Space Summary
The Twitter Space Cozy Book Nook Podcast with Jeanne Roland, Lily Lawson, & J.C. Paulson hosted by jgmacleodauthor. Step into the inviting world of RomanceBooks with Jeanne Roland, Lily Lawson, & J.C. Paulson on the Cozy Book Nook Podcast. Dive into cozy conversations, heartwarming discussions, and love-filled moments in a welcoming atmosphere. This podcast offers a retreat for romance book enthusiasts to connect, share book recommendations, and savor the beauty of happy endings. Join the hosts in exploring the charm of love stories, creating a safe space for genuine connections and community building within the romance genre. Embrace the warmth, laughter, and joy that the Cozy Book Nook Podcast brings, making it a must-listen for anyone seeking a cozy escape into the world of RomanceBooks.
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Space Statistics
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Questions
Q: Who are the hosts of the Cozy Book Nook Podcast?
A: Jeanne Roland, Lily Lawson, & J.C. Paulson are the hosts bringing warmth and engaging discussions about RomanceBooks.
Q: What is the main focus of the podcast?
A: The podcast centers around creating a cozy space for book lovers to enjoy heartwarming moments and conversations around RomanceBooks.
Q: What atmosphere does the Cozy Book Nook Podcast aim to provide?
A: The podcast aims to offer a welcoming, inclusive atmosphere where listeners can immerse themselves in love stories and uplifting narratives.
Q: How do the hosts contribute to the podcast's charm?
A: The hosts infuse the podcast with passion, laughter, and relatable experiences, creating a warm and inviting environment for romance book enthusiasts.
Q: What experience can listeners expect from the Cozy Book Nook Podcast?
A: Listeners can expect cozy vibes, book recommendations, heart-to-heart discussions, and a sense of belonging within the romance book community.
Q: What emotions does the Cozy Book Nook Podcast seek to evoke?
A: The podcast strives to spread happiness, inspire moments of joy, and foster genuine connections among listeners through shared love for RomanceBooks.
Q: How does the podcast create a sense of community?
A: By offering a safe, inviting space and encouraging open conversations, the podcast helps listeners escape into the world of love stories together.
Q: What distinguishes the Cozy Book Nook Podcast in the RomanceBooks genre?
A: The podcast stands out for its cozy atmosphere, engaging hosts, and its dedication to creating a comforting retreat for listeners.
Q: What is the ultimate goal of the Cozy Book Nook Podcast?
A: The podcast's goal is to provide a sanctuary for book lovers to unwind, connect, and savor the enchanting world of RomanceBooks.
Q: How does the Cozy Book Nook Podcast contribute to the romance book community?
A: By fostering genuine connections, sharing book recommendations, and spreading love for happy endings, the podcast enriches the romance book community.
Q: What makes the Cozy Book Nook Podcast a valuable listening experience for romance enthusiasts?
A: The podcast offers a blend of warmth, intimacy, and shared love for RomanceBooks, making it a must-listen for anyone passionate about love stories.
Highlights
Time: 07:15:29
Warmth and Engagement in RomanceBooks Exploring the charm of engaging discussions and heartwarming moments around love stories.
Time: 09:05:17
Creating Cozy Book Recommendations Delving into recommended reads and cozy suggestions for romance book enthusiasts.
Time: 11:15:40
Community Connections Through RomanceBooks Fostering a sense of community, warmth, and shared passion within the romance book genre.
Key Takeaways
- The podcast features Jeanne Roland, Lily Lawson, & J.C. Paulson discussing RomanceBooks and creating a welcoming atmosphere.
- The hosts share love for happy endings, engaging discussions, and heartwarming moments during the podcast.
- Listeners can expect cozy vibes, book recommendations, and intimate conversations about RomanceBooks.
- The guests bring unique perspectives, delightful banter, and shared enthusiasm for the romance genre to the podcast.
- The Cozy Book Nook Podcast emphasizes creating a warm, inviting space for book lovers to indulge in love stories and uplifting narratives.
- Jeanne Roland, Lily Lawson, & J.C. Paulson infuse the podcast with passion, laughter, and relatable experiences around RomanceBooks.
- The podcast aims to spread happiness, inspire moments of joy, and foster a sense of community among romance book enthusiasts.
- Listeners can enjoy genuine connections, heart-to-heart discussions, and a sense of belonging through the Cozy Book Nook Podcast.
- The hosts cultivate a safe, inclusive environment where listeners can escape into the world of love stories and shared passion for RomanceBooks.
- The Cozy Book Nook Podcast offers a comforting retreat for listeners to unwind, connect, and celebrate the beauty of RomanceBooks.
Behind the Mic
Initial Sound Check
It. All right. Just want to test that you can hear me. Let me know. I can hear. Yes, it's perfect. Good. Wonderful. Sounds good. Joe. Hello, Joe. Great. Thank you. I can hear you too, Lily. So far so good. Laban, I sent you the co host, even though you're the host. I've sent it though. Hey, Jen. Hi, everybody. How are you doing today? Good. It sounds nice and clear. Fantastic. Oh, it's different for the first time today, isn't it? Yes, it's very clear. There's no, like, that feedback sound at all. It's perfect. Okay, great. Good stuff. Maybe you can send me the cohost invitation. So I've sent it about three times now. I'm not sure what else to do. Can you check and see, Laban, because I've clicked invite co host and clicked your name and sent the invite about three times now. So just double check.
Technical Difficulties
Okay. No, it's not showing up. I'll just keep checking. How's everybody doing today? JC, Lily and everybody who's logged on? I'm. I'm doing okay. Levin. I've. We had a little issue on Saturday with my doorbell going and my phone going, so I've been. So I've had to turn. I've actually. I've been reminded today to turn off to put my diploma do not disturb. So hopefully we won't have any strange noises. And I've got a sign on my door saying, please don't ring the doorbell. So hopefully we shouldn't have some strange. Any strange noises on this recording from my house. Well, this is a very special day for you. You would need any of that? Yes, I can kind of do without it and I'm sure everybody else can, too. It's been quite a moment. I mean, we've postponed this. We were to come a bit earlier because of Jen being on here tonight. You prefer to be here today. So we really privileged to have you back again, JC.
Getting Started with the Topic
We got Katherine and all the rest were joining us today. It's nice and clear for the first time. I can't believe it. Like, I can hear you. The clearest I've ever heard you. It's really nice. I have sent the invite again. I don't know why it's not working. I'm not as familiar using the phone when I'm just a listener, I use my computer. So I have clicked on it. It says that it's gone through on yours. Are you able to go down to the bottom and see if it shows invites? No, it usually just shows up here just below where everybody is. It just pops up there. I'm able to click it and, you know, kind of turn it on. I'm not seeing that now. Yeah. So when I go, it says, co host invite. I've clicked you, and it seems like it goes through. So I'm not sure why it isn't. But regardless, we can hear you, and it's your show, so it'll all be good.
Addressing Echo Issues
I think I'm just waiting for Jean. I don't know if anybody else is hearing this, but when Jen finished speaking, I heard what she said. Echo through somebody's computer or phone. Yes. And that's what happens if you don't mute while someone else is speaking. So if everyone. When someone's talking, if you make sure that you mute, we shouldn't get that. No, no, that was me. I was trying to check if it's gonna come through the phone, which it didn't. I'm just looking for that invite. That's what it is. Okay. We just have another minute or so, and then Laban's going to start us off. Thanks for everybody for joining us. Absolutely. Jean, do you want to just quickly test your mic? Sure. I'm here. Can you all hear me? Perfect. No problems. Maya and Jane. It's exactly 12:00, and I will kick off with the hook.
Starting the Broadcast
I'll begin with a shocking statistic. Did you know that 80% of authors sell fewer than 50,000 book copies in their lifetime? Can you believe that? Did you also know that 90% of authors earn less than $1,000 per year from their books? But just wait a minute. The music industry might seem larger than the book industry. At first glance, that's what everybody would be thinking about, down to some statistics. In 2022, the global music industry made $42.5 billion. Now, in 2023, the global box office met 29 billion. Yet the book industry is bigger, at about 98 billion. That's as last year. So, how can authors, writers be a part of this industry and improve our earnings effectively and change this narrative? Well, I mean, having a podcast on book promotion is one avenue where authors are thirsty for book promotion ideas.
Discussing Effective Promotion Strategies
So, for example, you publish your ebook on Kindle at a price, let's give it 9.99 to make about $7. Now, depending on how much you sell the paperback, you may make another. You may make about $7. So let's put the figure about $7. And now you start working with a figure of, how do I get 100 cells in a month? Yeah. So with seven bags with 100 cells, that's about $700 a month one book. Now, if you have a couple of books, we're talking about 1400. If it's three, four, you know, five. Like that, it's incremental. So you can imagine if you work out, because a lot of times we do things which take a lot of our time and we don't have tangible benefits. Well, if you do effective book promotion on your book, it should not be very difficult to get those hundred cells, and you'll be talking about a figure of $700 a month.
Exploring New Income Streams
Now, there are other things you can also do to explore multiple income streams beyond book sales. One of them is participating in book workshops and speaking, public speaking. This is where you do things like speaking engagement and, you know, participating in workshop. This can generate significant income, which is additional to say you're making that $700 if you just publish a book, 1400 if it's a couple. If you have five books, you're talking about 300,500. In addition to what you'll be making of public speaking workshops, you can also go the online courses way and ebooks, creating and selling these courses online. Depending on your nature of area and expertise, this can be quite a profitable bench venture. Then the other things you can do, consulting, coaching and those kind of things.
Leveraging Digital Platforms
Then the other thing, you know, you can think about is leveraging on the digital platforms. And this is where you utilize social media effectively. You know, kind of build a loyal branding and create a lot of followers who are loyal. And you know, that way you can help promote books. Again, we live in an era of attention deficit disorder, so more people prefer audiobooks than the hard copies, then this is an avenue to produce audiobooks. And this can give you the audio market and provide another avenue for listeners who like to listen as they go to work. Well, working at home, cooking, doing laundry and all those kind of things. And then the other one, which is important, is building a strong author presence.
Importance of a Strong Author Presence
And we've talked about this consistently, which involves having professional book covers, a good social media profile that will also include, you know, coming up with a good authorization page on Amazon. And then the other thing is very important, engaging with other readers. This is where you respond to comments of exclusive content and you regularly go through your communication. And then there's networking and collaborations. This is basically just working with other authors, industry professionals and influencers that can really expand your reach and opportunities. Lots of good takeaways there Laban if you want to do our intro and then we can get to our guests. That'd be awesome. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Warm Welcome and Purpose of the Broadcast
Hello. Welcome to this week's broadcast of the Cozy Booth Nuke, an expert's weekly writers talk show about book promotion and developing your author and writer platform. I'm your host, Laban. Team Balolo Esquire are inspired by Laban and our special guest co host is JG Jane McLeod. At Jane McLeod, author Christina Gabelle Love Golden Hat is not here today with us. She's traveled to South America for holiday. We developed the Cozy Book note two sports the book promotion site. Writing your book deserves the best representation and promotion. Let's commit to promoting our books or other platforms every week. This kind of leads into the purpose of the show as well and just how busy our lives can be, and how hard it can be as writers to try to fit in, marketing our books and focus on that when life can be chaotic and we have so many other responsibilities.
Discussion on Balancing Writing with Marketing
So hopefully today people will share some insight, our guests, and if anyone else has questions to pop into the chat too, that we can get to just to discuss how to kind of balance all that and how to make this successful there. It's usually a lot of work and creating a balance, like you say, it's very important. Yeah. It's not just about book promotions and leaving other things to transform also is quite important. So I think I'll let you go ahead with this week's topic. That sounds great. Thanks a lot. We've actually invited a guest on who has a lot of experience, you know, both pros and cons. She's going to share with you, but let's introduce Jean Rowland.
Introducing the Guest Speaker
So the topic that were just mentioning about balance and that she can speak to that Jean writes light hearted romantic adventures. She's busy editing the final book in her Archers of St. Sebastian series. She's a lover of all things dramatic, which is fortunate because she lives with her greek husband, teenage twins, and a bernese mountain dog named after the late, great italian tenor Franco Corelli. I thought Jean would be the perfect guest today just to talk about the challenges of marketing, something that doesn't seem to fit the market. Often. Indie authors talk about this a lot, how we have mashups of genres and books that just don't do what trad books tend to do. And this can be challenging. And I thought it'd be great for Jean to speak to any advice or anything that she can share about that topic.
Welcoming Jean and Her Insights
Welcome, Jean. Hi, Jen. Thanks so much for inviting me. I'll preface my comments by saying I'm a huge talker, so if I'm going on too long, please don't hesitate to jump in, cut me off, etcetera. But I also want to say I'm definitely not an expert at marketing. I don't have all of the answers, or even very many of them, but I thought I could just talk about my experience and see if there's anything useful in there for people. So just a little background. I sort of fell into writing as a hobby. Something escapist to do to entertain myself. I wasn't even thinking about publishing. How that all happened is a long story for another day. But once you start publishing and marketing, then you do have to think of your book as a product.
Facing the Challenge of Defining a Book
So a lot of my issues came right away when I had to upload to Amazon, stick my book on some shelf, a whole bunch of labels that didn't really fit it. I felt like my book fell under a lot of different categories, but lacked one crucial element for each one that people would be going to. I didn't even know. I still don't know if my books are really a young adult or adult. And it turned out I had written a really long book, something I didn't realize when I was writing it. So I had this really long book, hard to define, hard to categorize on my hand, what to do with it. So early on, I knew I had two choices. I could change the book before publishing it to make it more marketable. And I just couldn't bring myself to do that.
Managing Expectations in Marketing
So the first thing is, I felt like I had to accept that being inflexible about my actual book meant I had to be realistic about my expectations. I do think managing expectations is a huge part of marketing, knowing what success means to you. I don't think we're all after the same things. We're not all doing the same things. I'm not actually concerned about making money. I mean, that would be great. I don't want to lose money, but I just want to find more readers. So if you're listening to me thinking that you're going to figure out how to sell 100 books a month of one book, that's not going to happen. But I do think that there are readers out there for every book. You know, it's just a matter of letting your audience know your book exists, that your book is for them.
Turning Negatives into Positives
So I decided to try to turn some of the potential negatives of my book into positives. I figured that one good thing about indie books is that where we do have things that are original, that are different, that are fresh and I do think that there are people who are looking for that. Indie authors is where people go when they're looking for books that kind of defy market trends. So the key is, how do you figure out how to let people know that your book has those original elements? So basically what I did is I tried a whole bunch of different things, just tried everything you can think of and kept in mind that nothing's going to work forever.
Experimenting with Various Strategies
You find something that works for a while and then you have to just keep doing it. The first thing I did was that I decided that my book was going to be in exclusive to Amazon, beyond Kindle Unlimited. For me, this was a good option because the books are long. They're, they are hard to define. People weren't sure what they were getting. It allowed people who weren't sure if they were going to like the book to give it a try. You know, oh, I'll try something different. I'll try something strange, something that looks different and original. And then if they did read it, because it's long, you know, I ended up making more from Ku than from a purchase of the book, actually every month.
Decisions Made for Greater Visibility
Even though usually my sales and the consumption of my books on KU is about equal, I make a lot more from KU each month. So that was one decision that I made. I think that's a good one for unknown authors to start getting some visibility. You can always choose to go wide later. Then I also, at the beginning, signed up for some paid blog tours, which was great for getting some, you know, initial visibility. And then I also stepped away outside my comfort zone and got on social media. I didn't actually have any social media at all, not even Facebook before I started publishing. But I read somewhere I had to get over myself about social media.
Utilizing Social Media for Promotion
So I did, and I started a Facebook author page and I did try running ads there, which were good. They did help. I do think that my audience is there, but, you know, they ended up being too expensive to be very profitable for me. But I did do that to start getting some readers in the first place. I did paid newsletter promotions, bargain booksee, fussy librarian, hello books, a whole slew of other ones. And those all work really well the first time. But then after a while, they start not paying off and again, you still have to slot them into a certain category, which can be challenging.
Investing in Marketing Tools
So one of the other things I've done is invested in canva. I make a lot of visuals to share on X. You know, I try to support other authors by reposting their books. Since we all want visibility, I participate in a lot of prompt events like fantasy indies.
Monthly Thrills Prompts
You know, the monthly thrills prompts. I make graphics for them, post snippets. Because I do think this is a way to help make what's unique about your book show up. I stress the things that I think are actually different off market in those posts. I do review clips. You know, I think that when you're posting on X, you need to use short snippets, things that people can take in at a glance in an easy to read font. You know, stress things that, you know, the originality of your book, the ways that it actually defies genre, because those are where you're going to find the people who are actually interested in the kind of book that you write. Let's see, what else have I done? Something that I've done that's a little different, that I really recommend if it works for you, because I'm writing a continuous series.
Engaging Readership
What I did is in the back of each book, I put a link to my website where people can request a complimentary copy of the first chapter of the next book. Then I reply to all of those requests personally. I invite people who have requested to join my author page on Facebook. And although maybe this isn't leading to a lot more sales, it is a way to keep your readership engaged. And a lot of these people have written me really lovely comments that I would not have known about otherwise because so few people review. And it's really been a lovely way to get some feedback that's encouraging. So I guess I'll try to stop there and see if you have questions. Jen, that's sort of try everything. Lean into the things that make your book unmarketable. Those are actually the things that make it appeal to a certain niche.
Using Ads and Marketing Strategies
Oh, also, I guess I do want to say I have started doing ads on X because although posting in the writing community is great and it's great to have authors see your posts, you really want to try to break out and have readers see your posts. And so I have started doing paid advertisements on X also to try to break out of the small niche of other writers. Thank you very much, Jane, for sharing that offer. Journey. Very important journey. Just a quick question. Can you take us through the COVID design and interior layout process and how can new authors do it effectively? Well, I would say don't do what I did. First of all, for interior design. The thing that I have done that I would highly recommend, if you can afford the initial layout, is I invested in vellum a program that runs on Mac that formats your book for you.
Designing and Cover Challenges
It was, you know, I am not a tech person at all, but I learned how to use it entirely by looking, you know, at YouTube videos. And it's very intuitive and easy and it creates beautiful interiors, you know, for paperbacks and for ebooks. And I would highly recommend that. That meant I didn't have to ask, you know, someone else to format it. I didn't have to figure out how to format in word. You can insert pictures, images. I really recommend it. So that's what I've done for interior. It costs something to get it in the first place, something like $300, but then you don't have to pay again. So it's an investment for your entire writing career. So that's my interior for the COVID It's a long story. I won't bore you with, but know it's important to have a good cover.
Experiences with Cover Design
And I knew the importance of having a professional cover, so I did, you know, try to do my research and ask for a professional cover from, you know, something that seemed like a reputable place. And I just did not like the result. I was not happy with it. I didn't feel like I had a good experience. I felt perhaps wrongly, you know, I was young and new to this, but I felt that I was being taken advantage of as a nobody, that the, you know, I didn't have any clout that I would just pay for anything. And so I was not happy with the result. I felt like I don't know how to find somebody that will be good. So I'm just going to design the COVID for myself.
Self-Designed Cover Attempts
I designed my own cover on canva. I used open access art from museums for the COVID So I just designed my own. Do not do as I do because it is not on genre. It does not fit any genre at all, and it certainly doesn't fit young adult, which is how I perhaps wrongly, have chosen to slot my book. But on the other hand, it is very unique. So I think it draws some attention, too. So it's kind of a, you know, a plus and minus. But ironically, because I've used a painting that fits theme of my book, it is a painting that Amazon and Facebook both think is too sexy. Ironically, since it's a work of great neoclassical art and it's meant that I can't run ads on Amazon.
Concluding Thoughts on Marketing
So if you want to be successful, look at the books in the genre that you are going to publish in. See what they do for their covers. Make sure that your image is something that is not going to offend Amazon or Facebook and do everything opposite to the way I did it on my cover. That's my advice. Excellent. Excellent. Jen, I like the way that you've tried everything and this is basically you have chosen to be uncomfortable in order to achieve some success. Yeah. Going from having an overly long book, you have to change the book. Now, of all this, what's the most difficult part in the process of releasing a new book? Just before you answer it, I also request, Jen to see if there any requests for speakers so that, you know, we can try and ask questions from the audience.
Challenges of Releasing New Work
Go ahead, Jen. Doesn't look like there's any requests for speakers, but while we're talking, if you do happen to have a question, just throw it into the chat too, like you can type it and then we'll be able to see that and we can even ask it on your behalf, too. So. But doesn't look like there are any right now. Absolutely. And the question I just asked was, what was the most difficult part in the process of releasing the new book? For me, every time I have to load up, I publish so infrequently. I've always forgotten, technically all how to do it. But for me, I think the hardest part is a fear. I find it a very hard thing to do, to put something that I do care about a lot, that I feel like I've poured a lot of myself into, that I've been inflexible about changing things about it because I do love it so much.
Overcoming Fear in Publishing
I do find it very hard to put that out there and then to watch, you know, no one want to buy it, to watch it sort of, you know, float there. I think that the fear is really the hardest part for me. And managing those expectations, you know, realizing, knowing that some of the choices I've made have made it harder for me to promote it, but also realizing that those were the right choices for me and that if there are consequences, you know, so be it. That really is the hardest part for me. Excellent. Excellent. I don't see any other questions from the audience. And so with that, I'm just gonna jump straight and invite our next guest, Lily.
Introducing Lily Lawson
But before that, I'll just go through a short buy just to introduce her. Lily Lawson writes poetry, kid books, short stories and non fiction. In addition to her books she has been publishing and using online. She describes our voices as, wow, chocolate, Twitter or ex, if you like, and Grey's Anatomy. Lily has big hand. I can tell that which shines through in her writing. The next voice you'll hear is Lily. Lily, welcome on board and share with us what works and what doesn't work. And I know you have a new book. Talk about that too. Just before Lily, I'm going to jump in for a second. I just wanted to mention another reason why we invited Lily on and she can speak to that maybe too.
Challenges in Diverse Book Marketing
So just a great example of another author similar to Jean, who has different types of works and where Jean mentioned some of the challenges of marketing that Lily has. So many diverse types of books can prevent, you know, or present some challenges. So that might be kind of cool to hear what you've done with that, Lily. And yeah, like Laban said, you've just released yellow this past week, so feel free to mention any challenges with that or any advice you have when you're launching a new book. Welcome. Thank you very much. Laban and Jen, can I say that I did not, that I sent my bio to Jen to say, is it a.
Themes in New Poetry Book
You just have a look at this and see if it's okay. And she added the last line. I would not have said that about me having a big heart. Very kindly, yes, I just learned rainbows, yadda. Book of Poetry, which is the third book in my Rainbow series, following on from red and Orange. And that was on the 24 September. And it's a. This is a kind of. Well, we, if any, we did, we've had a discussion about this. When I did my book launch on Saturday, were discussing themes in my book and it seems to come out as different things to different people as is normal for my poetry.
Exploring Poetry's Themes
And theme that themes were for me sort of hope, positivity. I'm trying to remember Jo's word that she used in the. To describe the book, theme of the book and indefatigable. Thank you. I knew I couldn't say it. I remember it, but that seemed to be the word that would best sum the book up. Are we positive people? And it's about getting through. It's not about just being positive. It's about facing life's challenges and sort of getting through anyway. Trying to sort of, I guess look for the silver lining in the. As we go through life. As far as Jen.
Challenges of Different Literary Genres
Oh, they've been said, my apologies if I'm mixing this up, but as has already been stated, I write short stories, poetry and children's books. These are, they each present their own challenges in marketing. And because I write children's picture books, the person, my end consumer, the child is not the customer. So what I have to try and do. So although the actual product, the end product, has to appeal to the. To the child, the marketing aspect has to speak to the customer, which is obviously an adult because of the size, because of the age of the child.
Navigating Children's Literature Challenges
So it's quite the challenge to try and spin it so that the parent or other adult within the child's life thinks, oh, this is a book that the child would like. The good news for publishing children's books and trying to use some of the promo sites, etc. That Jane referred to is that a lot of promo sites have a category for children's books. So there are at least options out there to promote in that manner. One of the other challenges is that you have to charge a reasonable amount of money in order to make, because of the cost involved in publishing that sort of literature, because it's illustrated art within the book.
Costs and Benefits of Illustrated Books
And that can sometimes mean that it's. It becomes a quite an expensive book really, relatively speaking. And I have to pay for an illustrator to do my. To do that work because I'm not skilled in that area. Not, certainly not to the standard would be required with short stories, with Sandcastles. That surprised me how that went. That did I, at the gate, it did the best of any book I published. And that was. I do wonder if part of that was due to the fact that I, Jen, did some ads and some posts for me during that period of time when I was releasing that book and in this subsequent.
Promotional Strategies for Book Releases
In the subsequent time to follow. Followed that perhaps, and that was using x and perhaps that's something that I know that ads have to be part of our marketing strategy these days. When I did my. From my poetry point of view, from. It's really hard to get promo sites for short fiction, especially if you, like me, don't stick to a particular genre within your short fiction because what do you label it as? I have tried literary fiction, but that isn't necessarily come off in certain areas.
Genre Challenges in Short Fiction
And I think really, perhaps promo sites are not the best place for this book unless it's one that is open to all books as far as to get back to poetry. Because obviously that's. That's my latest book and that's what I'm trying to promote right now. When I did my father's daughter, I didn't know what I was doing. First book, you publish your book, you have this in your hand and you go, now what do I do? What on earth do I start?
Learning the Publishing Process
And I have over time tried Amazon ads, which were proved to be expensive and didn't work for me, and various promo sites, etcetera. I also tried book tours and I got reviews, but they can work very well for some people and I don't know whether actually led to any sales really, but it did give me at least some. I did get my book in front of people. So at least there is that. The, was it with this series, with this rainbow series.
Series Publication Experience
When I published Orange, I asked Amazon and Goodreads if I was explained to them I was writing a series and asked if they would correct display that on their sites as a series. The Amazon working to do that, Amazon were quite happy to make a series for me, but Goodread said no because it didn't meet the criteria of what they regard as a series. So I've decided that I, I'm trying to do, I am, I've only just been doing it for about a week or so now, but I am trying to do exodus.
Experimenting with Marketing Techniques
Not saying that's going to work in this situation, but it might. I'm hoping that my experience in doing various forms of graphics and videos and things, which I'm growing in my experience of doing, might help. I have had lots of support was from people who've done graphics and videos, etcetera, for me. And that's really, I believe that's been really helpful because it's also, it's given me a chance to try out things and see what worked and what didn't.
Gaining Experience in Marketing
And having Jen post for me when she did also have gave me a bit of oversight as to how that would, how different things went over on X. Because obviously, as we all know, she has a very much larger following than I do and it's much more experience in Twitter ads and therefore, or ex ads. I'm sorry, old habits die hard. It's really difficult for me to call it X and Twitter. So it did give me a chance to say whether or not that was actually something I should do.
Continuing Learning in Ads
Should I be verified? As you can see, I'm, I made a decision to go ahead with that and should I go ahead with trying to do ads for myself? I am incredibly lucky that I've had Jen's guidance with this and unfortunately, she's, they're probably going to have to continue to help me with this because it's a really complex thing to try and do ads. And I've been trying out red because Red was very popular book to see how it would come across before I try out yellow which I'm going to start trying to do this week.
Unique Book Launch Experience
This was a. I've never had a book launch before, and yellow was the first book to be honored with her book launch. So that was quite an interesting experience. I'm very grateful to the people who did that. It gave me yet another sort of platform to promote my book, and that was great and it's always good to have promotions for your book. I've had some very good feedback from this. People do seem to enjoy my poetry, which again, I'm very grateful for.
Feedback and Recognition
I think, as what we have to remember is that every book is different and what works for one doesn't work for another, and what works for in what particular time for a book may not work if you keep returning to that. That platform or that trying to do that same thing again. It's. Marketing is frustrating, confusing, and unfortunately, very necessary. And as Jane has alluded to, if you don't let people know that you have a book out there, then you have no chance at all of selling it.
Future Sales Strategies
I haven't been doing anything much on face to face sales because as I was a carer for ten years and that didn't tend to go along with that, but that might be something I would look at in the future. I recognize that some of my fellow authors have had success in that area and actually say that's probably the best way to do things. So, yes, this is a bit of a journey. I'm doing sub saclaces and trying to see if I can builder following there as well.
Social Media Presence
As well as X and Instagram. Haven't got a Facebook page. Facebook isn't very keen on the idea that I am not that this is my author name and it is not my real name. I've been. I was luckily able when I first started on X, Twitter as it was in those days. I actually made an account in my real name and then just use my router name as a. As a username. So therefore I am allowed to. I have been able to be verified and so I'm grateful for that.
Author Identity and Verification
How that pans out, I don't know. I'm quite new with that still, but hopefully it will lead to some more exposure and doing things like this can hopefully only be helpful. I think whatever we do, we've got to try different things and see what works. But to remember that, you've got to be aware that there are restrictions and different hurdles to barriers to overcome with each thing, with each book.
Barriers in Poetry Publishing
And my biggest barrier in poetry is that people don't like that word, it scares them. People have this image of what poetry is and what poets are and that it makes them want to run away. And that's why I call myself a non poetry lovers poet. Because the line I hear in my reviews most often is, I don't like poetry, but I like yours from. So that's why my title is non poetry lovers poet, in case anybody was wondering where that came from.
The Poet's Identity
Sorry, I think I've waffled about other longer than I intended to. I didn't time. I didn't time what I was going to say. I think that was perfect. And the biggest takeaway that I just had. Washington, you talked about so many different strategies and how they don't always work. Sorry, I'm going to grab a sip of water. They don't always work. And it's like you have to just keep trying. And you also talked about diverse social media types.
Understanding Diverse Social Media
You know, IG is not the same as X. And I think, you know, if you're using Facebook or Amazon and you're trying ads on different ones, they don't always work and they might suddenly work one. So I just appreciate that you talked about how different it all is, and even marketing your different types of books, having to consider who's actually the one buying it. Is it the parent of the kid for the children's book or poetry, like you said, how to reach people who maybe don't normally buy poetry.
Final Thoughts on Marketing Challenges
There's just a lot to kind of take away there and think about. Maybe we can get some questions from other people at the end on that. But if you have anything else to say, lily, I'll kind of pause for a minute and then I'll introduce Jo when she's done with whatever she wants to say. I have one or two questions I'd like to ask her. I am quite happy to answer any questions you may have.
Daily Writing Routine
That's my only criteria. I must write every day. I open my word, doc. And whatever comes out to. I hope that I get to a satisfying conclusion. I am very privileged to have three. Well, I have. I'm saying three, but actually, sometimes it's more than that. To have excellent beta readers who will come at me and say, you need to add something to that, or you need to. This didn't end properly, or whatever else might be they might have to say, which is always incredibly helpful. If always, please don't put. If I have to. One of the things I will say to people is please don't publish without somebody reading it. If nobody reads it before it goes public, then there's all sorts of issues with that. I don't. I don't know how people write novels. I don't know how people write long fiction because I find it very difficult to maintain the momentum past something I write in one hit. If I, I have done stories where I've made them longer and I've done, I've written for a prompt and I've felt that the story had more legs to it, as you might say.
The Challenges of Writing
And therefore, I've gone back and used different prompts and continued on. But generally speaking, it's quite, I just write what I write and it finishes when it finishes and hopefully it works. I don't know if that actually answers your questions. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much for that response. My other question is, what advice would you give to aspiring authors and writers who want to write in multiple genres? I didn't go into this expecting to write multiple genres. I went into this writing poetry. I've written poetry. I have written poetry, stories and non fiction since I was eleven years old. I couldn't finish a story till 2019. I have so many unfinished stories, it's unbelievable. I have something like 1200 files on my computer of things that I haven't used yet and may never, some of which were never seen the light of day, in fact, probably the majority of which had never seen the light of day.
Unexpected Success in Writing
So I went into this as a poet. I didn't go into this as a multi genre author. I just found myself writing stories. And when I, there was a anthology that went for the Open University's 50th anniversary in 2019, I am an open university student, mature student, and I wanted to, I decided to challenge myself to finish the story, to send them a story rather than just poetry. So this is what I did. And since then, when Macarell, the magazine that is unfortunately no longer exists, is, was published then, and I replied, I sent stories and poetry into that and that, and I ended up writing non fiction for the hoot, which is an open university website as well. So I don't think I can tell people how to do this. I don't think I can say to people that you how to write multi genre. I don't didn't.
Publishing Milestones
I sort of fell into it like I do with a lot of things, and I just sort of went along and saw what happened. I had a lot of trouble getting myself in the headspace to publish sandcastles. I had challenges to in publishing yellow, but my challenges in publishing yellow were different. It was because of the timing and because of the content of the book. So because of my father's death, and it just made me feel that it was possibly the wrong book to publish. But I am very glad I did, and I will intend to finish my rainbow. I realize that I've gone sort of a little bit off what you intended, what you actually asked me. Thanks so much for that, Lily. And I think that your suggestion there that you have different types of writing on the go. I know some people are really against that. They have one type of writing.
Adapting Writing Strategies
They only work on that until it's done. But you just mentioned the benefit of having, say, a poetry project on the go, a children's book, because, like you said, if you wake up that day and you don't feel like writing the one, you know, work in progress that you've got on the plate, you can switch. And I think that's something that I've started to do. I didn't do that at the beginning. I had one project, but I think that's really good advice for people who do get stuck if you have multiple kinds of things that are really diverse LABAN I'm not sure if you have a follow up question, and if not, I can introduce Joe. No, I think you can go ahead and introduce John. All right. Joanne's been on before, so this is sort of a follow up interview, which I'm excited about.
Introduction to Joanne
But for those of you who didn't join us the last time, I'll just do a quick intro. So, Joanne, or JC Paulson, is a Saskatoon journalist who has been published in newspapers and magazines, and I should add that Saskatoon is in Canada. For anyone who doesn't know, Joanne shifted from fact to fiction four years ago when she started writing mysteries. Based in Saskatchewan. Adam's witness is the first book in her Adam and Grace mystery series. She has also published a historical western and a little children's book. So that's just a quick intro to Joanne. But I've put the link to Adam's witness in the reply to this. So if anyone isn't aware of that, you can check it out and see all of the books in that and also link to her Amazon page.
Joanne's Marketing Experiences
I wanted Jo to come back on because she has a whole bunch of things that have worked really well, as well as some things in marketing that didn't maybe go the way she thought. And I thought just talking about sort of the process or the progress of all of that and how you try different things, what's worked, what maybe didn't work, maybe warn us about the things not to ever try, or some of just that advice that we can use. So welcome, Jo. Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for that lovely introduction. And I also realized that I sent you the wrong bio because I've actually been doing this for eight years, not four. So apologies for that. If I sound slightly like I'm speaking to you out of the bottom of a pickle barrel, it's because it is fall here, and I am very allergic in the fall.
Joanne's Book Launch Journey
So I will do my best not to sniff. So I'm going to start with a very brief history, and some of you have probably heard me talk about this before, and I apologize for that. But there's a bit of an arc here I want to share as quickly as possible. When I launched Adam's witness in 2017, I did very, very well locally. I was a top seller in the city. Things were going great. And then I realized that's all going to end when everybody in Saskatoon wants my book has purchased it. So what was I going to do next? And a man from New York who was a book marketer got in touch with me out of the blue and said, my wife read your book, and she thinks that we can promote it for you. Are you interested? And I thought, is this a scam? Who is this person?
Unexpected Opportunities
So I phoned him. He picked up the phone. He was a real human being. I agreed to do this. He put Adam's witness up for free on, I think it was three of the well known promo sites. And the thing exploded. And he said to me, I'm going to get you number one. And I said, pffft. Really? Right. But he did, of course, free, though, right? And I went down that road, I think, three times with Adam's witness, putting it out for free to try to gain readership and so on. And I gave away probably 25,000 copies of that book. I'm pretty close. I'm pretty close on that number. Anyway.
Reflections on Marketing Strategies
Did it do me any good? Some. But of course, I never made a dime off those books. Remember that? Remembering that I only had one book out at the time. And then the rest of the series followed from there. So I don't know if anybody has tried doing a multiple promo with a brand new book. This is an important point. Brand new book recently. I'm not sure that you would get 25,000 downloads today. I think that promo sites have changed. I think as Jean rightly pointed out, you can only go back to that well so often, and they probably still work quite well for new books. But I don't know. Would you get that these days? I don't know.
Diverse Marketing Experiences
That said, I had a, you know, I had a pro doing it, so that helps because when I do promo sites now, the outcome is terrible. Like it's very low. And so we have to sort of put the promo sites in context, I think, because they're not cheap either. Right. And you want to make your eye at least like to make my money back. I'm going to fast forward dramatically here. I have tried Facebook ads. They have been, as Jean also rightly pointed out, they were successful to a point. I made sales. I gained readers of my substack and my mailer lite before that and even got some read through. But the cost of the ads meant that I was not making money on Facebook ads. And if anybody ever seriously solves that problem, I'm definitely listening.
Navigating Author Platforms
I believe that we have a couple of friends who are making Facebook work quite well. I don't know what their ROI is. So two points here so far then, is use promo sites wisely and do not discount local and in person sales. I made a lot of money and sold a lot of books in our sort of favorite, I guess, local bookstore here. And, you know, just because they're local people, they're still reading. So I would definitely do that. The other thing that worked for me very well was that I did a lot of media at the time. And the, wow, it was amazing.
Media Exposure
I got covered on every single media, mainstream media outlet in Saskatoon. And what you need for that, though, is angle just saying, hey, I put a new book, I rock isn't going to work out terribly well. And so this is just what happened to me, because not everybody is going to have the same kind of background that they have in a community. I've been a journalist here for long time, but what sold my book, I think, is that I located those books here and people bought them. So it was a bit, I had, hey, I published a new book. It's located in Saskatoon. You should buy it. And, yeah, that worked.
Crafting an Effective Angle
You know, if you say, for example, though, if you're writing fantasy, right, you need a different angle. You can't save this fantasy book, which takes place on, I don't know, another planet or in 2080, you know, is located here. Yeah, that's not going to work so well. So you have to come up with a different angle. Gonna jump ahead dramatically here. Again, I. And I have Jennifer McLeod almost entirely to thank for this because she persuaded me to try an ex ad. And I, what's the word? Experimented, I suppose, a little bit, and nothing happened.
Advertising Insights
I mean, you know, they worked okay, but they weren't. They weren't, you know, churning for me until I posted one in mid August. And that one went. And I. I talked about this a little bit in the last. The last time I was here. So I hope I'm not boring people too much, but I'm just going to go over that again because I think it's an important point, and I think it's an important place to advertise because it is indeed affordable. Which bookbub is not, which Facebook is not, which Amazon is not. You have to sell an incredible number of books to make those ads work, and it is not the same on X.
Crafting a Successful Ad Campaign
So I posted, let's see, what did I. Trying to remember exactly what I posted. I posted, first of all, the title right under that. I posted the link to the book, then I posted the book description, and then I posted reviews. And for the image, I did not use the book cover. I used an image of my main character walking up to the church in which she finds the dead bishop. And there was some controversy around this book. My book is about the. Is about homophobia and the terrible things that can result when people discriminate against other people.
Managing Controversy
And of course, there are elements on X who think I'm a terrible human being. I'm woke and, oh, my God, how terrible is this? But it created a certain amount of controversy, and I. And I wonder if they realize how much they were helping. You spiked the algorithm. Made me feel sick to my stomach, but unfortunately, I think that it helped the algorithm. So in a month, I sold 71 books. And what was super interesting to me is that I did not have a lot of Ku reads, about 12,000. It was very interesting to me that I sold more books than got, you know, per capita, I suppose.
Unexpected Results
Kemp reads. That was bizarre, I thought. But anyway, so this thing, this ad worked like crazy. Every day I'd get up and I would have sales almost. And I was just, what is happening? And then it died. It just died. It was like it fell off a cliff one day and it just stopped. So I'm going to have to go back and see if I can recreate that success. I don't understand exactly what happened. I'm going to have to dive in. But it worked, and it was. It was pretty cool.
Measuring Success
And so my return on investment, so ROI was easily in the 150% range. I cannot remember the numbers exactly, but was 150% at least. And I have never had ROI like that, except for here in Saskatoon, on the ground. The other thing I just want to mention super quickly, I think I've gone over my time already, so. And Jen has pointed this out to me a number of times, but there are times of the year when I think we really have to look at our advertising spend, if that. That indeed is the route we have decided to go, because there are times of the year, and we're in one right now.
Seasonal Advertising Strategies
Certainly, we are in Saskatchewan. I would say the United States are. We're closing in there, too, where there is so much noise, right, from online elections, disasters, celebrities doing crazy things and huge court cases, this sort of thing, where all the focus is on what is happening around us, and we're not going to do as well at those times. So I think it's worth keeping an eye on what is happening in your world. So I want to finish by saying that what I have done isn't necessarily going to work for everybody, because I'm in a particular genre, and you would think that my primary genre is mystery romance.
Genre Specific Marketing
Right. Which is supposed to be kind of a top seller on Amazon. Not in my experience entirely, but, yeah. Advertising a mystery or romance is not going to be the same thing, as Lilly said, as children's books or poetry or fantasy and so on. It's all. It's what worked for me. Sorry, there goes my throat. What worked for me may not work for you. I just want to clarify, you know, the sort of things that I have written. My children's book is by far my worst seller, and I don't promote it all that much, but it's.
Final Thoughts
That's. That's a. That's a tough one for me. And I admire Lilly very much for having had much better success with hers. And I'm just looking at my. Oh, yeah, okay. What? Just. Sorry, one more thing. If you're doing it, if you're doing an ad, get the link up there, get it high. And the ads I have run where the link is high up, like under the title, work much better than if they're at the bottom of your copy. And secondly, in my experience, please argue if you have had a different one. Stills, you know, so still artwork better than videos by a factor of about ten to one for me. And that's. I'm just going to wrap it up now because I think I've gone on for far too long.
Concluding Remarks
I had way too much to say. Thanks. Thanks for listening. Love you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Joan, for sharing that. I like that story of how you met this person in New York that approached you. What do you think was the hook that they decided to book? I think they were just trying to grow their business, frankly. They were watching me on X. Sorry, Twitter at the time, for sure, and they saw that I had put this out. His wife decided to pick it up and take a peek at it and said, yup, this. You know, I think what his.
Self-Reflection and Flattery
Okay, this is gonna sound self aggrandizing. What he said, though, was, my wife read your book. She liked the plot. She liked the story. And it's, you know, it's well written. We don't see any errors in it, any significant errors in it. It's well edited, and we are interested in taking you on as one of our clients because we will not be embarrassed by promoting your book. And that was very flattering. Thank you very much. So I think that it was just. They wanted to grow the business. They thought I had done a decent job. Let's give it a go. You know, I still amazed that this guy from New York just called me out of the blue. But it was fun. He was standing in the middle of Central park hollering at me because there was so much noise, and I was like, is this really happening? But he, you know, I got to say, he knew what he was doing.
Trust and Caution
He. He was excellent. And I am much more leery about this sort of thing now. There are a lot of scammers out there. In those days, there were fewer. You know, this has become a much bigger deal. haven't used them since because it was pretty pricey, you know, but it was a heck of a good way to get Adam's witness off to a good start. I mean, you know, a reasonable start. Okay. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. My next question is, how did you find the transition from non fiction to fiction? And were there any challenges, also surprises that you encountered along the way?
Transitioning Between Genres
I don't know. I. I think that as a journalist, the basics I had, the basics that one requires for any kind of writing, whether you're writing an essay or a novel or a news story, you have to know fundamentally how to spell, use grammar and understand punctuation. The difficult part was learning how to plot properly. And I did a lot of reading about that before I was even, like, five or six chapters into Adam's witness. I thought, yeah, I don't know what I'm doing with the plot arc. I kind of did. I mean, you know, I have an english, almost have an english degree, so I've read a lot of books and had to study them. But still, when you're doing it, that's a whole different thing.
Crafting a Compelling Story
So I did a lot of reading and just learned how to write a chapter so that it had an arc and lots of cliffhangers at the ends of chapters and that, you know, that sort of thing. And, yeah, study and perseverance, I guess. But the actual craft, you know, came fairly easy because I'd been already doing the basics for about 30 years, I guess. So you gotta learn. That's my background. One thing, just before we move forward, jo, one thing that you said that I thought was really helpful for people with the advertising part of it, specifically with ex ads, but probably with any, is that you need the angle.
The Importance of Angles in Advertising
And I think, you know, the layout, the setup, where to put the link, all that's really important. But then, like you said, some kind of. Some kind of angle for the ad, like, what are you trying. Who are you trying to hook into, you know, becoming interested and then buying the book? And I think that's interesting. And like you said the controversy aspect, not that it has to be wildly controversial, but a small little aspect of that to get people maybe replying or engaging with it, just something sort of provocative that will catch their interest. Unfortunately, it can go the other way, like you said, where people are replying really negative and hurtful things, which is awful, but it didn't seem to actually hurt your sales, which is fascinating.
Personal and Professional Distinction
So, again, we've talked a lot about separating business from the other side, the personal side. And unfortunately, that's one of the aspects when you put your book out there that you have to do. And I just. I really appreciated what you said about find some kind of angle or something to pull the people in when you are creating an ad. And then just a follow up question. You said that your children's book does the worst, but you don't market it a lot. Have you ever tried to advertise it? No, I have never tried paid advertising on the children's book, to be honest.
Focusing on Current Projects
I might try. I may try it one day. I'm extremely focused on advertising the mystery romance series. Right now I am two thirds of the way finished the last book in the series, so that will be six books altogether. And I'm really hoping to generate more readership before that happens. So I'm extremely focused on that. I may try the children's book one day. I'm kind of thinking about having a friend who is a brilliant cartoonist redo the graphics because I don't think the graphics are terribly good. I just whip them up myself. And I am no genius in that regard.
Standing Firm in One's Work
So there's a bit of shyness, I think, that comes in there, too. And that's another thing. You got to stand up and be proud of what you've written and, you know, stick to your guns. Because I tend, my novels tend to be about social issues more than anything else. And I have to. I have to stand up and support my voice, you know, and say, this is what I believe in. And if you're a homophobic jerk face, go away. Yeah, controversy is very interesting. It's very difficult.
Sales and Controversy
And I would say, Jen, that it didn't just, it did not just hurt my sales. I think that it helped sales. And I find that I'm still unpacking that, you know, that was a tough thing to watch. And there were a few people who ended up taking down their comments when someone pointed out that, hey, you're just helping her, you know, stop commenting. And I went, yeah, it's true. Absolutely. Because that's 100% the best data I've ever run. And I don't, that's the only thing I can attribute it to. Awesome. Awesome. Jen, what are some of your take homes or take away from the speakers of today?
Lessons and Perseverance
What is the greatest takeaway? Honestly, I think it's to just keep trying because each speaker today mentioned how they had maybe had a challenge or not been successful, and then when they tried something new, maybe it wasn't again, but they just continued to take risks, learn from it, grow from it, try a new thing and never give up. I think especially for indies, that's really important because, oh, I've heard stories from so many who want to delete their account, want to pull their book down. You know, one bad review and they want to delete the whole book.
The Longevity of Books
And, you know, how many books are on Amazon? I don't know, 10 million? I have no idea. But the point is, like, you know, one person or five people didn't like it. Don't let that stop you. Just learn from everything. And, you know, there's something to be learned in every situation. It's just an opportunity for growth. And I just really appreciate all three guests. They, they gave me something deep to think about. So thank you. Yeah. For me, I think that some of the books that have been extensively marketed, yeah.
Market Trends in Publishing
They hit for some time, then the cells fall. This shouldn't be discouraging to most of the authors because books, they take a time lag of about two years to find its rightful audience. And when that happens, the book ends up having. Books have a long shelf life, let me put it that way. A good example is this book called the War of Art by Stephen Pressfeld. When it was released in the first year it only sold 9000 copies. But then every year it keeps selling more, you know, every subsequent years it may makes more cells.
Persistence Pays Off
Yeah. And this is true for both fiction and non fiction. And then when you look at another book, this is called the personal MBA. This book never hit New York Times, was never the Wall Street Journal. But guess what? Twelve years later it has sold over 1.2 million copies. So the thing is, never give up. And as well, you just have to learn to be uncomfortable. You know, what everybody has been trying to do. We can see what Lily has tried, what Gene has tried, what Joanne has tried.
Continuous Attempts in Writing
You know, you just, you got to keep doing it. There's no giving up. That's so true. Good advice. No matter how long you've been doing this. Just the whole X ads thing. If anyone wants to try one of those sometime, please feel free to dm me and ask questions. I would love to answer them. And I'm not saying it's going to work, but I can certainly share what hasn't worked or the things that I feel that have. Just a final comment about the ads.
Controversial Ads and Engagement
Jo said her controversial one in August did the best. That was the same thing for me. But I'll tell you what the controversy was. I started an ad in May for one of my books and in it I mentioned that the main character finds the female character's canadian accent sexy. And I got the most trolling I've ever had in the replies, but a lot of engagement and the most sales. So I don't know if it's because people felt sorry for me when they saw the trolling or if it was because I just kind of called people on the trolling and then they ended up apologizing and buying the book.
Sales and Engagement
I would immediately have sales after engaging with those people. So, and it lasted about 60 days. It was about two months of straight sales. And so I don't know what, you know, the specific return is it's been a while since I looked at the data, but controversy can be small and as long as it gets people talking. Right. I remember that, Jen and watch that with great interest, noting that Canadians actually do have sexy accents.
Community Acknowledgment
And so, like, what were they on about? So there. Okay. Thank you very much. Our guests today, Jane, Lily and Joanne. And thanks for all the listeners for visiting the cozy book. We've just come to the end of broadcast. We look forward to connecting next week. Commit to doing something right for your book. I will see you next Tuesday at noon Eastern standard time, right here on the X spaces.
Closing Remarks and Availability
If you want to stay longer, you're free to do that. Thank you. Fantastic. Thanks, Laban. If anyone wants to chat or ask questions, just request to speak and I can make it happen. That was a great show. Thanks, everybody. I really appreciate you including me. You're very welcome. I mean, it's been the second time had you on the show. We, I mean, that story of how it happened for you with this, you know, this couple that had gone through your book, it's very exciting.
Community and Cooperation
I hope some of this will be happening more often. Thank you. Thank you very much for inviting me. It's really interesting to listen to everything that everybody has to share, and hopefully some of the things that we've shared between us will help somebody out there. I hope so, too. I don't know. I mean, we're all just struggling along. We're all doing different things, but maybe, you know, we can learn from each other and support each other, which is really why we're on X, right?
Support and Connection in the Writing Community
Certainly in my case, I really appreciate all the writing community and various individuals within the writing community have been amazing to me and including both the other guests and of course, Jen. And I really appreciate that. It's been my baby, my. I don't know. My greatest sort of decision was joining Twitter X, because before I did that, it was just me and my lonely little writing. Because nobody in my actual life cares. I shouldn't say nobody.
The Value of Community Support
There's a handful of people, like Joe said, in person stuff. When I would go, it would do well, but that's because, you know, I would advertise it and then a bunch of other people would come. But I have a lot of relatives, but a lot of them aren't aware or as supportive of this. So having access is really helpful for that. Can I jump in and say I agree? And having a group of supportive authors, particularly ones that you can do.
Marketing Beyond the Community
Your complaining about privately, not in a public space, is really helpful. But I do also want to stress that whereas the writing community is this great resource, if you want to sell your books, you do have to find a way to break out of just the writing community. I do this a lot, too, but just all of sharing our books with each other only isn't going to help us find more readers. So don't let people tell you that it's self aggrandizing to do advertising or to try to push your book outside of things that are just free.
Investing in Your Work
Sometimes you have to spend some money to get your book seen. Hopefully, as Jo and Lily and Jen have been talking about, trying to find a way to do that with a rate of return that isn't, you know, break the bank. But just relying on, you know, other people showing your book to the same people over and over isn't really going to get you very far. I have to dive in here and say, jean Bohm, I think we all need to look, we all need to understand that.
Finding Unique Marketing Strategies
And it's wonderful to have this great community and all the support that we're not going to sell books by speaking in the echo chamber all the time. So we do sometimes have to think, okay, maybe I can spend, you know, $30 this month and run an ad and see where it gets me, because otherwise we're just all talking to each other. And I've also thought lately that one, forgive me, and if no one's interested, I understand that one really useful topic in a podcast someday would be how do we break out of our echo chamber in Twitter and reach other people?
Future Podcast Ideas
I don't know. And if somebody has ideas for that, I am listening. I think that would be great if we could find unique and maybe revolutionary ways to use this platform, public speaking. The authors who have gone the public speaking way, they kind of like, have an unfair advantage because an author who is a consultant and is able to speak charges ten times more than an author who's not speaking. Can you believe that?
Navigating Public Speaking Opportunities
The issue is that not all of us have things that if you write non fiction, then you have an obvious thing to speak about. Or if you have a, if you are skilled in giving out writing advice or you're skilled at, or you've done a lot of historical research, if you're writing historical fiction or there is an obvious platform for you to speak at, then that's, then that's one thing. But for example, for somebody like me, I don't know what I would actually speak about unbelievably, considering I can talk for England, but depending on what you're actually trying to publish and whatever you're trying to do, Joe, I do think we do need to at some point in the future that is a good topic for a podcast to see whether to open it up to people and see what they think.
Marketing Strategies and Cautions
Thank you, Lily. I have another possible topic, although it might ruffle some feathers, is we're always talking about what to do to market our books. I think maybe we should also talk about what things people shouldn't be doing to market their books. There are also quite a few things that really are not very good ideas, in my opinion. That sounds excellent to me. Some ideas there for a future podcast there, Lavan?
Future Discussions and Ideas
Absolutely. In the introduction part, I run through some of them and what we should be, you know, looking at this so that people can get ideas. Because what I know is people are really thirsty for ideas. So, you know, just keep logging in. We will address most of these issues and see how, you know, the writing community can benefit from these talks. That's fantastic, everyone. I'm going to end the recording.
Closing and Final Thoughts
Does anyone else have a question? Want to speak for a moment? Just let me know before I end it. Yeah, and before you do that, I want to thank you very much for all you've done, the guests you've been able to invite and, you know, you just, I mean, I'm short of words, I don't know how to describe it, but thank you very much, Jenny. Oh, it was my pleasure. I honestly felt so honored to be asked. Christina had to travel and in the summer, I think it was in August, she mentioned this and asked me and I was honored and it's been great working with you.
Appreciation and Community Spirit
So thank you, all your graphics and just all the support and just so happy the guests could come. So, and yeah, reach out anytime dm me with any questions about marketing and stuff. The ad specifically. Not that I know anything about the rest of it, but we're all learning here. I'm going to end this, but just raise your hand if you want to speak before I click end. Yeah, yeah. Thank you very much.
Gratitude and Farewells
And you know, I never hesitate whenever I need to contact you for whatever reason. Thank you for being a very supporting member of the writing community. Thank you very much, everyone. And you have a lovely evening. Well, it's evening here because it's eight. It's just going to 20:20 here. All right. Thanks so much. Yeah, thanks for everybody.
Concluding Remarks
Thanks, Levain. And I'm going to end this, but anybody is free to put questions or replies.
