Space Summary
The Twitter Space IBC for Everyone – Share Your Ideas to Shape the Interchain hosted by cosmos. The IBC for Everyone space delved into the intricate world of Inter-Blockchain Communication, highlighting the significance of seamless data and asset transfer between diverse blockchain networks. Emphasizing collaboration, security, and scalability, the space underscored the pivotal role of partnerships, education, and innovative applications in shaping the interconnected economies of the future. With a focus on governance models, interoperability standards, and community engagement, the discussions illuminated the transformative potential of IBC in revolutionizing digital interactions and enhancing blockchain ecosystems.
For more spaces, visit the Infrastructure page.
Space Statistics
For more stats visit the full Live report
Questions
Q: How does IBC promote collaboration between different blockchains?
A: IBC enables secure and efficient data and asset transfer, fostering collaboration and interoperability.
Q: What role do partnerships play in the success of IBC ecosystems?
A: Partnerships help in expanding the reach and impact of IBC, driving innovation and growth.
Q: Why is education crucial for the adoption of interchain technologies?
A: Education enhances awareness and understanding, promoting the adoption of IBC across diverse user bases.
Q: What factors are essential for ensuring secure interchain transactions?
A: Security protocols, privacy measures, and governance frameworks are vital for safe interchain interactions.
Q: How can innovative applications of IBC revolutionize digital asset transfer?
A: Creative use cases demonstrate the transformative potential of IBC in redefining digital asset exchange and interaction.
Q: How does community involvement drive innovation within the interchain landscape?
A: Open dialogue and community participation lead to innovative solutions and sustainable growth in the interchain ecosystem.
Q: What are the key benefits of integrating interoperability standards in blockchain ecosystems?
A: Interoperability standards ensure seamless communication, data exchange, and integration between diverse blockchains.
Q: What impact do governance models have on the efficiency of interchain systems?
A: Effective governance enhances efficiency, reliability, and consensus mechanisms within interchain networks.
Q: Why are scalability and enhanced functionalities important in the interchain concept?
A: Scalability and enhanced features provide agility, security, and improved performance across interconnected blockchains.
Q: How do strategic partnerships contribute to the development of IBC?
A: Partnerships drive ecosystem growth, innovation, and the scalability of IBC solutions.
Highlights
Time: 00:15:42
The Power of Interoperability in IBC Exploring how IBC bridges blockchain silos to enable seamless data and asset transfer.
Time: 00:25:18
Community Collaboration for IBC Innovation Discussing the role of community engagement in driving innovation within interconnected blockchain ecosystems.
Time: 00:35:05
Strategic Partnerships in Shaping the Interchain Future Highlighting the importance of partnerships in expanding the impact and adoption of IBC solutions.
Time: 00:45:29
Security Measures for Interchain Transactions Addressing the significance of robust security protocols and privacy measures in ensuring safe interchain interactions.
Time: 00:55:10
Governance Models and Efficiency in IBC Networks Examining how governance frameworks enhance the reliability and consensus mechanisms of interchain systems.
Time: 01:05:44
Educational Initiatives to Promote IBC Awareness Importance of education and awareness campaigns in fostering understanding and adoption of interchain technologies.
Time: 01:15:20
Innovative Use Cases for Interchain Applications Showcasing diverse applications that demonstrate the transformative potential of IBC in digital asset transfer.
Time: 01:25:37
Scalability and Enhanced Functionality in the Interchain Landscape Benefits of scalability, security, and improved features in shaping the interchain concept.
Time: 01:35:48
Ecosystem Development and Interconnected Economies Examining how ecosystem growth and development contribute to the success of IBC ecosystems.
Time: 01:45:55
The Future of IBC: Trends and Perspectives Discussing future trends and perspectives that will influence the evolution of interchain technologies.
Key Takeaways
- IBC facilitates seamless interoperability between blockchains, allowing data and assets to move efficiently.
- Collaboration and idea-sharing are fundamental in shaping the interconnected economy of the future through IBC.
- The interchain concept offers scalability, security, and enhanced functionalities for diverse blockchain ecosystems.
- Community involvement and open dialogue drive innovation and sustainability within the interchain framework.
- Strategic partnerships and ecosystem development play a crucial role in expanding the reach and impact of IBC.
- Education and awareness initiatives are key to promoting adoption and understanding of IBC across different user segments.
- Interoperability standards and protocols are essential for ensuring seamless communication and data exchange between blockchains.
- Governance models and consensus mechanisms within the interchain landscape contribute to its overall efficiency and reliability.
- Innovative use cases and applications of IBC demonstrate its potential to revolutionize digital asset transfer and interaction.
- Security and privacy considerations remain paramount in the development and implementation of interchain solutions.
Behind the Mic
Introduction to the Space
Welcome, everyone. We are waiting for the guests to arrive. In the meantime, take a seat because we will start in a couple of minutes. All right. In the meantime that all the guests arrive. Welcome to everyone. I will start with a short introduction today's space because this is really a special space because we will be talking about ideas. And I think that ideas are some, one of the things that is the most beautiful, because ideas are really what allow us to dream. And I think that this ecosystem is full of brilliant ideas. And one of the most interesting aspect is that an idea doesn't require technicality. Everyone can bring an idea to life. And today we will be speaking exactly about this, because Cosmos was just an idea, the Internet of blockchain was just an idea. But then IBC arrived, and IBC was that initial concept that technical people brought to life. So you start from an idea that maybe it's not possible, but then you have support, you build a team. And we have founder today, amazing founders that actually brought that reality, took that idea, and today they have amazing products.
Participation and IBC Ideaton
So what you need to do to participate, because now it's your time to actually join this ecosystem. And this is one. This IBC ideaton is open to everyone. All you need to do is basically sign up and you can participate to win $30,000 in prize, which actually will be in atom. And also you can participate to different tracks like Solana, Defi, apps, chain, abstraction, intent and incentives. And the wildcard. What is the wildcard? Well, it is wild, so you just need to go check it out at ideas ibcprotocol dev. So with this short presentation that kept me out of breath, I will start to introduce the guests. So welcome Aron from osmosis. Feel free to introduce yourself. Hey, thanks for that intro, Rob. Yeah, I've been with osmosis for three ish years. Started off with the DAos on the OSL, the support lab, and then the osmosis ministry of marketing. then eventually migrated to join the foundation team.
Introduction of Guests
I basically lead a lot of the growth and strategy efforts. This, this pertains to like, partnerships, relations, building out the ecosystem, even, you know, things like going to events, all the bd. This would be what I focus on. yeah, excited to be here. Awesome. It's amazing to have you. Also welcome Grego Suri from macash. Feel free to do a short introduction. Hi, thanks so much, Rob. My name is Greg. I'm the CEO for overclock Labs and one of the founders of Akash. I've been with Akash since the beginning and I've been big users of cosmos for a very long time. In fact, believe Aakash is one of the first cosmos chains. I'm currently in Utah for permissionless, so if you're around, come say hi at the Akash booth. We also have Brianna from the Solana foundation. Please feel free to introduce yourself.
Brianna's Introduction
Hi everyone. I work at the Solana foundation for developer relations and I previously worked in the Cosmos ecosystem as a rust smart contract engineer. So kind of have some experience on both sides of this. So, yeah. We are also waiting for Yelena from novel to arrive. And in the meantime, I want to remember the audience that if they want to participate to the ABC and the idea don and learn more. You just really need to click on the ABC protocol on my side and you can find the link to start to discover it. Of course, please don't do it now because I still want you here because we have a lot of insight to share today and it will be quite exciting because some of the questions are very interesting. And especially if you really want to build your idea and bring it to life, you really need the insight of people that made it possible. And today we definitely have it.
Structure of the Discussion
So stay with us. In the meantime that Yelena arrived, I want to explain the structure of this space, which will be a quick discussion about ABC. Then we will dive on the section where we alight what these projects are building. And lately, that's where you will get the real insight, because we will talk about the experience of the contributors and how they brought their idea to life, if they have any advice. So stay with us until the end. So I will start with Aaron, since it was the first to be introduced. And I want to ask you a big, quick question, which is why osmosis is so awesome, which is a very easy question, but how osmosis became an early adopter of IBC, because many of us know the story. But maybe some of the audience want to know what is the origin story of osmosis and how basically became the first project to bring IBC to the market.
Osmosis and IBC
Yeah. So your first question is, like, why is osmosis so awesome? I think largely we have a Gigachad team on the foundation side and also the community and ecosystem. they also are huge contributors. So, you know, if you go, ask people to, like, give a testimony on osmosis, they're going to say, like, how the hell do they have this giant support team that is around 24/7 so if you go right now and you want to try it out, you can literally test out the support and they should be responding to you within a minute. And this has existed for essentially the last three years. so, you know, people love that the osmosis community takes care of, the community is always there, responsive, and also triages all issues for anyone that's having struggles onboarding to osmosis. But of course, on top of that, the Dex, I would dare say, has the best DeFi or Dex experience in the entire industry.
Evolution of Osmosis
Now, this hasn't always been the case. This has been a long journey, but the product side has pretty much hit. It's like endgame over the last six months. If you go test it out right now, all the old bugs. Bugs are everywhere, of course, but all the tedious little issues that pop up. Something's taking too long to load or a transaction has gone through, but it hasn't displayed properly. These are all gone. Given that block times are close to a second nowadays, it's also pretty seamless. And how many users, or let's say, how many retail users are actually going to notice the difference between, you know, like a one or two second block time to, like, a sub second block time. They're, they're probably not going to care too much. They just want it to be snappy and, like, accurate. they don't want these little, front end bugs to be persisting.
Bringing IBC to Market
So these things have all gone away. But then, you know, back to the other question of, you know, how is osmosis this? you know, the. The first to, like, really bring IBC to market? Well, the now, osmosis wasn't the first to implement IBC, of course. Was that Iris or Akash? Or, wait, was Akash the first IBC transfer? Iris. It was Cosmos hub and Irisnet. But then the first transfer was actually Akash and cosmos. Yeah, yeah, that's right. But osmosis was the first to actually bring the, put together the need for actually exchanging assets and baking in IBC with that. So, you know, the first Dex to actually, you know, bring it to the market. So right now, osmosis has a lot of the assets that don't have a native home.
Osmosis' Role
Like, Akash doesn't have its own native Dex that's widely used. And osmosis is one of its primary trading venues for the AkT token, and same thing with, like, Celestia and now a lot of assets that are in other ecosystems, but users in the cosmos don't want to go and explore. Osmosis also has those available such as bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, avalanche, Polkadot, they're all available on osmosis. So osmosis is able to provide this for everyone in the cosmos ecosystem pretty easily. Yeah, I think it's pretty visible. The evolution as interchange index that literally allow user to basically trade almost everything. So great work there. Now we go to Akash because, Greg, you literally have the experience of seeing the first ABC transfer, which was Akash atom, and basically how the taproot, like how you were so early on IBC, but especially what does it mean for a cash network to be part of an interconnected ecosystem?
Akash's Story
So you want the real story? I want the most interesting one. We want the real story. The real story is. So we started work. We started using tendermint to build our layer one in 2018 to 2019 timeframe. Believe we are one of the first projects to do so. And this is before cosmos SDK existed. So that means we had to go build out all the modules ourselves. And so the account module existed. I can't remember, but quite a lot. The user module did not exist. Staking did not exist. None of the modules we take for granted existed. So went out and built entire modules that while Cosmos team was working on building their own stack of modules, so there was double work and our modules weren't as stable because, you know, while we're building modules, we also had to build a cloud.
Challenges Faced
So there was quite a lot of work we did, and we launched a bunch of testnets in 2019 2018 timeframe and test go well, I mean, there was a lot of stability issues. There's also this whole, like, I don't know if you remember the fight between IBC, ABCi and GRPC, thanks to Jaquan. So there's a lot of stuff that was like, I can't remember. It was like ABCi moving to GRPC and GRPC moving back to ABC is. And that was just, I think, ended up being a mixed part of bunch of statics. So it was very annoying. It was so annoying that the choices I had was either go fix our code or move to Cosmos SDK. So the choice was clear.
Transition to Cosmos SDK
Instead of fixing your code, we deleted about 70,000 lines of code on Akash repo. There's this massive pull request from Adam and implemented Cosmos SDK, which was much nicer, by the way. So the real reason why we got an IBC was because tenderweight was super unstable and our modules weren't that great. Well, that's awesome. And literally anytime you are in the show, you bring all these stories, which is absolutely amazing. In the meantime, we have also Yelena just joined from Noble, and I'm super excited because. But to add a little bit of context, right, this is in 2019 2020. I think osmosis launched, and Akash, Iris, and I believe Cosmos hub were the only chains that were on Cosmos IBC.
Early Adopters of IBC
If you look at the IBC map, there were, like, literally three dots on that IBC map, on the map of zones, and. And we had no tech support being cosmos. It was. It was kind of isolated, right? Because Cosmos didn't. Hub did not have Dex and osmosis when it launched. I was so excited because it's the first time you had a Dex while Ethereum has had uniswap and a whole lot of, like, Dexs pancakeswap or whatever, you know, pineapple swap or whatever. There was no Dex for osmosis, and the liquidity was very thin back then. This is in 2020 when Atash launched, osmosis launched. So. And I was one of the first lp's. Like, if I remember, on osmosis, my APR was 3000% on day in the first week.
Impact of IBC on Akash
Yeah. IBC was extremely beneficial because the. I mean, osmosis was the primary way of people for people to get AKD tokens, and then we had all the centralized exchanges that came way later. So I think osmosis still is the primary way. Primary. Like Dex for Akash. Yeah. So IBC brought a lot of those benefits that didn't exist for Akash. And that's really awesome. Like, I would love to go back to that time when mozzies was just launched just to experience better that moment. But now we are in the present, and Noble is one of the projects that is mostly showcasing the power of IBC.
Yelena's Introduction
So, Yelena, feel free to first introduce yourself, and then I will follow up with a question. Hi, thanks for having me. Yelena here. Yeah.
Introduction to Noble and its Purpose
So I guess I can introduce Noble briefly and then talk about kind of what we are building in what I'm calling the second phase of Noble's kind of life cycle, I suppose. And. Okay, I'll begin. So Noble was built with a very specific kind of purpose in mind. So typically, kind of, when you think about app chains, you think about kind of these purpose built app chains that have one very specific kind of use case, or you think of app change as something more generalized, where you can have multiple applications kind of running one dedicated chain. You could think of Noble for now, as the former. Right. We have one very specific use case, and that is stablecoin issuance within the broader IBC ecosystem. And of course, with that comes settlement as well.
Noble's Role in the Cosmos Ecosystem
And so we started off with bringing USDC into the cosmos ecosystem. I should note that for now, there's actually two kind of prominent stablecoins in the cosmos ecosystem, one being USDC Vinoble and the other one being tether via kava. And you can actually see through kind of metrics and just generally, looking at the adoption of each stablecoin that USDC over via noble has vastly kind of overtaken tether. And that's for a few reasons. One, we're very much IBC aligned, and we built USDC on Noble in a way that makes it really straightforward to send your USCC from noble to osmosis to Akash to DyDX, kind of in this one click way where you're always preserving kind of the fungibility of the asset.
USDC Implementation Details
So we have things kind of like routing through noble to kind of preserve those fungible properties. And of course, we built out the USDC kind of implementation as Cosmos SDK modules. So we didn't decide to kind of use smart contracts or anything like this, because we actually find that this module framework is a lot more beneficial for issuers in terms of things like redemptions and things, in terms of putting in certain permissions and checks and things like this. And so overall, because we, of course, built USDC to be super easy to use over IBC, and because we built USDC as a SDK module, among other reasons, we've seen USDC over Noble really take off as kind of a dominant, stable coin within the broader cosmos ecosystem.
Interoperability and CCTP Implementation
One other thing to note is we look at IBC as one interoperability primitive among many. So another thing that we. Well, not many, but a few. So one other thing that we kind of made a really important point of is making sure that with Noble's CCTP implementation. So this is Circle's crosshair transfer protocol. This is Circle's native bridge with this implementation on Noble, which, by the way, was the first non EVM implementation of CCTP even before Solana, is you can actually directly mint, for example, USDC on osmosis by burning, let's say, your USDC on Ethereum in this like one click fashion, right?
The Practical Use of CCTP
I have USCC on Ethereum. I want to take that to osmosis in one click. I do that by using CCTP from Ethereum to Noble, and then something called a forwarding module from noble to osmosis, which of course includes IBC as the last leg of that journey. So, again, making sure that things like that IBC is very flexible and very well kind of connected to things like the CCTP workflow that noble built out is really important to us. So we're not looking for noble to be this sort of place where all of the stable coin liquidity lives. We're actually really much looking to be a proliferator of this stablecoin liquidity from noble to many other destinations.
Thesis and Future Outlook
And that was always sort of our thesis, from the very beginning and something that we're continuing to kind of work towards. So that's a little bit about noble and kind of how we're using IBC right now. But of course, there's a lot more that we can dive into and. Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. I had a question. What's the TVL of tether? Because Noble is at 283 right now. Yeah, it's a good question. I haven't checked in a little bit, but the last time I did check, the overall TVL was similar.
Discussion on Tether and Liquidities
But if you look into the actual kind of address count kind of volume in terms of, like, IBC out from kava, it's very minimal. Right. So you can actually think of, like, the kind of outstanding TVL of tether to mostly actually be like, held by, like a few entities. Yeah, basically liquidity, that doesn't really move. It's useless. Yeah. And I mean, again, this is like a metric that we track, right? Like IBC out from Noble. So we always look at, like, the ratio, right? So what is the IBC in versus the IBC out?
IBC Metrics and Observations
Right? So IBC in any time, you know, that USDC goes, again, from anywhere else in crypto that has native USDC. So it's a long list of chains. And then the IBC out, of course, is what leaves noble to go to places where it's useful, like osmosis, UIDX, cosh, et cetera. And so that ratio is typically. I mean, typically it's 95% of the USDC that actually leaves noble. Maybe between 90 and 95%. So, as you can see, most of the USDC leaves noble, whereas on kava, if you kind of look into the metrics, a lot of the tether actually just stays on cava.
Understanding TVL and Volume Dynamics
Yeah, I think this is like, it goes back to that conversation of TVL isn't a useless metric, but it kind of is. Volume is actually much more evident of, like, you know, what actually matters. And the volume on USDC via noble on in the cosmos is like 2050 x, higher if not more than that. Exactly. Yeah. So that I also typically like to look at volume over outstanding TVL myself. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. I love how Haron is bringing some spiciness and actually now you can also watch the volume of IBC not only on mapozone but also on the phyllama.
Encouraging Audience Participation
So that's a very cool metrics that we have now. And I think that especially now with those moses and noble, we saw some of the use cases that an idea upon ABC can have. And I want to remind her, this is really the opportunity now for everyone in the audience to actually bring their idea and participate to a BC idea tone. And you have until the 27 October to submit your idea. So be sure to develop your idea because this is really time where you can receive support for becoming a builder and actually bring your idea to life.
Transitioning to the Solana Ecosystem
So I want to go now to Brianna because we are going now to Solana and the Solana world because Solana is actually coming closer and closer to Cosmos and the broader interchange. And I'm curious to know what is currently the interoperability landscape look like in Solana. Yeah, personally I would say we have a lot of different apps for the interoperability landscape, but there's still a lot to be explored. We currently have a few bridges, there's dbridge and all bridge that are great to look into. Another app to explore for some ideas for the hackathon I would say is Picasso.
Exploring Interoperability in Solana
It's an IBC enabled generalized restaking hub for Solana. So that's like another thing to look into to help get some ideas here. I would say for some work related to GMP, you have like wormhole, which it essentially enables cross chain smart contract cpis to call functions from other on chain contracts. So that's really helpful of a framework if you're looking into some ideas to have like on chain actions that are cross chain between Solana and the Cosmos app chain, and then just to get some ideas on how to build on top of wormhole, you can look into Wormhole's ex app frameworks.
Reflections on User Experience
They work a lot with the Solana interop. And overall, I would just say looking at the user experience for some of these bridges and apps and frameworks and just focus on how we can really enhance the interoperability between Solana and the Cosmos app chains because it's still being explored quite a lot at the moment. So yeah. Awesome. And there is specifically a track for Solana. So if you love Solana, this is your opportunity to actually bring it even more closer to the ABC world.
The Merging Ecosystem of Blockchains
And it's definitely an exciting time because seeing ecosystem merging in this giant Internet of blockchain, it was what was the idea of cosmos. And that idea now is a reality thanks to a lot of contributors and thanks today who is in the audience and as a guest, because they are building those applications that actually showcase the power of IBC. Now actually we are going to dive into the product of each chain.
Akash's Leverage of IBC
And specifically I want to ask to Greg, how Akash is leveraging ABC today and what is the supercloud? I know that you recently have been showcasing here the power of the supercloud, but I'm sure even today there is new audiences that want to know what is actually the super cloud. Yeah. So on your first question, how Akash is leveraging IBC, it's primarily for Dex support. I don't. I mean, and also for payments.
Supercloud and Its Functionality
So Dex support, of course, Akash being on osmosis is probably the biggest volume generators, but we recently started supporting USDC for payments, so the volume is like negligible. But that's one of the corrections that we had to IBC. What I like to see is more deep ends or de events, I suppose, is a new term now that are, that offer various services to complete the cloud. What that means is the term supercloud. Essentially, like the name suggests, it is a cloud that sits on other clouds, creating the super cluster.
Characteristics of the Supercloud
The other clouds could be any cloud capable compute. Could be a compute sitting in a data center, or it could be a compute sitting in a, you know, a nerdy home with a lot of power and good Internet connection. Could be any cloud capable compute that could join this massive supercluster and offer computational resources to tenants that want to consume them. That's what a supercloud really means. But in technicality, what a cache is, it's a decentralized control plane that decouples the control from the resource.
Decentralization and Control
So by separating the control, you can effectively take away control on any single individual cloud provider and give the control back to the user. That's the biggest benefit of using a cache. It makes an application unstoppable. It ensures that the user always has the best possible price, because it makes providers compete to provide user the best price. And that usually tends to be the correct market price.
Benefits to Workloads and Pricing
And it's first time ever we have a fully open source cloud that's only possible using decentralization. Without decentralization, you can have open source software, but you cannot have an open source network. I think that makes the supercloud extremely powerful. Today, the biggest benefit supercloud offers is to workloads that are extremely resource constrained, particularly GPU's. GpU's are the lifeblood for AI and in particularly the high density GPU's nvmix, namely H SDE.
Pricing and Accessibility of GPU Resources
Those are very hard to come by. And if you do get access to them, they're very expensive and usually require you to purchase, make long term commitments that are not ideal for a startup or a mid sized company. Rakash can offer you those resources with significantly more flexible terms, be it on demand compute, meaning you only pay for what you use versus your typical H 100 access would be embodied in a long term contract. You can get on demand compute at prices probably one of the lowest prices available, if not the lowest.
Competitive Pricing Against Major Providers
I mean, right now h 100s are about $1.50, which is compared to Amazon plastic check. Amazon charges for $12 per hour. So, yes, you can get very high quality AI grade, high density GPU's for significantly lower price what you're otherwise pay Amazon. And it matters, especially in AI, because it's very expensive to do AI inference or even training or even fine tuning. And so any cost advantage there helps significantly, especially for a cash strapped.
Competitor Landscape and Trust
That's what I super proud is. So, yeah, Greg, I had a question. I remember a few months ago, I saw like, some competitor drama pop up and like, people are criticizing competitors of like, their, like, fake claims and they were using different GPU's. Can you, can you touch on like, what is the climate? Or what is the state of these competitors with the caution, like, why are they not able to compete? Why is the Kosh better? Basically, like, how do you guys get these, actual products and at these cheaper prices? And why can't they do that?
Success and Criticism of Competitors
Well, so, Kash, you know, it was the first one and had some success last year, and folks are attracted to the success. And you, it is crypto, it's a free market. So people can launch one competitor. I don't want to names, one company, oh, quote unquote competitor. But, you know, one company that launched with the claim that they have four times more a 100s than meta. So metabolic. Four times, right. This was like, how many months ago was this? Like five months ago when this was out and people were like, what is this crazy claim?
The Reality Behind Competitor Claims
Like, like, if you make a claim like this, you have to at least be realistic so people. So it's believable, right? Like, the larger you make the claim, the more people are going to dig into it and then just like, destroy. You of course you mean that's what happened. So there are two major claims that this company made. One claim is that they solved distributed machine learning, which is not solved. So distributed machine learning in the sense.
Training High-Density Clusters
So today to train a large cluster, a large LLM, you're required to have co located high density gpu's with very low latency between them. So you have really mega data centers. If you look at what Elon Musk is building in Memphis or he built in Memphis, which has 100,000 h 100s in a single location, consuming about 50 megawatt capacity data center, you need really large clusters, right, like GPT four was trained on a ten megawatt cluster with I think 25,000 h 125, sorry 100,000 a 100.
The Unfounded Claims of Competitors
So you mean why? Because the latency affects training speeds quite a lot. So this company, this relatively unknown company whose founder happened to be a Kol that was doing, I dont know, crypto in Saudi Arabia or something, and all of a sudden comes here and claims that theyve solved distributed training which brightest minds havent solved yet, and they have four times more gpu's. And the worst part is they got funding, $30 million from one of the top tier vc's too.
Concerns Regarding Funding and Transparency
And obviously, and it's fully closed source and it's, there's no documentation whatsoever, no approach, nothing to prove that. And I had my red flags when I met this founder and it just tells you, I know we have Solana foundation on the call, I mean anatoly is a good friend of mine, but we have a lot of these people that actually funded this just categorically false claim and they got caught and now they only have 6000 gpu's. Apparently we also don't know how true that is because it's fully closed source and I don't know how you can claim something to be decentralized and closed source.
The Consequences of Trust Issues
So that's what happened with the competitor that effectively killed the deep end. Trust I believe, right, because again, crypto is very fast to gain trust, very fast to lose trust. I think that sort of like really slowed down. And I've been talking to a lot of people that this company made promises to in terms of putting their supply onto this network and earning outsize rewards, which is not true. And a lot of these people that invested got lost. And so there's a whole mess that we need to clean up from decent sector and that's what happened.
The Importance of Transparency in Akash
Why is a cash better? But frankly we're just open and transparent, it's open source, so any claim that Akash makes can be verifiable on chain. We don't have millions and thousands of GPUs, we have enough GPUs, but we have lot of utilization for those GPUs. That's what really matters. And most of the GPUs on Akash are high density h 100s, unlike 49 keys or home computers that are not very usable. Until we solve that distributed training problem, which by the way is being solved on Akash by a company called News Research, another company called Prime Intellect who has published papers on arvics. They're very good teams and it's being solved. OpenAI I believe is working on another model too. So why is Akash better from removing all the other fraud and show claims? Akash generally has a general purpose capability. That means you can run anything you run on Amazon on a cache.
Capabilities of Akash Cloud
So you have typically when you're training, you need a vector database, you need storage, you need bandwidth, you need IP addresses, ports open, you need the whole orchestration like in a traditional cloud that most GPU networks that claim to be GPU only don't really offer those capabilities. So they're not very usable. So that's why I fashioned better. There's another competitor who's kind of jumping ranks, but you know, they're fully closed source and they're not launched yet, so we really don't know what's happening there. But they claim to have thousands of GPUs in the documentation, so keep an eye out. It's kind of sad that, you know, we're in this situation wherever outside screens with nothing being verifiable. So knock the door. Yeah. So yes, outside claims that there's nothing, none of it is verifiable.
A Call for Openness and Transparency
So my biggest request to people that are building in the space is be transparent, be open. There are other transparent projects now. I mean in Nasana, which is pretty good, which is building a solana, by the way, very underrated. They don't claim to have all these thousands of GPUs. They do have good amount of GPUs and they're fully open source. So teams like that I think need to be promoted versus teams like I don't want to name these people because last night I had a dinner with one of the investors and we kind of like agreed to not throw shade on the sector because we had rebuild now. But yes, my biggest request will be to build open source, keep it true, keep going to remember why we here building what we're doing. You know, it's not, you know, there are better ways to make money being closed source.
Challenges in Decentralized Development
There's no need to do, you know, to claim that you're decentralized and have a token and all that stuff. There's a lot more. I mean, if you really want to build a product and make money, you can just be fully closed source, do a SaaS, and it's much easier to succeed that way. But if you're truly building decentralized systems, ask yourself why you're doing this. Right? You're not building a SaaS app because you cannot have a SaaS front end and decentralized backend. That's going to work. This is just not going to work. So that's to throw some light on the situation. Awesome. And I have to say thank you, Aaron, for triggering Greg because he brought for one of the most beautiful speech today because I truly think that the direction that Takas is showing is aligned with the ethics of the blockchain space.
Noble's User Experience Focus
And we are definitely proud also as internship foundation that Akash is building with the stack. So thanks a lot for sharing your stuff about this. I want to go now to Yelena because what is fascinating about Noble is actually how is presenting its product to the audience. And one of the definitions that I like that you and your team has been using very often is interchange uX. So what noble means to be interchange Ux? Yeah, I mean, as a lot of people, like both as kind of users of these applications or builders of these app chains can understand that UX is still a big problem, right? Whether that's me kind of interacting with various app genes, or whether that's me, I guess, being a builder of one of the main app chains in the space base.
Solving Friction in Stable Coin Transactions
And so what Noble is trying to do is pretty simple from a, again, from a stable coin perspective, right? You have all of this fragmentation across, you know, many cosmos chains. We're seeing this even more now in the Ethereum space across l two s, l three s, et cetera. What noble always tried to solve for was how do I make it really easy to go between two distinct app chains in as least friction as possible when it comes to using stable coins? So I talked a little bit about that with some of the things we did around things like forwarding and IPC routing and even things like implementing circles bridge as the first non EVM chain to do so. And ultimately, that's what we're looking to do with more stable coins that we issue.
Future of Stable Coins and User Experience
Right. So you can have a situation very soon in the future where, you know, I want to go with stablecoin, you know, a to stable coin b between two distinct chains. Maybe that's DyDX and osmosis. How do I do that at the perfect price with as least kind of ux friction as possible? And that's something that we're looking to kind of solve for, I think, actually. And obviously, we have Aaron here in this space. It's very aligned, I would say, to what Polaris is trying to achieve. Obviously, Polaris is more focused as this kind of general purpose kind of Dex, whereas we're very much singularly focused on stable coins. But again, very straightforward. Right.
Expanding Stable Coin Functionality
I want to take my USDC and swap it for, let's say, euros so I can take that euro and send it to, I don't know, some defi application. I want to be able to do that using noble with, again, the least friction as possible in terms of the UX and also in terms of pricing. So sometimes people have thought of, like Noble as a bridge. We are very much not a bridge because we have our own dedicated app chain to issuing these stable coins and working directly with the issuer. And because, of course, we use existing kind of primitives like IBC, like CCTP. We're also working with the wormhole team right now on a specific kind of workflow that's to be announced for noble as well.
Interchain UX Goals
So, yeah, that's kind of the idea. Right. Interchain ux, it's like, how do I go from point a to point b with one or two assets or more in as least of a friction? In least friction as possible. Yeah, I think the next big unlock for USDC in the Cosmos, and also obviously pertaining to noble, is like all the major centralized exchanges supporting the withdrawals. Now, I know we live in a world where, like defi decentralization hardcore, but, you know, on ramping is still pretty big and users still use centralized exchanges. So historically, Cosmos has been in this uphill battle, but not in kind of in an organic fashion.
The Road Ahead for Stable Coins in Cosmos
What I mean by this is like basically less funding, more building, less institutional backing, but way more tech. And for example, IBC way before its time, still best in class when it comes to bridging technology, but it doesn't get all this crazy funding. Even during the ICO days with Adam, it was capped. As the ICF puts out its reports, these numbers would be probably two, three, x higher if Adam didn't cap it. So, like, you know, the cosmos never had the craziest funding. So when it comes to something like USDC, it took forever to actually get into the cosmos natively. We had to bridge it via Axelar and other bridges, but still the organic growth took place.
Integration of Stable Coins and Market Growth
Same thing with tether. It was there before it was natively here, but again, eventually it made it over. And I think by playing catch up, I don't know if that's the right word. I think by taking the organic route to grow these things and getting these things more on merit versus just paying for them, it shows that cosmos is here forever and IBC is also here forever. But again, like I said, the next unlock for stable coins in cosmos is that major centralized exchange support. And then I think. I think it's just like flourishing even more after that. So this is actually reminding me of a funny story, especially when Yelena mentioned euro because I was having a conversation with toggy, which is also a noble partner, and they basically were mentioning about bringing institution, but especially connecting with the real world, like bank account.
Noble's Euro Wallet and Banking Integration
And literally I said to them, can we expect in the near future that actually IBC bring us directly to our bank account so that maybe we can give directly from osmosis to the back someone from our uncle, etcetera. And literally the next week, Elena announced that we know about the euro wallet and the connection with the Nibon account. So if you want to, like, share a little bit about that and the additional context, feel free to Yelena. Yeah, it's a really exciting unlock, and it's early days for, I think, all of the exciting kind of applications that can be built on top of this very specific workflow for the euro itself.
The Role of Monarium in Euro Transactions
So I guess for those that are not familiar, we announced a few weeks ago that we're working with a project called Monarium to issue the Euro C on Noble. So the Euro C right now is available on Gnosis, Polygon and Ethereum, I think. And the last I checked, which was a few weeks ago, by volume, so not outstanding amounts, but by transaction volume, it is the most widely adopted euro stablecoin out there. So it's interesting. In terms of transaction volume, it's, I think, gone above 2 billion. In terms of outstanding volume, it's quite low because it's actually being used in the real world by, you know, being withdrawn to bank accounts.
Integration of KYC and Withdrawal Processes
And so how does that work exactly? So Monarium is a very. They're a very awesome team. They're based in Iceland, actually, and they have their own bank. And what they've done through many years of, you know, seeking approvals from certain regulators in the European Union. They've created a system where you can actually, after you've onboarded with Monarium. So there's an element of Kycing, which is actually very easy to do. Unlike it is with circle, where Kycing and being able to mint USDC is only reserved for businesses. So retail can onboard with Minarium.
Creating Bank Accounts and Wallet Integration
They can pass KYC and they can actually connect. Sorry. Generate an Ibon bank account. So this is the standard for banking accounts in the European Union. And actually, even beyond. And from that I bond account, you can actually generate an on-chain wallet address. So in this case, you can generate a noble address with your I bond and directly mint the euro on your noble address. So you can obviously take that euro on your noble address, put it into a self custodial wallet, use it in various kind of Defi applications, kind of on-chain applications.
Direct Withdrawal to Bank Accounts
And then, of course, if you want to withdraw that for actual kind of, I guess, euro fiat currency, you can do so with your I bond. And so you can directly withdraw to your I bond. And now you have that euro currency directly. Yeah. In your bank account. So in the sense, your noble address, your noble wallet becomes your bank account, where you can do a whole bunch of things that you wouldn't be able to do if you obviously just had that euro sitting in your ivan, like in a regular bank in somewhere in Europe.
Future of Noble and Application Development
Right. So it's very exciting. And in terms of noble, sort of forward-looking vision in our kind of what I'm calling, you know, the second phase of noble. So it's actually starting to build those applications on top of noble itself. Right. So you can imagine a payments application where, again, it's really easy to go between the dollar and the euro. I mean, that's a huge market. There was a stablecoin report put out by Visa a few weeks ago, and they actually kind of showed.
Market Demand for Stablecoins
In terms of currency markets, like, in the real world, of course, the dollar is like the most in demand, but the euro and the yen, they're close second and thirds. Although those currencies in the real world are obviously very useful, they're not really represented on-chain in a straightforward way through stable coins, through the stablecoin kind of infrastructure that's being built out. So, yeah, Noble is very much at the kind of cutting edge of a lot of these developments because we work directly with the issuer. We understand.
Workflow for Euro Stablecoin and Future Use Cases
Okay. Monarium kind of has this very unique workflow established for their euro stablecoin. The euro C. Okay, how does noble actually now develop applications and of course, the actual ux for these stable coins such that, of course, I can take my euro stablecoin to any chain roll up, et cetera, connected to noble, but I can actually start using those coins on noble itself in a very useful way that maybe I haven't been able to find elsewhere. Kind of in the crypto ecosystem, the base ecosystem, they're doing a lot of things around this.
Making Stable Coins Useful
Right, like really making stable coins useful. Right. Things like lending, borrowing, payments, you know, et cetera. Noble is kind of one of very few handful of protocols that are actually making a huge push towards, again, making these stable coins very useful. So, yeah, I talked a little bit about the euro stablecoin and how that works on Noble with Monarium and the fact that you can withdraw it directly to any Ibon account. But forward-looking, yeah, there's a lot of exciting things that we're doing from an application, from a user-facing perspective on noble itself in terms of, yeah, making these stable coins just more useful to everyday people.
Conclusion and Future Prospects
Awesome. Very cool. And thanks for accelerating the future because with Togy, we discussed that this could be a scenario in ten years. So that's actually one week. So I would say pretty good achievement. I want to ask Aaron because Yelena just mentioned Polaris. So basically, osmosis recently announced Polaris, and of course, this is something that is a new vision for osmosis. So feel free to introduce what does it mean launching Polaris and what kind of vision it brings.
Introduction to Polaris
Yeah, so the name of the game for Polaris is essentially the. The best ux that you really don't even know you need right now because you're so used to the shitty ux across the entire defi industry. And what I mean by shitty is not that each individual app is shitty, it's that the cohesive like experience across all of DeFi is kind of shit because you're bridging across three different ecosystems. You have to trade seven different times, and any individual swap that is, you know, beyond two orders of magnitude, like, of complexity, is just annoying as hell to transact in.
Polaris as a Token Portal
So basically, Polaris does this all for you. It abstracts it all away, makes your life better. So we call it the token portal. Basically, it's like this portal that can access any token from any ecosystem of your choice and also make sure that you get the best pricing. And also, this should be eventually flexible so that if you want it faster, maybe you pay a little more for it. If you don't care about the speed, then you can get the best pricing for it.
Asset Diversity in Different Ecosystems
And there are different assets. There are same assets, but on different ecosystems. For example, if you want to get something from native bitcoin network, and this is bitcoin, of course. Or what if you're okay with just having your bitcoin in the cosmos, or on Solana, or on avalanche or ethereum? Do you care if it's wrapped bitcoin or are you okay with a different derivative of it? And all these things are things that you'll be able to choose from as well.
Real-World Examples of Ecosystem Interoperability
So the idea to kind of touch on what the problem was and tying it to, like, a real world example would be think. Think of like, in the credit card world. In the US, there's this huge credit card game. Not gaming, but this ecosystem of gaming credit cards, where basically you maximize points across different credit cards. So you might have ten different credit card companies. They offer you different perks. Some of them offer you straight cashback, some of them offer you lounge benefits. Some of them will offer you airline points, discounts at certain venues. And the thing is, none of these are interoperable with each other.
Challenges in Maximizing Credit Card Benefits
Unless you take one of those super tedious and annoying routes of spreadsheets and going through communities and trading things, then you're working on super high slippage on points that you may have earned with a certain credit card. But basically, there's. There's no way to have all these. Bundle them into a single app, and then you can use your lounge with a different credit card. Maybe because you're trading someone else. So like, maybe. Maybe someone has the Amex card and you want the Centurion lounge, but you don't have that Amex card, but you have the Capital one Venture X.
Gaming Ecosystem and Points Exchange
What you can do is you have this app and you're easily trading access for this Centurion lounge. Now, this is more like a real world example of, like, what players would be doing for you. Or even in, let's say, like, the video gaming world. There are three major consoles. Well, four. Let's take PC, Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo. And each of them has different points systems. Like you can have your Xbox points. Or on PC, you maybe have like, steam points, and you can't really trade these easily.
Unique Challenges in Gaming Economies
And then going further in hundreds of different video games, on Fortnite, you have v bucks. In Elden ring you have, like, souls. In World of Warcraft, you have gold. None of these are tradable with each other, but every gamer would love the ability to be able to trade their assets in a video game like World of Warcraft to go buy something in Fortnite or Call of Duty and vice versa. So basically, Polaris connects all these, even though all these ecosystems aren't inherently, like, you know, supporting this, it doesn't matter because it's decentralized.
Overcoming Centralized Barriers
The only difference here is that in the real world, a lot of these things are centralized and they are going to block you no matter what, because they don't want to let go of the grips on their ecosystem. They don't want to let go of that money that they are keeping within their ecosystem. Polaris connects all these, removes those barriers, and ensures that these, like, walled gardens of ecosystems can just be abstracted away.
Polaris and Integration within the Ecosystem
So when you made the gamer example, you got my son up to the early access to Polaris, because if no one is aware right now, Polaris is making an early access campaign. So make sure to follow also the Polaris account to stay updated on the latest. And speaking about Polaris, I actually think that Polaris, one of the things that we'll do is also integrate more Solana in the broader ecosystem. So, Brianna, what is the vision and currently the main mission for Solana?
Mission and Vision for Solana
Because our audience is mainly, primarily focused on the. On the interchange and the cosmos ecosystem. So maybe you can bring a bit of that knowledge of Solana here. And especially, do you have also, as a follow up question, any recommendation for our idea hackers on the Solana track? Yeah, definitely. So, first, with Solana's mission, Solana, it's a decentralized blockchain, and it's built to enable just scale and user friendly apps for the world.
Potential Use Cases for Hackathon
The infrastructure, it's fundamentally to change the digital world. And the Solana's foundation mission is to help facilitate this. Now, for use cases for the hackathon. I would say when thinking about ideas for the hackathon, you really want to think about what's the main goal of Interop and web three. In my opinion, it's creating a really good ux to enable more apps to be built for users.
Specific Examples for Hackathon Submissions
A few things that I could think of as use cases here would be a protocol specific adapter, smart contracts on Solana that can decode and execute transactions based on the IBC data that comes in. That would just help further enable interop between the Cosmos app chains and Solana, and help kind of from the dev side of things. And then another example would be. Like.
Exploring Cross Chain Applications
You could do cross chain oracles and cross chain KyC that would enable specific real world assets to exist in cross chain defi platforms. So really just taking a step back and thinking how can we really optimize this for the user and make the UX the best way possible? And you can go back to some of the app examples that I mentioned earlier, like Picasso or DBridge or Altbridge, and look at the current user experience there and see how that interaction really is between Cosmos app chains and Solana, and kind of see what's missing from a user perspective and think about ideas there and then.
Working with IBC Design
Another potential idea is working directly with the IBC design. IBC, it's an open source repo. Anyone can make a pr to it. So you could think of the IBC design to enable the adoption of Solana's runtime. So you could develop a module on Solana that can kind of interpret and validate IBC messages. And that would really help just advance more apps to be used, like cross chain in web three.
Final Thoughts on Hackathon Submission Ideas
So, yeah, I would say that's kind of a few use cases and, yeah, that's everything. Oh, that's great. And thank you for sharing this use cases, because now ideas knows what they can submit for the Solana track. So if you're excited about Solana now, you have more context on what you can bring as ideas.
Encouragement for Idea Hackers
And remember that this is an idea. You don't have to bring a lot of technicalities. There is the idea builder that in the IBC idea tone, that will allow you to actually compose your idea. So literally very few technicality to make sure that your idea comes to life. And I want to reiterate, like, you don't need to be sure about your idea.
The Nature of Ideas
Like, that's the beautiful part of an idea. An idea doesn't mean you don't have to know right now that it's possible. You just need to bring your idea and make sure that you really believe it in it. And please feel free to submit. Now I will go to Jelena because I really want to know, because the discussion showcases really a lot of the capabilities between Noble and ABC. So really want to know.
Exploring Noble and ABC
And if you can share some of the ideas that the ideas can submit related to Noble and ABC, and if you have any recommendation. Sorry, this is for the hackers. For the hackathon? Yep. Yeah, sure. I mean, again, like, we're very interested in real world use cases.
Encouragement for Practical Applications
I know this has become a little bit of a meme in crypto, and I really don't want kind of the hackers participating in the IBC hackathon to feel kind of disillusioned with the lack of real world applications for blockchains and for cryptocurrencies. So I would really just encourage the hackers to think about the end user and kind of pain points that exist for real people.
Mobile Applications for Payment Solutions
So, you know, still, payments are really hard on chain. There's a really cool app called Pay P a y Y that I would encourage folks to kind of reach out to look at. It's a mobile first payments application. I think it's built on Polygon, I'm not exactly sure, but it's, yeah, mobile first private stablecoin payments application.
Optimizing User Experience in Payments
So things like this, like mobile first payments, I would encourage people to kind of take a look at if you can kind of build something, of course, that uses IPC under the hood such that I can, you know, easily, let's say, swap my osmo for, let's say, USDC on some sort of mobile first payments application such that I can, you know, pay for my coffee in like, you know, a few seconds at the coffee shop. I think that would be really cool.
Addressing Wallet and UX Improvements
You know, things like, yeah, payments I would say, is a big one. And really anything that allows me, I guess, as an end user, to obviously take a, you know, kind of holistic view over kind of my kind of holdings of various, like, tokens across various chains, IBC connected chains, and again, use some sort of front end or some sort of application to kind of manage those assets, I think is always still something that's needed. I think wallets can always be improved.
Enhancements to Wallet User Experience
Wallet Ux can always be improved. Yeah. So things like this, really just like user facing applications, improvements on wallets, payments. Yeah, things like this. Awesome. And I'm really looking forward to see if these ideas arrive and actually will have some solid substance to win some of the prizes.
Exploring Chain Abstraction
Also, I want to go to Aaron because one of the tracks is chain abstraction. And I have to say, in this ecosystem, there are a lot of projects right now working on chain abstraction. There is the abstract SDK team, there is the agoric team, there is Xion that also is built with Cosmos SDK. So chain abstraction is definitely a, in this ecosystem, but also osmosis recently integrated smart accounts.
Communicating the Significance of Smart Accounts
So can you definitely have the experience to share some of the context for this track? And if you have any suggestion, if you want to share more about the launch of smart accounts. Yeah. So first of all, I'd like to let everyone know I am likely the least technical person on the osmosis side.
Benefits of Smart Accounts
But with that said, smart accounts basically brings things like automation, one click trading, multi key, multi device support. If you want your account easily accessible from five different devices, makes it ten times easier, which also, of course, makes onboarding easier. And there's the feature to have recovery baked in. That's something you can opt into so you don't have to do it. We're nothing like Ledger and that controversy here and then.
Integrating Ecosystem with Smart Accounts
So, like, how does this tie in with abstraction? What do we want? So basically, what if you could do everything with smart accounts, but you can tie that into other ecosystems. So I think that would be probably the next big unlock. And obviously, like, Polaris does do some of this, but we are one team, so there's a limit to how fast we can build and how much we can build.
Future Directions with Smart Accounts
And I think I basically tying anything in with smart accounts, chain abstraction and polaris is where the ideas should go right now. Make things easier for trading or onboarding or even potentially baking in actual apps. What if you could one click trade straight into some kind of lending protocol or perps from another chain? I think that would be really cool. And using this all on smart accounts.
Emphasizing the Importance of Chain Abstraction
Awesome. Let's bring more chain abstraction in the ecosystem. And of course, I'm not joking. Like, I'm serious. I think this is one of the use cases that is very popular. So if you're excited about chain abstraction, this is the track where you need to go.
Advice from Greg on Bringing Ideas to Life
Now, lastly, I want to go to Greg because Greg has a founder, has experienced in bringing a crazy idea to life. Because let me tell you, this super cloud was a crazy idea, but Greg is proving everything wrong, so that everyone is wrong. Sorry. So actually, Greg, can you share, like, to the listeners here today, what does it mean to bring to life an idea that actually needs to be proven?
Lessons Learned from a Decade of Experience
And if you have any suggestion to share today with our audience. I've been working on Akash and the company behind Akash for about ten years. Right. So again, I did not realize when I started this journey ten years ago that it's going to take this long. So I think the best advice is to set the expectations straight. It is a long journey to get to anywhere.
Commitment is Key for Success
I mean, there are cases people have success in the first year, second year, I think most of them don't. So I guess prepare yourself to make the commitment. If not, it's probably not worth pursuing down the line. If you're going for a moonshot, well, rebuilding the cloud, that's a moonshot. Putting satellites in space, that's a moonshot.
Recognizing Challenges in Idea Validation
There are lots of moonshot problems that we can still work on, but just be prepared for the commitment that you're willing to make. Or, you know, there are other ideas that I guess just doing something because you want to do something is generally doesn't result in a good outcome. And the worst part is when you do something, just because you have to do something and you get some basic validation, and that validation turns out to be to, turns out to reinforce your biases on the validity of an idea.
Pragmatic Approach to Ideas
That's the worst case scenario. The what I like is in scenarios like that is just be a hacker and be as pragmatic as possible instead of trying to build products that are, you know, that you believe is going to get large, just have a smaller sort of like goal and just go towards a goal with a full speed. So ideas that I worked on with that mode always worked out great ideas that are moonshots requires commitment and without which there is no success.
Final Thoughts on Commitment and Innovation
That's. That's the only advice I would give. I would say this is great for ending to this piece because this really shows that idea are very powerful, but you really need to put some commitment to bring it to life. So really don't be lazy because now there is a concrete opportunity for everyone in the space to go clicking now on the IBC account on my site and start to discover this opportunity because you can win five prizes.
Encouragement to Participate in the Hackathon
So you really need to be on that five ideas and you will receive support to bringing this idea to life. So please feel free to do it. And I want to thanks again all the guests today, because I think this was a super valuable space and you are really contributing not only with the project to this ecosystem, but also with your stuff and your ideas as well. Thank you so much.
Conclusion
This is fun.
