Exposing corruption and bad governance// With Bonnie Mwangi

Space Summary

The Twitter Space Exposing corruption and bad governance// With Bonnie Mwangi hosted by HillaryGondi. In this Twitter space, Bonnie Mwangi led a dynamic discussion on combating corruption and improving governance through activism, mental health awareness, mentorship, and Pan-African leadership. The conversation delved into the critical role of community involvement, transparency, and empowerment in fostering ethical leadership and driving positive change. Key takeaways emphasized the importance of unity, accountability, and grassroots efforts in fighting corruption. The session highlighted the value of mentorship, support networks, and proactive measures in building a culture of integrity and resilience. Overall, the space underscored the collective responsibility in addressing systemic challenges and promoting a future rooted in ethical governance and empowerment.

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Questions

Q: How can activism contribute to combating corruption and promoting good governance?
A: Activism raises awareness, demands accountability, and mobilizes support for reform.

Q: Why is men's mental health important in the broader conversation about governance and leadership?
A: Mental health impacts decision-making, resilience, and overall well-being, crucial for effective leadership.

Q: What role does mentorship play in shaping individuals as effective leaders and community members?
A: Mentorship provides guidance, support, and wisdom, nurturing future leaders and fostering growth.

Q: In what ways does Pan-Africanism inspire change and unity in combating corruption?
A: Pan-Africanism promotes solidarity, cooperation, and a collective vision for progress and equality.

Q: How can communities engage in grassroots efforts to hold leaders accountable?
A: Communities can organize, advocate, and monitor governance, ensuring transparency and ethical conduct.

Q: What are some key pillars for building ethical leadership and governance?
A: Transparency, accountability, integrity, and public participation are essential for ethical leadership and governance.

Q: Why is empowerment crucial in the fight against corruption and bad governance?
A: Empowered individuals can resist corruption, demand accountability, and drive positive change.

Q: How can proactive measures prevent corruption and promote ethical leadership?
A: Proactive measures like policies, education, and awareness campaigns create a culture of integrity and accountability.

Q: What benefits can mentorship and support networks bring to personal and professional growth?
A: Mentorship fosters learning, skill development, network expansion, and emotional support for growth and success.

Q: Why is unity within the Pan-African community vital for addressing complex challenges?
A: Unity strengthens advocacy, amplifies voices, and enhances collective efforts to address systemic issues and drive progress.

Highlights

Time: 00:05:15
Activism in Action: Fighting Corruption Discussion on the impact of activism in challenging corruption and advocating for good governance.

Time: 00:11:32
Men's Mental Health Advocacy Exploring the importance of mental health awareness, especially in the context of men's well-being and leadership.

Time: 00:18:47
Mentorship for Growth and Success Insights on the value of mentorship in guiding individuals towards personal and professional development.

Time: 00:24:09
Pan-African Unity for Progress Highlighting the role of Pan-Africanism in fostering unity to address social challenges and drive positive change.

Time: 00:30:16
Community Engagement Against Corruption Strategies for community involvement and grassroots movements to combat corruption and promote transparency.

Time: 00:36:45
Ethical Leadership and Accountability Importance of integrity, accountability, and public participation in building ethical governance structures.

Time: 00:42:22
Empowerment Against Corruption Empowering individuals to resist corruption, demand transparency, and uphold ethical standards.

Time: 00:48:59
Proactive Measures for Governance Integrity Discussion on implementing proactive measures to prevent corruption and ensure ethical leadership.

Time: 00:55:30
Mentorship and Support Networks Benefits of mentorship programs and support networks in fostering personal and professional growth.

Time: 01:02:14
Pan-African Solidarity in Action Encouraging unity within the Pan-African community to address systemic challenges and promote progress.

Key Takeaways

• Exploring the importance of activism in combatting corruption and challenging bad governance.
• Addressing the significance of mental health awareness, particularly in the context of men's mental health.
• Emphasizing the role of mentorship in personal and professional development.
• Highlighting the impact of Pan-Africanism and community leadership in driving positive change.
• Discussing strategies for grassroots movements and community involvement to combat corruption.
• Recognizing the importance of transparency and accountability in governance.
• Advocating for the empowerment of individuals to stand against corruption and promote good governance.
• Encouraging proactive measures to create a culture of integrity and ethical leadership.
• Promoting the value of mentorship and support networks in fostering growth and success.
• Urging unity in the Pan-African community to address systemic issues and promote progress.

Behind the Mic

Opening Remarks

I'm good, man. How are you doing? Okay. Do the reopen. Maribaksa. They look Bonnie. Teneva. Okay, we'll do shortly. All right. Hilary, over to you. I'm good. How are you? All good? All good, thank you. Hello, everyone. You can hear me, Hillary? Yes, I can hear very well. Hello, everyone, and welcome to pressure point. I will be co-hosting with Hillary. We are excited to have you all on board. I will be having a few guest speakers and then we will open the mic for the questions and comment afterwards. For those who don't get the chance to speak or get the mic, please share your question comments on the chat. I'll be sampling some of them, integrating them into our discussion. I think as we navigate through these challenging times, I think corruption has been very rampant in our society.

Discussion of Corruption

And this is the topic of discussion today is about exposing corruption and bad governance is a critical step toward achieving accountability, fostering reforms where some of our corruption and failed projects in Kenya, with focus on the misuse of public funds, inflated costs, lack of transparency, these are examples that can guide us to our conversation in this piece, while highlighting the urgent need for reforms, I would say welcome on board and over to you, Hillary. Hillary. Yes. Abdi. Thank you so much for the open remarks. We want to welcome everybody and now we start our conversation this afternoon. Abdi will be running the show as I assist him today. Thank you so much, guys, for coming and really appreciate you every time that you come to our spaces. Abdi Bhakti, I see Geoffrey is here with us. I look born immediately and senator. Okay, so as we wait for the guest speakers, the senator and Bonnie, I think our nation is really grappling with significant governance challenges that needs reforms and accountability is more urgent than ever before.

Consequences of Corruption

Corruption has not only eroded public trust in our institutions, but it has also crippled our economy, undermined essential services delivery, deepened inequality across the country. I think exposing corruption and bad governance is not just a moral obligation, but a call for urgent reforms to ensure accountability across all levels of government. Recently, I think you have seen bony expose and shed light on shocking levels of corruption. I think Bonnie will be here shortly. He exposed shocking levels of corruption and mismanagement within our counties. At the national level, he is detailed and as he says, supported by hard facts and figures underscores the urgent need for systemic change. To grab the full extent of this route, I'll encourage you to follow and Bonnie will talk to us about it. Anyway. For now, as we wait for our guest speakers, I think I'll open the floor to take your questions. Thank you. Over to you, Grace.

Addressing and Combating Corruption

Okay, I will start by saying hi to everybody that is here. I think we've been really talking about these issues to do with corruption. And also we've come to our conclusion that they should be dealt with immediate effect. Like if you see somebody embezzling public funds and there is no action that is taken, those people are not taken to court, they are not returning our money. It's an alarm that I think the public right now is very concerned with. So I'll just urge that we, I'll just request that you tell us on the proper measures that we can come up with because we've talked about the issue, but we need now action. What can we do so that we may be able to bring these people to book? And also, how can we make these people return our money? Because the most important thing is we need the money that was stolen back. I think that is my burning question.

Continuing the Conversation

And also I will just ask for clarification from anybody that is here that can tell me. We were having Tisatisa tomorrow. Why is the hashtag dying? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Grace, for your question comment. Thank you. We'll get back to you. Over to you, doctor Milton. Doctor Milton. Hello, good evening. How are you? Everyone in the space. Go ahead, we can hear you. I want to make a contribution towards this issue of corruption and governance. Part governance. And maybe my suggestion will be if we can start hashtag on how we can all come in and propose ways of exposing these corrupt public officials in our government. When I read today's news, there is very disturbing news today about the governor of Machakos county in the UK.

Collective Approach to Exposure

They have been arrested together with their son. If we can come together as citizens of goodwill, expose these corrupt public officials, start with the hashtag. We know their properties, we know where they keep their money. Because there must be somebody who knew that the governor had money, went abroad, used our taxpayers money. He passed through the airport, Chomokinata International Airport, with all the cash, all the way to the UK. Mwenga, we lost you. Can you hear us? Network is maybe part of my side. Sorry, I. So what I am proposing is that if we can start a hashtag so that we can expose. We know these people, we know their deals. It is upon us to see we are in a very corrupt, to see that we reduce our corruption in our country. We need a country where there is no corruption. Let us start hashtag. Thank you.

Engaging the Audience

Thank you. Thank you. Can you please mute your mic? Joffrey, can you meet your mic? Thank you. I think that is, you can hear me, Hillary, I think the point you raised is very important. I think corruption in Kenya is deeply rooted issue that predates any single administration, including the current administration. While I think it's true that corruption remains a significant challenge under Ruto leadership, it's also essential to recognize this problem has persisted across multiple governments in decades. I think with this administration, it must be held accountable for any corrupt practices and should be transparent in its effort to combat corruption. However, attributing all corruptions is not only to this administration also. It's also something that has started with previous administrations. And I think this is where we all need to follow through to get all these proceeds of crimes from all these previous administrations.

Call for Action

Anyway, thank you for your comment. I'll give the opportunity to something Amec, please go ahead and give us your submission. Thank you. Hi, Abri. Hi, everyone. Corruption in Kenya is very vaccine and to a higher degree, I think citizens for citizens have been very tolerant. We go through things in government offices, we go through things on the roads, but we've not had that collective will to fight this corruption. And going forward, my suggestion would be we do targeted fights. So we make an example of maybe a department, a government department, say, like if we take the issue of passport control, the immigration, those guys take money every day. If you apply for passport, you will wait for over a year or two years.

Immediate Action on Corruption

But if you are willing to part with, say, ten k, you'll get your passport even delivered to you wherever you are, within three days. So if as a populace, we decide that we are going to make sure that we deal with a particular department, like this one is an easy pick, we just go pick it there. At that new house, they'll feel the heat. But the guys we are dealing with are so shameless that even if you see what morale has been doing is being showing as very bad things, but they don't seem to care. They know after a few days these guys will forget. And we actually do forget. We move to the next thing. Because in Kenya every day something crazy happens. So they are banking on that. But if were to be targeted and we just choose, like I would really want immigration, it looks like a low lying fruit.

Constructive Engagement

We pick it there, that Kenyatta Avenue, we pick it there every day. They move things. And if one department says that these. Guys are serious with this fight, maybe slowly, by slowly, it will take us years. This is not a war we are going to win. Within a couple of months. It will take us years, but we surely will be making positive. So that’s basically my. That would be my approach. We take a targeted approach, deal with that particular department so much that we root it out and some other departments might take you and follow through. Thank you. Thank you.

Inviting Doctor Milton

Thank you for your comment. I'll invite one of our guest speakers, Doctor Milton. Doctor Milton, do you want to go and introduce and say something before I. I hand over the mic to the rest? Thank you, Abdi. Thank you, everybody that has joined the space. I first want to remain consistent in paying tribute to our fallen comrades who paid the ultimate price as we began this movement. Some of us have been in need for much longer, staying the pressure on specific areas. And those of you who are familiar with what we are doing. We have been calling for better governance and greater accountability in the football Kenya Federation and the sports sector as a whole.

Achieving Progress

It's taken time, but it's beginning to bear fruit. And we have seen specific outcomes, but we are not there yet. We have also been able to get key gains, and this is through the Kenya diaspora Alliance USA, where we, you know, as a lobby group and as an advocacy group, we fought for Kenyans in the diaspora to get the right to vote in the 2022 elections. And, I mean, those are some of the things that we keep doing. And therefore, this effort now needs to get to a level where we can hold this government accountable. And what I mean by this government, a few people have come out to say that Ruto is doing his job, paying the price for the previous governments.

Accountability for All

And we are saying there is always a time for everybody to be held accountable. And Ruto, we are holding him accountable for what he has done with his government. So let me begin by saying this, number one, like one of the previous speakers has said, the Kenyan people, and I think I spoke about this last week, Kenyans who give bribes for services from government. And the people who are part of the graft and part of the corruption, one way or the other, are not victims, they are accomplices. What we are saying and what the spirit should be is that we have no time for corruption in our country, whatever the level. I said last week, all we need to do is why are we being blackmailed into sending our children to school?

Impact on Education and Society

Just because we feel the children are supposed to be in school, yet the teachers are complaining, yet the CBC system is not working. That is how we are abetting corruption. So the children are being told, for your children to be enrolled in school, you must pay the subscribe to the new house, new health care plan. Do we agree with this? No, we don't. So the question should be then we are not going to sign up our children for school. That is how you bring accountability and expose the corruption in the government. This morning I've just been reading about how Ruto directly is benefiting from the affordable housing scheme. I'm told he has proxy companies and shell companies that are supplying the materials for the affordable housing.

Health Care Crisis

His insurance company, Amako, is the one that is now managing the new healthcare scheme. The same company is the one that is benefiting from the police insurance keep for healthcare. I'm told western hotel is getting, I don't know, 70% of all hospitality tenders from government. That is something that Kenyans should not be okay with. We must be able to say okay. Wavinyande is being. Being ostracized left, right, center. Why are we not doing the same? So to expose this corruption, we must be able to say no. That even when I need a service from government and I am not getting it because somebody wants to be corrupt, wants me to be desperate and pay the money, we must be able to say no.

The Collective Responsibility

We must be able to get our anger levels to the higher so that our people can get out and occupy these places. Because the moment you give that 3000 shillings to get your id first truck, you are a part of the corruption. You must be able to stand up and say no. So if we have ten people, 20 people at the chiefs office level, at the police station level where you're going to report a matter and you're. You're being taken round and round in circles and ten of you are able to stand up and say no. That is how we expose corruption. That is how we are going to fight. But I want to end this opening statement by saying that we have also created platforms for our people to be able to share the information.

Information Sharing and Transparency

And I want to give one of them. I am available. Come out to my dm. I have created a news website where we expose this. I have a team on the ground that will be able to come to where you are. As long as you are telling us this is where the corruption is happening, we will dispatch our media crew to come down to the ground and we will cover that. And we are not afraid. We have been sued a million times, our website has been hacked a million times, but we still continue to do so. So you can be able to send us that information in confidence and you can be sure that we will publish that information that you have on Kurunzi news because that is a platform that we have created to put a spotlight on corruption.

Call to Action

If you have information about the tenders, if you have information about collected, if you have information about projects that are stalled and they are not being talked about, just come to my dm, go to editorews.com and you tell us and we will be able to dispatch our crew and we will highlight whatever it is that is not working, whatever it is that is broken. That is how we can expose corruption. We don't reveal where the source of our information is and we are saying we will continue. It is not about exclusivity, it is about working for the people. So in addition to speaking in this space, in addition to being invited to speak, we are also creating the platforms and broadcast systems that can be able to expose this corruption.

The Road Ahead

If you have information, please bring it up and I can assure you we will articulate it. And in the course of this month, we are beginning serious podcasts and, you know, on TikTok, on YouTube and everything where we can be able to process this information. And beyond that, I am also available to go to court. As long as we have the evidence available to us, we will go to court. We will use the access to information act and other statutory instruments that are available to citizens to move the courts and move even the ESCC and apply the constitution in private capacity, citizens to institute private prosecutions by the citizens to prosecute some of these people.

Empowering Citizens

Because where the DPP is complicit or is unable to move, the citizens have a right to move. Like we have done with the case of Football Kenya Federation and we got Nick Mundua, although this government has given him the freedom. But we are saying citizens have the capacity to move the courts in their own right and say this is corruption and we want these people prosecuted. We have all those options available and the opportunity is there. So just give us the information. If you fear, if you are not able to come out and I mean send it to me, we will be able to prosecute it, we will be able to move the courts, we will be able to highlight it and publish it for the benefit of our people and the greater good of our country.

Next Steps

I want to land at that point so that I allow people to bring in their comments and their questions so that we can be able to deal with them. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Doctor Milton always for the powerful presentation and thanks again. I think just to add on to that, I think we as a nation, we are in a critical juncture. I think the state of our nation is deeply troubling. It is imperative that we confront these challenges head on, as you said, and with courage and determination as we, the people. I think one of the things you can look at is our economy is in a dire state. The cost of living continues to soar, making it increasingly difficult for ordinary Kenyans to make ends meet.

Urgency for Reform

Unemployment rates have been high. Many families are struggling to put food on the table. The need for robust economic reforms and good governance. An end to corruption is more urgent than ever before. Having said that, I will yield the mic to Lady Germany to put her presentation. We will be having here. Lady Germany, over to you. Lady Germany, you can hear me? Hi, Abhi. Yes, we can hear you. Go ahead. Thank you. Good morning once again. Good morning, good afternoon. Good evening from wherever you're listening from. Thank you very much for the invitation to join the space. Unfortunately, I am quite distracted so therefore cannot co-host. But I would love to thank you all for consistency.

Implications of Corruption

Okay, now let's get to corruption. Hi, Abhi. Hi, Hilary. Hi, doctor Milton. Nice to see all of you and everyone in the space. Now I would like to talk about the implications of corruption because we are observing a very worrying trend in Kenya. And if it continues like that, people will not be able to, and right now even aren't able to, are capable to access basic, human, basic needs, basic services the government has to perform. That is what the leaders are elected for. But if they're not held accountable, and that is why I'm very grateful for this space, then the services will deteriorate.

Quality of Infrastructure

Now, let me just mention a few things. First. When you look at infrastructure, there is substandard quality and inflated costs. I don't personally understand why people have to pay for the expressway when it was paid for by Mamangina Kenyatta. I don't understand that. Why do people who don't use that road have to pay for it? It is all included in your taxes. I don't know how many people know that. It's not only those who use the expressway who have to pay this poll, but they have to everyone, all of you are contributing with your taxes. Especially if you work for the government. They're directed directly to the regime. They're deducted from your salaries.

Consequences of Corruption

I don't know why these salaries are just being paid. I mean, the taxes are just being paid without people questioning. So corruption often results in poor quality infrastructure due to the use of inferior materials and construction practices. Additionally, project costs are frequently inflated as funds are diverted through corrupt means, and then also their project delays. Corruption, as we observe in Kenya, leads to significant delays infrastructure projects, with funds being misappropriated or diverted, causing projects to remain complete or abandoned. So we can see this wave of projects that have been left stalling. And I'm just very worried, because this land can actually be allocated to those who are in slums.

Healthcare Concerns

Hence securing food security or food sovereignty, or both of them, because there's a difference. But we see many people being driven into slums. Increasingly, we see high rise buildings, which are actually vertical slums. When leaders who are corrupt get into government, the first thing they do in Kenya is to erect vertical slums. Everyone is building. And then you see so many of these projects also stalling, even their own projects, because they think power is infinite, but power is finite. So they have to understand that once people start coming for them, and we will come for them, you know, from Europe, the United States, and also Kenya, we will play ping pong with these leaders.

Impact on Healthcare Services

Those projects will definitely be seen seized and the money allocated to the citizens rightfully. There's also the issue of healthcare, which is very worrying to me, a worrisome issue. So there is, as we observe, limited access and very poor services. So corruption, what it does is in healthcare, it leads to the misallocation of resources, resulting inadequate medical supplies, poorly maintained facilities, and a lack of essential services. The costs are also higher. So patients face increased costs for medical services due to bribery and other corruption practices, making healthcare inaccessible to the general population.

Healthcare Inequities

That's a very big issue because it's not only about. It's not only about the inaccessibility of healthcare systems like blackouts in Kenya. We should remember that whenever there is a blackout, patients lose their lives. So it is not a laughing issue. When KPLC government parastatols must perform, they must be held to account. They cannot fail. You cannot be a monopoly. And patients are dying every time. Electricity. There's a blackout in Kenya, children are dying. Newborn babies need incubators. Some of them those who are born prematurely. The incubators cannot work. So you can imagine the high number of unrecorded deaths that are happening.

Education and Healthcare Systems

If you go to the hospitals, patients are sleeping on the floor. And I'm talking of someone who, whenever I go to Kenya, I always go to the hospitals first. Patients are lying on the floor. Patients are being ignored by doctors, being forced to, you know, the women performing sexual acts in order to receive medical attention. The men are just simply ignored. And why is it that when patients pass away, somebody who, for instance, has suffered from cancer, that the family has to pay 30 million going on. Why is it that when a patient loses their lives, that the family still bears the burden of footing that bill? We have to question, you know, the thing is, the way the systems work in Germany, the politicians are held accountable.

Historical Context

They are not celebrated. In fact, they fear that position very much because you will meet somebody like Angela Michaels. I'm going to post a video to this degree. You meet someone like Angela, Michael, and you ask her, what are you doing? What are you doing right now, currently, even after retirement? So things have to function in Kenya. You have to understand this history of celebrating politicians is what is killing Kenyans. You know, during the era of Mui, I'm just gonna wind up. During the era of Moi, people had to step out of their houses, step out of their businesses to greet the president. Can you imagine that? That was in the nineties, so you cannot say, oh my God, it was such a long.

Resisting Demand

German lady. You need to unmute yourself. Yes, I was muted. Yeah, I think someone muted all of us. So unmute yourself and resume from where you were. Okay, alrighty. I appreciate that a lot. We were all muted. So I was saying, in the nineties, you had to step out of your star in order to greet the president. Can you imagine that you could note, continue with your business if the president was passing by? Otherwise you would be shot. That was during my era. And that is why you see a generation, this generation now, which cannot resist. So you ask, okay, I'm frustrated, to be honest. Where I am, I'm so frustrated. I'm like, why don't all parents boycott the new funding system?

Questioning the System

Why are they sending the children to universities? Why? Help was working. It just needed perhaps, you know, a few renovations here and there. They could have adjusted one or two things. But it was working for a few students. People have benefited from it. So when I see things like that not functioning, I'm like, these citizens are actually the enablers of the misery. And it makes me question a lot. But I, you see, this generation now on the spaces comes from the Moi era, many of them. And the parents from that moi era where you could not resist. But Moi did a few things that were very good. He delivered milk to schools.

Examining Education in Context

So that was perhaps the only meal some children had. They could eat it with Ugali, you know, make Masiwamala out of it and, you know, have something to eat. But now the. There is nothing. Even the school feeding system was destroyed and just canceled. I'm going to get to my one or two final points. Education corruption undermines the quality of education by diverting funds meant for schools, teachers salaries and educational materials. It diverts them to the politicians. We can see the bursaries, these, the crazy stuff that is going on. And I just get worked up honestly just thinking about all of these.

Impact on Teacher and Student Access

And it leads to poorly maintained schools, unpaid teachers and a lack of necessary resources. We're talking about basic resources like toilets for the students. Even teachers don't want to teach in schools without doors and windows. Some children, to date, have to cross route rivers to go to school. Why is that possible? It is just terrible. I'm just really angry. Okay, so I'm finishing. I'm finishing. I'm landing. Okay, so doctors have to be paid. They shouldn't pay for medication from their own pockets. And then teachers have to be paid in order to perform because what the United States and Europe are doing right now is attracting students, teachers from, and doctors also from Africa, and paying them very well.

Addressing Healthcare Systems

So you're going to have a brain drain. We need to take this matter seriously. People have to protest against corruption because it always works. Thank you very much. I apologize for taking too much time. Thank you. Thank you. Kenya lady from Germany, thank you for your presentation. Very true sentiment. You said. I agree with them. Earlier on, before, for those joining us, we said that our nation, early on, we said our nation is really grappling with significant governance challenges. We need a reform and accountability more urgent than before. We also said that corruption only has not only eroded public trust in our institutions, but it has also crippled our economy.

Discussion on Corruption

And we already see that it mind our essential service delivery and deepen inequality across the country. Earlier on, also for those joining us, we said exposure, corruption and bad governance is not just a moral obligation, but a call for urgent reforms to ensure accountability across all levels of government. Recently, I think everybody has seen the exposure from one of our speakers who has just joined us, Bonnie Mwangi. He shed a lot of light on the shocking levels of corruptions and mismanagement in our counties and the national government. If you freely follow his Twitter account, you will see all this.

Evidence of Corruption

And I think his detailed analysis, supported by heart data and figures, underscores the urgent need for systemic change and to grasp the full extent of the rot. I encourage everyone to follow him on x and see the numbers there. Hopefully, I will now invite Bonnie to give his opening statements and give us, and then I will yield. And then I can yield the mic to Joe also to give us his comment on this topic. Welcome, Bonnie. Thank you. Thank you, Abdi. Can you guys hear me? Loud and clear. Awesome. Thanks for the opportunity. And I want to thank all of you Kenyans and patriots for joining this discussion.

Need for Engagement

We need to talk more as Kenyans because, like, I just tweeted for a long period of time, you know, smart people that know better, people that understand what it means to be public, in public service, have shied away from our politics because, you know, for a long period of time, our country's politics has been dominated by sort of bottom feeders in our community, right? People of questionable character, people that don't have any qualifications generally, people who have absolutely no business getting anywhere near public offices. And when we do that, what we do is we end up seeding ground to thieves and criminals.

Corruption in High Places

And so that's why you wake up and you look around and you look at the president's cabinet. It's full of people that have stolen money from, you know, you and I, you know, someone like Governor Nanok from Turkana can go and steal billions of shillings from some of the poorest people in our country. Really? All right? I mean, think about a place like Turkana. Literacy rates 20%, right, access to healthcare, almost nonexistent. Infrastructure, nonexistent. And you and I have spent 100 billion in a decade sending money to that county. And the money goes there and the governor basically steals, you know, 30 or 40% of that money and the rest of it is paid out in salaries.

Demanding Accountability

And you have ten years, you know, sending 100 billion and there's nothing to show for it. And then that individual, rather than go to jail or being prosecuted, they end up in state House. Right? Working for the government. You and I are still paying those people's salaries. So my challenge to all of you is to get involved and not accept the status quo because it's not serving us. You guys have followed me. I'm sure some of you have seen I'm spending a lot of time exposing corruption, exposing incompetence. I think that we had a point where we are on the precipice of total collapse, in my view.

Bringing Focus to Issues

I use that statement not to cause any alarm, not to cause any undue trepidation, but I want to make sure that Kenyans wake up to the reality that we are in a very bad spot. Right? You know, I'm an economist, so I can't have any discussion without talking about where we are as a country, right? You guys have heard me say that our country is in debt up to our neck, right? We are, you know, we owe almost 11 trillion shillings, right? And much of this debt is something that we've taken over the last ten years since we had this government.

Financial Context

Kibaki left us with almost 2 trillion debt, good growing economy, right? He had made some progress dealing with corruption. We got this new system and within ten years we've gone from 2 trillion in debt to almost 11 trillion and we have absolutely nothing to show for it, right? Most of that money has gone to people's pockets, right? We have a culture where, you know, people are either going into office 20, 30% of the budget and then the rest of it gets paid to people through salaries, through some ridiculous allowances. And at the end of the day, there's nothing to show for it.

A Call for Change

And so we need to demand more. We need to demand better governance. And I will say that our problems can be boiled down to a few things. I want to try to be brief, but our first issue is that the system or government that we have is not serving us. It's not reasonable, it's not sustainable and it doesn't make sense, right? If you look at our government right now, we have a national government and we have our county governments. We sort of set up this system copying what the Americans have done, right?

Comparative Governmentality

Americans have a national government, they have counter governments. But when you look at these counter governments, sorry, state governments in the US, the reason why they have a governor, and there's a reason why there is a local assembly is because these states are so powerful, they are so large economic wise, that you need people to sort of debate policy. You need people to, for example, come up with tax policy for the state. So there's a reason why you have politicians in office. You know, I live in the state of Texas. Texas as an economy is, you know, if you put Texas, if Texas wasn't with its own country, it will be the 8th largest economy in the world.

Unpacking Local Governments

It's bigger than Canada, right? It's bigger than Brazil. It's bigger than almost every European country. So if that's the case, then it makes sense that we will have politicians, right? But when you look at Kenya, right, if you copy that system and you go to a place like Lamu, there is almost no economy, right? I just posted yesterday, Lamu has 143,000 people and it has 19 mcas. He has a governor, he has a deputy. The economy of Lamu is a very. It's almost like a petrol station. $334 million is almost nothing. In fact, if you take your car for four in somewhere like Nairobi.

Political Structure Evaluation

It has a bigger economy than Lamu, right? So we just copied these systems without really thinking through whether we need them, whether they are serving us. Like, if I ask you right now, if you live in Lamu, what does your local assembly do? What do they do all day? Right? They are not serving you. They are not serving you. And when we look at all of this, you know, we need to really interrogate the structures that we have put in place and take a deep look into whether they are working. If you ask me, they are not working.

Reassessing Responsibilities

And we have been talking about accountability, but we need to actually see that action is taken to ensure that accountability is enforced so that we can function as a society. I believe that we are in a grave situation. There are many great ideas that are formulated every day in various assemblies, in various meetings, however, they don't translate to any impactful change. I would like us to examine the accountability processes that truly need to be in place for governance to not only be promised, but executed effectively without interruption.

Addressing the Challenges

Reform is what we need. Now, that is undeniable. And I think we are here to build a nation where citizens know their rights and those in power are always held accountable. And I hope we can push for that reform. As we go on in this conversation, I urge everyone to engage actively in calling for visibility in the work of our leaders. This includes scrutinizing the allocation of resources in our communities and holding accountable those who misuse them. Thank you for this opportunity to share my thoughts on this important matter.

The Issue of Purpose in Governance

There is no purpose that they serve because there is no economy to be run. But we go and copy these systems. We come in, we put in a governor, deputy governor. We have a local assembly. If you take any county in our country, the local assembly eats between ten and 15% of the budget. And they don't provide any value. There's nothing that you get from it. But 15% of the budget goes there. Then you look at the executive branch, right? You have a governor, you have deputy governor. Take any budget from any county and you're going to see that they take around 10%. So you have 25%. Sometimes 30% of the budget goes to about 50 people. You never get it back. They are not serving you. So we have a system that's unreasonable. It's not sustainable. There's no value that these people are providing. And they are taking up a lot of our resources. So that's the first issue we overrepresented.

Analysis of Local Assembly Representation

Again, I posted like this week, Lamu, right? 140,000 people. But they have 19 MCAs. So each MCA is serving 7500 people. For what? I live in Texas, a state that has 30 million people, has 181 members of parliament, 150 in the House, 31 in the Senate. That tells you that each of those politicians is serving about 166,000 people. So one individual is serving more people than we have in Lamu. But in Lamu, we insist on having a governor, a deputy governor and 19 MCAs. It doesn't make sense. We cannot sustain it. And so we need to think about changes.

Fiscal Management Concerns

The other problem that's bad is this. Our country, because of a long period of fiscal mismanagement, every shilling that we are sending to these counties is actually borrowed money. And that makes what's happening even worse. So our country, over the last ten years, we're incurring about a trillion shillings in debt. So every year that goes by, there's a trillion that's going into the balance sheet, right? Because we never balance our budgets, right. Our politicians insist on having some of the highest incomes in the world. They insist on everyone having a car and a house, which is ridiculous. We are poor country. We cannot sustain it. You know, you and I have jobs. You know, I can't expect my employer to build me a mansion just because, you know, I have a job and I work there. It's ridiculous.

Corruption and Mismanagement at County Levels

So again, overrepresented. The system doesn't make sense. We need to demand that this government be shrunk down. The other issue that we have is this, and it flows from having a system where you're overrepresented. If you look at every shilling that we have today, we are spending 60% of every shilling that we get as revenues just to pay interest on that amount of debt that we built up over the last ten years. So when you give up 60% of your. Of your revenue as a country, you are not free people. There's nothing that you can sit down and say you're going to plan on, right? You cannot decide how much money you're going to invest infrastructure, in hospitals and education because there's no money.

The Consequences of Debt on Development

Right? Just think about this in your own terms. Like in your family, if you're earning 100,000 a month, but 60,000 has to go and pay interest on some that you've accumulated, are you really free? Right? You're going to be juggling, you know, you're going to be robbing Peter to pay a poor so we can operate like that. We need this to change. And in my view, the people that got us to this position cannot be the ones entrusted to fix the problem because they've shown us that they have no interest or they don't understand how to fix it. So we need new leadership. So when we send 400 billion every year to the counties, 100% of that money is borrowed. Because like I say, we are borrowing a trillion shillings every year and we are sending 400 billion to the counties.

Examination of County Resource Allocation

So, you know, if you live in a place like Turkana and we are sending 15 billion every year, a hundred percent of that money is borrowed. And so then take a look at how the money is being sent when it gets to the counties. And that's where you get depressed, right? I spent more time, probably than anybody over the last year or two, looking at how our counties are spending your money when it gets there. And I can tell you it's a crime scene in almost every county, 20% often is stolen outright, right? So I take, for example, Migori, the governor there, steals 2 billion, you know, the budget is 9 billion. So when someone steals 20% of the budget, one individual steals 20% of the budget and leaves of, you know, some of the poorest people with nothing, right?

Corruption Patterns Across Counties

I can't even describe that. It's like inhumane, right? But that's what's happening in all these places. A big chunk of the money is stolen when it gets there. Then the rest of it, they pay themselves some of the heftiest salaries, some of the most generous allowances. You can never even, like, I've never even heard of something like a risk allowance, something like a tuition allowance or a responsibility allowance. And, you know, they pay them all those nice salaries and benefits and then the rest of the time they are spending jumping from one county to the next, from one country to the. Our country spent 15 billion last year on domestic travel and they spend 2 billion on foreign travel.

Extravagant Spending and Misallocation of Funds

Look at the smallest count. If you look, what if you want to be depressed, look at some of the poorest counties and some of the most remote that we have in our country and look at how much they're spending your money. You find out that they spend, you know, much of their time in Dubai, in Singapore, in Switzerland, in Germany, in Canada. I have no problem with people visiting all these places. But do it on your own dime, right? You can't do it on the back of people that are making 10,000, 20,000 a month. So we need to demand better governance and we need to think about the people that we're putting into.

The Role of Accountability in Governance

If you put in people who are criminals, people who've never worked for a living, people who never run a budget, they never ran anything, they're not going to be disciplined with your money. And so, you know, you find out that account like Tucson, you know, you send 15 billion every year and. Bori, are you there? We lost you. Yeah. Yes, we can hear you now. I am sorry. I am sorry. What I was saying is that we need, you know, I need all citizens to be, to start paying attention to what's happening in these places because, you know, I was giving you an example of a place like Turkana.

Failure of Fiscal Strategies Over Time

You know, we've spent over 100 billion over the last ten years. And if you go back to Turkana and you look at what have you gotten for hundred billion, you spend time in the county and you're going to find out that if you look at any reasonable measure of progress in our lives in terms of, let's say, access to education, access to healthcare, better infrastructure, there's almost no measurable growth. Literacy rates, same as it was ten years ago. 20%, 80% of the population in Turkana cannot read. Right. Child mortality rates, same or worse. Right. Access to healthcare, same or worse. And we've spent 100 billion there.

Implications of Corruption and Governance Shifts

The only thing that has happened over the last ten years is people have gotten to be billionaires. Some of these people are building, you know, large estates in Kenya and elsewhere because our system promotes and embraces thieves. Right? So we need to think about, honestly, if you guys want to achieve change, the surest way to do that is to really think about the people that you put into office, because you can have all the laws in the world, but if you have criminals, we have a very progressive constitution.

The Necessity for Legal and Systemic Reform

But if the president is himself a thief and he appoints people like Nanok, people like Charles Kidero, right? People like Opra, he's putting the same people, the same thieves into office. How do you expect, you know, what do you expect to happen? Right? Your laws mean nothing if you have thieves in office. So I'm telling every Kenyan, think about the next election. Start thinking about, you know, how do you select your leaders? Because if you can really think through your leaders, making sure, don't select someone because of a party.

Considerations for Future Leadership and Governance

Think through, you know, what does this individual represent? Right? Does he have a history of accomplishments? Has he ever been accused of stealing from the public? Right. These are the questions that you guys have to take about. And so let me stop there and then, you know, hand over to the next person, and then I'm sure we'll talk more. Thank you. Thank you, Bonnie, always. Thank you again for always providing us with critical economic data, for exposing the underlying corruption, and for giving it a face.

The Role of Public Accountability in Governance

Your ability to break down these complex issues and connect the dots has been invaluable, helping us understand the root of our struggle. I think it is crucial to demand transparency, accountability from those in power. The numbers you share not only highlight the scale of the problem, but serve as a reminder that without a systemic change, this injustice will persist forever. I think I agree with you that we must remain vigilante.

Actions Against Corruption

Push for reforms that address corruption deeply embedded in our institution. We can drive the change we need in Kenya. Having said that, I will yield the mic to Joe and Doctor Madhus after. Before we cycle back to our guest speaker, Doctor Milton. Joe, the floor is open for you. Thank you. Okay, Joe can hear us. Doctor Maju. I can hear you. Okay, we'll come back to you. Thank you, Joe.

The Need for Engagement in Corruption Discourse

All right. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to make a comment or two on your space. At first, I want to commend Bonnie Mwangi on the work that he is doing, going around 47 counties of Kenya and auditing them and exposing the auditor general's reports and making sure that they are published and everyone understands them. Bonnie, keep up the good work. I think as a nation and as young people, we need to take this a step further.

The Need for Legal Accountability

After these guys have been exposed, we should be asking ourselves, what's next? What are we exposed? The corruption. And I know we all come from a diverse background, those of us who have degrees in law. We need to start filing lawsuits against some of these people. Some of the, some of the. Some of these people being exposed for their corrupt deeds. They have not covered their tracks. They are exposed and the only thing they have is time.

Pushing for Active Legal Measures

If you give it more time, there will not be, maybe evidence will get to disappear. And we need to sue them. We need to file lawsuits in court so we can. We can sue them as soon as possible. Like right now, folks from Machakos, they should be organizing and maybe an impeachment motion against their governor for being found with over 4 million pounds, trying to deposit 4 million pounds in a UK bank.

Immediate Action Against Corrupt Officials

Money that belonged to the people of Machakos County, MCAs of Machakos county. Right now, they should be meeting, even if it's on a Sunday, they should be meeting and discussing, because that is an impeachable offense. And someone from the ESCC, from the Ethics and anti corruption Authority should be arranging, or someone from the DCI, they should have already traveled to the UK to make sure that they handle that evidence. Correct.

Corruption as a Threat to Society

They bring the money, they repatriate the money back to Kenya, and they repatriate that governor back and charge her in a court of law. We are very lenient when it comes to corruption, but when it comes to petty offenses, we are very brutal with those people who do those petty offenses. And it's almost high time that we start seeing corruption for what it is. It is an act of terrorism.

Impact of Corruption on Public Welfare

Corruption is war. When someone steals over 4 million pounds, over 729 million shillings, meant for the public infrastructure issues, that is someone who is taking a lot of money from your healthcare, someone who is taking a lot of money roads, someone who's taking money from the education of your people. This is essentially someone who's trying to kill you, someone who's trying to make sure that you remain as poor and they don't care.

Gender and Corruption

And right now, in Kenya, corruption does not respect gender. When Kenyans voted in the seven women governors, we thought they were going to make a change. We thought since women are usually the planners and the budgeters in our homes, that they will make a huge splash. They will make a huge difference in the running of these counties. But most of these counties being led by women, they are leading in corruption cases.

Accountability and Public Discourse

And we need to do something about it as we make. We need to do some. Something about. About corruption. I think I will stop with that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Joe. Before we proceed to Doctor Maju, I agree with you for sure. Exposing corruption is just the first step. I think we need to ensure it leads to accountability.

Systemic Changes Needed

I think you are right. In Kenya, we have seen many cases where scandals were uncovered, but no significant actions follows. What we need now is a robust legal framework that guarantees swift investigations and prosecutions and asset recovery. Additionally, I think also it's crucial to strengthen the role of the independent institutions like the judiciary, the ethics and the anti-corruption, the auditor general, and also the public needs to be more vigilant, not just in pointing fingers, but demanding a systemic reform that ensures those implicated in corruption cannot return to public office.

Prevention of Corruption

I think the focus should shift to creating a system that prevents corruption from taking root in the first place through transparent public participation in governance and strong oversight mechanisms. Having said that, I will yield back the mic to Doctor Madjuice. And then we go in that order. Abdi, I wanted to say something that you just brought out to the light. We don't have to wait for the office of the Director of Public Prosecution to file those lawsuits in court.

Alternative Avenues for Legal Action

We have the other route of asking for a judicial review. You can, as an individual, or even as individuals, you can file. You can file in court. And if I, several of you make such filings, especially against the same person, they will be given priority. They don't have to wait two, three, or maybe six years like they do. And I think it's about time that we as one did that.

Focus on Legislative Integrity

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for the addition, Joe. Yeah, I was also talking about strengthening these institutions. Okay. Having said that, Doctor Maju, go ahead. Thank you very much. Thank you, Hilary, the host. Thank you, Abdi, the course. And Doctor Nyakundi, allow me also to congratulate Bonnie for doing the great work that he is doing and also for that good submission.

Engagement in National Issues

First, I would like to appreciate everyone who has taken his time to join this space so that we can discuss on our. We can take our country to the next level. That's really showing how concerned we are. I have some questions for Bonnie. Maybe if I'm done, you will come up again. And as you have talked of the number of MCAs within our counties, you have also talked about the flow of the cash that are coming to the county government, the percentage.

Reflecting on Leadership and Governance

I think this one was discussed some days back when we were having professors, someone, this guy from Machakos. And also you have talked about the what next? Which is very important and also the new leadership. These are key areas that actually we need to touch so that we talk of. Our topic of today is very broad, exposing the corruption and bad governance.

The Impact of Governance on Society

That's what is killing this country. And on top of that, we have another body called ourselves, we as Kenyans, our character, how we behave. This is a country whereby someone is doing something that is much injustice and you just don't mind, you just move ahead. The small things that we see on the street we should reject so that people know how serious we are.

Encouraging Accountability at Every Level

I think that's how you go to a western country. That's how they behave. So let's start by ourselves so that we make some corrections. I don't think that Kenya doesn't have enough money that can sustain our MCAs. So I will ask Bonnie if really the issue of MCAs can really affect our economy, the number of MCAs that we are having.

Corruption as an Economic Barrier

This is not the first time people are talking about the number of MCAs and etc. It is a matter of corruption. When corruption has come to an end, things will be flowing, things will better. Again, MCAs are very important and I would like to tell people that these are the places people don't take them serious. I think. I don't know how we can talk about on the requirements of the MC's at least we should be having a certain level, at least diploma for us to have an MCA.

Criteria for Leadership Selection

So that we don't just take people who can't even reason, who can't even question the governor. Because within the assembly, just like the upper houses, they have the committees. There is committee of finance, there is committee of health. Then you have someone in the committee of finance who cannot reason, cannot read, even if you are not specialized in finance, but you have no IQ to understand something.

The Urgency for Meaningful Governance

You know, one school, you are always a learned person, is a learned person. So this is a place where we have to start with because. Because we have got two different governments, the county government and the national government. The only way we can also talk about rectify the issue of corruption is this country is to make sure that we do correct voting in the parliaments.

Political Participation and Corruption

Kindly whoever you are talking to the parliament, let him be a serious person who can feel the pain, who can reason, not someone who can be manipulated. Those are the area whereby the rain is really beating us from and making the corruption to be bigger than cancer and bigger than even Covid-19 and even epochs to this country. This thing is really killing us again.

Character and Culture in Leadership

I'll talk about ourselves. Why? Why not? In Kenya, when we talk about new leadership, we should be going to town halls, to politicians. Then we walk back home. You should be joining spaces to listen to politicians after work in the afternoon, we listen to their policies. Then you close your space and go. But why are we demanding that we must meet there?

The Cycle of Corruption and Accountability

We are being given something. When these people give you something small, they handout. They also empty their savings. So when they go there with a mind like I need to refill my pot before my time ends. So even though they were good people before elected, they turn to be other things. Because our characters also send them into that kind of behavior.

The Personal Responsibility of Citizens

So as ourselves, we need to change again. Corruption is all governance is an issue in this country is an issue. I know some of the counties whereby you sit in a meeting with the CC health and people who don't understand anything. Even if you have a donor, they speak things that will send donors away. So you wonder which kind of country is this? Those are one of the things that we need to consider.

Shift in Governance Responsibilities

The governance must also stop rewarding people according to how they participated during politics. That's another. Another issue that is really killing us that I look at what happened just the other day. Why will we remove Oalo then we bring one die and they all come from Nyamza and from Nyamza. If we talk of unity and doing what, what, why means there is. There is a reason.

The Future of Leadership Reform

There is a reason why you are bringing such people. So we should put all those ones aside and then focus. Those are the things that he are really hindering us and we need to make some changes on that. But I would like to borrow from or talk about what Kibaki did. Somebody talked about it here. During the coalition government, Kibaki closed all the taps of cartels and corruption.

Comparison of Leadership Styles

And at least were making a step to a certain place. To an extent that you can feel this is a country. During Kibaki, life was a bit cheap compared to now. Even if you talk over debt, Kibaki left us in 2 trillion. Bonnie has talked about it here. But life was better. Why now means we have a lot of money.

Understanding Economic Disparity

But the corruption is making some few individuals to have all this in their pocket. So if we want to make a change, if we want to expose corruption, let's stand up and speak. Speak for everything that it is bad. Speak for everything and speak to your leaders. Speak through the voting, wherever you are voting.

The Essential Role of the Law Society

Be it an MCA, be it a senator, be it MP. We have to do something again on the law society. Our law society is rotten. I will request Larry one day. You bring faith here so that we talk to them. What are they doing? The cases that we are having are taking digits for those cases to come to an end and we get justice.

The Call for Expedited Justice

So we have to do something over there so that we can follow the right direction. Whereby we don't need to wait for EACC, we don't need to wait for the police to arrest such people who are corrupt. We can sue them in the court of law. Then they, we get justice that directly.

The Barriers to Accountability

Because when we wait for these bodies, these people know each other. Once that corruption still exists, they will bribe so that they slow these issues. I remember the ESCC team walk to the counties. When they want to get money, they threaten you with an issue, you will give them money.

Corruption and its Impact on Justice

So they come each and every financial year at least to show up so that they get something. To show up so that they get something. But there is no justice. That's what I can say for now. I hope I'll come back again to contribute more as Bonnie give answer to the questions that I ask.

Final Thoughts on Governance and Change

Thank you. Thank you, Doctor Maju. That's really true. Before I circle back to Doctor Milton, our guest speaker, and then to Bonnie. And then we can give the mic. There's a lot of requests and we'll be giving the mic to the speakers who are waiting. Thank you. I will also sample a few comments from the speakers.

Public Sentiment on Leadership

Let's see. I have Albo. He says there is no goodwill from the top. If the head is rotten, don't expect anything good. We have to be wise during elections. We have boniface. There is no, there is the auditor general report. That is for honest, is pretty much smoked and mirrors.

The Path Forward

It doesn't give conclusive bad eye view on the extent of the inheritance and bureaucratic corruption. Having said that, it can be used here for public protection, to raise litigation if necessary. So I will yield back the mic to Doctor Milton. Thank you. Go ahead, Doctor Milton.

Addressing Corruption Case-by-Case

Thank you. Let me address myself to some very specific cases. And I want to start by looking. At the. Issues that Bolivia raised, the issues to do with over representation, number one. Number two, another issue that is key is for us to take a. The fight against corruption must go beyond exposure. And going beyond exposure means that we can invoke the provisions of the law to move.

The Impact of Sports Governance on Corruption

And I would give an example in 2018, when I first exposed theft of 200 million shillings at the Football Kenya Federation through money that was lost in the name of buying an outside world carrier. And later on, I got exposed and I got documents to show that the leadership of the federation was, you know, diverting public money in the manner that honorable Ovinian Detti has done.

Advocating for Justice

And I don't think she's no longer honorable. I did more than what journalists do, which is we just report and expose and we don't care what happens. And wait for the DPP to act. Elevated the fight in not just exposing corruption, but going a step further. And I would give an example of what I did at the time and what I have continued to do.

Building a Stronger System Against Corruption

And this is the reason why I am inviting people to send whatever information they have. And Bonnie on the sidelines, I would want us to, you know, begin a way of working together to make sure that we go county by county exposing that corruption and where we have credible evidence. Then as Milton Yakundi and as Kurunzi news, we are taking it over and above and instituting petitions on behalf of the people of Kenya to the institutions of DCI and the DPP.

Navigating through Legal Frameworks

And where they fail to act, then we have personally taken the initiative to take these people to court ourselves. I have done that in the case. Those of you who are familiar with football matters, and we have been successful in getting orders and directions against those people. So what we have done is that in the case of football in 2018, I not only wrote those stories and exposed what was happening, but I went beyond that.

Continuing the Fight Against Corruption

And I then filed a petition invoking Article 32, Article sorry, 37 of the Constitution, presenting petitions. And I petitioned the DCI, gave them my evidence and I told them, this is the evidence I have. And can we therefore have you investigate these matters? What they did, they called me in, I did my statement, they moved to the courts, they got orders and the end of it, after two years, almost two years, were able to get the leadership of the federation.

Legal Actions and Their Outcomes

Nick Mundo was arrested at the time. They were removed from office of the law. And we got things moving. And as a journalist, I've been able to appear in court, I've been able to institute public interest of these issues. And I say it can be done. So it doesn't just end with exposing, we must now take it a notch higher and demand for accountability.

Setting Legal Precedents

And one of the things that we have to do now is to then put together the evidence. Does it meet the threshold? We don't have to wait for the DPP to act, because 100% of the time the DPP, they are holding on to those cases and hoping that these people will come with an offer. And that is how cases are being caught. Compromise.

Empowering Citizen Engagement

So if we as the citizens take it upon ourselves and use Article 22 of the constitution, as a Kenyan, you have a right to move the court on whatever matter that you want, including on corruption. So if we are able to do that, we will be able to hold these people accountable. And that is, I think, something more important.

Coordination among Citizens

Like the Adam, even as we do the occupation and everything, I am asking those who have the evidence bring it forth. We will move the courts and we will stop that Adani deal from taking effect pending the hearing and resolution of the cases that we have put in court. That is the way to derail these thieves from taking over.

Mobilizing Against Corruption

In fact, right now, what we need to do is to ask the people of Machakos that the governor is stopped from transacting on behalf of the people we can get. Those are miscellaneous applications that people can file and the court can give the orders. And if the court then give those orders and they are not followed, then the people now move in and occupy those offices and occupy those positions.

Ensuring Legal Support for Civil Actions

So there are those legal measures that we must take as a matter of necessity, so that we make sure that whatever we are doing also has the backing and the support of the law. And it cannot be defeated by people claiming that we are using Django law to be able to occupy these places. And there is nothing substantive.

The Importance of Substantial Legal Frameworks

At the end of the day, the activism that we are doing has to be backed by substantive legal measures so that we have that backup, so that somebody doesn't come and say they rush to court and they get orders and therefore the people are gagged. That is what I needed us to say and I needed to say, and we can continue engaging so that we get to the details of the specific projects and we are able to address them as time goes by.

Closing Remarks

Thank you.

Discussion on Economic Activities and MCA Roles

Economic policy, climate change policy, taxation policy. There's a reason to have these people. But if you go to Kenya and you find most of these places, there is almost no economic activity. There's nothing to manage. So if I ask you, if you come from Seattle and I ask you, what do you think your mcas are doing all day? Right? 99% of the people cannot tell me of anything that they know that the mcs are doing. We just hire people and we call them cas. And then you find out that they spend most of their time running from one hotel to the next. Most people don't know this. On average, a lot of countries that I've seen are spending 10% of their budget, dining, eating 10% of the amount, traveling from one place to the next, I am telling you, there's no value to these people. Again, I take every county in the country and I do an average, I'm telling you, ten to 15% of the budget goes to the county assembly. And there's no value that you get from those people. For most. For the most part, there's no economic activity to debate. There's nothing, there's no value that they're bringing.

Concerns over Budget Allocation and Representation

So you're just paying, you know, 20 to 30 people 1015 percent of the budget and you don't get anything back. So we cannot divorce common sense from business sense. The other point I want to make is this representation is important, but we also want to make sure that it's sustainable, right? Why do we feel like we need to have an MCA for every 7000 people in a place like Lamo? If you look at, I just posted in this discussion some data that I have, right? If you look at those pictures, if you have access and look at the fourth column, right, you will see that there is no method for the madness in some places. For example, if I pick Baringo as an example, there is 666,000 people. There are 46 MCAs in that county. That means that for every 14,000 people, there's one MCA. Okay? So I look at the next one, bombet, 875,000 people, 39 MCAs. That means one MC is representing about 22,000 people. Okay? I look at that, the second attachment, I'm just going to pick a county like Mandera, 459,000 people is a population of 50 mcas.

Highlighting Variations in Representation

That means one MCA is representing 9000 people. Do you see the variation here? There is no reason for having this many, this type of depreciation, right? And again, it just tells you that there's no method to the madness. We just come up with a system without really thinking through the practicality and whether or not this is something that we can sustain. So over representation is an issue. I'm just going to tell you this again. I live in Texas. Every, for every 166,000 people, we have one politician representing us, it works fine. And what I will say is, if you are a politician and you feel like you cannot represent that many people, maybe we don't need you. We need people that are smarter and better in terms of productivity. We need to demand better. You cannot have a system where if the standard goal of devolution is to bring development, is to bring services, is to bring accountability to the people, what sense does it make to have that system and then end up spending 70% of the resources on a small group of people?

Call to Improve Devolution Goals

Like, don't you think if you and I started, let's say, a charity and say, hey, we're gonna be, you know, we wanna, you know, we wanna raise money and we wanna bring, let's say we wanna. We wanna, you know, find kids that are, you know, from either broken families or people that don't have parents. We wanna support them to put them through school if that's our goal. And we raise 100 million, but we end up spending 70 or 80 million on ourselves. I mean, does that make sense to anybody? So we have to look at devolution from that. You know, from that perspective, if the idea is to bring development and to bring services and bring accountability, we have to ask ourselves whether or not the system as is set up right now is actually achieving those goals. And my analysis, you guys are saying, tells me that we are not actually doing that. We are not serving anyone. We're just serving a few individuals. So we cannot divorce the issue of representation.

Arguments for Reducing Corruption in Governance

The fact that it's taking up a lot of the resources and essentially allocating it to a few people, we cannot divorce that. That's an important part of the discussion. And particularly when you couple the issue of a representation with the fact that our politicians in our country are some of the highest paid politicians in the world. If you look at global compensation for politicians, our politicians are the second highest paid politicians anywhere in the world when you. When you. When you consider the size of our GDP. So our politicians in Kenya make, They. They are the second hands in the world, you know, higher paid than, you know, for example, politicians in Texas, higher paid than politicians in Switzerland and Germany and any. Any sort of first world country you can think of, we pay them more. When you consider the size of our GDP, what value do we get for that? Right? So you have over representation, and then you have a ridiculous system of compensation.

Governor Compensation and Public Service

That's a recipe for disaster, and it's not sustainable. And there's no reason to tell me that a governor of a place like megory should earn almost 200 times the average income of the person in that. In that citizen. Like, if I'm your governor and I'm earning 200, but 200 times the average citizen in that county, doesn't that tell you there's an issue? I live in Texas, right? The average income here is about 80,000. Right? The per capita income, the governor of Texas makes about $153,000. So it's almost twice the average income, but it's not 177 times, 150 times. Right. So we need to change compensation, because then you start attracting the right people so that someone is now looking at going to government as a method to achieve wealth. Right? You bring in the right people that know what it means to be public service. You don't go into. You don't go into public service to become rich.

Ending the Existing Issues in Governance

You go in to serve people. And so I will say that we need to think about reducing compensation if someone does not want to serve people. Look, if. If you cannot be a governor by making three or 400,000, then you don't need to be in it, right? Go, go somewhere else. All right. So again, let me hand it over to. I think you wanted to hand over to Mzalando, right? Yes, we hand over to Muzalindo. I think he has put up a petition. And then we go, of course, Maximo, Fidel, ndovu, Maureen, in that order for 1 minute before we cycle back to our guest speakers. Thank you, Zalindo. Go ahead. You can hear me? Okay. I can hear you very well. Thank you so much.

Corruption and Bad Governance Educations

Abdi, Mukiwana, Hilary. So first, allow me to comment on the topic before I brief you guys on the petition. So exposing corruption and bad governance. I will start by saying that impunity thrives in a population where people are ignorant. That is where impunity thrives. And even the way that the Bible says in Hosea four six that my people perish because of lack of knowledge. So I will encourage us the only way to expose corruption and bad governance is by conducting civil education. Because there are people outside there who don't even know the forms of corruption. Like today the nation posted something that western hotel actually receiving a bigger chunk of government tenders. So when I shared that one on Facebook, like there were some guys who are asking like in Cinnabia, shara too. That is a form of corruption because conflict of interest state capture any kunawato how many forms of corruption.

Strategies to Combat Corruption

So we need just to enlighten people. Wajiwe kwanzaa easy forms corrupt. Then we also need to conduct civic education. The mutua to factor. We need to remove the mutuatu factor. If we remove the mutu more corruption and bad governance in issues, what strategies can we deploy to expose corruption and bad governance and to hold leaders who are corrupt accountable. The things that we can do, we can use. Social media is a powerful tool. If we can do things like theater, we do a moot court in a trend. This is what is happening. And a pronounced judgment on that type of case depict your county, certain county assembly, I'm a certain constituency, articles of the constitution, what it says and the judge makes judgment on that case. So that these guys can know yaquamba, we know their dealings.

Petition Against Adani Group Agreement

We can also use things like content creation. We can use the content creators peer to queen forms on how to expose corrupt leaders and leaders with bad governance. Now just allow me to touch a little bit on the petition. We, we sponsored a petition to stop the Kaa Adani group agreement. So the script is out. We are meeting tomorrow in town to sign. I was with Kot and Wanyama. So we have some two employees from Kaa. We will meet with them in town tomorrow. But now we needed to make the petition more tangible and to have more weight. So we are requesting for more people to come and sign. We are nothing, will not give contact. The provision for signing is just a name and a signature. At Jaweka. Place your id to make a ton signature.

Gathering Support for the Petition

So if there's anybody who will be in town tomorrow around ten. We can. You can dm me. I send you the sample. So that tomorrow when you're coming to sign. You know what you're coming to sign. So the basis that we have used. We. We are petitioning the ministry of. The Ministry of transport and roads. Because at the center of this agreement we also petition the secretary, the cabinet secretary for national treasury. Because we have several cases where Adani has evaded paying taxes. Adani has been accused of tax evasion. They are just shoddy. They are not providing any information. And even there is a court before the Supreme Court of India. And the securities exchange Bureau of Board of India. Where allegations of tax evasion, stock manipulation and account irregularities were confirmed against Adani.

Concerns over Adani's Operations

So we are telling this minister of treasury. And then we are also asking the cabinet secretary for labor and social protection. This guy Alfred Mutua was in JKIA last week, Wednesday. And his engagement with the KAA. Because now we know that Adani is a promoter of cronism. An appenda ukabila Daniel, appenda brotherism, nanepotism. Mutua should be aware. Thousands of employees at KAA are going to miss jobs when Adani comes. So what is his input? Because he was not even responding to their questions. If you listen to what Mutua was saying. He was only asking them to calm down or script. So we're asking ourselves, if Mutua can confirm then who is me? Who is Boniface Mangi? Who is Hillary? If a cabinet secretary can confirm minister transporter Kirodi Aliqua China.

Issues of Governance and Transparency

So which means this is a government that is working against itself. This is a case that is concerning the minister of labor. Because more than thousands of people could lose jobs. He's not aware of what is going on. Which brings us to our first concern. Lack of proper, fair and transparent public participation could. Maybe it was not conducted. And if it was conducted it was not fair. Because if a cabinet secretary in this government can confirm the script of the agreement. Then it means either there was no public participation done according to article 227. Or it was done in a manner that was not transparent and in a manner that was nothing fair. And also we are concerned about the means of communication. PPP section three, subsection 315 requires proper communication to unions, employees, users, stakeholders.

Calls for Greater Accountability

But if you hear what mutua was saying, mutua says Yakwamba people are acting on hearsays. So I will go and ask the minister concerned to provide you with available information. Meaning even just land. Yes, yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I'm landing. Meaning even the union, Kenya the cow, are not aware of what is going on. Nothing has been communicated to them. So those are the basis of our, that found our, that formed our petition. So we are going to petition them because to complete Atikwari Nina Sema, we have the right to pick it, to demonstrate and to submit a petition to government authorities. So this time around we are dedicated to submit a petition so that they don't accuse us of that.

Questions on Kenyan Sovereignty

Thank you so much. I will be here till maybe. Thank you, msalando. Thank you again. I think as you said, the Adani deal and its implications on the JKA lease, the main question we need to ask is what does this mean for the kenyan sovereignty? I think leasing one of our most strategic national assets to foreign entity, especially under conditions that haven't been fully disclosed to the public, raises very serious concerns about transparency and accountability. I think the lack of open dialogue on the terms of the deal, including how this will impact the workers at JK, the local economy, even our national security, should alarm all of us.

Evaluating the Impacts of Major Deals

Are we prioritizing short term financial gain over our long term stability and control of our key infrastructure? We haven't seen. We have seen controversial dealings with Adani in other countries with allegations of environmental violations and labor exploitation. So should we trust this company to handle such critical assets? This deal also is emblematic of a larger issue in Kenya, a pattern of making decisions that do not fully consider the long term welfare of the people. We need transparency, accountability and, most importantly, consultation with the stakeholders, including the public.

Demanding Accountability

Public participation is very important and to ensure this deal works for Kenyans, not just for select individuals. As we move forward, we shall demand more robust discussions and reviews of this leasing to make sure that our country interests come first. Thank you, Mzalindo. And we'll look into that petition. There's a lot of speakers who have been waiting and I'll give them 1 minute each in that order. What is Westin Shihalo, Mzalendo, you are there. I mean, Maximo, Fidel you go ahead. And. And then we move in that order. 1 minute each. Go ahead.

Encouragement for Public Participation

West in Shilahu. Fidel. Go ahead if you can hear me. Fidel, you can hear me. Okay. Ndovu, you can hear me. Go ahead. Okay. Doctor Milton, you can hear me? Anyone who. Yes, I can hear you. Okay. So I'm just giving this opportunity to western Shirajo and then to Maximo Masimba. Or koth? Do you want to do your submission? Okay. I think the speakers are not there. So let's go back to Bonnie. You had a question. Okay. Massimo, go ahead. I am here. Okay.

Building Engagement for National Issues

Okay. Before, before comes in. Let me, let me chip in then, Milton. Thank you, Milton. And I, Bonnie, for your wonderful submissions and I think our fellow Kenyans included, we are educated and encouraged on how to stand firm and be true patriots of our beloved country. Now, actually, we have talked a many times. We have talked about what are the problems we see. We can be able to see. We don't have even to be told exactly what is ailing our country. This is an issue of leadership crisis. And most of the time now we focus on politics to solve this kind of crisis so that we can move to other areas like economy, how the economy can grow.

Focus on Sustainable Development

What kind of strategy do we have as a nation to make sure that our people get to have a good standard of living? So all the focus has been and has remained to be an issue of politics. Now, when we look at the demography of our country, we stand as at a disadvantaged position because of the card that these politicians, they are using more the tribe card. And when we look at these political parties, they are not necessarily formed on ideological ground, but they are just vehicles to take this politician from one point to the other. Now, when it comes to presidential elections, this is a life and death issue. I say so because there's one say which says those who vote decide nothing. But to those who count the vote decides everything.

Electoral Systems and Representation

And in this case, we have already seen its perennial issues. Every election season we have seen it how the issue of vote stealing, irregularities. And what have you already serviced all the time? So it means that those who vote do not decide. Those who count the vote decide everything. Now, what is it that we can do to make sure that we have the right band of leadership in positions which can impact the growth of our country positively? Another issue that I see is, and actually, as it has been documented, is that when it comes to numbers, how much we collect as revenue for the taxes. I'm not sure whether that is true or it's a political statement.

Challenges in Revenue Collection

I don't know. They say that it can take care of eight countries. What do you correct now? When we look at where we stand right now, the debt is actually so huge to the point whereby we don't know how and when we are going to clear this debt all the time. As long as we are in this monetary system, which is fiat countries, they are printing money and more. So the US, which is the owner of the dollar, then we find like even covering the ground in terms of paying those debts in the tune of 11 billion trillion, actually, it becomes a huge task and then we'll be ending up every election cycle. We are recycling hope, you know, a politician coming in and telling us, oh, this is what we are going to do.

Recycling Leadership in Kenya

And when they come into the office, they are just ecstatic. They don't know exactly what to do. Now, looking at how the devolved system has worked so far for those 14 years, actually, Bonnie Bonin, I agree with you that it has never and it won't work as it is constituted, because for those who live actually, maybe in the US or Canada or in Europe, most of the systems in the US and Canada, you will attest that each region or territories, would it be a state or province, they take care of their business, they collect taxes on behalf of the federal government. So, for example, in Canada, they do 13%. In the Ontario province, they forward or they submit 5% of that correction to the federal government.

Dependency on National Government

The 8% remains within the province, and then that money is budgeted for the specific things that are unique and needed within that province. So those territories, they have unique needs, which are not necessarily the same, but how they do their revenue streams, how they correct the revenues, they don't really necessarily depend on the federal government. But in our system, you find that the county governments, they are totally, 100% depending on the federal government, the national government, to disperse funds. And this is where sometimes I see that. I don't know how we can work on each county government to take care of their own business in terms of correcting revenue. So that if a governor is not collecting the revenues, you find that other counties, which are efficient in terms of correcting revenues, dispersing and arranging, you know, or planning for their development, they are growing, and this one will attract investors and what have you.

Commercialization of Politics

But the system that we have currently is a politics, which is a business kind of politics. It's commercialized. The only way that you can do well in life is to be a politician, which is not necessarily the case. It shouldn't be that way anyways. The politician should be the people who go to represent. And when they go to represent it, there they are servants not served as kings. You know, like, you know, the way we respect this politician, the way we. They come and talk and then we celebrate what they are talking, even if they are talking nonsense. It is something that is really wanting more so in our mindset as a people.

Changing Mindsets in Governance

So sometimes even me suggesting that we have to go to the parlor, then change the leadership, sometimes it doesn't work because we have already seen how we are succuling with these leaders. We get new leaders, they go in there and they get corrupted. Sometimes it's very hard. Let me tell you, brothers and sisters, about truth. The success does not come easy, will never be easy. Task building a nation, building anything that you have to build it has to be strategic. Destroying it necessarily. You don't need the strategy to destroy it. Okay, I think the speaker dropped most probably.

Addressing Corruption and Violence

Can I share something? Okay, go ahead. This is Okoto Pondo. Thank you so much. I think to me this is like a dream come true, especially meeting Bonnie. I'm the gentleman that you've seen the video that I exposed yesterday, the stadium millionaires. And actually, I have to say, I'm one person who consumes a lot of data and information from Bonnie here. And one thing that I know I can proudly say I'm gifted at is getting the.

Failure in Leadership Accountability

Sorry, I don't know why we are losing speakers. Hillary? I don't know. We have been losing speakers here. Yes, I can hear you. I don't know. Speakers have been dropping. Can we have rob speak? Yeah, mine will be brief. Just 1 minute. Yeah. Okay. Can I go ahead or. Yes, yes. Cool. So mine will be brief. When I. When I think about this whole corruption discussion, it's all about money going from a government account to an individual's private account somewhere.

Tracing Corruption Flow

However, whatever route it uses, whether it's from the government to a contractor, from the contractor to the politician's account, whether it's from the government to some lawyers, from the lawyer back to the politician's account. So it's tracking that money. And sometimes we have to rely on the likes of, say, the UK revealing what's going on with, for instance, this wave nonsense. We also have our own laws that can do that. So we have that act from 2009. I think it's the proceeds of Crime and Anti Money Laundering act, which requires financial institutions to report suspicious activity and also money crossing a certain threshold.

Utilizing Financial Tracking Systems

So now where do they report it to? They report it to the financial reporting center. So we do have an organization or a center that collects this data. So the data is there with regards to all this theft. Somewhere someone has this information that so and so on a certain day, deposited a huge amount of money. Now, the only thing is now going back to the earlier discussion from doctor Milton of you know what next, because we talk about this corruption Adnois, I'm constantly talking about. We all have these examples, but what do we do next with all this information? It's going to an organization like that financial reporting center.

Institutional Barriers to Transparency

And it's really kind of. They lie low because I think they know what they have and they don't want to ruffle feathers, but they do have all that information of all the money we complained about. So they have it. And we can use the, you know, the know your rights act or the Access to Information act, and go to the financial reporting, what do you call it? Financial Reporting center, and ask them to provide information on anything they've provided to the DCI or EACC, or any information they have on politicians making large amounts of deposits into their accounts.

Advocating for Access to Information

So, long story short, back to Doctor Milton's question earlier on. Yes, that information is there, but I think they bank on the fact that we do not know it's there, or we do not even know where to get this information, or how to even initiate a request for that kind of information to where you can see it. So when you have people like the governor of Nairobi suddenly walking in and owning this massive apartment complexes, that transaction, whether it's from him to a contractor back to him, or from the government to his account, that transaction is registered somewhere, and the FRC has that information.

Uncovering Financial Transactions

So it's just a matter of using, again, that know your rights act and going to the head of the FRC Financial reporting center and telling him to provide this information, and that's where the whole story lies. But as long as you know, the laws are created in such a way and they're layered to where you do not know where to start or where to go to get this information. They hide underneath that, but it's just veneer thing. If you scratch it, that whole bunch of information will be available to us. So that's all I had.

Summation of Governance Issues

Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. We are on the top of the hour. Before I give, I go to doctor Maju, I'll just give, Ndovu, are you there? Okay. Ndovu is not there. So we'll do our closing remarks. Westin, she. Silhou, are you there? For 1 minute. May I have the. Hi. Okay, I'll give you 1 minute. And we're almost on the. On the top of the hour. Thank you.

Governance Over Size

So it's not about size, it's not about many. It's about governance. And I think we have to focus on that. So if we go to a referendum to reduce these counties, I can tell you for free, the political elite will have their way. And what will they come up with? They'll come up with even more layers of bureaucracy, deputy prime ministers, I don't know how many vice presidents and what have you. Those are the things they'll come up with. They are not going to. They will actually mobilize along ethnic lines that you see, what you people, they want to take away your county to Rokana. Are you going to allow it? So you think people in Rokana will vote that Rokana ceases to exist? No, they will not. People in Lamu will vote that Lamu ceases to exist? No, they will note they won't. I can tell you for free. So they won't reduce, but they will come up with more layers and burden Kenyans. So this central government that is dysfunctional is the root cause of our problems. Dare them to go the federal way and see how it goes.

Marginalization and Corruption

Thank you for your presentation. And, yeah, for sure, marginalization remains a significant issue in Kenya, but it has now taken on a new form through a devolved corruption. I think that's what Bonnie was telling us. While devolution was meant to bring services closer to the people and also decentralized, it has also decentralized corruption, making it even more harder to root out. We know the core issues from the central government, but also there is a devolved corruption that has been going on. Thank you for your submission. Now we are at the top of the hour. Will give. Before I give the speakers their closing remark, I will give Doctor Maju to say a few in one or two minutes, and then we.

The Need for Accountability

Abhi, can I. Can I just say, can I just address the last comments? Okay, go ahead. Yeah. So, listen, I want to make sure that what I'm saying is not misconstrued for something different. Here's my point. I am not here to tell you that you don't need devolution. Devolution was well intended. The idea of devolution was to bring, I think 100% of people on this call will agree that the idea for devolution is to bring accountability, is to bring services and to bring development locally. If you don't have accountability and if you don't have development and you don't have services, devolution is nonsensical. Right. So if that is a goal, then we have to look at everything that's happening from that perspective. And so if that is the case, what I'm going to ask the individual that was speaking is look at what's happening right now, and you ask yourself whether the system as we set it up, is actually achieving that goal. And my submission is it's not.

Challenges in Governance

I'm just going to give, make a few points our system right now because of the fact that, number one, we've had politicians that insist on ridiculous compensation. So you couple over representation and then you couple that with over compensation, we are eating up most of the resources. So if you're eating up most of the resources, you're actually defeating the purpose of devolution. Because if I follow every shilling that we have as a country, and I chase that shilling to the last person, I am telling you that if you take one shilling, you're probably gonna have $0.15 ending up shopping someone. 85% is eaten up in the system. It's either stolen outright or it's paid out in ridiculous compensation and allowances, or it's spent on travel and other nonsense. So you can set up a system without and lose focus of the point of it. That's the first thing.

Assembly Effectiveness and Accountability

The second point I want to make sure that I mentioned is this. The individual talked about the fact that we should be looking at other African countries for as a matter of. I 100% disagree with that. I disagree with that. Tell me which country you wake up every day and say, you know what? That's who I want to become. Tell me which country you look at and say, that's who I want to be. Aspired to be. The reality is that our continent is full of, you know, countries that are struggling with governance. They are struggling with doing things that don't make sense for where they are. We took this system of government that we have right now from a, from places like the US. We did not ask ourselves, why did Texas decide that they needed to have this many people in their local parliament?

Local Governance Context

You cannot have a local assembly that does nothing. And so I ask you, tell me the value that the MCAs are creating in Lamu. Tell me the value that they are playing in Turkana. Tell me the value that the local assembly that's eating up ten to 15% of the budget is bringing the people of Isiolo. We need to have devolution, we need representation, but we don't need to have 47 semi-autonomous places where there is no economic activity. It doesn't make any sense. Even if this system was good, even if it was achieving other things, economically, it's not sustainable. Okay? So we can't just copy a system and say, we need mcas. What are they doing? I mean, if you just look at the way they're spending their time, it tells you if people are spending time in like every. Look at these budgets.

Political Accountability in Counties

People, every month they are subway, they are either in Singapore or they in Dubai or some other place. And again, I'm gonna challenge you. Whatever county you come from, tell me the five things that your local assembly brings in terms of value to you as a citizen. Let's start there. Okay. So we can't just do things without asking, are we. What are they actually doing, right? Are they serving anybody? Again, I 100% disagree that we need to look at Africa. I say we need to look at the countries that we see as matters of good governance, of, you know, economics are said. That's what we need to look at. And so I am not apologizing for looking at a place like the US, a place like Canada. I've lived in these countries. I know what it means to have a government that functions.

Setting Standards for Governance

And I want that for Kenya. I want you to walk into an office, you want to start a business and you walk in, they tell you need XYZ, bring that on Monday. And you walk out and you do not have to bribe anybody when you bid on a contract, right. They tell you these are the requirements and you bid on it and you win it. That's. That's what we want, right? We want a level playing field. We want a system that's not dominated by criminals. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Bonnie. We are on the top of the hour, I think. And you. Right. I think we said our democracy was once seen as the beacon of hope. I think the promise of equal opportunity, justice and progress.

Broken Promises and Accountability

But today it feels like that promise has been broken. The gap between the leaders and the people continues to grow as oplans and unchecked privileges have taken over. I think we have seen politicians living in Grande while millions of Kenyans are left grappling with the high cost of and sense of hopelessness. This is the truth. At the heart of this broken promise is corruption and bad governance. The two evils that have crippled our economy. Corruption has allowed leaders to enrich themselves at the expense of the people. Diverting funds meant for development and critical services into their own pockets. And mega scandals come and go. But justice is rarely served. This culture of impunity has ingrained those in power barely flinch them when acquisition service it is, though they believe they are untouchable.

Governance and Public Trust

I think corruption is only one side of the coin. As you say, always bad governance is the other. We have leaders who, rather than focusing on solving the country pressing issues, engage in poor decision making, lack of vision, consistently fail to deliver on the promises. Whether it is managing public resources, neglecting critical sectors like healthcare and education. I think they allow the economy to crumble under their watch. And bad governance is bleeding the country dry. This is the fact. It has led to poor infrastructure, underfunded public services and economies that serves the few who are leaving the majority to survive. What we are witnessing is a complete betrayal of the democratic ideals meant to uplift the ordinary mwana inchi.

The Burden of Leadership Disconnection

Instead, the government that works for the people. Who have leaders who seem more interested in maintaining their wealth and status quo and power. The opulence in our leadership has become a symbol of disconnected they are from the struggles of every Kenya. You know, this is the reality where the jobs that were promised weighs the affordable cost of living. We were told that around the corner is clear that the social contract between the government and its people have been broken. Having said that, I will hand over to our guest speaker, Doctor Milton. Before I go to Doctor Milton, I'll give Doctor Madhu two minutes for your closing remark.

Concerns About Leadership Effectiveness

Thank you, Abdi. Thank you very much, Abdi. Thank you very much. And I think for the sake of interests of all people, I think they are a very serious concern. Burning issues from. I speak that cheek. The. I don't know the cheek or what. So if I consult with the host, can you add us a minute so that we have these two hands considered? Then I make it then. Then Doctor Kundi, come up. Hello. Okay, okay. Our host has agreed with us. So let me have the cheek first. Because you can give the cheek then. I fear that west, you had a lot of points. Then I see if I can come up. Then we call our doctor Nyakundi to wrap it up.

Addressing Leadership Shortcomings

Thank you. Mine will be very brief. I hope you can hear me. Yes, we can hear you loud and clear. Thank you very much. Mine is very brief because my observation is that we elect leaders who have no clue about how to govern, how to lead. So, for example, if you look at all the governors that we have currently, they have no idea what they're doing in their counties. They keep making all these trips abroad in the name of going for these leadership workshops and training. Yet when they were elected, when they were campaigning, they didn't actually say that they didn't know how to govern or how to lead their counties. I'm quite intrigued to find out what this leadership courses they are making trips to Dubai and New York, it's all about. Because when they come back after attending this training, we don't see any impact on what they gain as far as this training is concerned.

Fund Allocation and Accountability

And a lot of money is being spent. MCA is going on these workshops in Dubai, in New York, in Turkey, South Africa and Mombasa. I think that's where money is being stolen through this dubious training. And then there is no accountability in terms of in the county. The senators are not checking why the governors are making these trips, why are these trips necessary? And then the other thing is that when we hear that money is being stolen, this money is being hidden in accounts abroad. And these trips that are being made are probably trips where people are taking money to go and bank or buy properties abroad. So I think we need to raise, you know, the bar in terms of how accountability, in terms of the governance, quality of governance in the country, especially in the counties, because I don't think counties are necessary as far as I'm concerned now because, you know, just money is just being sent there to pay such and then the rest of the money is just being stolen.

Elected Officials and Their Responsibilities

So my main concern is about these leadership trips that are being made by all leaders, even parliamentarians keep going all over the world. You hear the speaker of the National Assemblies all over the world, traveling senators, MP's, you know, these leaders, we elect them to lead and to, you know, oversight, but they always grope trotting. They're just moving around just to get money and to steal from us. So that's my concern. And thank you very much for giving me a chance to air my, you know, my two cent of what I feel. Thank you. Thank you. We'll give Pia 1 minute and Westin 1 minute and then we do the closing remark.

Root Cause Analysis in Governance

Thank you for this opportunity. I want to discuss the root cause analysis of problems in Kenya. I've seen people looking at the symptoms, or what do we call it, like for example, those strips. I don't think the problem is the trips. I think the problem is what they go and do there, which somebody has mentioned. Maybe some go and go to bank the money. So it's on or the governor rewards it, the MCA with a trip somewhere. But if you look like, for example, I like using the reference of this one of these people called Bruce Bueno. Bruce Bueno who did a YDE, did a book called the Dictators Handbook why bad behavior is good politics. Because like Kawira Mwangazi is facing a lot of problems because of the not managing politics. And one thing for a country to move forward you must manage the politics and get it right before now you start doing the development.

Education Model and Future Direction

Because this politics sometimes, even if you appoint every community but those people don't feel like they are politically represented, they will feel like that's a stooge of that community. That's one of the problems. Now we come to, for example, people are complaining about this university model, funding model. They haven't gone to the root cause. Before this university model came in, private universities used to charge less than what are currently being charged in public universities and go to the root cause. The universities were like insolvent, were almost becoming insolvent technical. There are a lot of debts. For the past seven years Igatun university has been paying 40% of the salary. Other universities have not been remitting the statutory deductions. So.

Effect of Governance on Voter Expectation

And when there was a situation in Masai Mara University where there was a whistleblower Kenyan kept quiet. Now if you see that problem, it starts at the education institution where now people are being trained, now we have substandard education there and that is the outcome. And now we come to the voters. Everybody looks at the politician for the solution of everything. People don't see the. It seems most of you maybe live in urban areas, but if you go to the rural areas, the MCA, when there is a road, when there is a problem, all those things, they don't go to the CECM or anybody, they go to the MC. Why we elected you, why is this road? This. So they have to lobby.

Local Representatives and Accountability

You can't, you can't, you might not be. Maybe these urban people might not be interacting with those people, but in those rural areas they get pushed a lot. Recently there was an MCA who got stuck in the mud and was being pushed. And those MCAs, they have to lobby. And while lobbying at it, while lobbying they have to be in good terms with the governor so that they receive, to receive. So that's why they are. There are conflicts there sometimes conflict between the governor and. And the MCA. Another thing is that our election, our political process of electing governors and MP is very expensive. There was a research conducted that said that to vie for a governor outside Nairobi, you need at least 120 million shillings.

Election Economics and Leadership

And to be Nairobi, you need around 500 million shillings. If you see the salary of those governors, even if you give 2 million per month, I'm sure that will be 120 million shillings. And they would. They don't, they don't do it for charity. So our election system is so corrupt. And from the citizens corrupt. Everybody is corrupt. So as we deal with this, let's go to the root cause analysis and understand the system. Why is it this way? Then. Then we react to it. Because now I see now people, when people talk about, it's like they are campaigning against Ruto instead of finding the solution itself.

Final Thoughts on Leadership and Accountability

Thank you. Thank you, Pierre. So I'll give 1 minute to Westin, and then we go to our guest speakers. Thank you. Okay. I think Westin cannot hear. Doctor Majuh, you want to give a final comment? Thank you very much. And I'm very sorry I joined this thing late and it's a bit much interesting. I'm regretting when you talk of we arrived to the end of ours. Let me appreciate every. But this one goes direct to Bori the realize. Someone was calling. If you can hear me, please just give me hundred so that I continue. Okay. Yeah, we can hear you loud and clear. Go ahead.

Reflections on Leadership Development

Okay. I think mcas are very. Okay, doctor Maju, we have trouble hearing you. So. Okay. So. Okay. We'll just go to our closing remarks. Thank you, doctor Nyakunde. Go ahead. For your closing remark. Yes, I can hear you. And thank you very much for this discourse. I think it has been one of the best that we've had in terms of how the issues have come up. Much protected as the national parliament. So you can hang around there and wait for your answer. Okay. To ask him when there is a problem. So I think that's another way. And you can't say that.

Insight on Reflections and Solutions

Doctor Maju. Okay. Because we lost him. Okay. We lost Doctor Maju. Okay. So my point, I think, in making my closing remarks, first of all, I want to appreciate that this has been a very insightful discussion and very enriching from a personal point of view, in terms of the ideas that are coming through. But in my closing remarks, I want to say three things. Number one, there is no question that our devolution structure has been misunderstood. And the governance, the bad governance issue and the corruption make it look awfully bad in terms of how the lack of services has been inherent upon the Kenyan people who wanted evolution.

Evaluating Governance Structures

So I appreciate where those who feel like we need the countries as they are, but I honestly don't think that we need to maintain them in the current structure because the whole idea has been lost. And most importantly, I think what Doctor Bonnie is, what Bonnie is talking about is the fact that we need to look at the economic viability of the delineation of those countries and the economic viability. If you have an area where devolution that those countries, the resources will go down so that their economic viability can be unlocked. But then that has not been the case. So we need to ask ourselves, do we continue putting money into the hole and still expect that we will get a different outcome? That is what we are called upon to do.

Rethinking Governance and Development

And in my view, I think we would need to review the structure of evolution and perhaps have regional governments where you can have the revenue structure making sense. And once you have that sorted out, we can then have retain the counties as they are, as administrative structures for purposes of service delivery and unlocking the economic potential of those units as they were. But in terms of adopting the model that we intended to adopt when we did this structure of government, we have lost it and we have to retweak it so that it makes sense, so that revenue can be collected. But most importantly, the economic viability of the region can be unlocked. That is what we need to do.

Engagement and Collective Action

And that is how the people can feel. That is how job creation can make sense. And that is how all these things that we are talking about can be practical in the eyes of the people. That said, I want to deal with the second point I want to make. Number one, when Zalando spoke about presenting petitions to the authorities, now, presenting petitions to authorities is a good thing and it is intended in a system where governance is good and everything works. It is intended that those petitions will be acted upon administratively by those in leadership. That is not the case, unfortunately for our system. And so when we present those petitions, they should not be an end by itself.

Activism and Legal Action

That is a good move. It keeps the pressure by having people on the streets. And like I said, we must give activism the legitimacy of the rule of law, by making sure that we cushion those activist programs that we have, like mandamano, and presenting of petitions with solid legal declarations like court orders and I, opinions and interpretation statements from courts of competent jurisdiction. So above and beyond presenting a petition to the CS or office of the President or whoever or whatever office we are talking about, we now need to graduate those petitions into motions that carry legal motions in competent courts of competent jurisdiction and tribunals, both locally and at the regional, continental and international level, where then we can have declarations and orders or directions by way of even injunctions and conservatory orders that stop the implementation and execution of those agreements that are contrary to the will of the people.

Legal Actions and Public Engagement

If we are able to do that, then we would achieve a lot more from those petitions other than what is likely to end up as something that the president will put there, they will not act on it. The agreement, the Adani deal, will go on. And next time, by the time you're moving to court, you are told this is time bad, overtaken by events, and therefore you begin chasing what you already had full control of. So, Mzalendo, if there is no petition before the high court, by dint of a swan, article 22 and 23 of the Constitution, and article three of the constitution, we need to have that filed as soon as possible so that we can be able to deal with it. Public interest litigation is a right that the people of Kenya have given themselves and we need to exercise that.

Mobilization and Engagement for Change

And I want to tell you that the more the merrier, the more people we have as parties in this, then the better it is going to be. And along the same lines of petitions, let us also look at doing online petitions and attaching them as evidence of agitation by the people and the lack of public participation thereof, because those are principles that can be, that the people need to invoke in being able to get their grievances heard. Now, I want to speak to my last point, which is that as we talk about this corruption and expose the bad governance that we are talking about, we need to ask ourselves, what exactly are we doing to make sure that those in office and when we.

Action for Accountability

Sorry, I, I'm a bit distracted, but that we are able to take action. So the action I'm calling upon us to do is please reach out to me, please follow us. Because unlike what you will get with other media houses, what we are telling our people is that if you tell us something, if you give us information and we publish it on our space, we go beyond that and institute petitions to authorities and move the court substantively by saying, this is what is happening, this is the basis of the action that we have taken. And we want the public authorities to take action where they don't take action. Then we move the courts and we obtain orders.

Engagement and Collaboration for Change

And I'm able to do that. We are able to do that. And we are willing to work with anybody that is willing to also come out and help us, because the work is a lot like the biblical analogy goes. We want to have many people, we want to encourage many people to join the fight and move it from merely speaking from the rooftop to speaking way it matters, and immobilizing corruption and making it impossible for the corrupt to operate, making it impossible for the likes of William Ruto and his people by who are sending their apologies to platforms like this, to be able to tell us that we should be calling out William Ruto and his ilk for the ineptitude and the incompetence that they have demonstrated.

Resisting Corruption and Advocating for Change

We must be able to resist that temptation. We must be able to stand up and say, hey, yes, we are not just going to do Mandamano. We are also going to meet you in courts. We are going to meet you in places where you do not expect us, I think, by so doing and, you know, doing the civic education. We have Morara doing his bit, we have Hillary doing his bit, we have Bonnie doing his bit, we have Oki Omtata. And all of us are working towards one thing, making sure that we reclaim our motherland. We are not going to allow people to sit back and just talk, because what they are telling people is our people will get tired, so they allow us to run our time and then they continue with their looting spree.

Call to Unity and Action

That is what I am calling upon all of us. It is a uncertain effort. We are not in competition. We are all doing this because we love our country. And I'm sure everybody else who's in the diaspora where you're being told that people are going to diaspora, the reason they're making education expensive is because they want that the few people who are educated, then they are frustrated to seek greener pastures abroad. That is why the president stands and says they are creating jobs abroad. No, we want jobs back home. So let us keep talking. Let us keep the fight. If you have information, once again, please share it with us.

Alliance for Change

Under the auspices of the Kenya Diaspora Alliance, USA and Kurunzi news and in my personal capacity as Milton Yakundi, we will be able to put our heads together, caucus, and be able to continue with the fight and hold those pretenders. By the way, somebody doesn't become a leader by merely stealing an election and being a holder of an office. Leadership has specific traits and qualities that must be looked at. And I do not merely call somebody a leader just because they are a member of parliament. We must continue to hold them accountable. We must continue with a fight and we must make sure that only people with the qualities of leadership ascend to leadership when a vacancy occurs.

Perseverance in Advocacy

But before those vacancies are there, we must continue with our activism and we must give it value. We must make it solid enough and have impactful by making sure that we spread it out and speak where it matters and where we can have those substantive declarations and orders, including the courts, locally, continentally and beyond, even at the international level. Thank you very much. And feel free to engage with me on the sidelines, dm me, reach out to me and we can be able to help each other in pushing the narrative and the agenda so that we can reclaim our country.

Final Remarks on Governance

And may God bless all of you. God bless our country. God bless. Thank you. Thank you, Bonnie. Doctor Milton, final remark for Bonnie. Thank you. Yes, loud and clear. I appreciate it. So I just want to close by saying the following. I think if we all try to use a common sense, try to apply business sense into our politics, we are going to better served. And what I mean is this, most of our problems can be solved by just looking at the fact pattern and asking yourself, what does common sense tell you to do? Right? So if we asking ourselves whether we need 47 semi autonomous governments in the country, then we have to look at the facts and ask ourselves, what does common sense tell us we need to do?

Addressing Debt Challenges

So if I told you, for example, that your country is in debt, right? I opened my commentary here by telling you that we are spending 60% of our revenues to pay interest. So we only have 40% left. We need to send 15% to the county government. We need to pay our soldiers or police teachers. We have not even talked about development. We've lost 60% of our money to interest. What does common sense tell you that you need to do? You need to make changes, because otherwise you're going to be digging deeper into this problem. Common sense tells us we need to change. That's the first thing, right? It's clear.

Evaluating the Current Governance Model

I think 99% of people agree that, okay, we talked about do we need 47 counties? I think that most people, if I call everybody here and I say to you, let's look at the fact that you cannot have 47 semi autonomous governments where a governor can decide that our budget for this year is going to be 20 billion. If there is no ability, or in other words, if that ambition is not tied to the economic reality of a jurisdiction. So if I say I'm the governor of Isiolo and my budget next year is going to be 35 billion, but I can only raise 150 million locally. It's just, it's, it's nonsensical.

Economic Sustainability of Governance

It doesn't make sense. How can you aspire to spend 35 billion if you can only raise 150 million locally? It doesn't make sense if you. Most people don't know this. If you look at our 47 counties in our country, zero are able to support themselves without opening their hand and asking for a handout. Zero. The country that supports. So the country that supports itself the most is Nairobi county, and it funds itself around 30%. 70% comes from somewhere else. And that's the most vibrant county in our country. The average county is only supporting itself up to 6% of its.

Exploring Financial Understanding in Counties

Its cost, the cost of running that county government. So think about that. Most of the counties, if you take all the counties and you average them out, they can only support themselves for up to 6%. That's almost like two weeks. So if you take, you know, like, if your count and you say, you know what, support yourself, and then when your money runs out, call me two weeks later, they're going to be calling you and say, need help? That is not sustainable. It doesn't make any sense. Common sense tells you that is not sustainable. So again, let's use common sense.

Rethinking Cost of Leadership

The last point I want to make is this one individual state that the issue is not trips abroad. Well, I disagree with that because if, you know, if you have a job, right, you apply for a job and there is, you know, a list of qualifications that are required, and you come and say, this is what I've done in the past. This is my education, you know, background, this is what I've done. I meet the requirements for this job. These people, when you listen to them with their campaign, they tell you that they're most qualified for these jobs. If that is the case, common sense will tell you that it doesn't make sense for someone to come in and then every other month they are running from Singapore to Dubai to Switzerland.

Wrapping Up Insights and Governance

What is the point? If you tell me that you qualify for a job, I should not have to spend, you know, a crazy amount of money for you to run around from one time to the next, apparently getting training. It doesn't make sense. Common sense tells you it doesn't make sense. So let's try to use common sense. And I think if we do that, it's going to serve us better. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Bonnie. As we bring this insightful conversation to a yemenite, I think it is clear that corruption and bad governance continue to some of the greatest challenges facing Kenya.

Urgent Call for Accountability

The need for accountability has never been more urgent. But today, discussion has remained at us that while the issues are systemic, the solution lies in the collective power of the engaged citizenry, strong institutions and bold leadership willing to make a difficult choices for the sake of this nation. It's up to each of us to continue pushing for transparency, reforms and justice. I think let's not allow this conversation to end here. Instead, let's fuel it to a movement for change. We owe it to the future generation. Leave them a Kenya that is more just, equitable and accountable.

Closing Remarks and Appreciation

Thank you all for your participation, insights and passion. Let's keep the dialogue alive. Continue to hold those in power accountable. Thank you to our guest speakers, Bonnie and Doctor Milton, always, it's a pleasure having you over. To you, Hilary, for closing. Yeah. Thank you so much, Abdi. Thank you so much, Bonnie, Doctor Milton, always our listeners, we thank you so much for finding time to join us in pressure point and giving more information. I want to sincerely say that Bonnie and Milton, they are every and we are trying to build the pressure point.

Persistence in Information Sharing

We see how we can give people information about what is happening in our country. Keep it alive all the time and every Sunday we are here. I know there are a lot of fights today. There were two spaces running Co. They were just planned in between the week to distract us. But we'll never stop. We'll move ahead and we'll give more information as much as we can. And even our speakers that we invited, some didn't appear because they were also called. We have a lot of information. So there's a lot of things that are going on, guys, let us keep alive all the time.

Call for Unity and Forward Motion

Let us share the ideas that we have to build our country and to make things strong. We are here to give correct information. I see some quack guys writing here, Bonnie, giving a wrong information. I want to tell you that we know that you are being paid. Go ahead and do whatever you can do, but we'll never stop. And we are not afraid of anything. Giving a lot of information about our country otherwise. Thank you so much, guys, and more. So sincerely, Abdi, thank you so much for running the show today and all the time.

Gratitude and Final Thoughts

Every Sunday. Keep it alive. All more information is coming up, guys. A blessed night. Have blessed day, a blessed morning, wherever you are.