Is Tithing just for the Old Testament?

Space Summary

The Twitter Space Is Tithing just for the Old Testament? hosted by churchtalkative. The Twitter space delved into the timeless discussion of tithing, exploring its relevance and interpretations in contemporary Christian practices. From its historical roots to modern-day applications, participants examined the multifaceted nature of tithing, touching on issues of generosity, faith, and church stewardship. The conversation emphasized the evolving dimensions of tithing, from financial contributions to holistic offerings of time and talents. Furthermore, the importance of transparency and spiritual intention behind tithing was underscored, reflecting a broader dialogue within the Christian community.

For more spaces, visit the Alpha Group page.

Questions

Q: Is tithing exclusively an Old Testament practice?
A: While its origins are in the Old Testament, tithing is still debated and practiced by many Christians today.

Q: How do different Christian denominations interpret tithing differently?
A: Various denominations have varying guidelines on tithing percentages, frequency, and how it should be allocated.

Q: What is the significance of the heart behind tithing?
A: The intent and attitude of giving are considered crucial in tithing, reflecting one's faith and devotion.

Q: Can tithing go beyond monetary donations?
A: Tithing can encompass offerings of time, skills, and other resources beyond financial contributions.

Q: How has the concept of tithing evolved over time?
A: Tithing practices have adapted to modern contexts, allowing for flexibility in how individuals engage with the concept.

Q: Why is transparency important in tithing practices?
A: Transparency ensures trust and accountability in how tithes are collected, managed, and used by religious institutions.

Highlights

Time: 00:05:42
Historical Roots of Tithing Exploring the origins of tithing in ancient scriptures and its evolution over time.

Time: 00:15:18
Interpretation Variations Across Christian Groups Understanding how different denominations approach and enforce tithing guidelines.

Time: 00:25:50
Tithing in Modern Societal Context Discussing the relevance and challenges of tithing in the contemporary world.

Time: 00:35:26
Spiritual Aspects of Tithing Examining tithing as a spiritual practice and its impact on personal faith.

Time: 00:45:09
Debates on Tithing Allocation Debating where tithes should go and how they should be used for community benefit.

Time: 00:55:33
Tithing as a Form of Worship Viewing tithing not just as giving but as a way to worship and honor spiritual commitments.

Key Takeaways

• Tithing is a concept deeply rooted in biblical teachings and has historical significance.
• Different denominations and individuals interpret tithing rules and practices diversely.
• The debate over tithing often revolves around the percentage to give and whether it should be gross or net income.
• Understanding the heart behind tithing is crucial, emphasizing generosity, gratitude, and supporting the church's mission.
• Modern challenges such as financial constraints and skepticism towards organized religion impact attitudes towards tithing.
• Tithing extends beyond monetary contributions and can include time, talents, and resources.
• The concept of tithing has evolved over time, adapting to contemporary societal norms and Christian beliefs.
• Personal reflection and spiritual discernment play a significant role in how individuals approach tithing practices.
• Tithing is viewed not just as an obligation but also as an act of faith and obedience in many faith communities.
• The discussion highlighted the importance of transparency and accountability in how tithes are managed and utilized by churches.

Behind the Mic

Introduction and Podcast Promotion

We have Sal Grover, Celine against the machine, some people from Australia talking about what's been going on over there, and some guests as well. We're going to have time for questions and comments, and we're going to start in ten minutes. Right now, we're going to play a clip from this week's episode of our podcast, the dark side of the Rainbow gaze against groomers. You can listen to it on Spotify, Apple, and anywhere. You can listen to podcasts, I heart as well. And we're going to start in ten. And until then, just we go.

Launch of Gays Against Groomers' Book

Hi, this is Jamie Michelle, the founder and president of Gays Against Groomers. I'm so excited to let you know that our organization just launched our first book. That's right, gays against groomers now has a book. It's called the gender trap the Trans Agendas War against children, and it is the book the radical gender mob does not want you to read if you are a parent whose son or daughter is questioning their identity, if you are puzzled by how the radical. Hey, Celine, can you say testing? One, two, three. Testing 123? Okay, love it. We're going to be loading people in the panel and then start top of the hour.

Stephen Scare's Experience at the Pride Parade

So I was just playing a clip from our podcast from this week, and as people enter, we'll come through. All right, thanks for hanging tight, guys. Talk to you in a few. The transgender movement has penetrated every area of life. If you feel abandoned by an ideology that distorts everything you always knew to be objectively true, if you have ever been ostracized simply for pointing out the obvious, or if you just want to know what on earth is going on, this book is for you. The gender trap is available for pre order right now. Head to thegendertrap.com to get yourself a copy today. I promise you're not going to want to miss this. And if you'd like to support gays against groomers and the work we do to end the war on children, please head to gaysagainsgroomers.com for ways to donate, get our official merchandise, or even join the team. Thank you so much for your support. And enjoy the episode.

Introduction of Guest Steven Scare

I'm your host, Robert Wallace, and this is a gaze against groomers production. Today we have Steven scare with us. He is running for Senate in New Hampshire, and he's been doing a lot of work to protect children from the LGBTQIA ideology that's attacking all over the place. How you doing, Stephen? I'm doing well. How about you? I'm doing fantastic. So we were just talking right before we got on, and you were in the midst of just dealing with some police because you went out to the pride parade. We're doing your due diligence to spread the good word of protecting kids. And you ran into some issues, it sounds like.

Confrontations at the Pride Parade

Yeah, I was standing around the parade route in my own town, which it's a very safe town. And while I was there, a man really just lost his temper and he came by to block me. And that always happens when I go to one of these parades. People smirk and then they stand in front of me as if it's an original idea. But then this guy turned around, big muscular guy, and got inches from me and pushed his umbrella against my hat and just kept on repeating things again and again, like, your sky Santa isn't real. Grow up again and again or your family hates you. Your family hates you. And then he eventually went after my wife, who is there, too, and much smaller. There was a police officer in the vicinity, and he called out for him.

Police Involvement and Safety Concerns

As this guy was taking, hey, everybody, for people who are just entering the space, we're going to be starting in five minutes. We have Sal Grover coming through. We also have a few other guests who are here to talk about what's been going on with Celine and her free speech case and to learn for our audience to learn about tickle versus giggle and the whole debacle that's been going on down under. And right now we're listening to a clip from our podcast, the dark side of the Rainbow, this week's sidewalk. Steve was the guest, and he's telling his story about attending a pride parade. And we're just getting our speakers loaded up right now, and we'll start in five. But we appreciate your patience and we're excited to have this conversation tonight.

Continuing Discussion on Safety and Accountability

Eventually, this guy left. And I went over to the police officer and said, what happened there? And his explanation was that the man was several feet away. I never got close. As a matter of fact, this guy was pushing against us. So I was talking with, had the police come over, file a report. And I'm talking to the police chief, too, about what happened. And, well, I'm sorry you went through that. And that is one of the unfortunate prices of speaking against these mob mentality is they have a tendency to come up against you and try to threaten and intimidate. Were the police able to give you any sort of precautionary, hey there, Miss Salgr.

Organizational Updates and Support

We're just playing a clip from this week's episode of our podcast, the dark side of the rainbow and letting people up to the panel. We're starting at the top of the hour, so in five minutes. But can you just test out your microphone for us real quick and say, testing one, two, three. We're so happy to speak with you today. Thank you so much for having me. Testing one, two, three. Lovely. You sound amazing. All right, guys, we'll be live in five. And hang tight. Thanks so much, Sal measures for the next time.

Introduction to Giggle and Its Purpose

What they said is, well, first of all, they told me they had a free speech area that I didn't know of. And the free speech area wasn't along the parade route. It was by the festival. And I said, you know, if I want to be here, what should I do, just call you and let you know? And they said, yeah, they'll take care of me. They'll send a police officer over to watch me if I give them an indication of where I stand. They also watched the video and they said they're going to talk to this guy and see about pressing some charges. But the one thing that I didn't do that explicit, according to law, even though it was implied, I just be really clear. Get away from me. Get back. Get away from me. Repeating those magic words is something that I didn't do.

Legal Ramifications and Activism

The good thing is that the police officer was really sympathetic and it demonstrated one of the really important things about wherever you're speaking out against this stuff, that we're the sane ones, we really need to show that. And he admired how calm I was and how calm my wife was and that we didn't reciprocate that hatred and anger that were getting. Excellent. Yeah, that's good advice. Call the cops, let them know you're going to be there. Wave any sort of tacit agreement to what they're doing by letting them know, hey, don't stand here, even though that should be kind of implied common sense, so kind of crazy, but it's good you remain calm more and more.

Insights on Confrontations and Responses

When I'm going out, usually I get nothing, but some days I get nothing but support or someone will say, f you, or you're wrong and they'll run away as quickly as they can. All right. Hey, guys, last message. So we're going to be starting in two minutes. I know people are currently, like coming in and out and we're going to be talking to Sal Grover tonight about her court case. And just America is going to be floored when they find out about what's going down in Australia, and we have seen against the machine is here as well. And we have some friends joining us later.

Exploring the Free Speech Case in Australia

Usually we go just for an hour, but we can go over time tonight with all the speakers that we have coming up. But first, we're going to be talking to Sal, and if you want to, if you, eventually we're going to have a point where if you have any comments or questions, then you can send a request and we'll have you up. But we'll bring palace up here and someone else, and then we'll go live. So I'll talk to you in a few minutes, guys. Thanks so much for being patient. And once in a while, I get the kind of autistic young person who loves to recite his catechism.

Understanding Gender Ideology in Australia

About the only 1% regret, 2% detransition, 70% suicide rate, or whatever they're up to right now. And I'll respond to that, but that's really rare. But what I'm seeing more and more from the people that do confront me, that disagree with me, is just downright antifa tactics. You know, I've had run ins with antifa, and I'm seeing that from the same script from people that aren't antifa. They're getting the same kind of training. Just something I've got to get a little more used to responding to. Wow.

Steven's Political Involvement

Yeah. That is a difficult combination of counter protesting to deal with, for sure. What got you involved in your political pursuit here for your senatorial run in New Hampshire? My senatorial run, no one else was running. It's the second time that I'm running, and it's every two years. So two years ago, essentially, my wife drove me to do it. I said, if no one else is going to run, just give people a choice. I'll be on the ballot this time. I'm running specifically to stop young people from being exploited by the medical industry and to keep men out of women's sports and private spaces.

Sal Grover's Experience with the Giggle App

So as I'm doing my, I went back and I did my campaign page. In a room, a cool palace. Mic check. Testing. One, two, three. Testing, testing. All right, awesome. So we can start now, everybody. So tonight you're listening to our spaces that we do Thursdays, 08:00 p.m. eastern. We go live to talk to guests. Sometimes we have parents we bring up here. We have members who we're highlighting. We have updates from our organizations that we do.

Launch and Features of the Giggle App

We kind of use this time on Thursdays to, you know, do a team huddle and maybe sometimes speak to someone special. Tonight we have a very important guest, though, Michelle Grover from Australia. So we spoke to Australia a few weeks ago with what was going on with Celine and her getting censored. And it really showed us a lot the reason why. You see a lot of support coming out of Australia for their spokespeople. It's very apparent that the people who are there are so silenced and can don't have the free speech that Americans maybe sometimes take for granted in this fight.

The Current Situation in Australia

And it just seems to be getting more and more bizarre. People will. People have described Australia like it is this anti free speech hellhole. You can't even state material reality. And recently, you've been seeing lawsuits pop up that pretty much addressed exactly that issue. For instance, humans can't change sex. But as we're going to learn tonight, there was a lawsuit that had a verdict, I think, in the high courts that apparently men can be female and that women don't deserve their own spaces and stuff and right to self definition.

Dystopian Reality of Legal Definitions

It's dystopian, almost. But tonight, we want to learn about giggle versus tickle. We've been awaiting. This has been in the works for a long time. We actually didn't even know when we scheduled this that she was going to be all over the news within a few weeks, and we knew that she had, like, an up and coming case. But Sal Grover, can you introduce yourself to our audience? And a lot of people in America don't know the ins and outs of your case or even how things work, but what is giggle? Let's start there.

Development and Features of the Giggle App

So you created a. An app for women. Can you just tell everybody what's going on? I did. So thank you so much for having me. So basically, I, along with my mom actually was the one who had the idea. We decided to create a social networking app for women. And it was a lot of, basically, a lot of apps in one. We tried to, when we, after we got the idea, instead of developing it, were like, well, there's lots of different reasons why a woman would want an online woman-only space.

Exploration of Women's Online Spaces

Since we're, like, finding roommates, finding freelance work, lesbian dating, we had, like, a female only Twitter style feed, general emotional support. Like, I mean, there was even a place we could go and, like, find someone, like, to be pen pals with if you wanted to take it offline. Like, we just tried to think of literally everything. And so we got the idea in the end of 2018, then developed it and got it built throughout 2019. And it was on the app store on Google Play for beta testing. At the beginning of 2020, only a handful of women around the world knew about it.

The Creation of Giggle and Its Meaning

All of our security measures weren't in place. And basically, when we were developing it, at the very beginning, it was like, how on earth would you even have an online female in this space? Like, how would you keep it female-only? And it was my dad who did the research and found that there was a company that did very badly named gender recognition software. But it's gender in the polite synonym for sex. It's just sex verification. It's just male or female, and it's just AI. That from based on a selfie can tell, or just a photo can tell who's male or female.

Initial Challenges with Giggle

So when I discovered that, I was like, oh, that's. I was so naive. I was like, that's so non-controversial, because we can tell who's male or female just by looking at people. And so that's just taking a really normal human instinct and putting it into something, like, into technology. And we all take a billion selfies every day, so, like, that's just so non-invasive. That's really easy. So we that we at the time didn't have that, in effect, because the app wasn't launched yet.

Unexpected Activism Response to Giggle

Somehow, thousands upon thousands of trans rights activists found us on the 7 February 2020. They infiltrated the app. They did one star reviews, just thousands of them calling us transphobic and bigots and terfs. And I'd actually never heard the word terf before. I didn't know. And so from my memory, I think what I did is I typed it into Twitter. And that's when I found, like, Glynna, like, people I'd never heard of, like Helen Joyce, Kelly, J.

Awakening to Gender Ideology

Jane Claire Jones, Julie Binder, like, all of these women who. Men who were speaking out about it. And then a lot of, like, at the time, there were women who were speaking out were doing it anonymously. So there were lots of anonymous accounts. And I just started reading everything that they were saying. And I was like, what on earth is going on? This is crazy. So I just spent months researching it and found that everything that they were saying was not only true, but the reality was actually worse than that.

Understanding the Ideological Shift

I didn't realize at the time that people had actually already been fighting this for a really long time. In my mind, in the beginning of 2020, I was like, look, this is so absurd that they're saying men are actually women. We just have to stand our ground, and this will. This will blow over. And so I said to my mom, I was like, let's just tread water. Like, this will go away. It will all be fine. I could not have been more wrong.

Deciding to Fight Back

So, basically, we rushed and we unofficially launched the app. We sort of had to just go with it. We put all the security measures in place, removed all the men from it, and then I had to work out how to navigate this world while I was learning everything that was going on. Then I sort of started speaking out. And then in cut to January 2022, I received a complaint from the Australian Human Rights Commission alleging gender identity discrimination because a man who claims to be a woman had tried to use the app, and I had blocked him.

Legal and Ethical Challenges

And so that's. I had to get a lawyer straight away. And that's when I was told that actually there'd been amendments. I still didn't know this until this time, that amendments had been made to the Australian Sex Discrimination Act, which was previously what had allowed female only spaces that they weren't even discrimination to have female-only spaces, that an amendment had been made to put gender identity in it. And so now the law was completely muddled.

Navigating Legal Complications

No one had actually stood up against it. And so I was told, basically, I either my choices were, give in, just go, okay, cool, I'll do whatever he says or fight it. And if I fought it, there was a very high chance that it would go all the way to the High Court. So an Australian Human Rights Commission complaint, if it's not resolved in the Australian Human Rights Commission, like, sort of with a moderator there, then the applicant can file into federal court, and then from there, through appeals, it would go to the High Court.

Refusing to Settle Out of Court

And so I said no to settling it in the Australian Human Rights Commission, because I would have had to let this guy on, let all men who claim to be women on go to sex and gender education and also moderate all of the content from the women on the app so that men who claimed to be women weren't offended by them. And I was like, this is absolutely absurd. I couldn't sleep at night giving into any of that. And also, I would have just shut the app down.

A Call to Action

There was no point to it. So I was like, not only do I want to fight for my startup, but I want to fight. I am a woman. I want my own rights as well, and by extension, everybody else's. And so I said, so then, because it wasn't settled in the AHRC, the applicant, who goes by the name Roxy Tickle, filed in federal court. It actually stayed in federal court for a lot longer than it would normally because he filed, then he withdrew, then he refiled again six months later.

Complex Legal Proceedings

Then it had to, because he was sort of out of time, like it was out of the statute of limitations. Then from an AHRC complaint, the federal court then had to decide whether they would let it go ahead. They did because they deemed it was in the public interest. So then it was a. From that to when it was actually heard in court. Was it just under a year? In that time, the Australian Human Rights Commission intervened in the case to interpret the law like they intervened.

Legal Interpretation and Opposition

It's called amicus Curie, which is a friend of the court. They're there to interpret the law. And they were always against me. They were just always saying men or women. In fact, their submissions are publicly on the federal court website and everyone should read them because it is. They're the most insane things I've ever read, to the point where they say even a man desiring to be pregnant is sufficient for him to be considered a woman in law.

Court Verdict and Implications

So it's just an absolute nightmare. So the case was heard in April, and then we got a verdict, what, three weeks ago today, and the judge declared that sex is changeable. And why he how that even remotely makes sense, because obviously it doesn't, is basically the gender identity was put into the sex Discrimination Act. And what they AHRC has then done is interpret the law that sex is now a legal concept, not a biological concept.

The Fight for Biological Sex Rights

And this is backed up by the fact that on a state level, people can change the sex marker on their birth certificate. So a man who claims to be a woman can go and get his birth certificate changed to say he's female, thus creating the concept of legal sex. Thus a judge says sex is changeable. So that's essentially in Australia, what we have to fight against. We have to get biological sex to have weight in the sex Discrimination Act in law.

Path to Legal Reform

And fortunately, there's a pathway to do this. It's just part of it is taking out the amendments that allow gender identity to be in there and also sort of bringing it back to the intention of the Sex Discrimination act and a bunch of other lots of legal arguments that I would not even dare to try and interpret for anybody because I'm not a legal expert. But so basically, that's where we are now. So we're just in the process of lodging our appeal.

Change in Applicant Status

So the case has always been tickle v. Giggle because he was the applicant, but it is about to become giggle v. Tickle because I will now be the applicant. And I'm quite excited for that in the sense that it feels like for the first two. For the first time in two and a half years, I actually have. I'm being allowed to make a choice. So that's very nice. But so that's basically everything in a nutshell. We can go from there.

Gaining Insight from Informative Discussion

So thank you for all that information, by the way. It's actually really crazy how relevant a lot of it is to what we're dealing with in the United States with things like title ix, gender identity, discrimination on the basis of sex. It's all the way that gender identity is colonizing the law. They're doing it in the same ways, in the same fashion. You see it in Europe, you see it in America, you see it in Australia.

Observations on Global Trends

A few months ago, we even said, oh, Australia's next. And, yeah, something that was really interesting about Sal's story is that she was talking about how when she at first had launched her woman's app, she was kind of presented with the idea of, oh, do we want to allow, quote, trans women is what was presented? And then it wasn't even considered, like, a thing.

Initial Views on Inclusivity

Like, oh, yeah, why not? Let's be accepting. They didn't know what they were getting themselves into. Someone put a picture of Roxy tickle in the comments because the person who was trying to break into this app was clearly like a man in a wig. It's really dystopian. And there was a facial, a point where there was a facial recognition aspect to it. And people, these men were taking pictures of, like, photographs of women and trying, because they're trying to, like, break past the system.

Explaining the Gender Recognition Software

Can you explain that? Something like that happened. They were, like, using fake photos and stuff, too, to try to break in. Why did they want to break into this app so badly? Well, exactly. That's a very valid question, and I think we all essentially know the reason why. It's because how dare women do anything for themselves? It wasn't facial recognition, as I said. It was called gender recognition software, but gender as the politic.

Features That Ensure User Safety

So we also had a liveness feature on it. So it meant that a photo of a photo would instantly be rejected. It could tell if it was a photo of a photo. The two most frequent photos that these morons used were of Miss Piggy and Jennifer Aniston. And so we always had this, like, running joke that, like, one day Jennifer Aniston would actually try to use the app and we'd block her by mistake. Also, I just want to say in I didn't know about this issue.

Unforeseen Challenges with Gender Politics

I had no idea about gender ideology. As I said, I'd never heard the word terf before until February 2020. I do remember I'd heard of the concept of trans in the sense that I'd heard of LGBT, and I was like, okay. Like, you know, I trust them. If there's another letter, let's go with it. But I didn't. I was being a good little progressive. I didn't question anything, didn't even think about it.

Reflecting on Past Naïveté

And I do remember there was one day during the development of giggle that we did have a conversation, and someone said, like, a trans woman, welcome. And I said, yes. I was like, of course they are. And I have thought long and hard about what the hell I was thinking or even talking about. All I can say is, I don't know what I do think if I like. Part of my thing in my mind was that women who call themselves trans.

Perceptions of Trans Identity

So, like, say, a trans man or female with a non-binary, whatever you want to say, like, yes, that they. They were always welcome. Like, say, Buck angel could use giggle. But I wouldn't have been that sophisticated. Even with my thinking at the time, I would have had no idea. But interestingly, during the case, when we would try to explain to the AHRC and the court that because it was on the basis of sex, females with a gender identity were welcome.

Arguments in the Court Case

Because I would always argue that would be gender identity discrimination if I said no to a female on the basis of her having a gender identity. And the AHRC, at one point in one of their submissions, they were just so confused by why. Like, they were like, how would this even make sense if trans men would be able to use it? What is she talking about? And it's like they have completely forgotten about the concept of biological sex.

Consequences of Current Legal Definitions

Like, it's not even on their radar anymore. So, yeah, that's where basically. I mean, that's basically where it's at. And what sort of, you know, we're having to fight for in Australia, because I don't know even if the other side realizes this, but by saying that gender identity has more weight in the sex discrimination act and that sex is a legal concept, not a biological concept, literally, the only people who are benefiting from this in law are men who claim to be women.

Critique of Gender Identity Laws

It's not even men who claim to be non-binary benefit from that in any way. Females with trans identities don't, because everybody else actually does rely on their sex-based rights for when it sex. That is the issue. So whether that is in sports or spaces, it's only men who then get the privilege to go into those spaces in sports, because females with a gender identity cannot compete in the men's sports category, so they rely on their sex-based rights to do sport.

Need for Reform in Gender Identity Laws

So that's just another angle of why this law needs to be fixed, because it literally, it isn't even helping the demographic they claim to be helping. It's just helping men and all. It's actually proving that on the basis of sex, these men have more privilege than anyone else. It's just a new form of sexism. It's crazy. It's just woke sexism. It's what we see happening in the schools with the sports.

Discussion on Gender Identity and Sports Legislation

It's. 5 seconds ago, it was known as something progressive to say that girls deserve their own sports where they can excel and play, just like with other girls. And now it's considered literal sex discrimination here. What they're doing is they're adding categories, gender identity and gender expression, to the category of sex in title ix. And these are just circular ideas that make no sense.

Challenges of Implementing Gender Policies

And when you do so, you don't just cover what they refer to as, quote, transgender. This is the entire gender spectrum. This is gender flux. They're trying to codify genderqueer, gender neutral, no gender, a blank into law, into school documents. It is when you lose that grip of reality in things like public documents and statistics and things that actually matter in terms of public policy, that's just how you're asking for trouble.

Audience Engagement and Discussion

Palace. I see a hand up. Well, first off, this is such a fascinating discussion, and, Sal, thanks so much for enlightening us, because we only know so much from being out here in the states. I have so many questions to ask you, but I think the main question that I do want to ask is, how do you balance the legal requirements with your ethical beliefs in creating a platform like giggle, especially in light of this whole trans. Let's include all the trans people and all of that stuff.

Challenges in Balancing Ethics and Law

How do you find the balance in that? I just have to say, I couldn't hear Pallas speaking. Can you guys hear me now? I can hear palace. Celine, can you hear palace? Sal can't hear palace. I'll ask the question again. Okay, so how do you balance, Sal, the legal requirements in Australia with your ethical beliefs in creating a platform like giggle, especially in light of the fact that it was. You know, Australia tends to be pretty pro trans now.

Maintaining Clarity in Conversations

So I was just wondering, how do you. How do you do that balance with that platform? I don't think she heard palace. Okay, Celine, can you ask the question? Yeah, sure. Hello. Sal, can you hear. Can she hear anybody? I can't hear Celine either. Should I go out? Yeah, go out and come back in. Okay, cool.

Humor Amidst Serious Discussions

Yo, Jennifer Aniston. Oh, my God. I was laughing when she said that. I was like, oh, my God, they. Were sending pictures of Jennifer Aniston. And to fake. That's crazy. Or just taking pictures of photographs. Wild. Jessica. Jessica, if you want to come up to the panel and hit request. I sent you a request, though, but. Or, like, members who wanted to do panel to ask questions and comments.

Return to the Main Topic

So, palace, what were you saying about ethics? Yeah, so I was just wondering, because I have so many questions to ask, but I guess my question for Sal is, you know, how do you balance the legal requirements in Australia with your own ethical beliefs in creating a platform like giggle? That's very, like, specifically made for girls, women only. And also in light of the fact that Australia is now very pro trans, like, how do you find that balance of.

Censorship in Australia

You know, there's been all of that with your hysterical woman, blah, blah. On top of this. However, the problem is that there is extreme censorship in Australia on this issue. We have a very small media landscape, and we've got basically two outlets that will cover this. One of them is Sky News, that are pretty good on it. The other one is the Australian newspaper. But unfortunately, I just. I don't think anyone there understands what is happening, because every time they write about it, there are so many errors. It's quite frustrating, but they are at least trying. Everyone else is completely captured. Although Channel Nine is sort of doing a little bit here and there. So when you've got censorship on the issue, you've got politics and institutions completely captured. You are in quite a. Quite a horrible situation. But at the same time, you then you know exactly what it is, and then that you've got to be able to fight it.

Laws and International Conventions

I didn't know how sort of a lot of laws were created before this, and it's been a great learning process. So a lot of laws, if they're not directly voted in by the people, they're brought in by international conventions and treaties. And it's basically how all countries keep each other in check. When it's working properly, it's a really good thing. Australia's Sex Discrimination Act is based on CEDAW, which is the UN's convention of the Elimination of discrimination against women, and that is a document for biological females. However, the Australian Human Rights Commission does not want that to be acknowledged at all. In fact, in every case, they're in a different case at the moment with lesbian action Group. And the AHRC is desperate for the. For CEDAW to be completely and utterly ignored. For CEDAW to include gender identity and to include men as women, it would basically. It would require the 189 nations that are signatories of it to all agree they never have.

Legal Battles and Judicial Processes

There are a few documents that, because what they do is they sort of try and tinker with the. With everything on the outskirts of it and try and push things in as much as they can. And there's one document that is ratified by all of the nations that says sexual orientation and other status. And their argument is that other status is gender identity. At the moment, the judge accepted that he's wrong. Like, I think that's one of the things that's really important with the Tickle v. Giggle judgment, is that the judgment does not reflect the case. He literally just did not listen to our arguments. We could have turned up there and done an Irish jig for three days and it would not have changed the outcome of this case. But everything is on the record. So part of our defense is doing a constitutional challenge, and that's to repeal the amendments and to establish that sex is biological.

Judgment and Appeal Process

Constitutional challenges are very rarely heard at or acknowledged in federal court, but you have to have it there so that it's part. It can be part of the appeal because you can't bring new information into an appeal. So in terms of him kind of ignoring that, and it's like, yeah, okay, it would have been nice if he. Because you could have literally, there could have been a judge that went, you know what, guys? You're completely right. This law is totally unworkable. So maybe I have to side with this one at the moment, because. Or he could have just put his hands up and gone, this is unworkable. Like it needs. It's good. Of course, it's sex. Totally plausible. That could have happened. We just didn't get a judge that we got a judge that was going. Always going to. We knew. One of the things we just knew was that he was going to listen to the Australian Human Rights Commission.

Rights and Women's Advocacy

So you work as hard as you can to combat that, and that's why you make sure that everything is there for the appeal. So his judgment is a woke activist judgment. It's a bad judgment. However, it's ripe for appeal. It's so bad that in the sense that they don't even. They won't even acknowledge what Giggle actually was. They just tell me what it was. They constantly have said, both the judges now said it and the AHRC said it, that the provision to use Giggle was that you had to look like a cisgender woman. No, not at all. You just had to be female. That was it. But they won't acknowledge it. I think the reason why they won't acknowledge it is because they know we're right and they don't have an argument to combat it.

Reactions to Gender Ideology

And so what we're seeing is that, and we know this, that the other side does this rather than try and engage in the argument and win with that, they just ignore it. Now they've done it in federal court. Okay? So you go to the federal court of Appeal, you go to the high court, and you fight as hard as possible and you don't give up. At the end of the day, the moment we give up, that's the end. You're never going to get it back. Every single right that women have or had has been fought for, and every single one of them was hard to get. We've been given nothing. We even had to fight for the right to have our own bank accounts. And I have no doubt that along the way, many of the women in those fights felt like giving up or thought this is too hard or impossible.

Persisting Through Struggles

But if they had, we would not have some of any of the things that we have now. So while sometimes you might feel like, is there any point in doing this, my position always is. Of course there is, because we'll win in the end, because we have truth and reality on our side. It's just how long is it going to take? But we'll get there. I have no doubt. Yeah, we say the same thing all the time with Title IX, because it's. This is an ideology that cannot hold, because it is built on the fundamental lie that humans can change sex. It is built on the fundamental lie that a male can become a female in any significant way possible. And you have to legally enforce gender identity with, like, a totalitarian fist, because that's the only way you can make people go along with it, because it's nonsense.

Impact on Children and Society

And the only way you can, you know, enact whatever agenda we have, all of our ideas, but the agenda is they seek. You know, you have to force people into submission. You can't just ask for polite. It's under the guise of politeness and inclusion and. Oh, you're just validating one another. No, you're not. You're not validating people. You're giving up your rights in favor of a population of people for whom they believe that biological sex is completely irrelevant to their existence as human beings. And no such pop. Such population of people exists, especially a population of children who have apparently existed for centuries, yet all of a sudden are now in dire need of getting these surgeries. All this is just built on a lie.

Defining Sex and Title IX

And now we're at a point in history where we can't even define what sex is in Title IX. The original argument was that, well, we can change sex to gender identity because sex was never originally defined in the first place when Title IX was originally implemented in 1973. And. Well, yeah, because in 1973, when they wrote the word sex, they knew that meant male and female, because it wasn't until, like, five minutes ago we started pretending that we didn't know how babies were made anymore and that they gave this bogus excuse, like, oh, well, we never defined it sex in the first place, so we can't define it now. The facts are the facts. You can't protect what you cannot define.

Consequences of Legislative Changes

And so if, like, females, as a sex class, don't have that built into law on what makes one male or female, then they don't have anything. And once those lines become blurred between male and female, you blur the lines between age and what is appropriate and inappropriate. It is this TQ has latched on to legislation and policy that was put in place to protect women and children. And right now, we're seeing the results of what happens when these protections and these boundaries are under attack. It has real life consequences. Sal, what has the backlash been like? We have a lot of support on our side, and we see a lot of people speaking out in support of, you know, your cause and what you stand for, but just give us the tea.

Censorship and Free Speech

About the TRAs. How insane has it been? Honestly, I don't know. I've blocked most of them. I don't. I don't pay them any attention. I couldn't care less what they have to say. Could not, literally, could not care less. I know what they would be saying. Who cares? You know, I remember there was this very funny moment, actually, in the case in the hearing when I was being cross-examined. And for some reason they thought it was a good idea to read some of my tweets back to me. And then they would ask if that was about the applicant. And I don't feel like they would say there was one that they read that they'd said, the most you could do is make a court believe that a man is a woman. But you'll never make me believe it.

Reflections on the Case

And they were like, is that about this particular case? And I was like, well, no, I'm just making a general statement. It's like, but you think that this is about, what I said is about this case, which means that, you know, that this case is trying. About trying to convince the court that a man is a woman. Like, you're giving it away. It was crazy. Some of the things that they would do. But you're right in what you're saying about. But females needing these protections in law, and we do because male-only spaces don't require the same kind of protections. Because of the differences of males and females will exclude, self-exclude. Like you can have a male-only gym quite easily.

Gender Identity and Legal Definition

You just make it like you really loud and quite industrial and cold and put giant men there punching each other and lifting, you know, ton of weights. 99.9% of women won't go anywhere near it. The moment you do something that's women-only, there's a certain demographic of man who will go straight for it. So that's why it's important to protect, have protections for female women and girls. And also, like you're saying with title IX, them not putting like the definition of sex, it was the same with CEDAW. So CEDAW was written in 1979 and they didn't feel the need to put the definition. Not only they didn't actually define woman in it, but when you read CEDAW, the entire thing is literally just about biology.

Lessons Learned

So you can't mistake what they were meaning. It's just that they didn't feel the need to put a definition in. I mean, I suppose as human beings, if we're going to learn any lessons from this, it's like, don't make that mistake again. We are that stupid as a species that we need to write down even the most obvious basic things. And it's one of the things in Australia, like why, like with them saying that these males are actually female, it's why the whole thing needs to be repealed. It's why the whole thing needs to be undone. Because, and this is sort of the warning to any other country that is even flirting with the idea of putting gender identity in there. It will take over.

Advice to Others

You give these people an inch that they will take a mile. Because, like, at this very moment in time, say, if I was even any, say, if a female-only space, a new one was being created, and then they wanted to go and say, get an exemption. Like that would be like the process that they would take. You're actually in the position of having to argue why you want to exclude a certain type of female from a female-only space. That's what they've done. So you have to unravel all of that because obviously we want to exclude this female on the basis that he's male, but because that's why. And so that's why you need biological sex to have the weight in law.

Strategies for Future Action

And as I said before, like, we can definitely get there, but yeah, it's going to be another. At least another year. The thing is, we are very hard line on this gender identity thing when it comes to putting it into law, in that we don't want it, and that wherever it has been implemented, it needs to be rolled back, because this is what's causing the perversion in the schools. Gender identity policies are causing girls to get attacked. It is causing parents to be silenced, all on the basis of gender identity and gender expression. Wherever it is in place, it needs to be completely rolled back. We agree completely on that one palace.

Personal Insights

You had your hand up. I just. Can I just quickly just say on that? I used to, like, even probably 18 months ago, I was a little bit like, oh, you know, if you wanted to have gender identity in law, just put it in sort of a general anti-discrimination legislation. Like, just make sure it's not in conflict with anything else. I no longer think that. I don't think the gender identity should be in law in any capacity for two main reasons. One is it's nonsense. You don't legislate nonsense. But two, even if you were to go and take any part of it seriously, the state should not be involved in legislating people's subjective identities.

Importance of Biological Sex

It should always stay out of it. And I think that say, people who are what would call themselves trans, as I said before, they are covered by sex. So say if you are a female, but you present as a male, and then somebody was going to try and discriminate against you on that basis. They are still actually discriminating against you on the basis of sex because you are not appearing to be, like, sort of the stereotype of your sex. So everyone, this is why sex-based law is so important, is because it is the only one that covers everyone, because we all have a sex, even the people who are trying to reject theirs.

Inclusivity Through Sex-Based Law

So if we're going to talk about inclusion on the basis of sex, is literally the most inclusive way to categorize people and to formulate laws. It's the most efficient way because everybody has a sex and everybody is male or female, and. Oh, palace, you had your hand up. Yeah, I had a question about desal. You know, looking back, would you have changed anything about how you approached the legal defense of Giggle's policies? Could you hear me? Sal? Could you hear, palace? I couldn't. I don't know what's going on. Oh, no, I'll say it again. Okay, Celine? Yeah, well, maybe Celine could do it. Oh, Lordy. Okay, I think it's happening again.

Technical Challenges

So do you want to go and do what you did last time and go and come back? Okay, thanks, Sal. Sorry about that. Oh, x faces can be, like, really good or just really off. Unfortunately. Yeah. Such a fascinating discussion because she is, like, in the middle of it, and it's just. It's just like, there's so many. There's so many angles to tackle and Sal's back. Okay, Sal, I'm going to ask you my question once again. Okay. So looking back, would you have changed anything about how you approached the legal defense of Giggle's policies when she comes back in?

Reflections on Legal Strategy

Oh, pardon. I thought that she was back. Not fair. Crazy. Celine, what did your free speech. What video did you get censored for? You were saying something about LGBT clubs in schools. Yeah. So I made a video that I guess you can call it exposed or just brought attention to a queer club that was being run in a Melbourne primary school. So for students eight to twelve years old, I pretty much pulled a limbs of TikTok and put publicly available information into a video and was censored within a week of posting it. Can you hear? Yeah, I can hear you.

Engagement with the Audience

Okay, if you have any questions or comments that you might want to ask Sal or any of our. Anyone on our panel, then you can hit request, and we can let you up. But we're waiting for Sal to come through to get back, and I saw some people who also want to speak. Alice, so your question for Sal, what? She had gone about it differently. For what exactly? For Giggle, because, you know how, like, the legal defense was around Giggle's policies because it's a pro-woman app for biological women, and I was wanting to ask her, like, in retrospect, is there anything that she would have done differently to?

Concerns Over Judicial Practices

Because it sounds to me, based on what she's saying, it sounds like she would have pushed harder because they're clown. You know, like, the high. The courts there in Australia, they sound like they're clowns. So it's, like, for me, at least as a woman, like, that defends, like, women. Like, I. If I knew in retrospect, I would have pushed harder for Giggle's policies and would have been defiant. So I wanted to ask for that because it's like, it's such a clown show. Just, like, listening to her talk about it's just like, oh, my gosh. Like, Australia is scary when it comes to women's spaces, and it's just like, I'm so glad that she was sharing her story because it's so complex.

Empowerment Through Advocacy

There's a lot of nuance, but she remains defiant, and that's such a great badass warrior trait to have. And so, yeah, hopefully she's back now, so. Okay, I just let her back up. I'm back. Hey, girl. Hey. I heard the question. I heard the question, so I can answer it. The answer is, our arguments are correct. You never want to sort of do. I always feel like it's, like, a lazy thing to go, like, you sort of blame the judge or something, but that's literally the situation that we're in. You know, it's nothing. My legal team spent two and a half years working out what needed to be done and what the arguments were like.

Dedication to the Cause

It's not like there's lots of different ways to sort of do this. You've got to work out exactly what it is they would that they're doing and then fight. It was when, like, at the very beginning on getting their submissions, it was, you know, they were saying that this person is a trans woman, but then they were also calling him female. And so you had to work out it is that they were actually saying, because, as we all know, gender ideology's weapon of war is language. And so you had to work out what they were actually saying. And they were saying, this person is actually female.

Resolving the Legal Conflict

So you have to then fight it on those grounds of what they're saying, because that's your job as the respondent, is to fight against the argument of the other side. And so that's why essentially, this case is actually like, it should have been a sex discrimination case. Because one of the things that I always maintained is it's like, yes, you admit to sex discrimination in the sense that, like I did, I, this person was not allowed to use the platform on the basis of him being male, but the sex discrimination act allowed for that. But then once you, then obviously the issue is you had gender identity, and that's what was modeled.

Judicial Misinterpretations

So that's what was always being. That was what was always being argued. And that's what I say. It's just a bad judgment. You could interpret the law as it is now, even with all of its muddledness, that biological sex still has weight in the law. It just takes someone to accept that argument because it is the right argument. But in the event that you're not going to have anybody accept that argument, you have to repeal the things that's stopping that from happening. Because the intention of the Sex Discrimination act, obviously, was biological sex because in 1984, which, what a convenient year for them to bring it in, but that's when they did.

Historical Context of Legislation

In 1984, they, it's not like they said to a bunch of women, the women who they were creating the Sex Discrimination Act to protect, they didn't just go, I'll just go and identify as men. They knew that they had to do this on the basis of sex. And it was biological sex. And in terms of the Giggle terms and conditions or whatever, I mean, you know, it's that thing of, there's a lot of people that say, like, you know, why didn't you have it in there that it was on the basis of, like, XX chromosomes or something, because the word for that is female. And so when you just use normal language, our language, and not give, you know, you don't give that.

Clarifications in Legal Definitions

You don't give in to them. Like, it was very clear in there that it was for females. But also, then beyond that, when you get specific and you say women, and it's because it was from an age like, I can't remember, I thought that it was 18 and up. But then I think I was told that actually our terms and conditions said 16 and up, but whichever one it was, I actually would prefer it to be 18 and up. I don't think people under 18, you know, I just. Just. Children and adults should be separate. But, yeah, like, you just.

Conclusion and Future Outlook

You go, okay, so then it's for adult human females. They are women. That's. That's what the word means. They've changed it. Okay, well, we have to get them to change it back. So. No, there's. In terms of doing anything differently. Oh, God, I wish almost that we had just done an Irish jig. And Sharon, just what a fast they all are, because they are. Damn. So as far as where you're going with this, do you think that this is kinda like the moment of opening Pandora's box, so to speak? Because it really shows that they're doing everything that were told wasn't actually happening.

Legislation and Chaos

Yeah, same. There's. It just. It's a nonsense concept that. And when you legislate nonsense, you just get chaos.

Jessica's Insights

So I want to go to Jessica for a second, because Jessica's a reporter for us. She's been keeping track of these cases in schools and public spaces where girls are getting attacked because of their single sex bases, are being undermined because of gender identity laws. And she kind of has just been keeping track of new stories around the country and documenting when this is happening. Can you tell us a little bit about what's going on in a few states? Jessica, thanks so much for coming on the panel, by the way.

Background on Trans Issues

Yeah, thank you so much for having me on. And thank you so much for coming on as well. It's really fascinating to listen to you speak. And if you think back to around 2011 or the early two thousands, nobody identified as transgender. So when all these laws were starting to come up, people didn't really think much of them, and they just figured they were doing the right thing by, you know, allowing these trans identifying people into women and girls spaces because it didn't really affect anybody, not to the extent that it is now, because it's really become a social contagion and has become really mainstream.

Concerns About Self-Identification

And now there's millions of children and young people who are identifying as transdez. And one of the most concerning parts about that is most of it is self identifying. So children are self identifying as transgender, and then that's caused even more confusion and more chaos within, you know, the bathroom debate or the locker debate.

School Policies Reacting to Lawsuits

In an attempt to avoid lawsuits, schools didn't want to lose funding, so they've had to adopt transgender bathroom policies, which allows students to use, you know, the restrooms and the locker rooms with the sex that they identify with. California actually recently passed a bill requiring schools, excuse me, to have at least one gender neutral bathroom for non binary students. And students that feel like they can't identify as a boy or a girl in districts in Virginia have also gone as far as adding policies to their handbooks explaining how deadnaming someone so basically using someone's name that they no longer go by, which is what the trans cult likes to call dead naming or misgendering someone, that will now lead to discipline.

Victims of Assault and Fear

And in New Mexico, a twelve year old was raped in the bathroom at school by a trans identified classmate. Unfortunately, that girl was too afraid to tell the school because she was afraid of being labeled a bigot. This perpetrator, the trans identified student, he then assaulted two more girls at the school, and they also didn't want to speak up. And so these policies are really creating a culture where fear is silencing victims and our girls. And in Oklahoma and California, male trans identifying students have physically assaulted girls in their school bathrooms.

Documented Assault Cases

The male in the California incident had been reported to have had, quote, a habit of flashing girls in the restrooms and locker rooms. So the student was exposing himself to girls for fun in the locker room, and obviously no action was taken for that. In Wisconsin, a trans identified student was also showing his genitals to freshman girls. These girls were 14 years old. And most girls at 14 years old, aside from victims of trauma, most of them have not seen, you know, a naked male before.

Impact on Victims

So imagine that being the first time that you're being exposed to that, or imagine that you are a victim of trauma and you're having to be re traumatized, you know, at school. Nonetheless, in Virginia, a student who identified as gender fluid, he sexually assaulted a 15 year old girl in a high school bathroom. The perpetrator, the student, was simply moved to another school in the district, where he then assaulted another girl.

Legal Consequences

So they didn't take care of the problem. They moved him and allowed another girl to be victimized. He was finally convicted of both attacks. He's now in a mental health facility. Rightly so, and the family is suing for $30 million. To mitigate the situation, the schools have started opting for creating entirely new bathrooms to try to not back, but as a way to kind of keep everyone happy.

Excessive Spending on Facilities

So in Illinois, they're actually spending $6.8 million in tax money to expand the schools by 8000, all new restrooms. So each stall will be fully enclosed and they'll be equipped with a locking mechanism. So they're putting a lot of money and effort into putting all these extra things into the school just to spare people's feelings. Essentially, at the end of the day, we have our daughters being raped and sexually harassed by the same people in the district that they're claiming to protect. So it really is just atrocious.

Personal Fear and Rising Concerns

It's really scary. I have a daughter myself, and we're not going to be sending her to school when she's of age to go to school, but it is. It's very scary. Thank you so much, Jessica. So for next time you hear this isn't happening. It's happening a lot. It's happening everywhere. And girls are literally being bullied into silence after getting sexually harassed because they don't want to be called transphobic bigots.

Woke Sexism and Patriarchy

That's just woke sexism. That's, that's like patriarchy or something. Hey, Joey, you have your hand up? Hey, Michael. So, yeah, I have a question for Sal, provided, of course, she can hear me. Yes. Joey is a member of our California chapter. So I brought them up to the panel if they have any questions or comments for Sal. What's your question, Joey?

Concerns about Allyship and Backlash

Yeah, Sal. So with everything that's been going on, I mean, with your lawsuit, one of the things that we've run into here in California and, you know, kind of in the United States at large is that we do have some allies out there. We work. We do a lot of great work with a lot of other groups, parents groups. But there's a major worry that there's going to be a lot of social backlash as a result of things like having to redefine. For example, in the ruling, it sounds like the court has decided that, oh, yeah, a trans woman is biologically female, and that could open up a lot of other issues.

Legal Arguments and Challenges

A lot of other doors feel. Is there any? I guess it's a two part question. Number one is, do you have a lot, do you have other allies, and do you fear that there's going to be social backlash against biological women who want to have their own spaces? I didn't hear the question. I don't know what's going on, but if someone just wants to tell me what it is, Michael, if I. Do you want me to restate the questions you can ask her.

Panel Dynamics and Communication

I don't think she was able to hear me. Oh, could she not hear again? No, she couldn't hear. Oh, man. Michael, do you want to make her a co host? Will that help? Would that work? Maybe. Invite. Invite to co host. I sent an invite, but, Joey, what was your question? It's a two part question. Does she have allies and other groups that are helping to support her right to a single sex base?

Social Backlash Concerns

And is there a concern for social that effectively the pendulum is going to swing the other way against gay rights, the way we have that fear here in the United States. Okay. So, Joey was wondering, Sal, if you have allies, like, from other groups who are supporting your cause and what you're fighting for. Oh, good question. Yeah, I just.

Support and Allies in Advocacy

I don't know any specific, like, groups, per se, but, you know, there's lots of different places, like, whether it's, like, you know, like, different lgbt groups, other, like, just groups that, you know, that have popped up that are specifically for women. But, you know, I just think that if you just, like, go to the general public, once they actually know what's going on, they. They get on side.

Unexpected Support and Funding

Like, they support us. I mean, the. The federal court case cost $500,000, and we did that. We had to crowdfund it, because I don't know about you, but I don't have a spare half a million dollars laying around. And it was literally just off the back of the kindness and support of strangers from all over the world who donated.

Accusations and Funding Misconceptions

And there wasn't any specific groups. Like, I have seen. There's been some accusations that I'm funded by, like, the Catholic right or something. I'm like, I'm not, but I'll accept a check. Like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to say no to anyone's money if I can use it to go and get women's rights back and free speech and whatnot, but, yeah, no, there's not, like, any specific groups.

Continuing Advocacy and Support

I don't think, like, beyond, you know, everyone who's just involved in this issue. Thank you, Sal.

Audience Engagement

country spaces. There was a hand up. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, Sal. Hi, Mike. Celine. Good to see you guys. I just wanted to bring something up. I shared this with Michael already. I was transferred many years. I recently just started detransitioning, and over the years, I've really learned a lot of information.

Statistics on Trans Issues

But I'd like to put this out there for people just to kind of give them an idea of some numbers and stuff. So 57.1% from a study that I read present narcissistic personality disorder by those who identify as trans. 33% of trans incarcerated in California in women's prisons have a sexual offense, with 25% who are incarcerated for sexual assault. That also includes female inmates getting pregnant as well.

Problems with Trans Justice

17% of those who identify as trans are also autistic. 0.005% to 0.013% of the population actually have gender dysphoria, where it is a spectrum from mild to a danger to themselves. Puberty blockers are horrible, of course, as we've seen. But I just wanted to kind of give you some more information also. One in three women basically suffer sexual assault, rape, molestation, being fondled, grope, sexually harassed in some form or fashion up until the point of being murdered.

Military Sexual Assault Statistics

I've done, and I wrote a paper on military sexual assault legislation and prosecution, and these are some of the numbers that I found during my research. So people are saying, well, there are trans rights and this, that and the other and everything. So, Sal, my question for you is, you knowing this information, knowing how vulnerable women are, especially in a private place, such as a bathroom, restroom, locker room, or something like that, and how these trans identifying males keep trying to invade into more and more female spaces, I imagine that has to be quite the undertaking for you and your team to be able to manage this.

Understanding Women’s Safety

Am I right? Yeah. Good. Good question. Yeah. I mean, you know, we all. We all know instinctively, I mean, it's the reason why female in these spaces exist. It's, you know, there's obviously privacy and dignity, but safety is the next part of that, you know, and my argument is that the moment you have a man wanting to go into a female only space, you're dealing with someone who does not respect women's boundaries.

Legal Arguments in Focus

So he can sit there and claim that he's the nicest man in the world, but just the act of wanting to go in and not listening to the woman saying no, in my opinion, makes him someone who is concerning and actually someone who confirms the need for female in spaces. When you're dealing in for court cases, like when you're dealing with the law, you're dealing with legal arguments.

The Nature of Legal Arguments

So obviously, we have all of our arguments and talking points that you use in media, or when we're explaining to people what's going on or just the issue, and, like, sort of the philosophical side of all of this and all of the data and all of that's not how legal arguments work. Legal arguments, you're looking at different parts of legislation, and you're arguing either for or against it, basically.

Judge's Understanding of Women's Safety

And so, you know, I remember in the case management hearing, which was, this was the case, the hearing that happened last year, to even decide if the case would go ahead, my barrister did just, you know, as part of explaining to the. Trying to explain to the judge to make him understand the need for female only spaces was that, you know, when a woman is walking down the street at night and she sees a figure walking towards her, one, we can always tell if it's male or female that's a basic, you know, evolutionary skill.

The Struggles of Female Experience

And when we grab our keys or whatever it is, we have to protect ourselves. We don't stop and ask that person's gender identity and their pronouns. We make decisions on the basis of sex. But that's, though the judge, he. I remember him saying, he's like, I don't understand what you're saying. And it's like, yeah, but exactly, you don't understand because you're male.

Men's Understanding of Women's Experience

You don't understand what it's like to walk through the world as a female. And that's exactly the same even for a man who's claiming to be a woman. He does not understand. He can't possibly. I can't possibly understand what it's like to be male like. These are just some of the most concrete facts that we have about human beings that we literally cannot understand how it is to be the other one.

The Limits of Legal Arguments

But they are not legal arguments. They're arguments that you do to try and educate a judge or the other side, but they're not going to, at the end of the day, override what a law says. Unfortunately, they are arguments that you could use to energize politicians to do their job.

Frustration with Politicians

Because I think it's important to note that, like any other country in Australia right now, politicians could just do their job and. And get women's rights back in law. It'd take them about a week, and it would be for free. Just what their wages they get. Anyway, the fact that they're making private citizens go and do this, I think, is unforgivable.

Strengthening Legal Arguments

But, yeah, I mean, going forward, it's just. It's just making sure that the legal arguments are as strong as possible. And winning a legal fight on the grounds of legal arguments.

Conclusion and Appreciation

Thank you so much. That was so insightful. At the end of the day, it's, the law is legislating the chaos. So that's what needs to be changed. And the language and the law needs to be maintained because it's kind of amazing, once you flip around a few words, how much can just crumble.

Final Thoughts

Material reality itself becomes obsolete. Jess. She came up to the panel and raised her hand, and she has tickle versus giggle in her bio. What's going on? I can hear you. Amazing. Okay, so since the judgment, you've been bombarded with opinions and advice from every man and his dog all over the world.

Response to Public Opinions

What you should have done, what you and your team did wrong or right, what you should do next, what you shouldn't do next, what we should all be doing instead. And it's endless. I just want to know what you would say to that.

Efforts and Strategies

That's a good question. Okay, so as I said a little bit earlier, like, it's not like my. We didn't wing it. We didn't just walk in and go, okay, we'll just sort of throw shit at a wall and see what sticks. This was two and a half years of working out what the arguments actually were against this, because you're just working with law and you have to work out how to work with, undo what they've actually done.

Commitment to the Cause

And so. And I stand by that. Their arguments are right, but I completely stand by that. So that is what it is. There's a lot of people, I've seen some people say that there's no possible way to win. Well, not with that attitude, there isn't. You know what I mean?

Determination and Resilience

Like, you have to. You have to be in it to win it. You have to fight it to win it. In the event, just say I was to go, oh, you know what? This is really hard. This has turned my entire life upside down. I'm a single mom to a two year old daughter. This is hard every day.

Facing Financial Struggles and Responsibilities

I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy if I was to just go, oh, okay, I'll just give in. Fine, I'll just, you know, I've been told I have to pay this guy $10,000 plus his legal, like, an x amount of his legal costs. Okay, I'll just do that and move on with my life.

The Need for Persistence

Two things. One, I've got nothing. Then, like, I. I don't even have female. I can't even go into female only spaces. Like, I. You know, I am a woman, too, who wants these rights. The other thing is that all that would be telling politicians is if you push them enough, they give up.

The Importance of Advocacy

And so they will never, ever change anything. They will never give us our rights back. I understand that for some people, they don't like that. It's this case. Everyone has this perfect image of what the fight could look like or how we're going to win this or what would be the best way to do it.

Facing Unexpected Challenges

You know what? I didn't ask for this either. Well, no one else asked for this case, nor did I. And so everyone is playing the cards that they've been dealt. And the reason that we're in this situation now in Australia, it's not because the law has been working since 2013.

Institutional Intimidation

It's because the Australian Human Rights Commission intimidated every other woman or some guys as well, who done stuff just on the basis of sex. They've intimidated them all into submission. I just, I mean, it kind of just messed with the wrong person in the sense that, like, when I know I'm wrong, right, I'm very stubborn, and I know I'm right on this, and so I'm not going to give up.

Defiance Against Intimidation

And I just, when I was faced with the choice in the HRC days of, I could have done it then, like, either give in now or this is what the fight's going to be like. It's going to go to the high court. And I chose the fight to go to the high court otherwise, because then I'm not helping either.

Making a Stand

Like, then I'm going to be just leaving it up to some other woman to come along and be like, okay, well, no one else has challenged this before me, and it's up to her. It's like, I am here to end this. I want women's rights back in law.

Rights and Reality

I don't want men to be women in law in any capacity, and I want us to be able to say, men are not women without fear of punishment. That's really all I'm here for. Once I've achieved that, I'll go on my merry way.

Desire for Normalcy

I'd prefer to be just running an app for women. I'll go on my merry way, and I will do that. So I have no doubt that everybody has different opinions. I will say a lot of people have had, well, I've blocked most of them out because I don't care.

Judgment versus Case Understanding

But a lot of people are making opinions based on the judgment, not based on the case. Court book is there on the federal court website. Anyone can go and read it. It's up to you.

Public Access to Information

In terms of, unfortunately, the judge did not allow the case to be live streamed, and that was a real shame. I mean, I have the transcripts, but I'm not allowed to just give them out willy nilly, apparently.

Misinterpretation of the Case

But, you know, if you read the judgment, it sounds like we didn't do anything. It sounds like we didn't fight, but that's on purpose. It's because it's a bad judgment.

Continued Advocacy

When you read the case and you read and you, and the transcripts, it's clear that it's all there. So you just, we just keep fighting. And anybody who thinks that I'm not doing it right needs to acknowledge that I'm not stopping them from doing it their way.

Collaboration in Advocacy

I think the more the merrier. I don't care. I don't have to the one that fixes this, I'm happy for anyone to do it. Like, whoever wins and gets women's rights back, I will be the first to stand there and congratulate them and thank them and then move on.

Circumstances and Advocacy Position

This is just the situation that I found myself in. Anyone else, while this is happening can still go and do the things that they think are the things that will work. Do them. I will never, ever stop anybody else from finding a way to fix this.

Invitation to Action

It's as simple. What's up? Yes, 100%. I'm sorry, Jeff. Let me also say, I don't want to interrupt you. Interrupt you? No, that was it.

Acknowledgment of Contributions

And that was great, Sal. Thank you very much. Like it. Like you were saying, you don't want to be, you found yourself in this. That's what we say.

Ideals and Reality

Like gays against groomers, our goal is to no longer exist. Like, we don't want to have to exist and be fighting this agenda. The ideal outcome for gays against groomers would be to not exist anymore.

Addressing Current Issues

We don't want to have this problem, all of these problems that we're seeing right now as a result of a lot of these gender identity policies that we're dealing with. And it's so interesting how hearing you say that, because as one of the founding members, as people who've been building this organization for two years now, we have members on the panel who've just been fighting this with everything they have.

The Evolution of Advocacy

And we didn't ask for it. We kind of just, I mean, I was part of a group of friends who we just kind of got together and said, let's speak out and now here we are. But we don't want to have to be the ones to stop.

A Call for Action

Like if the NGO's want to stop pushing this agenda, that'd be fantastic. That'd be the ideal outcome. Like, we don't want to be sitting here and driving ourselves crazy over these laws and policies and feeling like the future of safeguarding is like, you know, people talking to you like, you know, your, you know, your lawsuit's important, you're making a big deal out of it because you know that it's going to affect a lot of people.

The Reality of Advocacy

And Stylegrover didn't ask to be in that position, but that's just kind of what it, you know, wound up blossoming into. And it's scary as hell. So kudos to anybody who has the guts to speak out and just say what's actually going on and stand firm in their knowledge of biological sex and reality.

Acknowledging Reality

It really comes down to that. Joey asked before, something that Sal said in an interview was about how gay people had to beg to get married only to. That's a quote that she says all the time about gay people had to beg to get married only to erase the definition of sex or something like that.

Historical Context

Yeah. So in Australia, basically, yeah, all over the world, we saw that, you know, gay people had to beg to get married to get the laws changed. And finally, eventually, they were like, oh, okay, we'll let you do this.

The Nature of Marriage Equality

Which was ridiculous. They should. Of course gay people should be able to be married. In Australia, it went to. It was called a plebiscite.

Public Referendum

So it's sort of like a national survey. And they amended the Marriage ACt on the basis of the result because it was. Everyone said yes. And it was. The question was, actually, it should be same sex marriage.

Laws and Ideologies

Should same sex marriage be allowed or something? But they'd done the amendments in the Sex Discrimination act in 2013, so, like, three and a half years before they allowed gay marriage, they had already effectively destroyed the concept of sex.

Trans Rights vs. Women's Rights

So that's like the level of gaslighting this group of people at the. We know the loudest of the men claiming to be women. So let's focus on them, who are always banging on about how they're marginalized and oppressed.

Perception vs. Reality

Well, they got laws changed in stealth. So how marginalized and oppressed are you? There's not a single marginalized or oppressed group who can get a law changed publicly, let alone in stealth. Not that quickly.

Misunderstanding of Current Issues

And now that even that they're saying it's like. But you just also run in court, like, they're still. I've seen some of them still going on about, like, wanting to be in the part of the australian census of wanting the trans and gender question there and saying, you know, this is just showing.

The Need for Awareness

Because it wasn't there immediately. It was just showing how much work there is to do to stop discrimination against trans people. What on earth are you talking about? This is gaslighting on the grandest of scales.

Recognition of True Oppression

The group that is actually being oppressed right now are women. And literally anyone who is speaking out against this, I do say that I think that it sells this issue short to say that it's just a woman's rights issue.

The Wider Context of Rights

Like, that's obviously where I'm coming at it from. And women's rights are the canary in the coal mine. And I want to ensure women get our rights back.

Impact on Society

But gender ideology affects everyone because it's everyone's freedom of belief, freedom of speech and freedom of association. And once you don't have that, you literally have nothing.

The Foundation of Democracy

They are the pillars of a democratic, liberal, secular society. That's what wars have been fought for them so that we could have those.

Resistance and Action

So I just. These people are unraveling everything in society, and while they're doing it, they're saying that they're being oppressed. I think it's just you've got to.

A Call to Stand Firm

You've got to say no to everything that they are trying to do because you give. You give any inch, they take a mile, and none of it works. And we all have to pay the price on it.

The Flaws of Current Ideologies

If they could find a way to have so called trans rights in law that literally did not impinge on anyone else's rights, that would be an interesting conversation, but it's not possible. And that's the fault of their own stupid ideology.

Concluding Thoughts

Yeah, I forgot what I was going to say. Oh, my gosh. Whose question was that? I had to keep track of something else. That was mine, Michael, but I don't think she can hear me still.

Technical Difficulties

So I think you asked her for me. Okay, can Sal hear Celine? Testing, one, two, coming south. Sal, can you hear Celine?

Continued Discussions

Oh, I don't think so. No. Should I. Okay, should I go back out? Do you want. Do you want me to drop in and out?

Resolving Communication Issues

Do you want me to drop out and come back in and give that a go? Yeah. Both of y'all do that and talk about her free speech case.

Audience Appreciation

Thank you, guys. I appreciate it. All right, thanks for bearing with us, audience. By the way, I said, like, tonight, we're totally willing to go over time and chat with Australia because of all the things that are going on.

Acknowledging Contributions

This is a fascinating conversation. Jessica, thanks so much for that information you gave us, by the way. You've been keeping track.

Gratitude and Closure

Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me on. I'm actually going to have to get off now, but I do want to say thank you to everybody who came and who listened and thank you for letting me share, you know, all of these stories of everything that's been going on across the nation.

Commitment to Change

It's. I'm really glad that a lot of people are starting to stand up for it now and hopefully get some more visibility. Thanks, Jessica. I appreciate you coming on and talk to you soon. Have a good night.

Technical Adjustments

Okay, Celine. And so. Testing, one, two. Yeah, I can hear Celine. Amazing.

Adjustments for the Audience

Cool. And I just let Sal up as well. So let's talk about what got you censored.

Censorship and Fight for Free Speech

What the government is doing to you, how you're fighting back and what people need to know. There's a lot of people who everything that you say is going to be news to them, they don't know about, like your case and you know what's going on.

Details of Censorship

So you made a video, Celine, and you posted it online. And what was the video about and what happened?

Video Overview

Alrighty. So it was towards the end of May this year. So I uploaded a video to Instagram and to X, and it was in collaboration with gays against groomers.

Focus of the Video

And it was a video that was centering a queer club that was being run in a Melbourne primary school. And these. These queer clubs, these gay straight alliance clubs are pretty much everywhere in australian schools these days and in primary schools as well.

Young Age of Participants

So we're talking kids, we're talking eight year olds, eight to twelve years old. I was tipped off by a follower of mine on Instagram about this particular club.

Community Awareness

She wasn't a parent at the school, but she knew parents that were at the school and she also knew parents that had left the school. Because this school is just inundated with gender ideology.

Inundation of Ideology

They don't call the students boys and girls. It's all gender neutral terms. So when I was tipped off, I went onto the school website and right there on their public newsletter was, yep, here's our queer club.

Documenting Information

So I took a couple of screenshots and I also took a screenshot of the teacher's profile that was facilitating it because it was all public, as I said before.

Public Information

Yeah, I pulled the libs of TikTok and just posted what was already public information. And less than a week later, it was geoblocked on X and removed completely off Instagram.

Consequences of Sharing

I didn't get any notification on Instagram whatsoever. I received an email from X's legal team saying that they received a notice from the esafety commissioner saying that I violated Australian laws but didn't specify what law that was.

Explanation of E-Safety Regulations

So for anyone who doesn't really know the esafety stuff. So we have a world first in Australia. It's the world's first government regulatory online agency.

Initial Purpose of E-Safety

It was originally started to keep children safe online, which, I mean, no one disagrees with. We all want children to be safe online.

Safety Concerns

We all want children to be protected and shielded from certain content. But the problem is with esafety and in particular our esafety commissioner.

Administration of E-Safety

Her name is Julie Inman Grant. She used to work at Microsoft. She used to work at Twitter 1.0 when it was super woke and you'd get your entire account deleted for misgendering.

Political Bias

She's. Let's just say she's got some pretty extreme political allegiances that make her views on certain topics extremely obvious. And one of those topics is gender ideology.

Disinformation and Misinformation

She's also been caught lying out, lying a few times about how unsafe our online environment really is. We had a referendum last year that was.

Referendum Description

It was called the voice. And what that was, how do I sum this up? Pretty much giving our indigenous population, aboriginal people, a voice to parliament.

Outcome of the Referendum

And I won't go into the details of that, but it was overwhelmingly voted down by the australian public.

Censorship and Misinformation

She was saying, leading up to that referendum that aboriginal people were copying all this online abuse and it eventually came out that she was lying about the whole thing. I can. I'll drop a news article in the comments about that. But she's. Yeah, so she's someone who benefits off the Internet being, you know, all this dangerous place and unsafe. And she's also the one who's going after billboard, Chris, for misgendering a trans activist who wants taxpayer, you know, sex changes for kids. And her name's Teddy Cook. I don't know if anyone's heard that story. I'll drop a link as well for that. So she's not exactly neutral on certain topics. So it was her that censored my video. So after that, after I got the email from x, I reached out to the free speech Union of Australia, in particular, doctor Reuben Kirkham. He's been an absolute godsend. Like, bless that man. He's been my representative.

Legal Proceedings and Appeals

So we filed an appeal to the administrative Appeals Tribunal. And that was way back in June, about the beginning of June. And we've only just gotten our trial date, which will be in November. So I'll post closer to that. So, because I think the public will be able to be involved where. So we're basically challenging the notice that they gave to X, to Gia, block my video. Now, another thing with esafety, the sneaky thing, is that they claim to issue informal notices being in quotation marks to these social media platforms. The reason why they call them informal notices is because they don't really exist. And if that sounds confusing, it's very confusing, but it's by design. It's how this office works. If it wasn't for Ruben explaining this to me like I'm five every week, then I'd have no idea how to fight this, because it's all very confusing.

Challenges with Documentation

So when esafety gave us the tender bundle of all the documents involved in the case in order for us to, you know, fight it fairly. Not only did they neglect to provide this apparent, this informal notice, they sent us a draft of it. And just the overall communication with this office has been absolutely painful, to say the least. So it makes me wonder just how many other people are having their posts removed at the behest of this office without any knowledge of it. And had I not received that email from X's legal team, I'd have absolutely no idea that the video had even been deleted. Censorship's a massive problem in this country. It really is. And I'm sure south can attest to that, especially in. In recent days, we've had some terrifying legislation be introduced.

Current Events and Cultural Commentary

So, yeah, there's a few particular topics where if you speak out on it, you're putting a big target on your back. And gender ideology is definitely one of them. And considering a lot of the content that I post, obviously, being with you guys, being with gays against groomers centers around australian children and australian schools, things that I firmly believe parents need to know what's going on in schools. So it's very concerning that we have this ministry of truth, this government agency that claims to speak for all Australians, yet they're actively censoring content that goes against, you know, the certain agendas at play. So we're really up against it down here. It's very scary times. And what kind of coverage has this story gotten so far?

Media Coverage of the Issue

As Sal said before, our media is super captured. I was surprised, Sal. Surprised they had you on a current affair. Darlingenhe. Whoa. But so Sky News, as Sal said before, they're the only big kind of news outlet that will really touch on it. But even then, it's not to the extent that we would obviously, like. I've had a few, like, independent media interviews. Like, I went on Sky News, I was on outsiders, and I've also been on TNT, radio and ADHD as well, just to talk about it, because they're more like free speech networks. Few articles as well. The Herald sun down in Melbourne wrote about it, but it was behind a paywall. So it's like, you know, people can't really read it. So, yeah, not a huge amount of mainstream media, but I guess that's the whole point, right?

Political Perspective on Media Challenges

They don't really want people to know what's going on. Yeah. Hey, Sal, were you able to hear Celine? Yes, I was able to hear her. And I just want to sort of add that she's right. Like, our media landscape here, it's not only it's captured, but it's just so small. And so my advice to anyone in Australia who is needing to have attention on any issue, go international. Humiliate them from the outside in. I mean, Celine came to the right place because I'm Celine's new sky, and we're saying that whenever this gets pressed anywhere, we just want to put it on blast because, I mean, apparently Celine can't even call out what's going on in these RoGd hotbeds of, like, these lgbt club schools.

Issues of Government and Media Censorship

It's where they're teaching this inappropriate stuff. That's what she was calling out. She can't even say that. So, okay, whenever there is an excuse or a story or an update, we're just going to be putting it on blast from this account to do exactly what Sal just said. But that's kind of the agenda right now, because when you can't even, you know, she's being censored. So we have to point fingers from. From outside and show them. Show everybody what's going on in Australia, because Australians can't even speak for themselves. Jess, hi. Just adding to the commentary on the censorship here, specifically in Queensland, where Sal's based. I'm based. And tickle v giggle was born.

Political Blockages and Censorship Issues

For those who don't know, Sal's actually blocked on social media by Queensland's minister for women, Shannon Fentiman, just for raising concerns reasonably and civilly about women's rights. And as of just yesterday, within minutes of asking our state premier, Steven Miles, if he would like to speak with her about women's rights, he blocked her, too. So, yes, we do have a censorship problem here. And I'm pretty sure Sal could paper her apartment with the emails and conversation and interview requests that have been ignored over the years.

Political Relationships and Frustrations

Oh, completely. Like, there are some people who say, you know, why don't you go and speak to, you know, this sort of, like, lefty approved publication? And I'm like, I've tried. They don't respond to my emails. I would have to, like, you know, it's so devastating when you find out that certain publications that you've spent your entire adult life reading won't speak to you or will write articles just calling you a bigot. Yeah, it's really sad. But, yeah, I mean, I'm blocked by Queensland politicians. I mean, like, these people are nobodies. It's fine. But what it does showcase is, like, the political side of this.

Government Response to Proposed Legislation

We've got the government that's in power at the moment is labor, that's federally, and most state governments are labor. So they are, you could sort of say they're the equivalent of like, our democratic party and then like, the liberal party is, let's just call them the Republicans just to have some sort of point of reference. So the amendments were brought in under labor. So the labor government's not going to appeal them because, I mean, we all know politicians don't admit when they got something wrong. If we had any hope of anyone repealing them, it would be the liberals.

Legislative Developments and Responses

But I mean, these guys are so useless. It seems to be that their entire policy at this point is just wait for labor to fuck up. And like, that's not really a strategy. We've got Pauline Hanson's one nation party, which is going further to the right, but she is brilliant on this issue, both for kids and for women. Yesterday she tried to introduce a bill to repeal the amendments to basically take gender identity out of anywhere. It's mentioned in the Sex Discrimination act and reinstate the definitions of man and woman and labor. And the Greens party blocked her.

Legislative Conflicts and Social Responses

They wouldn't even let her speak, which apparently is so unique for them to block that they wouldn't even get a first reading. That doesn't happen. You usually are able to at least do the first reading and then they'll block it after that. They wouldn't even let her speak. So they actually didn't even know what they were blocking because she hadn't said it. Not only that, they, like, literally yelled her down in the Senate. I'm sure you watched it, Sal, the Greens lady going off saying that she was hateful.

Language and Political Narratives

And we will fight this. See that, as you said before, the language is so important because they say anti trans, but it's not anti anything. It's pro reality, pro women, pro children. Exactly. And that's what's so interesting about it. They're actually proving our point. Like this is the thing, the operation, let them speak. It's the best possible thing because Pauline Hanson yesterday was trying to introduce legislation that would protect women's rights. They didn't let her speak and immediately just went on about how it's anti trans and we've got to protect trans people.

Protest and Reclaiming Narratives

Well, all they're admitting is what we already know is that there is a conflict between the rights. Thanks for proving our point, dickheads. So. Couldn't have said it better myself. More damage yesterday. Yeah, they did more damage yesterday than if they just let her speak. So. But I, while my goal, obviously, I want these amendments repealed, I don't think that they will. I don't think they will go. I don't think it's going to happen yet, but we'll get there. Yeah, no, I definitely.

Optimism in Political Movements

I agree. I was very happy to see, finally, though, a politician try and take a stand against it. And, yeah, the fact that didn't get past the first reading speaks absolute volumes. The fact that they would have just looked at the title of the bill, saw biological reality, and then admittedly, like, just jumped straight to anti trans and bigotry and hatefulness and all this. It's. It's so telling. It means they know it's against reality.

Reality and Legislative Challenges

I did a tweet just a few hours ago, and I said, like, literally all we're asking politicians to do is acknowledge reality. That's it. It's not. We're not asking for something really crazy here. Just acknowledge reality, and we can all move on. Yeah, I was screaming as you were saying this because it's what we deal with all the time. If we say, stop grooming kids, and you say, that's anti transdez, what. What are you telling me right now?

Disturbing Narratives and Legal Definitions

So what is pro trans to groom kids? Oh, I'm against. I'm against grooming. Oh, that's transphobic. How is that? How. How. You're the one saying it. You know what I mean? Like, what are you implying about the trans community? If being against sexualizing children at drag shows is somehow anti LGBTQ, this is how they play with words as well. Anti trans. Maybe, like, four years ago, anti trans was, like, synonymous with transphobic.

Shifting Definitions and Political Terms

In America, as of 2022, anti trans is a political term that means. That is a number of beliefs, and if you hold any of the beliefs, then you are anti trans. Anti trans beliefs include that humans cannot change sex, that children should note undergo sex change surgeries, that girls deserve their own sports, that children can consent to puberty blockers, or that anything that is critical of any letter of the Alphabet of LGBTQ, even by a person from within the LGBTQ Alphabet, is anti trans opinion. So if you think that nonbinary isn't real, then your opinion is labeled anti trans and also anti LGBTQ.

International Perspectives on Gender Issues

In Canada, they refer to this as anti gender. In England, they call it gender critical, but this is the way they play with words, is that when they say anti trans, they just mean what gender critical would mean over there or anti gender would mean in Canada. So if you're a lesbian, a gay, or a bisexual, and you think that mutilating kids is bad, then you are anti LGBTQ even if you are in the Alphabet. It makes no sense. So basically, if everything is anti trans, then nothing is anti trans.

The Oratory of Truth

But literally everything that does not completely and totally agree in kowtow to this ideology is anti trans and anti LGBTQ, even if you are a gay. And this is how they play with words and label you as a bigot just for thinking that humans can't change sex. Anti trans didn't mean that in 2020. And it wasn't until 2022, when in America anyway, that these phrases started popping up. And they didn't mean what they meant, like 5 seconds beforehand.

Personal Reflections on Gender Norms

Country spaces. What's up? Hey, Mike. Just something I just wanted to bring up that JK Rowling posted earlier today or last night. Trans boss of rape crisis center should be sacked over failing report commissioned by the rape Crisis center of Scotland found that under Mirror Wadwa's leadership, there had been no safe spaces at Edinburgh rape Crisis center for Women. Now, this is a. This person is a trans identifying male. And so this is just more adding more to the conversation here and how women deserve to have their single sex basis, how girls, young ladies, and women need to have single sex sports so they can compete on an equal level with themselves and not have males in there.

Establishing Single-Sex Spaces

But this is just continues to go on and on. And it seems like, you know, as soon as we fight one thing, we got ten more popping up that is getting in the way. I mean, we've got politicians who are pushing for a lot of this stuff, and it. We need to get it stopped somehow. And, you know, people keep labeling this, that and the other thing as being transphobic, or it's anti trans or trans rights. There is no such thing as trans rights.

Defining Rights and Privileges

You know, what trans rights are is a figment of someone's imagination that gives special privileges to a select group of people that are. Is not afforded to the rest. And we keep using, like you were saying, this terminology where we keep redefining words and using words differently and everything else. This is the kind of things that we're fighting and, you know, gaze against groomers. That's what they're against, is, you know, keeping children, being able to say children for as long as possible.

Generational Perspectives on Gender Issues

You know, I am of the older crowd. I'm in my mid fifties. And, you know, this stuff didn't exist when I was a kid. Yeah, we had some maybe effeminate looking guys or some tomboyish looking girls, but that's what they were. They were, you know, just effeminate guys and tomboy girls. That's just the way it was when I was growing up. It wasn't until 2016 when President Obama signed the bathroom order for bathrooms, did this really start to become an issue in allowing people to identify however they want without even a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

The Evolution of Gender Identity Discussions

So, you know, they keep redefining that even so, to be inclusive, to be non binary and everything else, and it's. It's totally diluted. The water muddied it, and, you know, that's kind of where we are right now. Yeah. Laws on the basis of gender identity are based on a belief that there exists a gendered soul or a gendered feeling which supersedes that of one's anatomical sex. And this feeling is not traceable or quantifiable or identifiable. And you just have to go by what someone says.

Legal Implications of Gender Identity

I know in my state, for instance, if you get arrested, if you're a man and they say, what's your gender? You could say, I'm a woman. I'm non binary. Gender flux, drag queen, drag king, Butch queen. These are all legal genders in New York, by the way. Butch queen, drag queen. And a man or a woman could identify. If a woman wants to legally identify as a drag queen instead of a female, she can. And if you go to jail and you list any of these 36 gender identities, that is not man. They say, which facility would you like to be housed in?

The Dystopian Reality of Identification

And then you get housed and you go, right, and wherever you want, same as California. So if a man gets arrested and says, oh, I'm genderflux, they say, would you like to go into the women's? And he says, yeah, that's all you need to do. Self id. It's dystopian. And in California, what happened is that there was a man who was arrested. This was at the time of arrest, did not identify, call themselves whatever, a woman. This is a full on man. I'll find a picture. who attacked two girls in a restroom in California and got arrested for assaulting little girls and then identified his way into the girls juvenile hall.

Concerns Over Gender Identity in Juvenile Systems

So a child molester wound up being able to identify his way into being housed with teenage girls in jail in California just by self id. So I say, therefore I am like, if you just say you're something. If you could say, if a man could say they're a woman or a girl could say that they're a boy and get. And we're expected to pretend as if there would be some. One could just say that, and then there would be no conflicts. I mean, look at what's happening.

The Continuous Cycle of Ideological Issues

It just keeps proving to be a disaster over and over again. Celine, so what was. What was going on with your free speech case update the other day where they were trying to. Something happened. What was the recent update that happened the other day? And I know there was something I wanted touch on. Yeah. So the most recent update was we filed a summons because they were refusing to hand over specific documents in relation to the case.

Attempting to Access Critical Documentation

And one of those documents was the informal notice. So we did have a quick little hearing at the ATTT administrative appeals tribunal, but I believe the summons has been rejected. It's a jurisdictional issue. I don't. I'll pop my big long thread from the free speech union of Australia in the comments so people can have a read. But it's. So we've. Yeah, we've got a trial. We've got a trial date for November.

Trial Setbacks and Communication Issues

And that's when we're actually challenging the notice. But we're. I mean, we're not as prepared as we should because they won't hand over the documents. So it's the hearing. The summons hearing was just a bunch of word salad, to be honest, from the esafety representative, just trying to, like, he was just pretty much just talking about the online safety act. And it wasn't really, as. I don't know, it's really hard to explain for, as I said, I have to get Ruben to explain it to me.

The Complexity of Legal Language

Like, I'm five. It's like, really hard to wrap your head around. But basically, yeah. They're still refusing to hand over the informal notice that they allegedly sent to X. So that's what that little hearing was about. But the big one, like, the one that's actually challenging their decision is not until November. All right. Awesome. Is anybody.

Engagement and Legal Discussions

Can I just say. The audience, can I just interrupt? Sorry, because I want to say, celine, like, I completely understand what, like, you're going through. I, with my legal team, it was the exact same thing. Instruction to them. I'd be like, explain this. Like I'm five and like a puppy. Like, I don't. Because sometimes my barrister will. Just, when she's talking through things, she will talk to me as if I've got, like, a PhD in law.

The Challenges of Legal Jargon

And I get off the phone going. I literally have no idea what she's just said. She may as well have been speaking in Chinese. And. Oh, I feel that. Yeah, because it's. It's. It like, it is so completely confusing and. But then, like, I've just from that. From getting it to be explained so simply. That's how now I can explain it.

Articulating Complex Legal Concepts

There's still some times where I'm just like, when she's now explaining stuff to me, I understand it, but then I even go to try and articulate it. It's just like, I don't even know how to explain it because it's. Yeah, it's hard. If you don't understand law, it's really hard to articulate all of this stuff, because law, it is. It's just boring legal arguments.

Differences in Communication Styles

It's different to the arguments we make socially. Yeah, I don't speak legalese. I'm learning. It's myself. I'm trying to learn as much as possible. But, yeah, you're right. And it's. Yeah, it's by design. All right, if there's anybody from the audience who wants to come and ask any of our panelists a question or a comment, you can hit request now and do that. celine, what was that other.

Further Clarifications from Celine

The other part of your story you wanted to address as well? I wanted to make sure we got everything. Is there another part I don't know. Wasn't there? No, I think we've addressed. It was just the. Oh, okay. So my apologies. The only other thing I kind of wanted to bring to everyone's attention is. I'm sure Sal knows about this, too.

New Legislative Introductions

So yesterday we had the most orwellian dystopian, all the end piece of legislation introduced to our parliament. So it was a combating misinformation and disinformation bill. And what this means, if it goes through, which it probably will, is that it will give our e safety overlords and the australian government complete right to say what is true and what's not true.

Implications of Government Control

I was actually so depressed yesterday, like, reading through the bill, because pretty much everything that Sal and I post online could be interpreted as mis disinformation because, you know, trust the science, am I right? So, pretty much it will make. It will, yeah. So social media platforms can be fined up to 5% of their revenue if they refuse to censor posts that our government deems as misinformation.

Concerns Over Government Alertness

So I don't even think the UK have gone as far with this kind of stuff yet. Really terrifying time. And then you combine that with the fact that they want to start banning. Well, yeah. Okay. So our prime minister and a few of our politicians have done the rounds recently, and media saying that they want to ban social media for children, ban social media for under 15s, under 16s, whatever.

Self-Responsibility and Parenting

And again, I don't think anyone's going to deny the effect that social media is having on teenagers. You know, it's well documented. It's a thing. However, it is not the government's responsibility to parent our nation's children. It should be up to the parents. And Albanese, Anthony Albanese, our prime minister, who I can't stand, I think he's a wet white. He.

The Facade of Protecting Children

Yeah, it's all under the guise of protecting children and, you know, we want to keep the children safe, but it's like, if you really gave a shit about children, you'd be getting the porn out of the schools, you'd be getting the gender ideology out of the schools. And a lot of people see straight through it. That will coincide with the Miss dis bill because it will. You know, it's going to bring in digital id.

The Rise of Digital Identification

We had a digital id bill pass a few months ago. It's all just very scary times. So the censorship, I mean, it's bad now, but it's going to get a lot worse. So that's just something I wanted to bring. I'm slightly more optimistic. I don't think that they're going to get away with this one.

Hope amidst Congressional Challenges

But one of the reasons is. One of the reasons is, so the Australian Human Rights Commission, like, you've got a. The. You've got the head of it, then you've got, like, the Human Rights Commission and the human rights commissioner, and then you've got, like, the sex discrimination. The sex discrimination commission, that's the one that's, like, going against me.

The Internal Conflict in Human Rights

And they are completely, utterly captured. But the human rights commissioner, Lorraine Finlay, she is actually against this mis disinformation bill, which basically means coming out of the Australian Human Rights Commission, they will defend your right to say that a man is not a woman, but the sex discrimination commission will force you to see him as a woman.

Contrasting Human Rights Views

That's how messed up the whole thing is. Gary. Celine. I was going to say, okay, amazing. Because just reading through the bill yesterday and just knowing, like, I mean, I don't want to deter this conversation into, like, other topics, but I guess, you know, we had a pretty rough go of it in this country during COVID and people, you know, posting certain opinions online that were against the narrative.

Historical Context of Rights and Freedoms

And, you know, pregnant women were being arrested in their kitchens over Facebook posts. So it's just. Yeah, I just can't help but think it's not going to be great. But, yeah, sales, right. It's. I have seen a few people come out and speak out about it. Hopefully, if there's enough pushback, I believe they tried to introduce it last year or maybe the year before, and it was knocked back.

Gaining Ground and Resistance

So hopefully there's enough. There's more pushback as well, because, yeah, we'd be well and truly screwed in the free speech department if that goes through. Okay. Yeah, we'll keep that on our radar. and if there's any. Anything that we can put on blast from here, like.

Call to Action for Support

Like I said, like we're. I'm Celine's news person. Whenever she has an article posted about her or someone's talking about her, I put it on blast on this account because in Australia, it. Depending on where you are, they might, you know, geo block you. So I think that we need to just keep spreading the word, keep screaming, keep pointing at these people.

Shaming Political Figures

Something that, like, Posey Parker in England was doing was that she was just taking note of which politicians do and do not know what a woman is when there's a politician who comes out. I saw someone from Australia do it yesterday. They listed the politicians who voted no against, like, women being female. Just shame them, make fun of them.

Mobilizing Public Awareness

Say, look at this person who's voting away our rights. You think that a lesbian has a penis. You think that a girl is really a boy trapped in a female body and that you should tell her that she's born wrong. Look at what a terrible person you are. Let them tell themselves.

Final Thoughts and Acknowledgments

Country spaces. We'll close out. I was just going to say to Celine and Sal, if they need anything shared, to also let me know. I'll put it out there on the blast myself, too. Absolutely. So whatever I can do to help you guys to do what you need to do. I do live in America.

Support Across Borders

Even though they're trying to curb our free speech in every way possible, I will still do it because, you know, it's my God given right, and I plan on doing it. So I've got both your backs. Def, thank you so much. Yeah. We have state chapters across the nation as well, where we are not afraid to use our free speech on this app anyway to get the information out there.

Solidarity in the Fight for Free Speech

So keep screaming, keep talking. Two years ago, these conversations weren't happening, and now people from all over the world are meeting together to discuss these issues. We're not wrong in standing in material reality. And when the other side is just built on a fundamental lie that humans can change sex or that a male is a female or vice versa.

The Power of Truth in Advocacy

All you need to do to win is to tell the truth. So take that this was a long conversation. Thanks for coming out tonight, guys. Appreciate this chat. This was like 2 hours. Nice. We'll be back in two weeks on Thursday, 08:00 p.m. eastern like we usually are.

Conclusion and Future Engagement

Thank you to our guests. Thank you to Sal, grover and Celine against the machine tuning in from California. California from Australia. Tonight. Palace was from California and also jess as well. We got a crash course in what's going on down there and we're going to just keep pointing at them and keep showing like this is, we don't want to end up like these guys.

Addressing Future Challenges

We do that to Canada sometimes it's time to do it to Australia. Just kind of show people like, this is where it's heading. This is where we don't want it to go. And make an example out of the people who are signing away your rights, because if they're the ones doing it and they're putting your tax dollars into passing laws that negatively affect you and that erase you, well, you should just be able to say that it's publicly documented that you're the people who are voting me out of the law.

Empowerment Through Transparency

This is who you are. Let them speak for themselves and show them, show the world what is actually going on and who the people behind this really are and what they're looking for, how they're trying to do it and why. Because once you see it, you can unsee it. All right, have good night.

Goodbyes and Gratitude

Good night. Have a good night, everybody. Talk to you soon.