Space Summary
The Twitter Space LI.FI x Den: DeFi and More hosted by lifiprotocol. The LI.FI x Den space delves into the world of DeFi, focusing on providing users with seamless swaps and bridging capabilities across EVM and Solana networks. Through a rich ecosystem of partnerships, including industry giants like Robinhood, MetaMask, and Phantom, LI.FI x Den enhances DeFi accessibility and liquidity. The discussion encompasses the importance of interoperability, collaborative trends, and innovative strategies within the DeFi landscape. LI.FI x Den plays a pivotal role in driving DeFi innovation, offering user-centric solutions and shaping the future of decentralized finance.
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Space Statistics
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Questions
Q: What is the primary focus of LI.FI x Den in the DeFi space?
A: LI.FI x Den specializes in providing an API for seamless swaps and bridging across EVM and Solana networks to enhance DeFi accessibility.
Q: How many bridges and DEXs are accessible through LI.FI x Den?
A: Users can access over 15 bridges and 30+ decentralized exchanges via LI.FI x Den, boosting DeFi liquidity and usability.
Q: Which major platforms are partnered with LI.FI x Den?
A: LI.FI x Den has partnerships with Robinhood, MetaMask, Phantom, and over 250 other partners, facilitating wider integration and user access.
Q: Why is interoperability between EVM and Solana crucial in DeFi?
A: Interoperability between EVM and Solana expands DeFi capabilities, offering users a more interconnected and efficient decentralized financial experience.
Q: How does API integration benefit users interacting with decentralized exchanges?
A: API integration simplifies user interactions with various decentralized exchanges and blockchain networks, enhancing the overall DeFi user experience.
Q: What role does LI.FI x Den play in driving DeFi innovation?
A: LI.FI x Den drives DeFi innovation by improving accessibility, liquidity, and user-friendly experiences, paving the way for a more streamlined DeFi ecosystem.
Q: Why is bridging diverse blockchain ecosystems important in DeFi?
A: Bridging different blockchain ecosystems is vital in DeFi as it facilitates seamless asset transfers and interactions, creating a more interconnected and cohesive DeFi environment.
Q: How does LI.FI x Den contribute to improving the future of DeFi?
A: LI.FI x Den streamlines DeFi operations, enhances user experience, and fosters collaboration within the DeFi space, shaping a more integrated decentralized financial landscape.
Q: What trends are prominent in DeFi regarding collaboration and integration?
A: DeFi trends emphasize collaboration and integration to offer users a comprehensive, interconnected DeFi environment that enhances usability and efficiency.
Q: In what ways does LI.FI x Den enhance DeFi accessibility for users?
A: LI.FI x Den enhances DeFi accessibility by providing seamless swaps, bridging capabilities, and partnerships with major platforms, expanding user reach and usability within the DeFi space.
Highlights
Time: 00:09:12
API Integration for Seamless Swaps Discussing how API integration simplifies swaps and interactions across various DeFi platforms.
Time: 00:15:47
Partnerships with Industry Giants Exploring LI.FI x Den's partnerships with Robinhood, MetaMask, and Phantom, key players in the DeFi ecosystem.
Time: 00:23:56
EVM and Solana Interoperability Understanding the importance of interoperability between EVM and Solana for expanding DeFi capabilities.
Time: 00:31:20
Driving DeFi Innovation Insights into how LI.FI x Den contributes to DeFi innovation through enhanced accessibility and user experiences.
Time: 00:39:45
Bridging Blockchain Ecosystems Highlighting the significance of bridging diverse blockchain ecosystems for seamless asset transfers in DeFi.
Time: 00:45:02
Collaborative Trends in DeFi Exploring the collaborative trends within the DeFi space to create a more integrated and interconnected financial environment.
Time: 00:53:18
Enhancing DeFi Usability How LI.FI x Den improves DeFi usability through streamlined operations and collaborative initiatives.
Time: 01:02:30
Future of DeFi Landscape Discussing the evolving landscape of DeFi and the role of LI.FI x Den in shaping its future.
Time: 01:10:15
User-Centric DeFi Solutions Insights into user-focused initiatives by LI.FI x Den to enhance user experience and accessibility in DeFi.
Time: 01:18:40
Innovative DeFi Strategies Exploring innovative strategies employed by LI.FI x Den to drive DeFi growth and adoption.
Key Takeaways
- LI.FI x Den focuses on providing an API for seamless swaps & bridging across EVM and Solana networks.
- Over 15 bridges and 30+ DEXs are accessible through LI.FI x Den, enhancing DeFi liquidity and accessibility.
- The space highlights partnerships with major platforms like Robinhood, MetaMask, Phantom, and over 250 other partners for wider integration and user reach.
- Discussing the significance of leveraging EVM and Solana interoperability for expanding DeFi capabilities and user experiences.
- Insights into the evolving landscape of DeFi, showcasing innovative solutions for creating a more connected and efficient decentralized financial ecosystem.
- Exploring the role of LI.FI x Den in driving DeFi innovation through enhanced accessibility, liquidity, and user-friendly experiences.
- Emphasis on the importance of bridging different blockchain ecosystems to facilitate seamless asset transfers and interactions within the DeFi space.
- Understanding how API integration simplifies the process of interacting with various decentralized exchanges and blockchain networks.
- Insights on the potential impact of LI.FI x Den in shaping the future of DeFi by streamlining operations and improving overall user experience.
- Exploring the trend of collaboration and integration within the DeFi space to offer users a comprehensive and interconnected DeFi environment.
Behind the Mic
Testing Out New Mic
Hey, yeah, I can hear you. I'm just testing out this new mic, so I don't know if this is using my mic or is this just my laptop mic? Yeah, I don't know, but the quality is pretty good. It's good. Thanks, man. Yeah. How's Leaf? I have been saying good stuff about you, like, making good progress, getting integrations, integrating new chains. Sorry, can you. Can you repeat this? My connection is a bit bad right now. Nothing, man. I was just playing with you.
The Conversation with DJ
DJ. What's good, boss man? How's it going? Can you let him be the speaker? Leifer. Hello. What's good? It's a busy day, but everything is good. Thanks for having me. How are you? Good. Good as it should be. Good day to talk Defi, and I think we'll just wait for a few more minutes to let people tune in and then we can get started. Sounds good. It. All right, I think we can get started. So thanks, man. Thanks for tuning in and other folks on this pieces today.
Starting Discussion on DeFi
I think this piece is going to be a light one, meaning we are just going to talk about then we are going to talk about a partnership and DeFi in general. So just to kick things off with, we can start off with a round of introductions. And to introduce myself, I'm Satok. I'm the head of new integrations at Lefi. Been growing leafy since the last two and a half years. I overlook everything that has to do with the b two b side of things. Plus, I recently also started taking the Solana initiative, wherein we are helping users move from EVM to Solana. We are helping dapps on Solana onboard new users from the EVM side of things. So, yeah, overall, look after the growth at Lefi. And over to you, man.
Introducing Den
Yeah, I'm Itai. I'm one of the co founders of Den. We are the fastest multi sig for on chain teams. We make it easy for any team that's operating on chain to self custody their assets, and do whatever it is they need to do on chain, whether it's do payroll, make payments, even send fiat directly to bank accounts, swap tokens, bridge tokens, interact with Defi, and manage their own protocols. And, yeah, we've been working closely with Lefi on some pretty important initiatives that I'm sure we'll talk about. But Den was originally founded after Constitutiondao, where my co founder, Jonah and I saw firsthand how hard it was for a team to manage assets on chain and do just about anything. And that was the origin of Den.
Exploring the Future of DeFi
Nice. Nice. So I think we can get started with Defi in general, and personally, your outlook towards where Defi is being headed. So two things that I particularly wanted to discuss, and, of course, you can add on to this, which is Solana and deepen, because, hey, personal bias that we recently went live on Solana, so I would want to cover that. Plus, I really like the sort of speech which the hivemappers founder gave in token. So I also want to get your thoughts onto that. So just to start off, man, like, does den support Solana? And then we can deep dive into the.
Current Status of Den
Definitely, yeah. Den today does not support Solana. Den is on a host of different EvM, both l one s and l two s. And so far today, Den is not on Solana. And the reason why we're not on Solana so far is just that's a not where our customers have been historically. And right now, we're deep in this EVM ecosystem. But over time, I do suspect that the puck will continue to skate in Solana, or at least the SVM's direction, and we might feel the pull from our customers to move over to Solana. I've got theories as to why, but that's kind of like, my high level outlook, and I'm kind of curious. You know, obviously, you're heading up the Solana initiative. What's behind that? You know, why Solana? What are you all seeing?
Insights on Solana
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And just to, like, add one point to what you just said, like, I have talked to almost all the biggest players in Solana, and there's, like, two schools of thoughts. One is that, hey, we do not want to prioritize EVM users at all. The second one is, we already have been using a bridging feature, quote, unquote, so that we can have the volume, we can get new users. Because, let's be honest, EVM still has the most amount of users and volume. So I was really curious in the sense, like, why is that? Why are projects, like, on the end of two spectrum? End of, like, the spectrums? So, still trying to find out the solution for this, but, like, the main reason why we.
Continuing the Discussion
Think we lost. Yeah, the last thing I heard was wire projects on the. And then we lost you. Yeah, loud and clear. Perfect. So, yeah, just to repeat myself, like, there are two schools of thoughts with Solana projects right now. The first one is that we do not want to prioritize EVM users because, truth being told, we would rather let the Solana ecosystem grow as opposed to get EVM users. The second thought process is that, hey, we really want EVM users. And we have been using a bridging feature to onboard those users since the last one and a half years, or something like, to name a few.
Integration and Growth Prospects
Look at Soulflare, for example. They partnered up with dbridge, I mean, long time ago, so that they can get those EVM users on Solana. And the other thought process is, no, we don't want that at all. So I'm still trying to understand the deep reason behind why this is. But, like, I would be really curious to know that, like, why do, like, why have projects literally split up into two buckets wherein one, like, EVM users and one do not like them? Now, coming to the point of why did we integrate Solana? It's all because of the traction that we had seen. Like, jumper users, for example, really wanted to come to Solana because the hype train is going on.
Interest in Solana's Future
Solana, this pump, fun. Everyone wanted to train. Shit.
Understanding EVM and Solana Integration
Coins, meme coins. So they were like, hey, I'm a native EVM user. How am I supposed to get the best price plus get a few options as well to get my funds onto Solana? So that was on the b two c side of things. On the b two b side of things, meaning leafy. Our clients, like the wallets, the Dapps, they were also like, hey, we would really want to have Solana as an ecosystem because we see the potential in it. And it's like, hey, we would rather collaborate together as opposed to treat Solana as an outsider. So that was really the thought process behind it. And Phantom was one of the first integrations that had integrated leafy for Solana. And it's been a few months now. I believe January was the date when they had integrated Lefi. They have done close to 300 million in total volume. And they love it, to be honest. And me personally, also, like, personal bias, again, like, I would really want to push this moment forward of helping users move from EVM to Solana.
The Separation Between EVM and Solana Ecosystems
Yeah, honestly, I have to think that a lot of the separation between the Solana ecosystem and the EVM ecosystems. So, I mean, one, right, like, of course they're getting more intermingled every day, but they're still really separate ecosystems. But let's take it back two years ago, three years ago, they were totally separate. And even two, three years ago, there was this hate or vitriol that the two groups had towards each other. Of course, the EVM group viewed Solana as this centralized, almost non serious ecosystem and then the Solana ecosystem viewed the EVM ecosystem as totally out of touch. What are you talking about? People need lower fees, people need speed. You can't really build applications, and people don't care that much about decentralization or it's not as centralized as you'd say. But those were kind of the arguments that people threw at each other two or three years ago. And over time, you've started to see that the groups intermingle. But I think at a certain level, it is just a human problem of two communities that once we’re really at each other's throats now, a lot of people on the EVM side are kind of wisening up to Solana.
The Evolution and Dynamics of Both Ecosystems
They see that there are applications, even if it's just pump fun or something else, that are really blowing up on Solana. Most people in our circles that are in the EVM world have done something on Solana, even if it's just trade meme coins when it was real fun during the crazy pump fun phase. I think it's going away, but I think it's really just this emotional problem of why the two groups are separate, just two communities that didn't like each other. And then I do think there's a little bit of a technical gap, which is, as a developer, I could tell you it's quite different building something on EVM versus SVM. It's just totally different virtual machines. And not only they different virtual machines, you have to operate in a different language, in a totally different paradigm. There are different security gaps that you need to be aware of, different kind of best practices, so that nothing gets compromised. And so people are forced to pick a side, and then both sides still kind of have, like, this tribal mentality from the past.
Tribal Mentality and Future Implications
And I think what's going to happen is the tribal mentality goes away over time, especially as more applications go viral on Solana, just like pump fund, more people have a reason to go there, and it becomes more and more normalized for people on the EVM space. And then there will really only be that technical barrier, and people will get over it. People build applications for both iOS and Android; they'll get over it. I'm sure someone will write a language or a compiler that'll somehow abstract away the nuances of SVM and EVM to let developers build for both at the same time, similar to how react native lets you build an iOS and Android app at the same time, and even that barrier will go away, and it just. it won't matter that much. But I think that's why right now there's kind of the separation. And that's also, you know, some of my thinking on where it'll go and how it'll change, where the communities will start to converge into one.
Merging EVM and SVM Technologies
Interesting. And talking about, you know, kind of merging the two technologies, shadow to eclipse, like they are sort of an EVM L two powered by SVM. So there are companies and projects trying to merge the two in such a way that, hey, you can get access to both, the best of both worlds and not have to sort of pivot for the lack of better word. And I would also be interested in knowing your thoughts about the price stuff like soul flipping eth, for example, because Kyle touched, Kyle from multicoin touched about this at token. So curious to hear your thoughts. Like, do you think that is really going to happen? Which is Seoul will flip ETH because it hasn't been shipping anything since the last eight years. The Ethereum community is still confused, so as to what are we going to ship? Even if they know what are we going to ship, they take like years to just go live with the feature. Like, do you think that is going to happen?
Challenges with Price Predictions
So, you know, I just, I can't ever make a prediction on the price of something because historically I'm the worst short term trader that's ever existed, believe me. Like, I. Whatever I say, it'll end up being wrong. I've. Long term, I can nail it. Sometimes short term, I don't even know if it's possible to nail it. But what I. The way I think about it is usage. How do you get people to use whatever it is that you're building? Ideally, usually you're building something so that other people use it. Sometimes you build things for yourself, but broadly speaking, you build things for other people, whether it's an application or a protocol. And I think about this a lot with Den, but it's really what provides a lot of value to people, what gets them to use it. And when it comes to these general purpose blockchains, whether it's Ethereum, Mainnet or some L two s, EvM or SVM L two s, or just Solana in general, the things that provide the most utility, like what gets people to really use it.
Network Effects and Its Impact
I really think first and foremost, the most important thing is network effects. For example, at Den we service a lot of the top DeFi protocols in the EVM world, and a lot of these protocols exist on L two s, but their main operations start and end on Mainnet, despite the high fees, despite the slowness of block confirmation times. And the reason why is network effects, because Ethereum Mainnet has been around for so long, there are so many gaps and protocols and just wallets and people on it, which means any new person that comes in gets so much more utility. You could create the cheapest, fastest network in the world, the cheapest and fastest blockchain, or L two or L three, what have you. But if there is literally no one on there, it doesn't matter. If there's no liquidity there, from a DeFi perspective, it doesn't matter, it's not useful. And I think that's really the reason why Mainnet L one is still around and why it's still top dog for now.
The Future of Multi-Layer Networks
I think the L two hypothesis, or the L two direction that the Ethereum foundation is heading in might hurt that network effect. If people start primarily transacting on these L two s, all the network effects become fragmented. And the thing with network effects is one plus one equals three. But then if you split up the two numbers again, it's just one and one. And I think that's one of the issues with the L two hypothesis. And on the flip side, I think what Solana is doing right, you know, I don't follow Solana L two s that much I know some exist, but what I know is, you know, Solana, if it's fast and cheap and everyone starts to go there, it can accrue a network effect more and it's starting to accrue that network effect. While Ethereum Mainnet seems to be slowly losing its network effect to L two s and, you know, also to Solana.
The Predicament of Short-Term Predictions
So I, you know, I can't ever make a prediction short term because just my track record doesn't speak for itself. But in terms of usage at least, it seems like there's a pretty good case that Solana's usage is going to continue to go up and up, and maybe eventually it'll surpass Ethereum Mainnet. It's hard to say because Ethereum Mainnets and the Ethereum L two network effects are still so entrenched. So it's hard to say if anything can ever, you know, surpass it because it's already kind of had that flywheel take off. But it does seem like Solana's flywheel is also taking off in that regard. That's just how I think about it. And I think if anything will ever surpass Ethereum Mainnet, at least in the next 10 to 20 years, it would be Solana.
The Landscape Beyond DeFi
I don't think anything else would hold a flame to it. Oh. So going back to the usage thing, I definitely and strongly believe that Solana will lead when it comes to anything outside of DeFi. Because look at DeFi, for example, or look at anything outside of DeFi. Like, those projects generally prefer building on top of Solana as opposed to Ethereum or Cosmos. So I can understand that things are new and it definitely sounds like Ethereum had the first movers advantage and does have the distribution. So flipping, I also don't really know if it will or not. I definitely do believe that both these chains and other L two s or other non EVM chains like Cosmos Aptos will coexist.
Navigating Future Collaborations
It definitely will try to find its own ICP. But, like, what about svns? Like, I understand, like, this is not your area of expertise. Like, Solana's whole, and I know we are going way too deep into Solana. Like, Solana's whole value prop was, hey, it's going to be faster, it's going to be cheaper.
High Gas Fees and Layer Twos
You wouldn't have to rely on those high gas fees like led to are coming up on salon. So, like, there is fundamentally something that was still, that is still going wrong on the main l one that they have to start building l two s. Right? So, I mean, a question for us maybe, like, how do we think about layer twos at leafy? Because it's one thing to connect EVM chains and then there's another to connect virtual machines, and that is very difficult. Like connecting EVM with Solana, connecting EvM with bitcoin. Cosmos. Like, clients now want bitcoin to Solana swaps. They're like, hey, we want to have those bitcoin maxis coming on Solana. We're like, okay, sure, but how do you expect bridges to really work that way? Because it's like a technical thing. It's really difficult on the back end to combine these two ecosystems, you know?
Fragmented Liquidity and User Experience
Yeah, I think what you're saying is so right. And one thing we see from a lot of the teams that use den is it's not enough to simply bridge tokens too well, first of all, bridging tokens is incredibly important. Fragmented liquidity creates crazy problems for every network, for every user. Bridging tokens, it has to be done. But even going a step further, it's like you mentioned, let's take Solana's example of most dapps are pretty well suited for that kind of network with low fees and high speeds or even EVM l two s similar, but the experience of having to first bridge, then interact with something on a different network. It's almost like I'm leaving my house, walking down the street, then entering a new building instead of being able to just do it from my house. I guess what I'm getting at is one thing that we'll end up seeing in the next ten ish years, maybe way sooner, maybe five, maybe even one year. But it's more cross chain interoperability that's not just token based, not just bridging tokens, but is actually interacting with dapps that are on different chains without really leaving your home chain, really kind of abstracting it all away.
Interacting with Different Networks
If I have my primary funds on Mainnet Ethereum, I can still interact with adapt on Solana without having to bridge tokens over without really me having to change my wallet network or anything. I can just stay on Mainnet, been interact with something on another network. And I think that's where folks have a really hard time, where that's the major boulder that Lefi has to lift or whoever else is working on this problem, which is interacting with other contracts or decentralized applications on different networks, bridging that gap between the SVM and the EVM. Oh man, I'm glad I'm not the one working on that problem, I'll tell you that. And hey, internally we have this thesis of interop is the end game. Because if you were to look at all the wallets right now, all the apps or call them dapps, like this thesis is playing out that every single one of them is building their own chain, be it a roll up or be it their own l one, whatever.
Onboarding Users with Connectivity
Fast forward to five years. They would want to connect their chain to others because that is how they're going to onboard new users, that is how they're going to help users have their own, dapps in general would have their own ecosystem, sort of. So without interrupt, it is going to fail. Like who is going to connect all of these chains together? Right? Yeah, and I, you know, it's interesting because I think we're starting to see, you know, at least in the EVM world, some of the, well, let's not call them necessarily RAS providers, but some of the l two stacks, let's use Polygon as an example just because they're near and dear to us. But the ag layer from Polygon, the aggregation layer that stands to connect and make all polygon l two s interoperable, is a big movement in that direction. So it's so clear that there's a huge problem there.
Progress in Solving Connectivity Issues
And it's so clear that people are working on different types of solutions, trying to interconnect everything. But, man, what we really need is everything's gotta be interconnected, everything's got to be abstracted. I really do think that this is one of the biggest obstacles that we have as a space. Oh, for sure. And I was talking to this principal from this fund the other day, and he was like, hey, I was writing this research paper the other day, and he was like, I always start off with, interop is still the biggest thing that needs to be solved. And two years ago, his thesis was still the same, hey, interop is the biggest thing that needs to be solved. So it's like taking so long just to nail this thing down. And to be honest, we have made progress. But when you look at it and zoom it out all the way, it's like a tiny blip.
Evolving Solutions and Patience
Because we started off with bridges being just liquidity pools deployed on other chains. Then we got to know about these hacks that, hey, anyone can hack these liquidity pools, take away all the users funds. Then we moved on to having messaging bridges. Now we have intent based bridges. So, like, we are making progress. But from an outsider perspective, it's like, yo, like, are we really? But yeah, I think things will take time. And interestingly, there was this study that I was looking at which talked about how Uber burned literally $30 billion over the course of nine to ten years just for them to become profitable. So it's like we talk about, like, we are judging ourselves over a course of two years and being like, hey, why aren't we unicorns? Why aren't we? What happened? We nailed down everything. It's like, hey, it's going to take time, right?
Learning from Other Companies
The biggest of the companies, Airbnbs of the world, Uber, Doordash. Like, it took them so many years. And the phase, if you were to, I can share those research papers after this, or I can just drop them in the comments. It was on the lines of, hey, the interest rates were really low and the VC's back in 2010 were really looking to be risky because they had the money. They were willing to spend this money to just, you know, sort of grow these companies. So, like, things will take time and moving on. Do I want to spend more time on this one particular topic, talking more about then, like, how are things going? Because I internally know how you guys have been growing. If you could just help the community understand more about what you guys have been cooking, what are your future plans? And then we can talk about the integration.
Den's Recent Developments
Definitely, yeah. Things at Den have been pretty exciting. We recently crossed over a billion dollars in transaction volume. So that's the amount of money that teams have been using Den to transact. And we have been helping them with all their operations. And again, a lot of our customers are internal in crypto. You could say that we service the crypto industry and that wouldn't be totally inaccurate. A lot of our customers are defi protocols, and we solve problems for them and help them not just manage their assets and self custody on chain, but also manage their protocols. And it really interweaves with this whole multi chain conversation.
Collaboration between Den and Lefi
Also, what brought Den and Lefi together, which is a lot of the protocols that we service, started to move onto new l two s. Still the EVM ecosystem, but a new l two comes up, they see an opportunity to expand their protocol there. Of course, if your team, you're using a smart account, you're using a multisig, because, of course, you can't use an EOA as your wallet to self custody your funds for security reasons. And you end up having really difficult problems surrounding both. Swapping tokens when it comes to smart accounts and also bridging tokens to these other chains, there's a lot of nuances as to why, but usually it has to do with time delays, in quotes. It takes a while to execute a transaction as a team because you need to get a whole bunch of people to sign off on. It's not just one person.
The Pain points of Team Transactions
And that makes bridging and swapping exceptionally painful. And that's where Lefi and Den come into play together, where we worked with you all, Lefi, to implement the bridge and swap feature. It worked seamlessly. It works great. If you ever need to bridge and swap a token from a smart account, it just works. And that wasn't the case before. So it all ties back to this multi chain conversation. It ties back to the progress that you all have made in solving it. Thanks for the Sharon, man. I appreciate the good words.
Differentiating in a Competitive Space
I was really curious to know, like, how do you guys differentiate yourself? Because it's like, from the buyers perspective, they can't really differentiate two products when it comes to, you know, managing funds or let's say, in general, like the whole on chain team narrative, right? I believe it's coin shift or other companies as well, who are on similar lines with you. So, like, how do you guys try to differentiate yourself so that the end customer does know that, hey, these are the pros and cons of using you guys over others.
Understanding Differentiation in Strategies
One is kind of in the nitty gritty details, the features. You know, we've got this, they don't have this, they have this, we don't have this. But then there's also at the higher level, how they differentiate. What's the high level strategy? What is your philosophy? And really with done, we kind of stumbled upon this non consensus secret. It used to not be so secret, but these days it became very non consensus. But conventional wisdom these days has become to go down and solve one extremely narrow problem, do one thing and do it right. We've all heard this advice, and it's usually kind of brought down on stone tablets from a mountain. And it can be really good advice. But what's sort of happened is it became conventional wisdom and the consensus opinion still presented as, you know, the sage wisdom. But it really is kind of the herd mentality.
Narrow Focus versus Wide Problem-Solving
Now go narrow. Go narrow. One really narrow problem, and it can work, and it works great all the time, but it completely depends on the target customer and their problem set. Some customers do just have this really narrow problem, and you should just solve this really narrow problem. But some customers, it depends on who your target customer is, actually have a very wide variety of problems, and there's a synergistic effect by solving multiple of them. And that's kind of done secret, and that's how we're different. We call it comprehensiveness. That's our strategy. One thing that we found through talking to so many of our customers is they need to be able to do everything on chain in one place. The data flow. When they're creating their address book, they want it available everywhere.
Integral Comprehensive Solutions
When they're categorizing transactions as they're creating it, they want it to be available automatically in their bookkeeping. Some of these aren't that sexy, but it's the truth. What we've discovered is people really need this comprehensive solution that integrates everything, and that's really what makes Sen different. While everyone else is focusing one narrow, vertical and admittedly doing well in them, we found that our customers actually don't want that. They want one place where they can do everything and we can actually provide a better experience on each one of those different problems or solutions when everything's integrated together. And that's really the main difference. Not only can they run payroll, manage expense reimbursements, do their on chain bookkeeping, send payments, do invoicing, all in done, but they can interact with DeFi, they can interact with Dapps, and they can even manage and deploy their own protocols, which is what they do with den.
Growth Journey and Customer Engagement
And how long have you guys been live? Like, how long have you been working on this? We've been around for, let's say, now. I can tell you we've been around since basically January of 2022. So we came around just on the heels of Constitution Dow, which is when my co founder and I first experienced the issues firsthand. We first discovered how hard it was to manage any funds on chain as an organization when were having to send a single transaction on behalf of Constitutiondao. And that's what started it all. Nice. I asked because, like, you guys have been growing tremendously. Like, I see you guys on Twitter, on socials, I already know that you guys have done over a billion in terms of the transactions done close to like 500 companies using you all for everything related to doing stuff, when it comes to, you know, sending money, anything related to team stuff.
Future Directions and Customer Feedback
So nice. How do you see things shaping up when it comes to your niche specifically? Like, are there any specific features that you guys are gonna ship because your customers are asking for that? Like, do you plan on continuing what you're doing, plan on pivoting a bit? Like, how do you see your niche shaping up, if that makes sense? Yeah, definitely. Well, you know, we're in the fortunate position that what we're doing, we're seeing working. What we're doing specifically is spending as much time as possible with the teams that are using den. We've got such a close pulse check on our customers, and we try to remove any ideas of us being geniuses and having to come up with our own ideas. Our customers are a roadmap, and that's been really working for us.
Enhancing Offerings Through Customer Insights
And so really where things are going is, at least for us, is just continuing to listen to them. And that means continuing to increase some of the comprehensiveness of our offering. At this point, we are pretty comprehensive, but there are still some smaller things that we can do, especially in terms of chain abstraction, in terms of role based access control for different accounts, and making certain operations even easier and smoother. And that's kind of where things are going, generally more team abstraction, generally more crypto to fiat transactions, and also some more of the just general organizational and team operations that our customers need. Features specific to payroll, expense reimbursements and so on.
Engagement with Traditional Finance
What about onboarding, like web two companies? I know this might be a vague question, but, like, I know you all only cater to web three companies. But have you guys been in touch or do you guys also cater to like companies that are purely tradfi looking into crypto, wanna manage and send money stuff across crypto and they wanna. Or they're just, they. Their curiosity peaked in the sense, hey, we wanna do everything related to the accounting stuff on chain. Like is that a vertical that has been playing out with you guys or something that you want to do in the future? Oh, yeah. And that's been really exciting. So I'm not at liberty to give out names or logos off the bat.
Expanding to New Frontiers
Right here. We usually like to be pretty careful and ask for permission first. But some big organizations, web two, some of them as web two, or let's call them just traditional or retail as they get, have recently been reaching out to us. And it's because there's this trend of more traditional businesses just simply adding cryptocurrency as a payment method. Right. As you know, sometimes you'll go and check out of some store online and you might just see like a credit card, I don't know, apple cash, maybe PayPal, and then pay with crypto as a option in the kind of select box. And you're starting to see this with bigger and bigger brands. And as soon as one of these big brands adds in one of these pay with crypto features, they suddenly have all the pains of operating on chain as an organization.
The Excitement of New Developments
And it's been really exciting. Not just as Itai, co founder of Den, but also as Itai, just enthusiasts of self custody and the on chain ecosystem. It's been so exciting to see that as people accept payment on chain, all of a sudden they start acting on chain. It's so cool because it's like we get to see the. See it firsthand. But yeah, to answer your question, even though we're not deliberately skating there yet, we think there's still some really crazy things we can do for crypto native organizations. They're starting to come to us, which has been awesome. Love it, love it.
Closing Remarks and Future Outlook
I know we are already over time, so I would quickly want to take questions from the community, if they have any. I know we are already low on audience today, but guys, if you have any questions with regards to then or leifey, feel free to raise your hand. I guess not perfect. I guess. You did a very good job in terms of explaining everybody, your thesis, your thoughts about then and everything else. So any ending thoughts, man, like anything for the audience that you would want to let them know? Anything Alpha or anything in general? Yeah, well, Alpha is basically, you know, follow the leafy Twitter account for any leafy Alpha or announcements as soon as they come out.
Final Thoughts and Farewell
Same thing with the den account. They're both listening here and, you know, stay on chain, stay self custody, and, you know, watch out for the next couple years, maybe even next few months, and see if any of these predictions end up being true. I'm definitely going to be. Let's go. Really appreciate you tuning in today, man, and the people that join in today. Looking forward to the next spaces, guys. Until then, have a good one. Bye bye. Thanks.
