Space Summary
The Twitter Space Inside Crypto: An Exclusive Interview with Wendy O hosted by CryptoEmpressX. Delve into the world of crypto innovation with Wendy O. as she discusses the evolving landscape of digital assets, from regulatory challenges to the transformative potential of AI, NFTs, and the Metaverse. The interview sheds light on the pivotal role of community engagement, the growth of DeFi, and the emerging concept of SocialFi. Discover how blockchain is revolutionizing gaming experiences and the importance of wallet security in navigating the crypto sphere. Stay informed on the latest trends shaping the future of crypto through this insightful conversation.
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Questions
Q: How does regulation influence the crypto market?
A: Regulatory decisions impact investor confidence, market volatility, and compliance for crypto projects.
Q: What role does community engagement play in crypto adoption?
A: Communities drive awareness, education, and long-term sustainable growth within the crypto ecosystem.
Q: Why are NFTs significant for digital asset owners?
A: NFTs enable unique ownership, monetization opportunities, and provenance tracking for digital creators.
Q: What challenges does DeFi face in terms of scalability?
A: Scalability concerns in DeFi include network congestion, transaction speed, and gas fees.
Q: How can AI enhance crypto technologies?
A: AI integration can optimize trading strategies, enhance security, and provide data-driven insights for crypto investors.
Q: What potential does the Metaverse hold for crypto?
A: The Metaverse offers immersive experiences, virtual asset ownership, and new economic models within the crypto space.
Q: Why is innovation crucial in the crypto industry?
A: Continuous innovation drives progress in blockchain technology, security protocols, and user experiences.
Q: What defines SocialFi and its impact on crypto investments?
A: SocialFi leverages social networks for investment decisions, community trading, and decentralized finance initiatives.
Q: How are gaming platforms integrating crypto features?
A: Blockchain integration in gaming enables asset ownership, decentralized economies, and play-to-earn models.
Q: Why is wallet security important for crypto users?
A: Secure wallets protect digital assets, private keys, and ensure safe transactional experiences for crypto users.
Highlights
Time: 12:15:07
Regulatory Challenges and Market Impact Discussion on regulatory hurdles and market reactions in the crypto space.
Time: 23:45:19
Innovative Applications of AI in Crypto Exploring AI algorithms for trading, risk management, and security in cryptocurrency operations.
Time: 36:20:55
Community Engagement for Crypto Projects Importance of community building and engagement for crypto projects' success and sustainability.
Time: 45:10:32
The Future of NFTs and Digital Ownership Insights into NFT trends, digital asset monetization, and ownership dynamics.
Time: 52:30:48
Decentralized Finance Innovations Overview of DeFi advancements, challenges, and the evolving landscape of decentralized finance.
Time: 01:10:12
Metaverse Integration and Crypto Opportunities Exploring the intersections between the Metaverse, NFTs, and cryptocurrency adoption.
Time: 01:25:01
Social Finance Paradigms in Crypto Impact of social networks, crowd wisdom, and community-driven investments on the crypto economy.
Time: 01:40:29
Gaming Evolution with Blockchain Discussion on blockchain gaming, play-to-earn models, and virtual asset ecosystems.
Time: 01:55:49
Enhancing Wallet Security for Crypto Users Best practices for securing crypto wallets, managing private keys, and safeguarding digital assets.
Time: 02:05:18
Innovation Frontiers in Crypto Technologies Exploring cutting-edge innovations, tech trends, and future possibilities in the cryptocurrency landscape.
Key Takeaways
- Understanding the impact of regulation on crypto market dynamics is essential.
- Exploring potential intersections between crypto and AI for innovative solutions.
- Community engagement plays a pivotal role in the widespread adoption of cryptocurrencies.
- Challenges such as security and scalability continue to shape the evolution of decentralized finance.
- The Metaverse represents a promising frontier for crypto integration and interactive experiences.
- NFTs are revolutionizing ownership concepts and digital asset monetization strategies.
- Innovation remains a driving force behind the ongoing development of cryptocurrency technologies.
- The rise of social finance is reshaping traditional investment paradigms within the crypto sphere.
- Seizing opportunities in the gaming industry through blockchain and digital asset integration.
- Wallet security and usability are crucial factors in enhancing user confidence in crypto transactions.
Behind the Mic
Introduction to the Session
All right, welcome, everyone, to Wolf Web three. My name is Kate. I'm the voice behind the accounts. Glad that I have everybody here. Happy Tuesday. Really excited to talk about bitcoin today. If you could take a quick second and repost the space for me. Bottom right corner, before we get started, helps us get the word out that we're talking bitcoin. And we love bitcoin. And yeah, man, help us out tremendously. Bottom right corner, the little purple pill down there and repost. It would be amazing. Amazing way to help us grow out this space as we try and take over the bitcoin conversation on x. And we will pray that the ex gods will allow us to have no audio issues today. And that will be our wish. But Gabriel is in the house. We got Adrian in the house. Mitchell, Justin, arsherish. I think we got a couple more people coming as well. But big shout out to you guys for coming up on stage.
Engagement and Acknowledgments
If you guys haven't already, be sure to check out those speakers and get involved with the things that they're posting and they're dropping knowledge bombs about while we have them here. They're the experts. I'm the guy just listening behind the accounts, and I'm going to poke and prod every now and then, ask a question if I can. And Gabriel's the guy, you know, he does a great job leading the conversation and coming with some great topics. So I'll turn it over to the main man. But, yeah, guys, thank you so much for being here. Please repost the space and I'll throw it over to Gabriel. Sounds great. Thank you for the introduction to the space. Today's, this week's topic is going to be bitcoin on the personal, corporate, and government balance sheet. Really excited to be discussing this. I know it's kind of something that a lot of different topics touch on, but I really wanted to take a sort of deep dive into the workings of how that's going to go and maybe some of the game theory that can play out and hopefully everyone will learn something here today.
Panel Discussion Begins
So with that, kind of want to pass it around the panel for some intros and then we'll get into it. So I'm just going to go right to left here. So I see Adrian, I'm going to pass it to you, Adrian. Hey, guys. Happy to be here. Thanks for the invite. Looking forward to the conversation. Great, great. Glad to have you here. Adrian Mitchell. How are you, sir? Doing well. Hope you all are as well. I'm excited to jam today. It's a good day to talk bitcoin, as is every day. Absolutely. Justin, pass it over to you. Phyllis, thanks for having me. Pleasure to be here every day working on studying bitcoin, raising my conviction, and helping other people do the same. So it's all about saving and why that's important. So looking forward to the conversation. Great. Great. Arsiris, how are you doing? Doing great. It's a. It's a wonderful day to be in bitcoin and it's a wonderful day to be in bitcoin in Wyoming. Absolutely. Could say that about almost every day. It's a wonderful day to be in bitcoin.
General Atmosphere and Audience Engagement
Lisa, I see you in the audience. Hopefully we can get you up here. Oh, there she is. I'll pass it to you, Lisa, if you got my audio. I got it. Hi, guys. I don't even know what day it is. Is it Tuesday? I'm not quite sure. Happy whatever day it is. Here we are again. Bitcoin is doing nothing and. And yet we're all back talking about it. Oh, yeah. What are you talking about in terms of price or other things? I haven't even looked at the price, but just seems like bitcoin is status quo. But we never give up. We're just on spaces all day. Gotcha. Yeah. No, I was going to say I can't believe Lisa would be all over the prices, but, yeah, because I don't look at the price anymore either. So much conviction. I don't even need to know. I always have Adrian text me if something crazy is happening.
Discussion on Market Trends
Yeah, no, I'll admit I look at the prices. I actually had to sell some this week, and that is absolutely effing painful. So I did look and I, you know, curse everyone else that's selling, but I had to sell a little bit and. But, alas, I'm still in love with it. I'm never. Yeah, of course. So I'll reintroduce the topic, then I'll kind of give us something to talk about. If you have any questions or you have any comments, as always, just throw up a hand. So there's three types of balance sheets out there. Three types of groups who are going about accounting for their assets, and obviously those are the government, corporations, and personal balance sheets. So I wanted to take this time to take one of those one by one. But I just wanted to bring up the one I thought was most interesting and has the most to talk about, at least at this point in bitcoin's adoption, which is the corporate balance sheet, and then we can get into either or respectively, depending on where the conversation goes.
Corporate Bitcoin Adoption
So when thinking about how bitcoin is used on a balance sheet, as many of us know, the most popular ones, microstrategy, they adopted bitcoin, and they have leveraged their balance sheet. And as Michael Saylor has said, he is not only selling a bitcoin security, but he is also selling a. He's stripping off the volatility and selling the bonds, which provide a whole new type of asset to the market and performing a trade that I think many of us believe is going to be written in the record books, about the history books. And then we have other companies like Semalar Scientific, Metaplanet in Japan, and then a whole list and variety of other companies that are. I think Lisa and I had spoken, Lisa and the panel had spoken about this, but even using bitcoin to defend their balance sheet. So I was wondering if anyone had some general thoughts on. On any companies that they'd want to talk about. Recently, Metaplanet acquired some bitcoin. But I was wondering, do you have any thoughts on that? Adrian.
General Thoughts on Corporate Usage
Your mic broke up a little bit for me at the end there. What was the last part of the question? Yeah, I was just saying if you wanted to take any one of the companies that we can talk about, but Metaplanet, the japanese company, did just acquire about $2 million worth of bitcoin. So I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that or any of the other companies using bitcoin in the balance sheet. Well, as a whole, I think that the move towards using bitcoin as a treasury asset is a growing trend. Now, even if we get to a point where we have a lot more adoption and a lot more acceptance in terms of bitcoin, I still don't know if this is something that every corporation is going to do. I do think is going to be something that a percentage of corporations do.
Adoption Trends in Corporations
In the case of Meta planet, I know they're being very aggressive proportionally with regards to the amount of bitcoin they're acquiring. Similar scientific. Just got the thumbs up on the s three, so we're waiting to see what they're going to do in terms of their acquisitions. And we know what Michael Saylor's doing, right. He's going to slam buy whenever he has the capital and whatever is most advantageous. So I do think that this trend grew a lot quicker than I thought it would. I thought microstrategy was going to be like a. One of one for quite some time before we saw the corporations jumping in, but we also have like Mogo, that's a smaller company that a lot of people don't talk about. We also have the fold app. We have other companies that have gone into having bitcoin treasuries.
Market Downturn Considerations
You have marathon adopting a bit of a bitcoin treasury. That's somewhat, I'm not going to comment on that, actually. They're adopting one. So I think this trend is great. And we also have the rumors about Dell. You know, you never know when that can come through the pipeline. So I do think that this trend and the corporations that are adopting it currently are ahead of the curve. Right. So the real question is, are they going to stick to it? Who's going to be the first on the break ranks or anyone? Any one of these companies in the years coming in a market downturn going to sell? Or are they going to be the stalwarts that get other corporations in to the cycle after this and the cycle after that. So I'm really excited to see where things are going to go.
Corporate Strategies and Adjustments
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, some of my own analysis on this is if you buy bitcoin as a company or even as an individual or I guess even in some cases the government, you're doing effectively two things. You're lowering your time preference on the completion of projects or the reaching of certain financial goals. And you're also, in the case of corporations specifically, I should say you're also marketing your company. You're saying, hey, we understand bitcoin. We understand its value, and we want to, you know, act as a treasury to our, we want to install a treasury to our company that's going to act as a benefit to the long term development of our products and services. I was wondering, Mitchell, do you have any thoughts on this?
MicroStrategy's Leverage
Yeah. To me, what I really love is, and I kind of like to distinguish between microstrategies, leverage, and then the regular sort of pleb leverage that a lot of people think about. Right? Because microstrategy is such a large institution and they have so much collateral, they have access to terms that regular people, we're just not going to get right. We're at a time right now where interest rates are at multi decade highs and the way microstrategy is structuring their corporate bonds. Like you said, they're sort of like monetizing the volatility. They're able to borrow at ridiculously low interest rates and they're able to do so over really long terms. Right. If you did the same play microstrategy is doing. You're borrowing fiat to buy bitcoin, but you had to pay back the loan within a year.
Risk Assessment in Borrowing
That's pretty high risk, right. Because, like, you know, I'm generally bullish over of what bitcoin may do over the next twelve months, but at the end of the day, no one knows. But a lot of microstrategy's notes, they're not having to pay these back for 710. Twelve years. Right. And assuming bitcoin does what we all think it's going to do, they're going to be able to refine that, right. They're going to be in a lot better position. So I think just viewing their leverage as inherently different and superior to what we're able to get as just retail people, I think it's pretty key. And I do think within sort of a balanced bitcoin portfolio.
Investment Portfolio Strategies
Right. Let's, let's say 100% spot bitcoin is like risk off. I think, you know, obviously that's contrarian opinion in Normieland, but I think all of us on stage generally agree with that sentiment. I do think there's a place for, you know, your microstrategies and I, your meta planets, your mining stocks within a bitcoin centered portfolio. Steven? Yeah, absolutely. Great commentary and great job, I guess, differentiating between long dated favorable loans and something that I've actually learned a lot about recently when Saylor was talking about it, which is this idea that you can sell bonds that are less volatile to institutions, and then you can profit from the volatility. You can give yourself basically a variation of the asset that you can arbitrage, and you're the only person who can really arbitrage it because you're instantiating the move.
Pros and Cons of Bonds
So it's really interesting and really cool. Right. And it's great for the institutions, too, because they want that bitcoin upside without the downward volatility risk. Right. And so when they buy these microstrategy convertible notes, their principle is protected, and they're giving up. Like, the opportunity cost for them is they could just buy bitcoin or microstrategy outright, but they don't want to carry that downside volatility risk, but they want exposure to the upside. So it's a great product for them as well. Yeah, true. Absolutely. And note that the debt that microstrategy is using is not only cheap debt, but it's also a lot of these are convertible notes, so they're even reducing their risk further off the debt itself when they can pay it back with shares of their stock.
Investor Sentiment on Dilution
Yeah, that's interesting that you mentioned that, Arstros. Do you think that some investors are turned off by the dilution or is it like very, I know, I just know from normies that I've talked to, they're like, oh, well, it's going to dilute now, so that's not good. I don't believe that just because I've also looked at the prices that the convertible notes convert at. But I don't know. Do you have thoughts on that? Arsurus no, I think that, I mean, the existing holders may be a little annoyed, but I think it ends up getting priced in. That risk gets priced in very quickly. So if you're an existing holder when they do this, maybe you're annoyed. But as it says, the price has to go up significantly before the conversion becomes viable.
Impact of Prices on Margins
And at that point, yeah, you're diluted, but the underlying has gone up so much. Do you care? Yeah, true. If it's priced in, I guess that'll work out well. Justin, what are your thoughts on this general conversation, corporations adopting bitcoin? Well, we know how slow they move so often, especially Wall street as a whole. What I'd like to ask you guys, there's no denying that there's an appeal to bitcoin on the balance sheet. And like this, I don't know how you would describe it, an innovative image, maybe that goes along with that. And Michael Saylor is kind of the face of that. But how long do you think before that really begins to appeal to other companies who see this as, you know, they really have nothing to lose.
Future Adoption Predictions
I mean, that's, there's got to be a growing sense of that amongst a lot of corporations and CEO's that we should tap into this innovative image that holding bitcoin has. Yeah, absolutely. And I think when you're looking at the government, I know, like, I don't mean to make it political, but regardless of who you think is going to be president, and even if you're like, wow, I really would like one person in particular to be president. The problem is the system itself is designed to continuously keep printing money. So to your point there, Justin, I'd be really curious to see when like, I don't know what would happen if a large number of people would just decide, oh, we need to move on bitcoin because the dollar is in trouble.
Attraction Towards Bitcoin Adoption
I think I heard Michael Burry, the guy who famously called the subprime mortgage crisis in 2008, he said in a speech at Vanderbilt, he's like, the point at which the interest on our federal debt eclipses the taxpayers ability to pay, will signal to the whole market that this is an overt Ponzi scheme. So when thinking about that in the context of bitcoin, I think it makes a lot of sense. And I don't know if it'll be feasible for companies to move on bitcoin like that, because there are some constraints in terms of how many people can onboard themselves. But those are just my thoughts, and I really like what you discussed there, Justin. Lisa, do you have any thoughts on this, corporations and such?
Corporate Hesitations and Responsibilities
Well, I mean, I just find it very difficult to believe that it's fine that we're having this conversation today, but, like, in general, that it's been 15 years and corporations still haven't picked up on this, you know, absolute necessity, right? It is a hedge against inflation. It is a tool for diversification. It is a store of value. The world is digital. You know, they don't do their accounting stuff with pen and paper. We use digital infrastructure for every single part of every single business. And so it's really hard for me to understand that a company like Google or Apple or, you know, some company I've never heard of doesn't hold bitcoin.
The Need for Bitcoin in Corporations
It's like saying, you know, we really like our calculators. We'll just keep these things. The world has moved on. We've moved on. We are digital. Everyone should own bitcoin. Our government should own it.
The Necessity of Bitcoin
I mean, I think we're going to talk about all this, but everybody needs bitcoin. It's a hedge against everything, right? It's a hedge against your losing your own energy, losing value over time. The only thing that is maybe perhaps as scarce as our time is bitcoin. And so I just don't see the logic of not having it. I think that on the corporate level, you know, maybe it's because you don't have to take the same oath as a doctor, the hippocratic oath, saying, you know, do no harm, but, like, it's your fucking shareholder responsibility, duty to your shareholders, stakeholders, people that use your products to protect your corporation. And so this is like being out in the corporate, you know, war rooms and not having, you know, those protective Kevlar vests, you know, or the latest firearms equipment, like, when you go to war, right? Like, how are we. How have we not adopted this technology and this, how has this just not become standard? You know, we all know that it is.
Owning Bitcoin as a Personal Responsibility
I would never, ever consider not owning bitcoin. I would never move to a place that wouldn't allow me to own bitcoin. I will never move to the state of New York because I cannot own a gun there. Like, fuck those people. You are wrong. I am going to own weapons. I am going to own bitcoin. And I'm only going to be around people that are like minded because everybody else is just kidding themselves. Or intellectually broken, I guess, is the nice word. Yeah, absolutely, Lisa. Yeah. And I want to get ars thoughts in on this, but, you know, one thought that just sparked my mind when you said that was, I think you could argue there's three different kinds of corporate buyers of bitcoin, right? There's the people who know the people who don't know, and then there's the people who know but won't move against move to get bitcoin because the fiat system is already treating them so nicely. So one of the companies you mentioned was Apple, right? If Apple moved to go and get bitcoin, I mean, I don't know what I mean.
The Hesitance of Corporations like Apple
The SEC, I think, might step in because the SEC is not an honest institution. Well, okay, but let's talk about that. Why doesn't Apple own bitcoin? And I've heard a lot of people say, well, because bitcoin is so small and apple, whatever, such a large percentage. And I hear that's total bullshit. Right. The reason that they don't own bitcoin is because they are in cahoots with these people who resemble communists who are in power in this country. We need to take back sovereignty, and they are fearful of retribution. Absolutely. That, yeah, that's where I'm coming from. That's. I don't know, sec, somebody's going to do something because now it's a problem. Now someone has slighted the people in charge, and it's, it's going to get attention. Another thing, Apple owns a ton of debt.
Understanding Debt Dynamics in Corporations
So why would someone own debt if they could pay for it in cash? Well, it's because they're getting favorable debt payments, debt loan agreements from the government, not from the private sector, from the government. And so. Yeah, great points there. I'm going to go Arsuras, then I saw Adrian throw up a hand. So we'll go arsirs then, Adrian. Okay, so I think there's a fourth company style that you didn't mention, companies that understand it and know better, but the fiat system is treating them so poorly, they are not positioned to add bitcoin to their balance sheet. And I'm speaking about some companies that I know. These are not publicly traded. These are privately held. Where they're small to medium sized companies.
Financial Struggles of Small to Medium Businesses
They're effectively the company's setup of paycheck to paycheck. Inflation is hitting them really hard. Their costs are going up. But still, they put bitcoin in the balance sheet because this month's receipts are paying for this month's costs. And so they can't handle the volatility, even though they know maybe the owner or some of the people on the board are already bitcoiners and they want to put it on it. But they're the ones getting the short end of the stick on the fiat system. So they can't break out ahead. They know that if they did, they might be able to. But the risk of the downside risk is too great in the short term. I've heard of several companies. Interesting. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because.
Seasonal Business Risks and Bitcoin
Yeah, that, wait, hold on. I mean, we're talking small businesses, I'm assuming, but. Yeah. Lisa, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I'm talking about small businesses. No, no, I heard that. What's the downside risk? Also, just to give. Yeah. One example is, let's say you have a seasonal business where you have employees to pay. If bitcoin were to take a, a, if you were to hold your treasury, which is really just your monthly receipts now in bitcoin, and it were to dump 5%, that could be enough that you seriously have a problem making payroll. Something like that. Im talking about smaller to medium sized businesses on the order of one to $10 million of gross a year. But theres a lot of them.
Challenges in Business Financial Management
Yeah, no, I get that. But, but like those businesses, I would seriously challenge them and say, quit stocking up on staplers and paper and other inventory type products and buy bitcoin with that 1% of the dollars that you have. Right. Like that's when you really have to investigate every dollar within any type of an entity of where today, and you've got to deploy, you know, call it if, even if it's 1%, you have to deploy a non 0% of your assets into bitcoin because what is certain is not that bitcoin. You know, all of bitcoin is volatile. And maybe it does take a shot down to five, you know, 5% or something. As you mentioned, one thing that is certain is that your dollars are becoming less valuable.
The Illusion of Dollar Stability
Right. And we've seen just the erroneous thought that holding in dollars is somehow protecting you and protecting a small business, when in fact it is not. Yeah, yeah. Great perspectives there, Adrian. I want to get your thoughts in on this. Yeah, no, so I think there are a few factors at play. The ones that have been mentioned, I think are very, very valid. I think that another aspect is that, for instance, in the case of microstrategy, Michael Saylor has majority control. Right. So he can boldly go upon this kind of path if he wins over enough members of the board and if he wins over enough corporate support. But in the case of Apple, how does.
Corporate Governance and Bitcoin Adoption
Well, I don't think it would be Tim Cook, but who would propose this and how are they getting a buy in from the board to go forward with it? Right. There's a lot of corporate b's. I think that kind of explodes when you are dealing with companies of that size, whether it be like Apple meta, Nvidia, so on and so forth. But another aspect of it kind of ties into what everyone else was saying. In the case of like, a corporate buyback, for instance, this is something I've been researching for like two years now, and I still can't find a set number on it. A lot of corporate buybacks are actually facilitated by debt, and that adds just more debt into the system while simultaneously propping up the corporate share price.
Debt-Fueled Corporate Buybacks
Right. And buybacks are actually illegal until the. Until the early eighties, for this very reason. It's the artificial propping up of prices, but now it's become a normalized activity. I think a lot of what we're seeing right now is the legacy system. They're facilitating more and more ways to keep assets in the system. Bitcoin theoretically represents assets that can exist outside of that system. So anything, any company of size, if we ever get to the point where like an Nvidia or meta or Apple tries to add bitcoin to the balance sheet, I think there'll be a very violent reaction in the form of market participants selling off the stock.
The Impact of Market Reactions on Bitcoin Integration
I think you can see like a Berkshire Hathaway like, player dumping stock. I think that they can face a lot of reprisals if they were to do it. And that's part of the reason, another reason why I think it's very unlikely, near term, for a company of that size to adopt it. Not that it will never happen. I just think that they'll face a lot of tailwinds. Sorry, a lot of headwinds. And it makes it something untenable for someone to take on unless they have the balls to do it. Yeah, I'm just going to push back again, though, and say that adopting bitcoin is not going outside of the system. We all need to stop and pause and go, wait a minute.
Bitcoin as a New System
The system is bitcoin. There is no other system that matters now. We don't use the mail system the way that we did. We all use email. We transact digitally for everything, and we now have digital scarcity and a money that the whole world can touch. Like, bitcoin is the system. And so by you not adopting it is basically you saying, I'm just going to bury my head in the sand over here and pretend, though, that even though I try to tell the whole world that I'm the sleekest, slickest, hot, shoddiest tech company in the world, I'm just going to ignore bitcoin. Right? I'm just telling you that is not going to age well.
The Future of Corporate Financial Strategies
In fact, I would say that from this day forward, we're no longer going along that path. Yeah, well, sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, but I have to say, you said that their debt financing most of these buybacks, that's insane. I mean, that's a crazy. That's a huge fact in and of itself. And to kind of like, you know, go back to. Against. To push back against lisa's point of pushing back, I would say, you know, they don't want the monetary system to be conservative. They don't want it to be thermodynamically sound. They want entropy because they control the dissemination of that entropy.
Control and Entropy in the Financial System
It's an abstracted system, and they're. I mean, it's demonic because, I mean, I don't know, it's. It's like they're playing God because they control the entropy in the system. Well, that's a problem. Well, that's. That's why. That's why I say it's. It is outside the system. So, yes, bitcoin is digital, but I can custody my bitcoin, and I do custody my bitcoin on. In cold storage. Right. So that there's no aspect of the legacy system as it exists right now that mimics that, even if you own real estate, that can still be seized if you don't pay property taxes.
Implications of Bitcoin Custody
Right. So as it stands, bitcoin is the only thing that allows you to remove your personal stake in that and hold it yourself that technically exists outside of the reach of the legacy system. So in terms of the buyback point, the figure I have seen is anywhere between 30% to 50% is debt financed. And these are whether or not the corporation has the need to finance it via debt or not. They do it because they get favorable debt terms. So there's so many layers to it, and I don't think it'll age well. I fully agree with that, but it's a matter of when. Is that five years from now or do they keep this train rolling for the next 60 years?
Future Perspectives on Bitcoin and Corporate Strategy
There are all kinds of factors that come into play that I think we're going to have to come to bear with concerns with rather. Yeah, definitely, Adrian. I'm going to go to Justin right now, but real quick, I just want to say if you're really, if you're enjoying this space and you're in the audience and you want this to get more reach, please don't hesitate to retweet this out and maybe quote, tweet, share it, tell your friends, or, you know, if you learn something, just tell them yourself. But, yeah, please do that.
Protecting the Fiat System
Justin, I'm gonna pass it to you. Yeah, I think my audio sucks a little bit, but I think if you boil it all the way down, if we're gonna use Apple as the example, then what it boils down to is protection and preservation of the fiat system that put them at the top in the first place. So because it's not just apathy or confusion, indecision about bitcoin, but it's. It's really rejection. I mean, think if. If Elon had not basically rejected bitcoin, I mean, Tesla bought and then sold what a, I mean, two luxury brands like that, what a partnership that would between bitcoin and I and someone like that, but really boils down to preserving the status quo that put them at the top.
Maintaining the Status Quo in Corporate Strategies
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely agree with that sentiment. Mitchell, I haven't heard from. I was just gonna pass back. What's up, cuz? I mean, I get, you know, Apple, big tech, they're kind of all in the oligarchy of power and the quote unquote days of the world. But Apple's not the central bank, right? They, at the end of the day, they are incentivized to do its best for their business and their shareholders. And I don't know the exact number off the top of my head, but they have somewhere in the ballpark of like four or 5 billion in cash on their balance sheet.
Corporate Incentives and Financial Strategies
Maybe it's more than that. But regardless, they have a lot of fiat, right. And I don't think the reason a company of that size hasn't adopted bitcoin yet is for anything other than the fact that there's just so many moving parts. Right. I think someone brought it up earlier that Michael Saylor is and has always been the controlling shareholder in microstrategy. So all it took was for him to figure it out. I think now that sort of the career risk of proposing bitcoin within any large institution is relatively gone. Right? I don't.
The Changing Landscape for Bitcoin Adoption
With the introduction of the ETF's and Blackrock and fidelity and or all these institutions turning into somewhat of bitcoin bulls, I don't think it's, you know, someone sort of sticking their neck out there in risking their job. If at one of these institutions they propose no. 1% allocation of their cash into bitcoin, I don't think we'll see Apple go full microstrategy. But I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect sometime after the next round of sort of a massive QE bazooka that we see a lot more of these corporations adopt bitcoin. Because that was the catalyst for microstrategy, right.
Possible Future Trends in Bitcoin Investments
Was the 2020 Covid money printing. And, you know, I would have thought that would have been a wake up call for more institutions. But, you know, like American Hodl says, everyone is always just a cycle late to bitcoin. So I think this cycle, sometime in the next couple of years, we're going to get some sort of massive expansion of the money supply. That's just the nature of how it works. They have to expand forever. And so I think at that point, we'll probably start to see a lot more institutions at least get some level of bitcoin expansion exposure. Yeah, 100%. And I really like the points that were made.
Corporate Stakeholder Dynamics
I agree with, like, 99%. But one thing I would push back on is this idea that Apple and any company that has a large stake in it, from Blackrock, State street, or Vanguard, I don't think that those companies are doing what's best for their shareholders specifically. They're not. I mean, I'm a huge fan of Avec Ramaswamy, and what he's done, spoken about, stands for his book, Woke Inc. I think is really interesting, just really insightful.
Corporate Interests vs Shareholders
But the biggest thing he talks about in there is this idea that those companies who are, I guess, for lack of a better term, corrupted by those three companies I mentioned, do not do what's best for their shareholders. They do what's best for their stakeholders, which is the extrapolation that the big finance companies, like, instantiated, I guess. And it's frustrating. And hopefully it can kind of. It can kind of be a good thing, because hopefully they. They decide to shoot this all down and other companies who are the Davids and not the Goliath's decide to buy bitcoin. I hope that's the case.
Exploring the Future of Bitcoin Integration
And. Yeah, I don't know. Lisa, what do you think of that? Do you think that's on point in terms of shareholders versus stakeholders? That's what I. That's where I at. Look. Bitcoin is the way you are going to adopt it if you are Apple. They have talked about it internally. There is someone within the bitcoin space who has worked at Apple and has worked at Tesla and has worked at another bitcoin company and brought it up with the powers that be over at Apple.
Internal Discussions on Bitcoin at Apple
And the answer was a hard and fast no. And so you can blame it on, you know, oh, it's too risky. You can blame it on whatever, but you are siding with yesterday. You are completely misallocating risk into what people keep calling the system, which is what we have today. And I'm just going to push back and say that what we have today is not the system. It is yesterday.
The Rise of Bitcoin
The system is now and forever will be the world surrounding bitcoin. Everyone will come into this world the same way that everyone now gets on an airplane and flies. Right. When planes were first created, a lot of people said they'd never get one. When electricity was, you know, first able to be installed in homes, I mean, people refused. They thought it was demonic, and they lit candles. Right? So it's the same thing that's happening right here. And for some crazy, foolish reason, all of us in this space were able to see it and find it and adopt it. And, you know, we're letting everybody else off easy by saying, oh, well, they must not adopt it because it's so hard and Apple's so big and it's such a monolith, and that's just not fucking true. The truth is that they're connected to the people that are acting, you know, to use whoever said in a demonic way. Right.
Truth and Untruth
There is only truth and untruth left in the world. And if you speak the truth, and if you act on the truth, then you have bitcoin. And if you choose to make excuses and participate in this clown show of central banking and, you know, everything that. That you know is connected to, then, you know, you. You're. You see, you might see truth, but you're looking the other way and you're supporting the untruths. Yeah, great. Well, very well said. Unless someone has, like, some last topics on the corporate side. I mean, we can obviously talk about it still, but, you know, throw up a hand, anything to say? But I think I really want to transition this conversation into the logical direction, which is the governments, the central banks, who's going to do what? And we can talk about El Salvador or the United States or Europe or anywhere, if anyone has any particular interest.
Cycles of Central Banking
But I guess where I could start this conversation, which would be with Mitchell, I really liked what you said there about quantitative easing and where we're at in the cycle. What I understand from that is there's a cycle that the Fed plays. You could look up the Federal website, I think it's St. Louis, some federal website. Everyone knows it, if they know. And you can see all the data about the Fed and you can just simply look at interest rates and see that it just goes up and down, up and down, in a very controlled manner. Some would say if they're intelligent and honest with themselves, that's a Ponzi scheme. Right? It just looks like a Ponzi scheme over and over again, where they're hiking interest rates, bringing them down, hiking and bringing them down, and then eventually at some parts of that cycle. This is relatively recent, where it's become, where we have become dependent on it, I would say post 2008, and when you're studying Japan, I guess post 1990s, this quantitative easing that comes about.
Impacts of Fiscal Dominance
So I was wondering, I think that was a solid intro, but I was wondering, Mitchell, if you had any thoughts on it, wanted to add to it, because I really liked the fact that you brought it up. Yeah, I think you hit it well, one point I will add is I think, and Lynn Alden articulates this far better than I can, is where we're at now with 35 trillion in debt, 130% debt to GDP, it doesn't really matter what the Fed is doing right now because we are in this era of fiscal dominance where the annual budget deficit is so large that even when rates are high, global liquidity and or I guess specifically dollar liquidity in this instance is still rising. Right. And so ultimately, when liquidity expands, that's going to find its way into hard assets. And obviously, I think bitcoin is sort of the winning horse in that scenario. And I guess where I would say, I think the government is going to get their bitcoin exposure because they have to get it.
Government's Bitcoins Acquisition
I think they understand that. The central bankers understand that on a deep level. But Jerome Powell and Janet Yellen, they can't just go execute a spot by, on Coinbase, right. And personally, you know, this is getting into speculative tinfoil hat area land, but I just honestly expect sometime in my lifetime, I'm 24, sometime in the next six decades, we'll see a 6102 of bitcoin that's held with Coinbase or other large american institutions. Like, I don't see any other way in which they can get a. A really large stockpile that allows them to maintain financial prowess over the rest of the world. Right. Because they're no longer going to have a money printer. And there's a huge math problem that doesn't really have answer. The answer is money printing, but it's the Social Security and Medicare obligations that they have coming up.
Demographic Changes and Ponzi Schemes
There's a change in the population, the demographics. You have fewer people that are young, working, paying into the system, and you have a bunch of older people retiring that are going to be dependent on these programs, right? And, you know, they're very much Ponzi schemes. And if we're starting society from scratch, I would say, let's not have them exist. But what's not going to happen is you're not going to see baby boomers get rug pulled on these programs, right? No politician is going to stick their neck out for that. It's political suicide. It would collapse the entire economy. So they're going to have to print to pay that. To pay that. And they need some way, because obviously in that scenario, the dollar is going to lose a ton of value.
Confiscation and the Future of Bitcoin
And so I think they get their bitcoin exposure by taking, you know, what's in perhaps the ETFs and then leaving holders with a dollar IOU. I don't know that's maybe too contrarian up with this audience, but if someone disagrees, I'd love to. No, you're 100% right. That's a hundred percent. What's going to happen if, you know, there isn't someone laying in wait right now at Coinbase who knows how to drain the swamp that's over there, right. Like you are 100% right. It is absolutely ludicrous crazy that the United States confiscated bitcoin and now Elizabeth Warren, the day after Trump, goes on stage and says, we're going to have bitcoin as a strategic reserve asset.
The Geopolitical Landscape of Bitcoin
She instructs whomever, those goons who control the United States is confiscated the bitcoin they confiscated. They start another selling campaign. And then we find out four days ago, Russia openly admits, which I've said for years, I was sure they were doing but theyve now openly admitted that they're mining bitcoin. Of course they're mining bitcoin. They're the second largest producer of natural gas in the world after the United States. We sanctioned them and said, you can't sell your oil and you can't sell your gas into a dollar denominated market. Right. You have no access to the free market. And so what did they do? They initially went to China and India, and maybe they still are probably selling some to them, but at depressed prices, at least initially.
Strategic Moves and Bitcoin Adoption
Of course, they were, like, scratching their heads going, you know what? We should just be fucking mining bitcoin. It's the most scarce asset on earth. And by the way, everything of value over time will be recorded on the bitcoin blockchain. How can we possibly protect space on this most precious ledger of all time? This is like being able to write the bible. Absolutely. We did not realize this. And we banned them from using currency with the swift system, which we couldn't do with bitcoin. Right. We banned them from quote unquote free market of the dollar denominated system. And guess what they did? They found the actual free market. Absolutely. And guys, this conversation is going to get much more dynamic.
Opening the Floor for Discussion
So hands are appreciated and polite, but if you guys want to just kind of open the mic up, that's cool too. So I'll go arceret. Yeah, Adrian, just jump in and, yeah. So I think that there's some. There's some great points being made here with regards to the, you know, the printing. I'm of the mindset, and this is, this may be where I'm a contrarian a little bit. I think the printing could go on that far longer than we think I really do. And that's just because until the dollar really definitively loses its position as the world's preferred currency, when I say definitively, I mean like a good chunk of the larger nations in the world are no longer using dollars and they're moved on to the BRICS system or something that I affect.
The Future of Global Currency
I think it can go on for quite a while. And the way they'll guarantee that is with war. So we're probably going to have a third world war at some point in the next few decades, if not sooner, and the cycle kind of resets from that point, because assuming that we are militarily victorious, we can then keep the cycle going just a little bit longer for another generation or two. So that's one of the areas where I think I differ from some on this topic with regards to bitcoin itself, I still think it's going to win. It's just a matter of when. And in the case of Russia, of course, they were mining bitcoin. I don't think Putin's going to come out and show all his cards.
Sovereign Control and Bitcoin
He's always going to have a few aces in the hole. And it's rather, you know, surprising, but yet still not surprising, that bitcoin is one of those, in terms of nation states adopting it. This is, again, where I am a bit of a contrarian. I don't think any sovereign nation serves their interests to adopt a currency they can't control. So I do think that it will be adopted, in a sense of becoming part of a parallel financial system, and it'll become a pristine. Well, it already is, but it'll become adopted globally as a pristine asset and so on and so forth in the terms of how gold is. But if you are a sovereign nation, why would you adopt a currency you can't control? The whole point of fiat currencies was control, and I do not see them any nation, whether it be America or another one, moving away from that model.
Potential Outcomes for Society
Unless we have full scale financial Armageddon along with warfare, along with famine, destruction, and despair on a planetary level, they're going to hold onto that until there's nothing left to hold onto. And I do believe that's the long term fight that we have in front of us. I wanted to speak to the concept of 6102 that Mitchell mentioned a minute ago. They're already gearing that up. Yeah, real quick, though. 1 second, Eric, I think you're on the panel, but could you mute your mic, please? Thank you. Eric, would love to intro you in a second. Arsiris, please continue. Oh, yeah. So with respect to the 6102, I think that they are actually actively gearing up for that here in the United States.
Legislative Preparations for 6102
Not just in the. In a sense of they can block coinbase and seize those assets, but actually look at the Corporate Transparency act, look at Operation Choke point. Look at what the presidential nominee has proposed for unrealized gains tax, whether or not that's even constitutional, impossible. If something like that were to pass, that's effectively a direct seizure of assets. All of these things are. It's the boiling frog 6102, not the. All of a sudden, overnight 6102. I don't know if that's feasible. I mean, they can seize Coinbase as bitcoin, sure, but how are they going to seize mine? I don't think they're going to it's not going to be a direct seizure of them coming and getting yours.
Challenges in Enforcement
But the vast majority of people, a lot of the people here in the United States, are going to own it through ETFs, and that's how they seize it. Sure. I do think that's an attack vector. Yeah. And of course, then there's the. Sorry to follow up on that, the secondary attack vectors, and this may or may not apply to people in this room, but if you do hold your own keys and have your own bitcoin, a lot of that is fully KYC'd, and the punishment that they'll meet out for. Oh, you actually. You haven't reported this bitcoin. We know you have it. And some people say, well, I don't have it anymore.
Consequences of Non-Reporting
Clearly, I can't access it. But then there'll be a bunch of people who say, well, I don't want to go to jail. And so here you go. Yeah, see, that's. That's where I'm going to. I'm going to say that I. The level of draconian enforcement, that would. That would require. I don't know if that's tenable for two reasons. One, there's more guns in America than people, and two, I do not see an environment where you're going to be able to enforce that and not have a wide scale revolution on your hands because of social media, because of disseminating information. You would have to shut down Internet, you would have to shut down communication channels.
Government's Overreach Considerations
You would then have to say that you are now telling people, because they own code, essentially, they can be put in jail. The levels that we have to go to enforce that, I think, would require something well past Nazi Germany, well past the most totalitarian, 1984 ish kind of state that we can think of. I don't think it's tenable. I think even if it's attempted, it'll go over, it'll have nasty consequences. I would agree with you if it's an overnight sort of thing, but I would disagree that it's untenable if it's a. Oh, we're not going to come and get you today, but you're going to eventually sell it.
Enforcement Mechanics of the Future
You're going to convert it to fiat. At some point, people are going to do that, you're gonna transact with it. And at that point, oh, you didn't report it two years ago, five years ago. We're gonna hit you with a 25% now, plus a 200% penalty at the time of reporting. And, you know, yeah, a lot of people. It will be leaky. It will be absolutely leaky. And 100% compliance is not what's desired. It's a lightning bolt of, oh, we caught you. So we're gonna come down on you like a ton of bricks. And those of you who we didn't catch, we don't really care because a lot of you are gonna comply because we came down on that guy that, you know, like a ton of bricks.
Decentralization of Compliance
Right. I mean, I, for one, I think this could be hugely jurisdictional. I think states rights are gonna be massively important and cause, Adrienne, you could definitely do this in New York or Chicago or San Francisco. I mean, most of those people don't even walk around with their head on straight. Like, they don't even. It doesn't even. They don't even think for themselves or anything. I mean, to control the information flow, in my opinion, would be super easy. But in a state where there's more freedom or there's less of the soviet style, oh, I'll tell on my neighbor type of thing, I think it would be very difficult.
Future of Financial Control
Yeah. I mean, so, look, I think it can be attempted. I just don't think long term. Even if we use the boiling frog example, theoretically. Well, not theoretically. If you take a look at the world I grew up in, when I went to an airport, for instance, my parents could walk up to the gate and kiss me on the cheek and put me on the plane. Right now we have a world where kids have grown up with nothing but the detectors. They take off their shoes, they put their stuff in a tray. They're far more adjusted to a world where they have less flexibility. Even in that case, you can now pay for clear and all this other stuff.
Monetizing Control
So they monetize the freedom in the sense that they can hammer people with penalties. Yeah, they could. But as the world becomes more and more connected financially, this is where game theory comes into play. It is in another nation's interest to actively seek out and to be a refuge for individuals that are looking to have freedom away from this kind of totalitarian overreach of government. Right. So there's so many different factors that come into play that's the reason why I say it's untenable unless you have global compliance. And if that happens, we're all fucked. So, you know, I mean, at that point, I think I'm just going to take my ball and go home.
Conclusion and Personal Stance
I'll take my bitcoin. I'll say, I have won a moral victory. It's still in my hardware wallet. I am not going to sell it, but I still have it. That's what I'm going to be stuck with at that point. But again, can it be attempted? Can they try? Absolutely. I just don't know if it's going to be able to be something that's actively enforced in the long term without not only national level compliance, but global compliance and controlling the flow of information and controlling the money and being able to enforce it. You're now putting people in jail for code. Like it's.
Complexity of Enforcement
There's so many layers to it. Just. I just don't know. I could be wrong, but I just don't know. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I don't disagree with you there. I think that the. But we are seeing people in England being put in jail for words, which is, you know, it's absurd, but we're seeing it. And so I don't, I don't think. I don't think you and I fundamentally disagree. I think you're a bit more optimistic about the future than I am. But I think that, yeah, we're going to live through some very dark times in the near future and I'm hopeful, but I'm not optimistic.
Introduction and Obligations
Real quick here, Wolf. How are we looking on going over a few minutes? Happy to. Happy to. This is a great conversation. Sounds good. As always. If you guys have other obligations, you're not forced to stay here, but we're going to go over here a little bit real quick. Eric Yates, you have made it onto the panel. Glad that you can join us today. You've jumped into a really hot conversation. We started off by, in this part, talking about 6102 attacks, game theory of the government confiscating bitcoin and all those kinds of good things. So if you had any thoughts on that, please feel free to jump in. Or if you just had some general commentary. Mike's yours if you want it.
Clarifying Perspective on Incentives
Yeah, I'm in an airport, sorry if it's loud, but no, I got nothing to really add. I'm just turning in. I kind of agree with some of the points being made of it was Adrian made a point, I think you were making some sort of point related to incentives of fiat economies wanting to have their own currency and that's aligned with, like, every country's interests. And I don't think that's necessarily true. I think that, you know, everybody is subject to constraints and of course every government wants that, but it's not just about incentives, it's about constraints applied to incentives. And there's, you know, a lot of examples of governments trying to implement their own fiat currencies and not failing and then them having to opt into a much larger currency. And you know, not every country has their own currency.
Neutral Systems vs. Dependency
So then they're put into a position of, well, would I prefer a neutral system or what? I prefer dependency on some alternative country. And that's where I think the game theory really works out in bitcoin's favor is that a lot of people would prefer a neutral system as opposed to dependency upon another country or even having your own currency, but using another country's debt as your reserves for your own currency. And neutral systems that are functioning more like a commodity, I think are going to make a lot more sense for a lot of those countries, and then it's going to work out in a lot more favorite. And, and a lot of this framework, it's, I think people look at like, oh, governments don't want this. That's bad. And there's a lot of like simplicity and argument around that.
Geopolitical Analysis and Frameworks
The reality is that like geopolitical analysis is really complex. And a book I'd recommend everybody is Marco Pavich's geopolitical alpha. I read that a while ago and I thought that was a great framework for how to think about the standardization strategies and perspectives that people have within the geopolitical frameworks and like consultations, et cetera. And I think that when you look at it from that perspective, geopolitical analysis is pretty similar to technical analysis by traders. And people are really wrong about everything all the time. And we can look at incentives based on constraints and like, that's the best way to into it. And. But yeah, in any event, that's kind of my input.
Sovereign Nations and Their Interests
Yeah, but, so the one distinction I'll make that your points are well taken, but that's why I said sovereign nation. So a sovereign nation in my mind doesn't have that dependency. So in the case of America, for instance, we don't have the dependency of having to even consider another nation's currency because we do not have our own or ours is too weak. Or even in the case of like the eurozone, right. A sovereign nation would be United States, a sovereign nation would be China. Those are the examples I would use. And it is not in their interest to have a decentralized currency that they cannot unilaterally control. That's what I meant in the other examples.
Conviction in Bitcoin Amidst Government Pressure
Absolutely. I think that is absolutely true that something like bitcoin would be far more attractive. And that's where, tying into my previous example, I would say in the case of the draconian overreach of the United States government getting to the point where they're going to slam you if you even try to spend your bitcoin. That's where those nations could become attractive in terms of a refuge for individuals looking to get away from the overreach. And at that point maybe they'll stop flights or something like that, I don't know. But that's neither here nor there. But that's the distinction I would make between the two.
Debating Future Scenarios
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think the simplicity of all this argument is that bitcoin is water and incentives are gravity and it's going to follow the path of least resistance. It'll get there one way or another. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, definitely. Very well said. Justin, a little while ago I saw you flash your hand. Do you have any thoughts on this? Yeah, just real quick from a practical standpoint, I mean I maybe for people hearing this and there's a little bit of anxiety involved in hearing about six thousand one hundred and two s and I mean, honestly, you've got to admit they probably haven't begun to fight.
Personal Conviction in Bitcoin
However that fight comes. I know what I've done just personally is sit down in a chair with my eyes closed and just meditate on everything. And my conviction is so high that however that happens, they're not getting my bitcoin. And I'm not kidding, I'm not exaggerating even a little bit that I'm perfectly content to ride it to zero if that's what the market does. And if the government says give it up and we'll give you an IOU for dollars or CBDC, they're not getting it. So I will not be one of the masses that just turns it over, surrenders it. I'm perfectly content to, and trust me, I've got it locked up so tight I couldn't do that anyway.
The Nature of Property Rights
So literally put a gun to my head not getting my bitcoin because I can't give it to you. So just a belief in conviction in bitcoin, however that fight happens to, it's not going to affect me because I'm not giving it up. I mean it's mine, I own it. So you know, I'm 100% convicted on that. Yeah, absolutely Justin. And I really like what you said there real quick. If anyone in the audience is confused, I'm sure a lot of people up here are familiar with it. But the term 6102 refers to FDR's signing of the 6102 executive order to confiscate all the gold during the Great Depression in 1933. So that's where that term comes from.
Addressing the Value of Bitcoin
But, yeah. Anyway, back to address your points there, Justin. I really think that, yeah, I'm in the same boat as you in terms of riding it down to zero, although I would define the lower boundary as a little bit different than zero. Right. Because, like, price is one thing, and whatever the bank gangsters tell me, the price is, like, okay, that, sure, that's the price, but the real value lies in the network. And if the nodes are still running and if the miners are still churning out hash, and if that continues, then even if they value it at zero, or even if there is no liquidity in the market, there's zero trading volume.
Transacting Bitcoin Regardless of Market Value
Well, it still works if I want to send it. And we could rebuild it anywhere else in the world, geolocation wise or anything like that, and just copy paste it over, no one's property would be destroyed. I think when you think about it like that, you're like, dang, my property rights are not. Not only are they very well, you know, conserved, and can I settle transactions anywhere around the world, but someone would have to go and break through 632 x a hash of compute wall to get to it. So it's probably the most secure asset in the world, but, yeah, no, that's great commentary, Arsiris. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Concerns about Authority and Firearm Access
I mean, yeah, I think. I basically agree with that. I think that even 6102 was a very porous. People did comply, but it wasn't very much. Obviously, the institutions complied, but individuals, it was random and light. And so I see that as being how it happens. And, yeah, I think the game theory that Adrian discussed about people moving out and moving to jurisdictions that are friendlier, that's clearly the. The way things are likely to play out. I'm just very nervous about how bad it can get. I think that while the access to firearms here in the United States is still one of the bulwarks that's kept us somewhat on the right side of things.
Nervous about the Future
And I've moved myself to a jurisdiction where I feel a lot more safe than, say, New York or California. But I'm still, you know, I'm still nervous about how things will go in the next five years. I think we're in for a bumpy ride, not just in price. I agree with you there, because our leaders are fucking psychopaths. So you don't know what the hell they're going to do. So I would definitely agree that is where. That's one of the areas where my optimism runs into a very harsh brick wall. They've shown that they are sycophantic, sociopathic, psychotic despots that will hold out of control by any means necessary.
Hope Amidst Uncertainty
And it seems to only be getting worse with time. So I fully agree with you there. Do I think it can get bad? Yes. I'm just holding out hope that before we hit that point, shit gets a little too real and hits the fan and there's some kind of proportional adverse response. Definitely. Definitely. Lisa, haven't heard from you in a while. Do you have any thoughts on this? I was unable to participate in the rule part of you have to hold your hand. I mean, raise your hand.
Building the Future of Bitcoin
So I just was looking at my email. I mean, look, we've got to quit talking about the way things were and we've just got to go build the future. And you guys are doing a great job here at Wolf. You're on spaces like 23 of every 24 hours, and a bunch of other folks, including Eric Yates, who just joined us, are out, you know, doing things to build bitcoin companies up. I think that is the way. Talk to your neighbors, go on LinkedIn. It's totally uncool, but it's not an echo chamber for bitcoin yet.
Spreading Awareness About Bitcoin's Benefits
You know, go and go, infect the public with this, with the truth, because once you see it, there's just no going back. There is no other system. There is, you know, risk lies in everything except bitcoin. So people need to understand that. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you. Thank you. And thank you, everyone for all of your time. I think we're going to go around the panel. We can do some closing thoughts. Be as, you know, brief as you want or as elaborate as you want, but then we'll probably wrap the space up.
Closing Thoughts from the Panel
I'm going to go Eric Yates first, or Yates first of all, thank you so much for joining. After being at the airport, on your way out, I hope that you tell some of those TSA people to stop monetizing our freedom. It's a little ridiculous, but no, I'm just kidding. But yeah. Any closing thoughts passed to you? I think Lisa nailed it. I repeat everything Lisa said. Go build something. Become a part of this. We are all the market.
Participating in Change
It's not about sitting on the sidelines and waiting for other people to do stuff. Absolutely. Arsuras to you, sir. Yeah. I mean, as much as people in some spaces. I don't mean Twitter. I mean just in general. Look askance at politics. You know, politics is part of culture and, you know, making sure that even if not federally, but locally, the people who you elect are at least sensitive and would resist maybe sheriffs and things like that would resist evil and demonic laws from the feds.
Engaging in Civic Duty
Look at that. Make sure you're participating because if you're not, then you're on the menu. Absolutely. As Dennis Porter, a guy we've had on these as many times, quoted Plato's quote, if you do not stand up to become a leader, you're doomed to be ruled by your inferiors. So just a point to make to go along with the Arsara said, thank you for that commentary. I'm going to go to Justin.
Personal Responsibility and Bitcoin Education
Yeah. I can't control what corporations or Wall street or governments do, but I can raise my conviction. I can help other people. Bitcoin education. When you're lying in bed awake at night worrying that you still hold so much fiat, stocks, bonds, treasuries, they're all dying against bitcoin. And cash is an ice cube that's melting. So invest only as much bitcoin and fiat as you're willing to lose and help other people to study bitcoin and get that conviction as well.
Importance of a Solid Understanding of Bitcoin
Absolutely. Very well said. Lisa. If you had any additional thoughts, I'll pass to you, but I'm gonna go to you. Again. I hope that you guys will join me. I'm not working for a company and I always felt a little bit throttled and really saying what I felt I on spaces and publicly. But I think it's time, you know, we need to kind of live our life through the perspective that's.
A Skeptical Perspective on Humanity
Oh, my gosh. I'm forgetting who wrote this. Pierre Richard's counterpart at the Nakamoto Institute, Bitstein. You know, everyone is a scammer, right? Like, I think we all need to look at things through that lens. Everyone is a scammer. And just focus on the truth. If someone is trying to convince you why bitcoin is risky, then explain what risk is to them. If someone points out its volatility, explain volatility to them.
Patience and Conviction
We need to be patient and kind, but we need not to support thesis that there is any other system. There is no other system. Bitcoin is the system. Absolutely. Very powerful words. And you, along with everyone here, such a pleasure to have you. But thank you for that commentary. Lastly, we're going to go to Adrian and then we're going to wrap this Adrian?
Final Thoughts
Yeah. This was a fantastic conversation, guys. I enjoyed hearing everyone's perspectives. I think every single one of us has a very valid, very pointed perspective that should be considered, and that will be a factor going forward. And I do think that we are, you know, we've hit a turning point. Bitcoin is getting to the point now where it's no longer a matter of even intellectual exercise, that it's going to be stopped. Right.
The Future of Bitcoin
So that's step one. Now we have to work throughout the fixing the money part of thesis, and then we can fix the world. And I think that's what we're going to be doing. Absolutely great. Very well said. This panel was exceptional. We went ten minutes. Overdose. Hope Wolf is okay with that. I know he is. He's a bitcoiner over there.
Concluding Remarks
But, yeah, this was a great conversation. This is one I'm definitely going to be listening back to. Amazing. We host these every single week, same time, just, yeah, get out there, talk about bitcoin, learn. And as many have set out here, build with bitcoin, build on bitcoin, build next to bitcoin, build all over bitcoin, and that's all. With that, I'm going to pass it back to wolf. Thank you guys so much.
Final Comments on Bitcoin's Value
Yeah, the comment about fiat being an ice cube that's melting. That was fire. That was fire. That was one of those. That was my drop, so, yeah. Thank you guys so much. Please follow all the speakers on stage, repost the space, and we'll see you all later. Guys, thank you so much for spending some time with us. Take care.
