Space Summary
The Twitter Space Mass-Market Web3 Games: User Experience hosted by uniteio. The Twitter space on Mass-Market Web3 Games: User Experience provided valuable insights into the intersection of blockchain technology and user engagement in the gaming industry. Speakers from renowned venture capital firms like CB Ventures and Solana Ventures discussed the significance of user experience, scalability, and financial backing in driving innovation in Web3 games. Moreover, the focus on Layer 3 blockchain solutions and tech-gaming partnerships highlighted the potential for integrating advanced technologies to enhance gameplay and create immersive experiences for a broader audience. Overall, the discussions underscored the crucial role of user-centric design and strategic collaborations in shaping the future of gaming technology.
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Questions
Q: What sets Base and Unite apart in the blockchain gaming sphere?
A: Their innovative Layer 3 blockchain solution tailored for mass-market mobile games distinguishes them.
Q: How do venture capital firms influence the development of Web3 gaming projects?
A: Venture capital firms like CB Ventures and Solana Ventures provide crucial financial and strategic support.
Q: Why is user experience pivotal in the success of Web3 games?
A: A seamless and engaging user experience is essential for retaining and attracting players in Web3 games.
Q: What role does blockchain technology play in enhancing user engagement in gaming?
A: Blockchain technology improves transparency, security, and the overall gaming experience.
Q: How do partnerships between tech firms and gaming companies drive innovation in the gaming industry?
A: Collaborations lead to the integration of cutting-edge technology and creative game design.
Q: Why are Layer 3 solutions considered a game-changer for user experience in Web3 gaming?
A: Layer 3 solutions enhance scalability, speed, and efficiency in blockchain-powered gaming environments.
Q: How can blockchain technology create seamless user interactions in games?
A: By enabling secure and transparent transactions, blockchain technology improves in-game functionalities.
Q: What advantages do financial backing and technological support offer to gaming projects?
A: These resources allow for the development of advanced features, marketing, and continuous innovation.
Q: What insights do venture capital firms provide on the future of gaming technology?
A: They offer strategic guidance, market analysis, and investment opportunities to propel gaming tech forward.
Q: Why is scalability critical for the mass-market appeal of Web3 games?
A: Scalability ensures that games can accommodate a large number of players without compromising performance.
Q: How do Web3 games align with the trend of integrating blockchain into various industries?
A: Web3 games pioneer the use of blockchain for enhancing user experiences beyond traditional gaming boundaries.
Highlights
Time: 00:15:47
Introduction of Layer 3 Blockchain Solution Exploring the unique features and benefits of Base and Unite's innovative blockchain solution for mass-market games.
Time: 00:25:12
Venture Capital Influence in Web3 Gaming Insights from CB Ventures, OKX Ventures, and Solana Ventures on funding and shaping the future of Web3 gaming.
Time: 00:35:40
User Experience Focus in Web3 Games Discussions on the pivotal role of user experience and engagement for successful Web3 game adoption.
Time: 00:45:19
Tech-Gaming Partnerships Driving Innovation How collaborations between tech and gaming industries lead to groundbreaking advancements in gaming technology.
Time: 00:55:37
Scalability and Sustainability in Web3 Games Examining the scalability challenges and sustainable practices in mass-market Web3 game development.
Time: 01:05:28
Blockchain Integration for Seamless Interactions The benefits and challenges of integrating blockchain technology to enhance user interactions and gameplay.
Time: 01:15:10
Financial and Technological Support for Gaming Projects Importance of backing from venture capital firms and technology providers in driving innovation in gaming projects.
Time: 01:25:45
Future Trends in Gaming Technology Insights on how technological advancements and strategic investments shape the future landscape of gaming technology.
Time: 01:35:22
Mass-Market Appeal of Web3 Games Exploring strategies for making Web3 games accessible and appealing to a broader audience.
Time: 01:45:18
Blockchain's Role in Web3 Game Evolution Understanding the transformative potential of blockchain technology in revolutionizing the gaming industry.
Key Takeaways
- Base and Unite introduce a Layer 3 blockchain solution for mass-market mobile games.
- The importance of user experience in the success of Web3 games is highlighted.
- Insights from CB Ventures, OKX Ventures, and Solana Ventures on the future of gaming technology.
- The potential impact of blockchain technology on enhancing user engagement in gaming.
- Partnerships between tech firms and gaming companies are driving innovation in the gaming industry.
- Exploring the role of venture capital in supporting the development of Web3 gaming projects.
- Insights on the scalability and sustainability of Web3 games for mass-market appeal.
- The emergence of Layer 3 solutions as a game-changer for user experience in Web3 gaming.
- Discussions on integrating blockchain technology to create seamless user interactions in games.
- The significance of financial backing and technological support for revolutionary gaming projects.
Behind the Mic
Introduction
It. I wanna ride up till now. It'S the line of day that shows me how and when the night falling and I lost my senses spin to love ever lost my senses my senses help sooner or later the fever ends head out sooner or later the fever ends head out sooner or later the fever ends hand I've been filled up and lost my senses spin it to love and lost my senses spinning love and lost my senses spin it up and lost my senses head out sooner later the fever is head out sooner.
Greetings and Host Introduction
Gm Gm everybody. I hope you're all doing well. It's Monday, it's another week and that means one thing. It is time for another. Unite space. My name is Kelano. I will be your host for the hour. And we've got a good topic, which is mass market web, three games and user experience. But without further ado, I want to check with the Unite team. How are you guys doing today?
Panel Overview
MGM from the west coast, the US. This is Gary. We're doing great. Awesome, Gary, glad to have you. And I guess it's a little bit early for you. It's probably like, what, midday? it's 09:00 a.m. we're doing, we're doing great. Oh, your la time. I see, I see. All right, cool. Well, that will wake you up. A good space to start the day and nothing like that. All right, let's check with the speakers on the panel. We've got cocody. How are you? Who is it? Is it Django?
Discussion of Time Zones
It is. It is your favorite uncle Colano. Very nice. Thank God it's United space Monday. Yeah. And I'm calling in from Southeast Asia, so completely different time zone. It's evening for me. I'm getting my evening walk. So looking forward to this space with you guys. Maybe you're already on Tuesday. I'm not sure what's happening here, but that sounds like your bedtime work, you know? So very nice. All right, let's check with the other people on the panel.
Additional Panelist Introductions
We've got Sparkbo right next to me. How are you guys doing today? Hey, everyone. Yeah, this is Chandler, the CEO behind Sparkball. It's my first unite space. So super excited to be here. Awesome. The first of many. Good to have you. Thank you for joining, man. And last but not least, we've got time front. How are you guys doing? Hey, guys, Juliano here from Argentina. Glad to see my friends from Sparkle. And Kokodi here on this space, too.
Community Spirit
All right, this is just a big family here. I love it. All right, let's get into the conversation, guys on the panel. I'm going to say it. Many of you know me, but I'm just going to say it again. Feel free to just raise your hand and I'll come to you if you like, add a take to something that's being said or just your thought. Any question, any hot take, we take it, guys, but just put your hand up. Otherwise, I will come to you unexpectedly with a hard question.
Engagement and Responses
You will not be prepared. You will be halfway through your sip of coffee and you will be taken unexpectedly. But with that said, let's get into the conversation, guys. Mass market web, three games and user experience. So unite. As the host of the day, you get the first question. But you know, when you think of designing games to mass market, right? So the games that you hope is going to be the next candy crush, next battle royale, Clash of Clan, you know, that's going to have this mass market appeal.
Game Design Perspective
How do you, what is the thought process to make them? One, this kind of like, addictive game that people want to play for hours and hours, what's the secret of making it maybe simple enough and addictive enough? And two, how do you, on top of it, think of any worth relent that would be added onto that? Yeah, I'll jump on that first one. So, I mean, I think, I guess our hot take unite is that to bring web three games to mass market, you have to truly address the mass market, right?
Reaching the Mass Market
And that means you can't just go after the existing web three audience. So, you know, if we look at all, if we look at gaming out there, mobile gaming, casual games are, you know, an incredible way to access a huge audience that appeals to all demographics. So for us, the approach has been basically building mullet products, right? Web two in the front, web three in the back. And so you mentioned, you know, take an example like a candy crush.
Game Development Techniques
You take a game that appeals broadly to everyone, make it as sticky as possible, and it's not, you know, that's more about mobile game development than it is anything related to web three, right? Build the best possible game, and then within that, you build a reward system. And the reward systems are familiar to all users, right, whether they're diamonds or something, you can eventually trade in for gift cards or dollars. And eventually the mullet in the back is when you swap out the gift card options for crypto.
User Experience and Transition
We think it's a transition over time, but we think the best way, really, to get after that audience is to create an experience that is so familiar to what they already know. Yeah, I love a lot of the things you said here. You know, talking about the experience. One, talking about the reward and, you know, like, I think the more addictive games tend to have maybe not big, but, like, very frequent reward. And I think, you know, for this mass market gaming, people just need to get their dopamine heat real quick, hit real quick.
Engagement and Feedback
You know what I mean? All right, we've got a few hands up. I'm not sure who put it out first. I think it was called Sparkball. If it's not, please don't fat me, but give us your take or thoughts. Yeah, I think the thing I'm going to mention first is probably the most important part that I don't think people that aren't, like, truly involved in game dev or like, think about playing games from a game design perspective is there literally is no secret to making an addictive video game.
Challenges of Game Development
It is insanely hard. It's like 1% of video games ever that you can play for a longer period than like ten to 20 hours or rather a period after your original content is expired is probably the better way to put it. I think that just takes iteration and playtesting and, like, constant figuring out, like, what is this unique mechanic? What is this from a design perspective? I think the second part, to your point of, like, how do we bring, you know, especially web three to mass market? I like the mullet analogy a lot.
Abstracting Web Three
I've never heard that before. I like it a lot. I think the one thing that I just want to like, I guess, like, stop having people think is that, like, oh, all we have to do is abstract web three behind where people don't even know you're using it. Like, yes, that absolutely is a requirement, and we have to do that. Absolutely. But the problem is not like, oh, it's the technology that's in your way, or it's like, oh, the friction of this wallet process.
Game Design Considerations
It's how the game changes because it exists in the first place. And I think, like, if you're following web three gaming at all right now, like, you're following off the grid and you've probably seen it literally everywhere and it's doing an incredible job. But I think, like, the thing that every kind of, like, web two skeptic is approaching it with this is like, look, I don't care so much about the trading of skins, and I don't care so much about XYZ and like oh, blockchain is behind the scenes.
Design Element Integration
This is all great, but the problem is the game has been designed with blockchain in mind. It has nodes. It literally has nodes and validators and things like that. And the systems are designed with blockchain in mind. That means that they have to design an economy loop that accepts that. And I think the ultimate question that everybody has to solve at this stage is how do we introduce that regardless if it's behind the scenes or not, that adds to a web three economy, not takes away.
Critical Concerns in Development
And I think that's the most important thing to solve. I don't know if like off the grids is a solution. I they haven't released like enough information about it, but I think that's the biggest concern. Is is the replayability of this game going to suffer because of the web three elements in it? I don't know, but I think that's what we have to solve. Yeah, and I think you mentioned of the grid, obviously they've had a tremendous launch.
Future of Web Three Games
So I think we're all bullish and waiting to see what they can do because it's good to have these big moments. For web three, whether you like the game or not is irrelevant. But I think what you said I personally resonate a lot with is web three has to add to the current infrastructure. If it doesn't, there is no real point in adopting it. If we have a proven system, we're just going to ask people to move from exactly the same thing to something similar.
Incentives for Technology Adoption
That's just not going to move. People will move when there is a better reward for actually using that tech. But we've got another hand up with time front I want to check with you. Go for it. So yes, I agree with everything that has been said. I would add that on top of wallet of traction and a great gameplay loop, an addictive gameplay loop, you also need a, let's say an easy way to onboard the people into your game.
Game Accessibility
I'm not talking about web three games, I'm talking in general. Because if you think about the games that are like a hit, they're easy to get into, right. You think about for instance League of Legend. You just pick a hero and start fighting right now. Pabshi I think it was mentioned as well. You drop into a shooting hell, you know, and start shooting other people. It has to be easy to get into, right.
Retention and Gameplay Complexity
And if you get your game design in the way of doing more complex things and then the game, it's harder to understand on the first one or 2 hours that you're playing it and then you start losing that d one retention number. That is very important for you know? So I think on top of everything that has been said before, you also need. It's going to sound cliche, but it's also true you're going to need a game that is easy to learn but hard to master.
Mastery and Engagement
Right. It's something to get easy to start playing with, but as you start learning the ropes and you start advancing and progressing through the progression systems of the game, you need a way to start mastering it. Right. And that will add a lot of gameplay options, complexity and stickiness overall. Yeah, I love that. Take around like, easy to play, hard to master.
Personal Perspectives on Game Design
I think that's what truly has kept me in some games for so long. Like World of Warcraft, for example, when you play PvP and, or like high end PvE, for example. You know, it's exactly like that. I think it's exactly, to me, it's a big component of what makes the game really good. I like competitive stuff or competitive stuff, for example.
Player Engagement
So I get quickly bored of like a more simple game, maybe like candy Crush, for example. I'm sorry. I totally relate to that personally. Oh, Kokodi is about to come back on stage. Let's get them back in. All right, so I want to pass it around as well. Maybe I'm going to go back to you unite on this one. So, you know, I know you guys are building quite a few things.
Game Development Prioritization
So you probably see a lot of different ideas come on your desk as well, or like your brainstorm sessions, whatever you guys. You guys do. Like, how do you prioritize when you're developing a game? What are the ideas that make it top of the list? Basically amongst 20 idea.
Meeting Conclusion and Game Retention
You have five at the end of the meeting that keep. Keep with you, basically. What's the process to keep those? Yeah, I think when we've looked at, you know, games either developed, internally acquired, partnered with, ultimately it's the introduction of the crypto component. And I think one of the earlier speakers mentioned it, which is like, how disruptive is it? And not from a wallet standpoint, but like, does it actually change, does it change the game in a poor way? Does it go from something that is great and fun and I'm going to come back to just adds too much friction and so really mapping to games that already have a built in reward system and a built in reward system that is, again, additive makes you want to come back and that they do have these retention hooks that get you excited. Right.
Integration of Crypto with Gaming
And finding that to where you can then substitute crypto in for those or adding crypto alongside that has the minimal friction. So I would say that's probably when we look at filters in addition to. Is this game sticky? Is this going to be something that people really want to play? How minimally disruptive can the crypto side of it be? Ideally, is it even more? Can it accelerate the retention hooks? Because it's another thing that users will get excited about. Understood. And I love when you talk about these rewards often getting players hooked. I think that. But to be honest, obviously I'm not building any game myself, but it just seems like how sometimes the greatest ideas are born is.
Luck and Creativity in Game Development
I don't want to say lucky because you're obviously trying for it. Right. But I remember seeing a documentary about how the fruit ninja game was started. So if you guys don't know fruit ninja, feel free to google it. It's just this game where there are fruits coming up your screen and you have to swipe your screen frantically to effectively destroy the fruits. Right. And it was a game studio that was basically on the brink of folding, I think, and they had like 20 different ideas. And the guy who got this idea just went for it basically, and kind of like, did it off track. His boss didn't really want to and they had, you know, 15 other on paper seemed better. But, like, it's just sometimes that little bit of luck where you have this kind of like, spark and you think, okay, this is cool.
The Importance of Experimentation
And we don't know if it's going to work, but we just have to try it. Right. So unites. Long story here. But, you know, when you see things like that, do you think, oh, this was just like a moment of genius in. In something that created a massive onboarding for this game? Or do you think that can be kind of manufactured? I mean, I think everyone wants to believe it can be easily manufactured. Think of a spark ball who said it's 1% of games truly break out. So I think you need a diversity, a thesis that has kind of diversity of hooks. Right. Like, you need to be constantly experimenting because I think the most foolish thing would be to just launch one thing and believe you're going to nail it from the start.
Challenges in the Gaming Industry
Right. And so I think that's just really on the gaming front. You need to experiment like crazy on the backend crypto side. Ideally, that's something we think about developing multiple games, not just a single game. And that's one where, again, if you can take something like on the web, two side solitaire cache, bubble cache, all of them made by papaya games, they, you know, the UI looks very similar. It's a different type of game for each. But then how they integrate the rewards and all the different quests that you're working through are nearly identical across the games. And so that's something that's more repeatable. But, yeah, capturing the actual game, that's going to attract users and keep them staying, that takes a hell of a lot more experimentation.
User Experience and Game Development
Yeah, I can totally imagine from a user's perspective, it's just like, just make good games, man. But obviously, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it, right? So that's kind of the thing. Well, everyone is doing it, but not everyone's winning. Right. So it's more about, yeah, you can definitely throw a ton of experiments out there, but the actual games that are winning are in that one percentile, like Sparkball mentioned. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Now, Kokodi, I'm gonna check with you. So, Django, when you guys are building Kokodi, how important is that storytelling aspect? Obviously, I know some games, like puzzle games, for example, don't require any kind of, like, narrative lore, storyline, etcetera, but I think for a game like Kokodi, it's obviously a big part of it.
The Role of Storytelling in Gaming
Right. So how do you think of this when. When you're really trying to make the game appealing to all while at the same time still having personality? It's a good question. I will answer in a second, but I want to give a little bit of, like, my thoughts on the discussion so far. And first of all, I would say, like, absolutely agree with the fact that I feel we are building games first and foremost, and we. Should I even see it, you know, with off the grid right now, a lot of people are just basically mentioning, stop talking about, it's a web three game. It's not a web three game. It's just a game, you know, and people finally come to the point where we can truly actually start focusing on the gameplay, you know, the game design.
Gameplay Focus Over Web3 Components
Is it fun to play? Is it, you know, sticky? Can we play for like, 5 hours, 10 hours, 50 hours, 100 hours and still have fun? And this is what I believe most of us actually intend to actually bring to the market. This is what we want to see. This is where the user retention, the user base actually comes from. On the other hand, speaking of the entire web three component that is actually attached to the games. Off the grid is a fellow avalanche game. So similar like Kokodi. They are, however, having their own subnet, or right now, soon to be called l one. So somebody else was mentioning they are running the nodes and validators on the background. Yes, they are, because ultimately it's just basically like a dedicated blockchain just for this game.
Understanding the Benefits of Blockchain in Gaming
Obviously, the difference between a game like off the grid versus if it was not web three kind of related or web three game is that just basically, this is actually decentralized, and I've seen it. The best part, actually, of me following what's happening with off the grid is when I see people who are gamers who have zero connection to crypto, zero connection to a tree, they play the game and they at one point realize, oh, this is actually a crypto game. And then they start talking. What are the true benefits of this? Because I feel like for us often, these spaces, you know, we join multitudes of spaces every week, and it almost feels like we've been harping on this for the past several months.
Gamers' Realization of Game Ownership
But finally we start seeing this type of stuff coming to fruition where the people who are playing, you know, the gamers are realizing, oh, this is basically the same as CSGO skins. And I don't have to look for any special marketplace, but I actually truly own those assets. If I want to hop from this asset to that asset or hop from one game to another, it's so much easier. So people basically realize the technology behind the games and what it brings. But as far as the user experience perspective, we should still kind of put even more gas pedal on having the best kind of user experience that there can be for a game. It doesn't have to be wetland tricking, just working.
Opportunity and Storytelling in Gaming
Right. So the winning scenario is, we spoke about this a little bit before, about you just have to be prepared for the opportunity when it actually comes your way. And whether it's fruit ninja or any other type of, you know, kind of mechanics or idea that you come up with, and you come, you make it come to life. Once you keep it on the. On the head, once you hit the nail on the head, you will hit it. And you just have to be prepared for the opportunity. But this comes not from the web three component. It just comes from, I designed a really good game as far as Kokodi, you know, and having this kind of component of storytelling and lore, it's super important for us.
Kokodi: Storytelling as a Core Component
And I will say that Kokodi started three years ago with three people. One of those three people is Melba and I, she is also the creative director right now for Kokodi. So she has given a lot of this artistic direction for how Kokodi looks. You know, even the design aesthetics, which is very unique for us, as well as the story behind, you know, every character and what's happening in the world of Kokori, I don't want to just go deeper into, like, trying to describe it, but the point being is that I feel like we are very fortunate having that person from the very beginning that is able to lead and put us into the direction of, like, okay, this is what Kokodi is and all the story behind it.
Emotional Connection to Characters
Why? Because yet again, we spoke about earlier, we don't want to have a game that I played for one or 2 hours, but I want to spend 50 hours playing and hundreds of hours of playing and still have fun. And this is only possible if you can actually make people have emotional connection with the characters, with the game, at least when it comes to a game like Kokodi. So basically, you know, like, I really foresee that in the future that once people start figuring out Kokodi, you know, and first, oh, it's just a shooter game and, oh, there's loot boxes, oh, and there's this and that.
The Complexity of Game Engagement
And you can figure it out, like, relatively fast. But down the line, once you start figuring out about, like, you know, all the little tricks and nuances that are within the game and how the characters, you know, they have a story, there is a comic book behind a character and stuff like this. This is where people will start getting the emotional connection to Kokodi, and this is where they will actually go deeper and spend more time, you know, figuring out, like, oh, I'm playing with Reiko and this is her story and this is where her place is in this world and so on. So, yeah, it is absolutely super important.
Narrative-Driven Games and IP Growth
And I feel like down the line, again, it's not just yet, but down the line, once people start figuring out a, they will just basically appreciate it. No, I think that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, I always love when you talk about, like, the comic, the game, the story, I can really full IP, which I think is what, like, we know the biggest games are generally IP driven. So either they create a big IP because they are famous or they come from a big IP directly. So definitely an important part here. We've got time front with a hand up.
Innovations in Gaming
Again, I want to check with you. What's up? Give us your talk, your thought or take. Yeah, I was putting my hand up as Gary was talking about innovation. And I think this is a really important point I wanted to spend some time in because I really believe that some of the breakthroughs that we've seen on gaming lately, I would say lately in the past ten years or so are the result of innovation and taking risks, right? I was talking about. We were talking about pub she and were talking about League of Legends.
Gaming Innovation Through Community Feedback
You know, these games were born out of custom games, like mods of original titles. And you get these amazing games that even spawn new genres because people were willing to take risks, to innovate, to experiment, and they actually build or like extend a multibillion dollar industry. So they took risks, they experimented and they essentially put the industry forward. You can have even simple example of this as off the grid, for instance, is with the Lim systems. Before them was apex with abilities and before then it was PUBG on the royal version of a battle royale. You can kind of see how even within a Chandra itself, taking risks or doing innovations pulls a Chandra forward.
The Need for Continued Innovation
So that's kind of what we're doing here on Timefront. If you take a look at the last, the latest rts's, none of them are innovative. You could say that the biggest hit of rts were like 14 or 15 years ago with the release of StarCraft two, right? So every other game that were after StarCraft two, that was released after StarCraft two essentially was like a cheap clone, you know, or something that didn't innovate, didn't take any risks. So I think in order for us to break through, we can't. We have to take risks, we have to experiment and create addictive gameplay loops through the introduction of something noble, right?
Challenges in Game Design
Not only to call the attention from the web two traditional space, but also to move forward with game designs, with the industry as a whole as well. Very interesting take here on, I guess, the last innovation being StarCraft two in that genre. So do you think we're coming to a point where there is not a lot of innovative design in the gaming space? Maybe due to everything having been done, so many games coming out. And if that's the case, like for example, I think of football games like FIFA is not really innovating, it's just changing a little bit. If I think of shooter games, FPS games, you go counter strike Fortnite, stuff like that.
The State of Innovation in Gaming
There is very few true innovation from year on year. What do you think? Is that difference? Because if I know Fortnite is working, why don't I just copy Fortnite and make it a little bit different to get another hit game. Right. Like where. Where is the actual innovation coming in right now? Exactly. I think if you go out and do a clone of Fortnite, you're going to lose because you are going to be essentially competing against a giant as Epic Games and an IP that is already installed. As for that.
Innovation Through Unique Concepts
Right. So if you want to make the new fortnight, you need to. To choose what worked from Fortnite and do your own twist and innovate on something, on an aspect of the game and release that. And then you have, of course, to go through all the playtesting loops with your playtesters and you have to hear the community, see what they like, see what they hate, and take all the good things and double down on that. The fact that you mentioned this is because it's something that I think is probable that both Gary mentioned this.
Winning in a Competitive Market
There are people innovating out there, especially on gaming, but you only see like 1% of them winning. So it is not that it's hard to innovate. It's hard to innovate and win because you have to take risks. You have to do things that are not expected and on a market that maybe is not tested and. Yes, and you have to be able to, let's say that you have to choose well, you know what, you think it's going to work and the community has to like it. And that is not an easy thing to do.
The Role of Innovation in Game Development
You only get there through innovation plus accepting mistakes, knowing what to work on and double down on what works. Yeah, the road is always paved with, you know, ups and down for sure when you're building a game. And not just a game. I don't want to go too philosophical here, but that applies to life as well. In general, I think this kind of advice. All right, guys, listen, before I continue with the conversation, we've just hit the half hour mark, so it's a quick room reset here.
Engaging with the Audience
If you're enjoying the conversation, if you've joined recently, give us some support and give this face a, like a retweet and drop any question or hot take you may have in the comment section. Now, Sparkle, I want to come to you. I haven't come up. You've got your hand up, actually. So that's perfect. Go for it and I'll ask you my question afterwards.
The State of Innovation in Gaming
Yeah, I was just going to say, on the topic of innovation, I think there's two problems here. One, and this is going to sound like, very dramatic, but it is a real thing, a lot of the companies that we're innovating in the space. You think about Ubisoft and Blizzard and things like that were taken over by corporate shareholders for lack of a better term. And I don't mean to get like all anti-capitalistic and all of that stuff, but the fact is like innovation is not necessarily rewarded in the space right now. And I think games just in general are going through this gigantic almost reckoning concorde probably being one of the worst examples of this of like, hey, you guys can't do that shit. Like, you guys are idiots. I don't know why everybody thought you could just take a game that came out of and then five years later release essentially a carbon copy and think you're just going to do it better. It straight up does not work that way. And so I think that reckoning is slowly starting to show its head. And I think you're going to start slowly start seeing these super large companies adapt for lack of a better term.
Innovation through Indie Studios
So I think what you have to do is you have to kind of rely on indie studios to innovate. And I can say this like it's going to sound a little egotistical. I think Sparkle is a relatively innovative game. We took a combat loop, or combat plus sports loop that's never been done before. And the only way were able to do that is because we spent six years iterating on it like literally thousands upon thousands of hours of playtesting. We took what should have been a simple idea and we're like, oh yeah, this should work. It didn't. And then we just kept trying over and over again until it finally did. And the reason I tell that story is it's not to show or anything like that, but to say directly, like, innovation takes time. It takes iteration. And what does time and iteration do? It costs money.
Funding and the State of the Industry
And where is the money going right now? Well, it's going to a lot of the incumbents. It's if you look at kind of where web two funding is going, it's going toward X Riot and X Blizzard Studios. That reckoning is also starting to shift slowly. And so to me, when I think about the power of web three and to me, what we should all be focusing on is like, how do we empower studios? How do we empower indie studios? How do we empower innovation? How do we create different game loops either with web three, or create different ways to fund and progress studios and even publish studios? You think about something super simple like user acquisition. Me as a we're not free to play, but let's just put our free to play hat on me as a free to play game coming out. How do I compete with League of Legends?
Competing in a Crowded Market
How do I compete with MLBB who has the backing of tints and Garena and millions upon millions of dollars while I do it through almost token raising or crowdfunding or incentives or play to airdrops. And now all of a sudden I have a chance where my game can actually get a proper swing at user acquisition. So to me this is the strengths of web three. It's empowering that innovation. It's allowing people kind of that space to breathe and hopefully giving people like us who don't have hundreds of million dollars a seat at the table where we can survive on merits alone. And I think that's all any game developer ever wants is to be judged like on the merits of their game itself. And I think to me that's like the really empowering factor and I hope that's to me where innovation comes from.
Reflections on Game Innovation
Very interesting thing here about the in the game innovation factor. And I think that, you know, that is, I mean, I'm sure that is true actually, because, you know, I think most of the big games that we know today didn't start by a billion dollar company, right? All these studios were at some point small and they made something different that people loved and they became the giants. And then the loop that you're talking about kind of appears where maybe they start lacking innovation. But you know, I saw an interesting study, maybe akin to hear your thoughts on that as well, that most game companies that were successful in launching new games today are actually old game companies most of the time sort of recycling existing games. Not necessarily exactly the same, but like just kind of like bringing out a new version.
Data-Driven Success
And the reason why they succeed is because they have a lot of data on the ads basically to push new games to Facebook and all that stuff, for example. Do you think that's true? I think it's a little different with mobile games. Money matters in this space. Unfortunately. If someone releases a really cool match three game that no one's ever seen before and it's super innovated and it's super indie, and then king comes in or supercell comes in and says, well, sorry, buddy, and just outspends your ads like crazy, yeah, you're gonna get shit on. Like, it is what it is. I think the biggest problem is like development cycles like Concord was literally six years too late. Guess how long it took to make Concord six or seven years or something absurd like that.
Challenges in Game Development
So I think it's almost like time to market. And I think the other problem that everyone is gonna run into, like literally everyone, is that even if you want your game to survive and merit, like, let's say you do make fortnight but better, the reality is you're still not going to win because it has to be so substantially better for people to actually switch. And so, for example, we get asked a lot, like, hey, how are you guys going to take players from League of Legends? Or how are you going to take players from Dota? And the answer is you're not going to. If you're building a game right now with the idea that you're going to take players from Fortnite or counter strike or league or Dota, change your go to market strategy, it's not going to work.
Strategic Player Acquisition
You have to find the players who are like, spending, you know, maybe a couple hours a week playing those games and are constantly looking for other games to go to. So I don't know if that directly answers your question, but I think, like, you absolutely can just make a better game, but with how long development takes, I just don't think that's the play right now and especially with how much of a commitment it is. Like, you know, if Concord spent $20 million and failed, yeah, whatever, it was worth a shot. But if you're spending two, three, $400 million on a game, it's, it's. Failure is not a good look, to say the least.
Expectations of Game Developers
No, I think we can agree on that one. Failure is not a good look with that kind of spending number. Interesting take here. And, you know, I appreciate the honesty as well from someone working closely in the game industry. So I think that it's good to hear, you know, maybe I'm gonna go back to unite here. So, you know, based on what you've just heard, here from Sparkball, like, well, how are you guys, because I know you are actually, you know, you have a horde of game that people can play through what you guys are building. So, like, how do you one select the ones that are going to make it through?
Measuring Game Success
And, and how do you, how can you measure actually that kind of addiction in a game to see if this game looks good? Hey, you know what? Maybe it doesn't have a ton of player, but we can see, I don't know, average duration of playtime is two and a half hours. It's 200% up on another game that we have in the same genre. We should switch this one, for example. Yeah, we have to remember that unite is focused on casual games. So the time from development to bring it to market is much shorter than what the other panelists are building, which takes a hell of a lot more time and depth of development.
Development Philosophy for Casual Games
So for, I would say for us, the philosophy is more, build something, get it out there and let the market tell you whether or not you've built something great. So, for example, we built a ton of apps. The one that's probably the most successful so far is board button and the basic, and again, casual game, the basic premises. You've got a big red button and you're playing, let's say you start and you're put into Tetris, a Tetris like game or a match three like game. When you get bored, press the board button and then it flips to a new game. And that was something that we found that not only were we able to have a much longer retention and engagement with users, but also were able to acquire users at a pretty low CPI, in part because were able to nail those keywords for us.
Focus on Profitability
We care not just about, let's say, session times. We believe that for unite to be successful, for web three gaming to be successful, you have to be building profitable games. That's what we've really focused on. You build games that just on the web two side that are profitable games. You add in the web three component and then you're able to create a scenario where I it's the web three players. I'll give you an example of board button, specifically, any revenue generated by the players. Again, whether that's via ads or if it was IAP, if it was Google Play Pass, we give back to the users, but not all users.
Sustainable Token Model
Kind of like gift card breakage, not all users claim. And so for any user, we're able to give them, in a sense, offer them more than the revenue they generate for us and still build a profitable game. Ultimately, that's how we think we're going to be able to build a sustainable token model, is by building profitable games. First, going back to the original question, how do we do that? Well, because it's casual games, we can actually pretty quickly build and test games in the market and see how they perform.
Creating Utility and a Circular Economy
Very interesting, especially around this revenue solution that you brought here. I find that fascinating. So it's a bit like the gym, for example, in a way, like because not everybody goes to the gym all the time, so the gym is not actually at full capacity, if that makes sense. And that's how it allows people to be able to go there and share the space. It's kind of like the same with the revenue here a little bit. I don't know if it's the best. Another way to. So let's say take a game like board button, which has more than 5 million downloads.
Understanding User Engagement
The web, two players who come in and play typically are just like are doing it because they love the game and they love the variety of games. It's kind of a, it's a boredom killer. It's a time killer, it's anxiety killer. And so it has its kind of place. They are all generating revenue, right? And most of those players are not actually claiming it. And so that in a sense, the revenue that's being generated by the web two players can be harvested by the web three players. And that's also a way that we can attract in web three players.
Acquisition Challenges
It is much harder. If you just look at acquisition costs, acquiring your typical web two player is much cheaper than acquiring your typical web three player. We have to create an environment that has a ton of gamers in. It has revenue that can be claimed by those web three players and get some incentivized to stay. Fascinating. Yeah, I do believe that it's pretty more expensive to acquire with players because you can't do ads. Right. I mean, you can, but it just doesn't really work too well.
Building an Attractive Gaming Environment
So, yeah, it's all of it. Right. You can't do, you can't do ads. So there's a ton of restrictions around it. But the bigger thing is there are just so many fewer of them. Right. So it's really the best way to attract a web three player is to build a place that they want to be. Right. It's not to rely on an algorithm to hopefully be able to track them and make your CPI is minimal. It's really, you have to build a place that web three players want to be.
Challenges in Game Development
Yeah. And easier said than done, as per usual, of course. Yeah, for sure. If we had the answer, we would all be rich here and not on this space. So. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. So now listen, I want to pass it to maybe I want to go back to time front for a bit on this one. I want to ask maybe from what you guys are building, if you could maintain a balance between offering, I guess, real world value, which is for us most likely going to be ownership of assets, in our case maybe in game economy as well.
Creating Value and Fun
I think that's also something we're quite big in our space and preserving that experience for the user. How do you draw the balance between, you know, making that extra value and making sure it's fun first? That's a good question. And something that I giving a lot of thought about this. What we, the way that we solve this is creating a feedback loop between the main game itself at the custom games that are all around time frame, right? So when we ship the game, we ship it with a game editor for UCC.
Gameplay and Audience Targeting
Is it easy gameplay, easy to understand story cute characters. Nfts. What are the key elements that you guys are thinking of to make it as appealing as possible to most people, basically. Good question, Kalano. But as you know, I'm not the game deaf myself. Solve, right? So I'm not the one that is attending the everyday deaf meetings. So my meetings are like focused sometimes on different kind of topics. But regardless, I would say first of all, and this is a little bit of a segue to what has been touched upon a little bit in the previous discussion, I want to just basically like make clear for the way Kokodi looks, or we at Kokodi, how we look at the entire landscape because it's not user is not equal to a user. So we kind of start dividing our audience between like a web, two audience and crypto people versus gamers.
Market Analysis
And I said it many times on spaces in the past, there is an estimate of five to 600 million people who are considered crypto users. And there is over 5 billion gamers and over 1 billion PC and console gamers. So the market for the gamers is bigger. So it's already kind of more mature market where we can milk the cow and market in crypto. I feel like it's still exploring. We are still seeking where the ceiling actually is. And this is also why a lot of the innovation actually happens to here. But I would say why I bring this up here is because we try to actually target the users, so we don't try to make the game for absolutely everyone. Obviously, at this moment, it's still kind of, you know, we try to see what sticks and try to actually, you know, based on user feedback, try to basically adjust the game design and what we actually do.
Kokodi's Companion App and Game Design
A good example of this, us as Kokodi, having released a companion app on Telegram. This has been a big debate internally whether we actually want to do it because we know this is not our core product, this is not something that we want to focus on, and this is not what we actually want to like. What is the vision of Kokodi? What we want to bring to the market and bring to the people. But we have nonetheless decided that, oh, okay, we are going to release a companion app, a mini game that is on Telegram. It's easy accessible. Telegram has almost 1 billion users at this point. So it's easy to tap into that user base and then possibly convert them into our main game. So there is a lot of facets or like, you know, factors that need to be considered when we actually do that type of stuff.
Core Game Experience
But when it comes to the main game. And the core game is, I keep saying this, that we want people to be able to enjoy playing Kokodi for 50 plus, hundred plus hours. And in order to do that, you know, I don't think that there's like one certain like single aspect that actually solves the entire problem. But at first, easy hook. So this is where our design comes into place where, you know, actually you spend 30 seconds on a gameplay footage or any kind of trailer or you see other people streaming Kokori, you can get a feel of like, this is what the game looks like. It's very colorful, it's very fun, it's very fast. So this is like the first hook and then we go into like design loops into making sure that we slowly can draw the people in. Even going back to my previous talks about the storyline and the history behind Kokodi and having the lore that we can build the entire ip around the game.
Strategic Daily Decisions and Feedback
So I don't know if this answers your question completely, but I feel like there is a lot of facets that needs to be and a lot of factors need to be considered in that type of design. And obviously, like on a daily basis, even if I join the dev meetings occasionally, it's more like, you know, down to earth, like what needs to be fixed next? What do we want to do? You know, what doesn't work, what works and just more like really kind of, I don't want to say mundane, but not like strategic decisions that are done on a daily basis. Got it. Now, very interesting insight here, all of it. And I know you're not part of the dev, but I'm sure you contribute to some ideas as well because I know as boomers, you know, we are full of ideas.
Innovative Ideas and Generational Contributions
Absolutely true. You know, like, I'm also known right now, Internet, as the uncle that comes up with sometimes crazy ideas, which some of them happen to be implemented. You're right. I feel like we are the generation that can still, like, if you are in it, you can still innovate. Exactly. If you're in it, you can innovate. Sentence of the day here. All right, so I want to maybe, you know, you talked about something super interesting here, which is your Telegram game. And that's kind of, I guess, a good segue into your question that I just thought about for unite here. I know you guys are obviously building your l three for or gaming, mobile gaming.
Exploring New Technology in Gaming
But like, how are you thinking about this telegram new wave? Because I guess Telegram is on mobile. It's also desktop, but it's probably games that can be played on mobile. Are you even thinking about telegram at all for what you guys are building? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's hard not to. Right. When you look at the. Certainly the activity that's happening there. And I think we're just starting to see some of the early projects come to fruition TGE and start to see the kind of longer term market appetite. I think the reason the Telegram piece is intriguing is certainly just like the user acquisition component. When you think about, again, let's say, launching a game and whether you're going through App store, again, thinking about it from a mobile standpoint, where they're going through app store or you're able to acquire users that are kind of already self indicated, web three interested and you're acquiring them for a fraction of what you would on Android or iOS.
The Evolution of Game Features
So that alone makes it a must explore. What's interesting about Telegram in Telegram games, at least in our opinion, is that to date, they are, you could say, hyper or whatever is more hyper than hyper casual games. And that, you know, whether they're clicker apps or something like Caddison, where there's, you know, very mild amount of gameplay and it's all kind of a, you know, a costume over, you know, just airdrop farming. And, you know, I think the ease of it is what's been appealing. But I wouldn't. The kind of the first generation, I wouldn't call those games, I would just call them. I would try them skins on top of an airdrop. And so I think what we're exploring is really where's the sweet spot in the middle that actually employs more game like features, that has things that would be sticky even if there wasn't crypto and airdrop farming involved, so that you can leverage the strength of telegram, which is the ability to go viral extremely quickly.
Sustainability in the Gaming Landscape
So, yeah, maybe to summarize, it's definitely interesting. I would say the current version isn't something that's that sustainable. And the longer term looks like something that's probably a little bit heavier game moving from Hyper. Hyper maybe to hyper casual, but yeah, something that we'll be kind of dipping our toes into shortly. Yeah, I think it's fascinating to me, and you just gave me an idea, it's stupid. So I'm going to ask you guys because you're the smart people here, but, you know, you just said, like, the current crop of game is basically quite rudimentary, which I think is a fair take here, I would say, to say the least. But when you think of, you know, building mobile games and having the easy access on Telegram, do you think there is a possibility where potentially, you know, you get like the level one of a full on game?
Bandwith Challenges and Game Levels
Because I think the limit for Telegram right now is like the bandwidth of how heavy can the game because it's automatically downloaded live. So you can have a 500 megabyte game, for example. So they quite like usually 50, 60 megabytes. And do you think we're going to see a place maybe where we have like level one of this game of playable on Telegram? And if you're on the game, then you have to go to the app store and download it 100%. I think that's definitely, you know, again, leveraging telegram for what it does best, which is keep user acquisition is a great idea. Whether if you see the initial, the first levels and try and bring people to another, whether it's to a web app or to your game experience somewhere else, I think there's going to be a ton of experimentation around that.
Risks and Opportunities for Experimentation
Maybe I'm a genius market or I've just given you the million dollar money maker here. All right, we've got some. Lock down the spaces. Lock it down. That was too good. This is now a paid space, guys, by the way, we'll just send you the invoice, but we've got head up with spark ball, so I want to check with you. What's up? Yeah, I just want to talk because I know Unite's talking mainly about like casual and hyper casual mobile games. And I think everything that they're saying makes perfect sense. But I'll chime in kind of from like a PC console, double AAAA, whatever you want to call it.
Challenges of Telegram in Web Three Gaming
I think telegrams are hurting web three gaming infinitely more than they are helping. And I think there's really kind of two specific reasons for this. I think one is web three gaming has always been kind of an arms race. And what I mean by that is, look, we all need money to make the game. Pretty simple idea here. And how do we get that money? Well, one of the problems is, and this is pretty well known in the space, is that at it's very hard to tell the quality of a game from a VC perspective. And unless you kind of grind this game for a long time or you're super hardcore gamer and everybody knows, like, if you spend any time in this space at all, crypto VC's are not that, to say the least.
Impact of Hype and Numbers in Gaming
And so I think what we start running into is like, well, everybody goes by hype and numbers. And so were already put in this really interesting position where if you had a million dollars, the answer, if you needed to raise 5 million more dollars was, hey, buddy, spend most of that billion dollars in marketing. Do not spend it an actual product. This has kind of always been a known thing in crypto. It is what it is. This is, you kind of have to play the game. And I think Telegram has just made this worse. You start seeing like, these PC and console games that are like, hey, guys, I have 1 million players for my game. You know, like, okay, well, where the actual players, what was the average play time across that?
Sustainability Concerns in Web Three
What was that retention of that? Did you pay all of those players? How many players played for free? What was their average engagement? And you have to start answering all these questions, but in reality, all you're doing is scrolling through a Twitter timeline and be like, oh, my God, a million players. That sounds cool. And so I think it just kind of made this arms race worse and worse. But I think the larger issue to me is just sustainability. I think this is, and I think unite hit on this really well, for what it's worth, because they were talking a lot about profitability and revenue. Is that like, we're not even crossing the threshold of like, what is a sustainable game that lasts more than, I don't know, a month in web three look like?
The Financial Burden of Unsustainability
And if you're paying out five to 10% of your token supply, or hundreds of thousands of dollars in airdrop campaigns, or even more through Telegram games, you now have to recoup all of that money. And not only do you have to recoup it, you have to deliver on it in ways that actually keep those people sustained because they're all value extracting. And so I think Telegram is just propping up and bolstering these numbers to completely unsustainable levels, to levels that were already unsustainable, to even further unsustainable levels. And I think people just aren't really looking at what the future repercussions of these, because the thing that I always say in this instance is, who is going to lose money in these cases?
Risks of the Retail Investor
And the answer is always retail. It will always be retail. It will always be players. It will always be traditional gamers. And that's how web three gaming is going to fail, is because everybody lost money, retail lost money. The idiots who weren't, I don't mean I'm one of these idiots. I mean, these people who weren't spending their entire lives dedicating to playing the game system that the web three game and making money, those people are going to lose money and they're gonna be like, man, this web three thing really sucks. So I think Telegram is kind of walking us on a very fine line in that direction. And it's very concerning to me as a gamer. I hope someone solves it because, yeah, the distribution is unparalleled, and I do think using it as part one.
Conclusions on Future Game Development
But, like, if you're building a telegram game and then planning to make a game, you're three years behind, in my opinion, unless you're making a mobile game. Totally, totally different case. But I think it's just a path that's a very dangerous one to walk down. Well, I think that is the hot take of the day. I don't know what you guys think, but I love it. So, no, thank you so much. I think I'm gonna do the terrible thing now and drop that and then have to run. So. No, no, it's all good, man, but we appreciate you. We're at the end of the hour, but that was a really good take. Honestly, I think, needed truth, you know, and honest, that take.
Closing Thoughts and Future Engagement
So I can't. I can't fault it, man. But listen, as you said, we are above the hour, so it's time to wrap it up. Honestly, already it went super fast, so I want to thank everyone in the audience if you took 1 hour out of your day to spend it with us. We appreciate you, everyone on the panel, really good conversation. Everyone was on top of the game, so I appreciate you all. And last but not least, of course, unite. You get the closing words. The mic is yours. No, I just want to thank all the Kokodi sparkball timefront that was. It's always great to see, you know, people come in from a different vantage point.
Acknowledging Audience Engagement
Obviously, we're doing. We're doing casual games, but thank you to the audience for coming in. Definitely. Come check us out unet IO. Check out our games board button on Android, you know, and more experimentation to come. I think if you learned anything from this, it's that, you know, the best way forward on UX is more experimentation. So looking forward to seeing everyone soon. All right, and don't forget, guys, we do this every week, so we'll be back next Monday, same place, same time. So we'll see you then. In the meantime, take care.
