be one of our other crafter rule you need to create a check. Simply follow the requirement. Sorry.
Requirements and Rewards
Simply follow the requirements on the blue logged creates, send it to our community in a specific channel, create us up and then once we see it upon confirmation, we are going to give you the rule for the orderly mentor you need to offer happy hand in our community, consistently help others with questions, guide new members and promote our campaigns. We are going to have other elementor and for Jeff Maxi just need to contribute to our code base, develop tools of create or integration. We have one of our developer teams take charge of this show. So no need to be worried about it. So we have a reward pool.
Monthly Rewards Distribution
3500 order monthly to be shared for the dev Masi and for the orderly mentor we have 7000 order monthly to be shared. And for the orderly crafter we have 30,000 other tokens to be shared monthly. Awesome. Thank you Saturn. So you guys heard it from Saturn himself. We got a lot more different avenues than before. Before it was primarily focused on, for example, creating cool content, cool memes to share. That's still important, but now we have places for you to share, listings you want to see potential partnership opportunities. If you're a developer, we have something for you.
What Makes a Good Crypto Community
Saturn, I'm going to hit you with a super hard question. All right, put on your thinking cap here. What does a good community for in the crypto space? What does a good community look like? What is the vibe? What are some of the things that you would look at and think, okay, now this is a destination community that is fun for people to join. Yeah, I'm going to use community as an example. You know, the vibe in other discord is energetic and optimistic. So we have a community that always usually anticipates in our next product launch. Maybe chain expansion, upcoming announcement, maybe bullish announcement.
The Importance of Community Involvement
So it shows everyone are involved in our journey. So I think the key part of the community is involvement, inclusivity. Like everyone should be involved in the project decision, getting feedback from the community, getting it out there to the team and oh, the community thinks like this and we should do it. I think inclusivity is the main thing there. So we are there. We are there and then let's work together to make them needle. I think that's the key. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. Everyone keeps dming me on Discord and Twitter for Alpha.
Challenges and Opportunities Ahead
Like I know what's going on. Well, yeah, Saturn, I really appreciate you giving us this overview. Feel free to Twitter or discord dm either myself. Saturn, there's a ton of community, pardon me, orderly staff in there. You're always welcome to ping us with questions. It's a great program and really appreciative. Your work and the community's work, Saturn, for keeping that going. I do want to start to come in for a landing here on the Twitter spaces. I got one question for the team Google Medoji folks, and one more question for Alcoin Sherpa here.
The Future of AI and DeFi
So Team Google Madoji, if you can leave the audience, we talked a lot about AI and Defi. If you could leave them with one key takeaway about the potential of AI and Defi, what would it be? For me, I think that this is something that Sherpa mentioned, that it's something that we don't want, actually. We don't want a more efficient market. Because you put me out of a job, I'll be trying to get sabbaths. I'll take my lunch. Exactly. That's the main issue. Right?
Trading Challenges and AI Solutions
I think that eventually we will be onboarding these AI agents as David users in the space that would for sure make everything way more efficient. I think that's a reality. I think that everyone is working towards that. Just think that every day as a trader, you get bombed with information everywhere, right? You get so much noise, and sometimes it's very difficult to filter out everything and just keep like the high quality information. And even if you keep the good info, you will probably forget in a few minutes because the attention span that we have right now is ridiculous.
Future Predictions and Closing Thoughts
Now think of a bot that is going to get all the information, is going to be able to filter it, follow and standardize and structure and a strategy, and it's going to trade consistently, and then it's going to iterate and learn from their mistakes, is going to be there to take our money. So kind of scary. I don't want that moment to come, but I think that eventually we will be there. Okay, awesome. Thank you, Karthik, ifi or blues, anything on your end? Yeah, I think it's pretty simple, right? So when we talk about AI, imagine like how tough tons of money have put into the AR market.
The Investment in AI Growth
Like, even from Google, right? It's billion dollars. If you're gonna benefit from that and then leverage that ability to help you with doing something. We're pretty sure that AI keep growing it keep even more and more smart, then definitely leverage that. Otherwise your competitors in the market, they're all using those tools. Why don't you just try to do something as well? Mm. If you don't do it, someone else is going to do it. I got you. Yeah.
Final Questions on Future Trading Trends
Okay. Sherpa, I got one more question for you, man. What? Like, what are you looking for in the months ahead? Like what any key moments or anything you're looking at from an opportunity or challenge standpoint that you're kind of anticipating or potentially my trade around? Yeah, I think that, like, even though times are really hard right now, seasonality is really important. And generally speaking, December January time period in crypto is usually the almost some of the best times of the year to trade. Like, things are usually pretty good.
Encouragement for Future Trading
And given the overall trading conditions and environment where bitcoin is still, you know, I know it's choppy and everything, but still at 60k or whatever, I would say that just try to survive until December, January, because things are inevitably going to be much better than they are now. So a little bit of words of encouragement to those that are like, you know, struggling right now. Things are going to be a lot better, in my opinion, within the next three or four months or something like that. So just try to survive and chill out. A Christmas gift? Yeah, let's hope so.
Appreciation and Closing Remarks
All right, well, I'm super appreciative of everyone who's joined. From the hosting side, Annabella, Sir Otterly. From the guest side, Saturn, altcoin, Ethy Blues, karthik, madoja. You guys have, it's just been a wealth of knowledge and it's always a pleasure chat with all of you. I want to thank you so much for joining and hopefully everyone can come away from the spaces just a little bit smarter. So thank you. Thank you so much to everyone. Thank you.
Final Goodbyes
Appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having us. Thank you guys. Enjoyed this. Okay. All right, guys, take care. Thanks for listening, everyone. See ya. Have a good one. Bye bye.
