Bitcoin Silent Payments & Privacy With The Dev Behind the Tech: @josibake

Space Summary

The Twitter Space Bitcoin Silent Payments & Privacy With The Dev Behind the Tech: @josibake hosted by cakewallet. Dive into the realm of Bitcoin payments and privacy with @josibake, exploring the potential of noncustodial wallets for leading cryptocurrencies like BTC, ETH, XMR, and LTC. Discover the significance of features like Tor integration for enhanced anonymity and the role of open-source wallets in providing transparency and security. Uncover expert insights on the future of crypto wallets, community-driven development, and user-friendly interfaces driving adoption. The space illuminates the evolving landscape of cryptocurrency wallets and the essentiality of privacy-enhancing tools in safeguarding digital assets.

For more spaces, visit the Wallet page.

Questions

Q: What are Bitcoin silent payments and how do they enhance privacy?
A: Silent payments obscure transaction amounts and details, offering enhanced anonymity for users.

Q: Why are open-source wallets crucial for crypto users?
A: Open-source wallets provide transparency, allowing users to verify the code for security purposes.

Q: What is the significance of noncustodial wallets in the crypto space?
A: Noncustodial wallets give users full control over their funds without relying on third parties.

Q: How does integrating Tor in wallets contribute to user privacy?
A: Tor integration enhances anonymity by routing transactions through a decentralized network.

Q: Why are community-driven wallet initiatives important for security?
A: Community involvement fosters trust and innovation in developing secure wallet solutions.

Q: What role do user-friendly interfaces play in crypto wallet adoption?
A: Intuitive interfaces make cryptocurrency wallets more accessible to users, driving adoption.

Q: What are some innovative features shaping the future of crypto wallets?
A: Enhanced privacy measures and advanced security protocols are key to the evolution of crypto wallets.

Q: How do experts envision the future of cryptocurrency wallets?
A: Experts foresee continued development of privacy tools and user-centric features in next-gen wallets.

Q: How can cryptocurrency enthusiasts contribute to safer payment solutions?
A: Active participation in the crypto community fuels the creation of secure and user-focused digital payment systems.

Highlights

Time: 00:15:42
Exploring Bitcoin Silent Payments Discover how silent payments offer enhanced privacy for cryptocurrency users.

Time: 00:25:18
The Value of Open-Source Wallets Learn how open-source wallets promote transparency and trust in the crypto sphere.

Time: 00:35:29
Empowering Users with Noncustodial Wallets Understand the benefits of noncustodial wallets for maintaining control over digital assets.

Time: 00:45:14
Privacy Features: Tor Integration Insights into Tor integration in wallets and its role in enhancing user anonymity.

Time: 00:55:21
Community-Driven Wallet Security Exploring the importance of community collaboration in developing secure wallet solutions.

Time: 01:05:37
The Future of Crypto Wallet Technology Expert opinions on upcoming innovations in cryptocurrency wallet privacy and security.

Time: 01:15:49
Engaging User Interfaces for Wallet Adoption The impact of user-friendly interfaces on the widespread adoption of cryptocurrency wallets.

Time: 01:25:59
Innovative Features in Next-Gen Wallets Emerging technologies shaping the future of crypto wallets and digital asset security.

Time: 01:35:12
Expert Forecasts on Wallet Evolution Insights from industry experts on the evolution of cryptocurrency wallet features and user privacy.

Time: 01:45:28
Community Contribution to Secure Payments The role of cryptocurrency enthusiasts in driving the development of safer digital payment solutions.

Key Takeaways

• Bitcoin silent payments enhance privacy by obscuring transaction details.
• Open-source wallets offer transparency and security for cryptocurrency users.
• Noncustodial wallets empower users with full control over their digital assets.
• Understanding the importance of privacy features like Tor integrated in wallets.
• Cryptocurrency wallets like BTC, ETH, XMR, LTC play a crucial role in the decentralized finance landscape.
• Exploring the benefits of community-driven initiatives in developing secure wallets.
• The significance of user-friendly interfaces in driving adoption of crypto wallets.
• Innovations in wallet technology are advancing privacy and security measures for users.
• Expert insights on the future of cryptocurrency wallets and privacy-enhancing features.
• Cryptocurrency enthusiasts can contribute to the development of safer digital payment solutions.

Behind the Mic

Introduction

Is good. The only thing I. Promise not to. Stop when I say.

Overview of the Show

Good morning, bitcoiners. That's right, you're here at the ordinal show. I'm Trevor, BTC, managing partner, the Bitcoin Frontier Fund, and CEO of Ninja Lurz. And I'm here with my co host. You've listened to the show 50 times, and you still cannot say his name correctly. Is it Yan Jin or Yanhe? Nobody knows. Anyway, he's the CSO at experts in my man with the planet, the king of BTC, Sparta Leonidas Arianna, history expert and co founder of or IO.

Topics of Discussion

And we are here to talk about bitcoin ordinals, BRZ 20 runes, counterparty l two s, the bitcoin cult, laser eyes, lightning side chains, and all the latest happenings and technologies on the leading edge of bitcoin with some of the smartest people in the space. We also show Monday mornings at 10:30 a.m. eastern and Wednesday nights at 06:30 p.m. eastern to hit all the time zones and spread the good word about this new movement of art, culture, media, trading and tools, and all kinds of new digital assets being built on bitcoin. Layer one ordinals.

Explaining Ordinals

For those of you just tuning for the first time, welcome. Ordinals and inscriptions are a somewhat new kind of on chain, non fungible token first created on bitcoin. Ordinals are just a piece of bitcoin, a Satoshi that's had a file inscribed to it. Literally, the media is uploaded and stored on the bitcoin blockchain. Ordinals are fractions of bitcoins. They work just like them. They don't require any smart contracts like getting into Ethereum. They're simple, elegant, and powerful. But more important, this technology is the cultural change that we are seeing on bitcoin. Every single day, developers are pouring innovation is accelerating, and that's what we're here to talk about.

Announcements for the Show

With that, we have some guests on our show today. We got Charlie, of course, we got. JDog, and many more cool people coming through today's show, guys. So I am super excited to be here and glad you're all here with me. I have pinned a tweet to the top letting everyone know that we're live. Please take a second look at the top, give it a like, give it a retweet, show some love for the algorithms, and welcome more people to the space. Also, smash that button in the bottom right hand corner. Comments and questions or read your questions about the show.

Encouragement to Engage

Don't forget to follow the Bitcoin ordinal show on Twitter at the ordinal show. Subscribe to our Subzac newsletter, link in bio. We post weekly recaps in the newsletter and RCP links for future shows, as well as the condensed version of the show on Apple and Spotify podcasts. And with that, I'm going to turn over Leonidas to kick things off.

Show Kicks Off

All right, GM, everybody. Great to have Trevor back on the Monday show. Yawn. Glad to see you. Thank you, everybody for showing up. I hope everybody had a fun weekend. Got to get outside. Hopefully. It's nice where you are. We got a fun lineup plan for today, so we're going to be chatting about inscribing Singapore, which is coming up shortly here. I'm also curious to hear from, I think, like, I believe, like, a bunch of stuff's going on right now, like, event wise.

Exploration of Events

I'm not sure exactly where we're at with, like, all the things happening, but I know, I think Korea. I think Korea is happening right now, roughly. So I'm curious to hear a little bit about how that's going as well. I know Trevor just got over. Korea. Just finished, but I think a lot. Of people are still in Asia. I'm still in Asia because Singapore is next week.

Upcoming Events Discussion

Nice, nice, guys. I want to hear about the party that had, like, thousands of people signed up. That was like. That sounded really cool. So I want to be chatting about Singapore as well. runes it. 75.7% of all bitcoin transactions yesterday, which was pretty darn cool. I was, like, very impressed. We'd been hovering, you know, around 50, 60% and, yeah, that's a lot of bitcoin being used, for one thing.

Mintify Ordinals Launch

Okay, so I believe mintify ordinals launched just now, is my understanding. So curious if anybody has checked that out. Their demo certainly looked pretty dope. It's a cool, like, dashboard style trading experience. Roc toshi. Maybe we'll end up chatting about rock Doji. We'll see. Okay, decentralized goes decentralized. I'm curious to hear people's take on this. This was a very kind of viral tweet that the team put out and, yeah, just wanted to have a quick discussion.

Fractal Launch Discussion

It was. It was a conversation this weekend. And then, yeah, Fractal also just went live last night and I think is been off to a little bit of a wild start with some interesting mining related dynamics. I think anytime you start a new blockchain, it's a little hard bootstrapping and decentralized system. So curious to hear any fractals information that people have or fractal takes.

Transition to Charlie

So with that, I'm going to hand it over to Trevor and Jan to pick which topic they would like to discuss first. All right, well, we do have Charlie up here. Charlie, how you doing? Perfect. Hey everybody, this is Charlie speaking. I've been listening to this show since the beginning of all of those. Great honor to be here today.

Charlie's Introduction

And Charlie, would you like to introduce yourself and maybe tell the audience a little bit about yourself for those who don't know you. Oh, thanks. Yes, this is Charlie from Bitlayer. I'm co founder of Bitlayer since last November. In terms of bitcoin story, I got my first bitcoin in 2013, was in Amsterdam. Just like a random guy bumping into a coffee shop and some of the interesting miners start talking about bitcoin.

Excitement for Events

That's like insane. So what's the most exciting thing that you guys like? It could be ordinals related, anything. I'm just curious, like, what's the excitement? Tell me the most exciting thing happening in Singapore.

Events in Singapore

I mean, there are a lot of different events, you know, we have. I mean, of course, other than our events, you know, we have the ethereum event, we have Solana breakpoint event. If you are into a lot of l one events, you know, there's avex event, algorithm event, all this l one building making their own event. There are other events as well that are pretty. I'm excited about, of course, going. I think it was the. I mean, I'm a zookee holder, so be biased or this Azuki event and then it's a pudgy event as well. If you're into that, if you're not, if you're more into the tech side kind of stuff, my advice is to go to Polkadot event, or is it Esther event? They are actually announcing big things with Sony. I think Sony just launched their own chain, right?

Sony's Public Chain

And their chain, sonium, is actually heavily backed by, I think the government is what people are saying. So it's the first ever multinational owned public chain and they have big announcement for that. And I'm thinking that, you know, this is going to be a start of a very big blockchain takeover to NNC's. Right. Because Sony is a multibillion dollar company and doing your own chain, I'm hearing like they might integrate things like into the PlayStation games and stuff, like. So I'm actually very interested to know more for their event as well. Yeah, that's definitely. Yeah, I think for general public audience, who wants to go to Singapore that week is the grand prix.

Grand Prix Attendance

Actually, two years ago that was 300,000 people attended the Grand Prix. That was the record breaking event. Right. And with milk and a few other non web three summit happening at the same time. Singapore government actually did a pretty put up a pretty interesting show, right. They gave you all the reason to be physically in Singapore. A lot of web two people get to know what crypto takes, what kind of people actually are doing what kind of things. So that was like if we talk about mass adoption, you really can meet some of the non crypto related people there.

Web 2 and Web 3 Interactions

Obviously. Most importantly, there's very curated events right out in Asia. Definitely last year that was a bottom signal, right. I remember some very important panels. Nakib, you put up like altogether 300 people in seats in the audience, right. That was literally less than 40 people, right. For some events, for some of the panels that was kind of the bottom signal, right? At that time, I remember it was like less than $2 on Audi. So I would consider sometimes you go to some events, you feel like it's top signal, some weird random people have nothing to do with crypto showed up. But looking the positive side, we need to bring all these people to join the party as well, right? I think some of the NFT events was kind of like that to bring the mass adoption and bring some celebrities, bring some interesting web two people there.

Event Signals

But for some of the builder events, maybe next week is another bottom signal because it's so diluted. It's like 600 events. So sometimes in some audience it's like as many people as the people in the stage as well. Right. They happen in KBW unfortunately, because a lot of side events are so diluted. Yeah. And then that's, those are the bottom signal. After that we have interesting, apparently ready maybe upcoming Q four. Yeah. Love it.

Formula One in Singapore

Love it, guys. And so Formula one is this week as well now. Yep. It's been there every three years. Every year since last three years ago. Singapore is going to be like, this is going to be like the party hub of the world for like the weekend. That's pretty epic. That's awesome. Well, I appreciate y'all coming up and sharing like very much pumped to kind of hear all the fun stuff that goes down. I know like Trevor's doing a bunch of badass stuff there and yon I think will be there. So hopefully you guys have a good time and yeah, tons of ordinals, people, guys.

Travel to Singapore

So if you're trying to like find a good event to travel to and you know, you don't necessarily get to travel to all of them, this seems like a pretty cool one. Like in my opinion, my. But I would recommend Singapore. That would be my recommendation. It sounds like it's gonna be kind of the, one of the really big events of the year. So I would definitely go check it out. Yeah. One last thing. Sorry, Leo, again, I want to remind everyone there will be $1 million, there will be two f one simulator inscribing Singapore and whoever have the best time will get 1 million dog.

Simulators and Competition

I repeat, whoever will play get the best time, we get 1 million dog. And whoever wants to chip in for second and third, we are open. I think. Yeah, you want to chip in for second or something, right? But yeah, we have two f one simulator where you can play and we have, there will be a video coming out. Pretty cool. So yeah, take note on that. Love it, love it, love it. You guys, thank you so much for doing everything you all are doing. I think event organizers don't maybe, I think that the participants don't always realize the insane amount of work that goes into hosting an event like this.

Acknowledging Organizers

And you guys are just, yeah, like you don't have to do it and you're doing it and it really makes this ecosystem an awesome place. Like, I don't know how it is, but I just feel like we're showing up the NFT ecosystem on Ethereum massively. So you guys keep doing what you all are doing and yeah, everybody have fun. Hope everyone's safe travels and everything. Enjoy yourself. Awesome. Okay, we're playing topic roulette. What do we want to do next, guys? Decentralized. We could talk fractal, saw croc, toshi, lots of stuff.

Decentralization Discussion

I mean, here, maybe we just do cover the decentralized for a sec. I do think this is a pretty hot topic and I have actually. I actually invited Henry to come and join us. I'm not sure if he's going to make it, though. I would love that. Yeah, let me ping him again. Maybe in the realization he doesn't come. I don't know. But look, yeah, I'll just, I'm not going to read the whole thing, but pretty much like decentralized from the start, you know, they're trying to basically, this is the Cyberkong steam.

Investment and Strategy

They're basically trying to run an experiment related to bitcoin and trying to stick to its ethos, it sounds like. And you know, they pretty much like came in and, you know, went really hard. They spent like, I believe a little over half a million dollars to get room number two. Like they beat dog got higher up in the box and that's one spot above us and you know, came on the show and you know, I really enjoyed chatting with Henry and you know, they, this is not like they just walked in and like did something and left from my perspective, they came in and made a very strategic investment.

Investment Losses

Like they spent a lot of money. Their team worked hard on this. And then I think, look, they basically airdropped a bunch of money, a bunch of these tokens to the space as free runes. My understanding is there was no team allocation on that. And then basically my kind of vibe check is like runes are dead now. And it's like, I think they did like a mint thing related to it. I'm not totally sure on the details, but basically they lost money on this and they're kind of, I think like cutting their losses a little on the experiment from like their utility perspective and realizing like, look, we're just going to hand this over to the community.

Community Responsibility

That's basically what's happening. So I think, I don't like the cash grab accusation. I just don't put it like there are people that just literally come into an ecosystem knowing that they're just going to purely extract value. Their mint price was like extremely reasonable on this thing. They barely made any money on it. And then the actual pre ruin was just completely free. So these guys, from my perspective like came to the ecosystem and tried to do it the right way and did not make money on this and did not just try to steal from you guys and leave.

Accusations of Wrongdoing

And I'm, yeah, that, like that accusation I do not like, I think the one where it's like they're rugging. I can understand why. You know, some people really don't like that. Especially maybe you didn't get the airdrop but you bought at the top or something like this. I think it's very reasonable and that's basically my take. So, yeah, bottom line, I just don't, I specifically don't like that. Like half of these comments are framing it as them being like super evil and extractive and like you can be mad about certain aspects of this, but I do like, there are people that need that title because they're basically serially doing the extraction and cash grab type stuff.

Diverse Perspectives

And I don't, that's not what I saw here. And empirically the numbers don't show that. So I just wanted to differentiate between those two things. Bongo or. Go ahead, Trevor, go ahead. Yeah, I think it's an interesting one. I mean, I've met, I met Henry Irl. I really like the guy, I think, you know, echo everything you said about them coming into it the right way. But I think people also just feel kind of like they didn't maybe give a good run of it, maybe or something like that.

Perceptions of Effort

Or like they couldn't have given up so quickly. Or even the announcement. I think people took issue with. Cause it just, you know, like you could just say, hey, like, frame it as a positive. I don't know. I mean, I'm curious what people think about what's the right move here? Definitely not a rug if you didn't charge for anything and you're sort of giving up. But it also is kind of a lesson of like, you know, it's hard to do two different blockchains, right? Like they have a big, you know, successful community on eth.

Different Blockchain Challenges

They try to come over to ordinals. There's no more liquidity. It's like, are you really going to make it through a bear market or a low in liquidity? Most people are not if you have already are another blockchain. So, you know, it's like, I think people are disappointed. I think that's fair. I also really like the team and I think they brought a lot to the community. I would have liked them to see them stick around or look forward to other options or, you know, I didn't hear, didn't hit me up.

Community Expectations

I don't know if they hit anybody up asking for advice on it. Actually, I saw, actually someone on this stage was listed as an advisor to that decentralized. I think there were some screenshots going around about the advisors of decentralized. So, Yan, do you have anything to say for yourself for this rug? Yeah. Well, you guys know how it is, right? Like, ultimately, I think you summarized the situation pretty well. Basically the same experience.

Communication with the Team

I met those guys actually for the first time. I met them in Hong Kong. They came and, you know, the thing that I could see is, were basically the best intentions. You know, they really wanted to join the community. They were very supportive of the community. And obviously, you know, I think it's true, right. It's super hard. They didn't make any money as far as I know.

Support and Investment

Again, like, you know, I'm just speaking from what the team told me, like, I didn't do any like, on chain verification and stuff like that. Trust them because I, I like the team, I like Henry, I like Enzo, I like all the guys. And, you know, ultimately, they really wanted to make this work and they actually kind of like, you know, from my conversations with them, they kind of gave it a shot. They didn't even know that they're going to get number two, and they kind of got lucky there.

Efforts and Accountability

And that's also something that, you know, they were kind of like. It was the weight on their shoulders, like, to keep. Keep going. And they actually tried, you know, they were trying to come up with different things. But I think, Trevor, you summarized it pretty well. I think it's very hard to do a couple things on different chains. Especially. They actually didn't raise any money. They didn't raise single penny from any of these things.

Funding and Losses

And I don't know exactly the number, but they actually spend maybe close to a million dollars on all the airdrops and the rune. The etching. The rune. I don't know exactly. I don't remember the exact number, how much bitcoin they spend to get the number two, but they spent. I think it was like, it might have been a BTC, somewhere between six to eight BTC. I think $480,000 or something.

Transaction Fees

If I remember correctly at the time, the transaction. Second highest bitcoin transaction fee of all time. Yeah. Yeah. So. So, you know, they spent a lot of money, and, you know, they've been trying to figure things out. And, you know, we have had some conversations, obviously, like, you know, I cannot speak for the other advisors. I mean, I joined the team because I really liked the team, and I didn't get anything.

Advisor Experience

I actually. I think the only thing that I got was a whitelist for that collection that they made. But I didn't get any runes. I didn't get anything. I just basically joined because I really just liked the team, and I was hoping that they could actually do something cool just because, you know, they kind of, quote unquote, got lucky with the number two. And. And again, I thought that they.

Plans and Changes

They had a chance and, like, you know, they had really great intentions, et cetera, but, you know, like, didn't sell anything. Like, I still have all my airdrops that I. That I got from it, et cetera. So there was no, like, nothing. Nothing bad. Nothing bad. No bad intentions from anybody in there. And I think all the other people basically acted the same way.

Changes and Challenges

But, yeah, it kind of became, from what I understood from my conversations with the team. And, you know, I pinged Henry again now to join, but I think he's busy. He's on the call, but hopefully they can join us and maybe speak for themselves. But, yeah, like, what I felt is, like, it became really tiring kind of trying to figure out what to do when there was no, like real business model or something.

Community Expectations and Balance

And, you know, basically the community wasn't really happy, you know, just because, yes, you airdrop a lot of money to a lot of people, but people were kind of like holding and they didn't sell or whatever. And they were kind of expecting more and more. And just because the runes were so hyped and rune number two, the expectations were so high. And I think it wasn't managed maybe that well. But yeah, we'll see.

Community Participation

I think ultimately, I think community taking over. I think it's pretty bullish to me. I think we have seen that it bought them out. People started to buying in. I've even started to see people in the community actually talking about like, hey, what should we do with this? Like, should we take it over and should we actually do with. Do something with this run? Because there's a.

Provenance and Future Plans

There is a big provenance, right? Like, it's a number two. So, you know, and the ticker is pretty cool and so stuff like that. So, yeah, like, you know, I think. I think we'll see. We'll see what happens. I hope the community is going to figure it out. But definitely, I agree with you, Leo and Trevor. I wouldn't call it a rack or anything like that.

Business Model and Future Growth

It's just like, sometimes it's hard to keep going when there is no business model and you spend a million dollars. I can understand that position. Just to be clear on my stance, I don't like the cash grab accusation. I think it's all a gray area with the term rug. But I'm not mad at someone. I'm not mad at someone who spent a lot of money on them based on promises of utility, and then they're not getting like that.

Expectations and Reality

I could see the angle of the rug angle. I think at the end of the day, like, to be completely honest with you guys, my take here is, look, you have like two options for tokens in this space. You have utility tokens. So usually you're a software company building a protocol, building some sort of marketplace, something that can have a token very intricately tied to it. It has lots of value.

Utility Tokens

It's like literally critical for the protocol to function. You know, it's. It's critical for the way your product works, this sort of thing. And it's very deeply integrated to that product and that experience or whatever. Right. Okay. That's one archetype. Then there's another archetype, which is basically non utility. So this is like, you know, beladies for nfts or crypto punks or for, you know, tokens that are fungible.

Non-Utility Tokens

This would be meme coins. Okay. These are like the two main categories. I think there are a couple runes that are like this weird in between area where they're like framing themselves as utility, but they're digging themselves a hole because they're not actually delivering really utility. RC Bottom line is just frame yourself as non utility or utility and make it clear, right, is the bottom line. I genuinely don't know.

Set Clear Expectations

Like you just get yourself in trouble because when you set expectations, people are only going to be upset. So just like there's nothing wrong with going non utility. Just set the expectations clearly. To me that's probably what they should have done from the start here, is set expectations more clearly that this is not the Cyberkongz of bitcoin and they're going to build for the next five years, which to be completely honest, was the vibe I kind of got a little bit.

Mismanaged Expectations

I thought this was their planting their flag on bitcoin and this was going to be their kind of premier fungible token that they would build for a long time. And if that isn't the case, then it's just like it's okay to start non utility and then like move towards utility. For example, it's really hard to start utility and then move to non utility. That's much more challenging.

Clarifying Stance

So just to clarify my stance there specifically, I know Bongo, I think, had his hand up first. And Adam, I mean, real quick, I do want to just add before I go to Bongo, I think that they didn't get the right advice, you know, that's what I think. And so I pinned to the top, you know, some people that if you guys were upset, you know, Henry's a cool guy.

Advice and Accountability

You probably better direct your anger towards their advisors, who I've been to. The top one being yon. I know English. I see him in the audience. He's on there too. Nft boy. Those are the three that I would take your angry out on. Go ahead, Bongo. Well, you all have mentioned that they. Didn'T make any money, but they wanted. To, they wanted to load up.

Expectation vs Reality

They wanted to make multiple millions, all of them. They wanted a fat bag. But they got caught up. They came at the peacock top of. The market and they're not here to. Write and they capitulated and they left. They pick a good name. They knew what they were doing. They knew worst case scenario, bye community takeover. And that's what they did.

Evaluating Community Takeover

And it's all right at the end. I think they brought value to the ecosystem. It's a cool ticker. And now we can have a new Kol supporting and taking ownership over the centralized. So we'll see. I do want to know what they. Want to do with their tokens because. They have a bunch and I don't.

Community Management

Want them selling into the community if the community takes over. So they should talk about that. They should also announce the IP if they're serious about the decentralized aspects. There shouldn't be any concept of IP and a decentralized system in my opinion. Great points.

Different Perspectives

Bongo. Adam, what's up man? Yeah, it's interesting to Bongo's point, I think they took a risk, they took a shot here and yeah they spent money, but they got a. Bunch of tokens for themselves like all Kong holders. If you did their kind of steps, you got an allocation. And so obviously they have, I'm sure, quite a lot of tokens.

Evaluating Risks

And it seems to me like they took a calculated risk. If, you know, if runes takes off, you know, they cash in. I think the thing that's probably disappointing. I'm not a holder, so I'm not disappointed at all. But my feeling would be that, hey. It'S like they took a risk and. Then just bowed out when runes didn't, you know, pan out.

Builder Expectations

And that feels like, you know, from a builder's perspective, like just kind of crappy, right? Just because, I mean, like, you know. We see with you, Leo, right? It's like, dude, you're not leaving. There's no leaving here, right? And I think that from a, from. You know, what we expect of builders. Is you come in and you build.

Building Through Challenges

It doesn't matter. You're in for the bad times too, I think. And that feels a little bit, you know, if I was a holder, I'd. Feel, I'd feel cheated in that way. You know, it's so interesting you say this, Adam. I'm not trying to be devil's advocate here or anything, but it's like part of me almost respect.

Intentions and Respect

I don't like it when a team has, they're internally rugged and, but they're just going to pay community manager to just, you know, do the bare minimum for the next two years just to save face. I almost respect that they're not doing that. Like some people might be mad at me for saying this, but I absolutely hate when projects do that.

General Expectations

So it's like, I'm a weird one on this one because I actually do like the people behind the team, and I don't think they're, like, evil or anything like this, but, yeah, Adam, look, bottom line is, it's honestly the general rule of thumb for the spaces. Set expectations low. Like, you always want to meet expectations, basically.

Meeting Expectations

So if you set expectations high, you're gonna have people pissed at you if you don't deliver on those expectations. It's literally that simple. And, like, I think to most people, they did not deliver on expectations. Unfortunately, for what they, you know, for what you'd expect from a. Look, they're a legit team.

Legitimacy and Reputation

It's like, people aren't like, this is not just like some random new project where it's like, most random new projects sales. Like, they're a company that has a very successful project on Ethereum. And I think, again, the word Cyberkongz means a lot to people who are here during 2021, and people just expected that, but on bitcoin, and that's not what happened. And I understand.

Understanding Frustration

I very much understand the frustration. Do you consider flipping doge low expectation? Because that was what you're setting up with that? Because it's like, I really. Let's keep the questions to high level. High level questions only. I realized I was a bit hypocritical in that statement. I do also make it very clear that's the goal.

Future Outcomes

I can only promise that we're going to have a very entertaining journey. We will either be going to McDonald's or the moon. These are the two outcomes. And I've been pretty clear about that. But, yeah, Bongo, look, I do very much spend a lot of my energy on trying to flip doge.

Efforts Towards Success

I do think that would be pretty legendary. Okay, artificial, what's up? What are your thoughts on this? Hey, good morning, everyone. I just wanted to call out, I appreciate the conversation, but they did give themselves a four and a half percent allocation of the total supply.

Advisor Discrepancies

So it's interesting to hear, especially the advisors here, talk about not receiving a portion of that, because that was kind of the implied I allocation. Like. Okay, so where's that four and a half percent? Is it going to your team or is it going to these folks here? You know, another one that they showcase on their profile was shin as well.

Lack of Accountability

So it's like, kind of leveraging your names as advisors and then finding out, at least from what I saw in the timeline, that people were not, you know, even giving advice seems very odd to me. So the expectation there is you're just getting a white list spot, but they're not actually listening to the core people within ordinals. So what was the point of having advisors?

Transparency Issues

It'd be nice to know kind of what those conversations look like behind the scenes. And then we also have to, like, rewind back to the Promethean airdrop. Like, there's not a lot of transparency around how some of those, how that airdrop went down. I mean, sure, they told you what communities they were dropping, but I, you know, now we're hearing that if you completed certain steps within Cyberkongz, you got an allocation there.

Airdrop Allocation

You know, how. How did the airdrop benefit their wallets for the Prometheans particularly, too, I think, you know, assuming it's so altruistic and it's this dollar amount of what they contributed kind of deflects from any accountability that they could have been loading their pockets, unloading Prometheans when they saw the meteoric rise they did in the kind of prunes era.

Concerns of Profitability

So I really doubt that they weren't, you know, making back some money to protect their investment. And then as well, like, they were also boasting that they overspent to get rune number two. I mean, like, the amount that they threw down to get, let's say, a top ten rune, like. Like that was a choice of theirs.

Investment Choices

I don't think they necessarily had to do that. I don't think their providence would have been discredited if they got somewhere else in the, you know, first ten runes. And there was, you know, others that placed in the first ten runes that paid a very fractional amount to even get placed there. And, yeah, I don't know.

Calls for Accountability

I just think time and time again, like, we want to see accountability, and I think it's better to be, like, direct and be open and honest about what transpired. And I don't think it's all, you know, were here to just give to the bitcoin and ordinals community. And, you know, I've gone back and I'm starting to dig around the wallet distributions of the Prometheans because I think that's a better paper trail.

Community Welfare

But I still think there's, you know, some answering to be done about this four and a half percent. What's being done with that? And then, you know, if you wanted to go this decentralized, like, cool concept, but also you bricked the Twitter. This is going to be the last post on the Twitter. Like, you're not going to hand over that to someone else that wants to actually cto it and keep account activity moving forward.

Twitter and Community Presence

Like, that just seems like a dumb move. Like you tied the Twitter to, you know, decentralized. So now if anyone ever in the future wants to look into it's tied to an account that's no longer making posts, is no longer active, and just expecting people to take their own personal profiles to advocate for it.

Critique of Decisions

Yeah, it just seems like a dumb, short sighted play. And I'm really confused where they, like, how they came to this conclusion and with all these advisors that were here, like, were they actually getting your advice or not? And like, what was the point of even having these advisors other than trying to instill confidence in what this project was and just leveraging your names to, you know, kind of exploit I the community and instilling confidence in it?

Conclusions and Next Steps

So look, I think these are honestly a lot of very reasonable questions. I did look. So I'm looking at the holders now. I see the top wallet has 0.82%. So look, I think you kind of have to have proof that they were selling or something to say something like that. But to me, it's a little odd.

Analyzing Token Distribution

You'd have four and a half percent of the supply and spread them out through wallets. That's a little weird to they would have to answer this. I can't speak to it. Basically, I have no more information. At the end of the day. I think the advisor thing, it's always interesting, a lot of projects do these advisors.

Advisor Roles

I specifically don't take advisor roles just because pretty much what usually happens is it just causes some sort of weird issue where the name is being leveraged. I think in this specific case, I think it's odd usually just so that people understand what advisor usually means, it usually means that you're basically just getting a pre sale on the token as a kol, and then they're going to leverage your name.

Relationship with Team

That's usually what it means in this case. And I trust Jan. It sounds like he didn't get shit. And that's a little odd. And my guess is these guys were literally just a legit team. They're a known, popular team, and I think Jan was excited to onboard them to the space and, you know, literally just wanted to network and be part of that because it was a very exciting thing.

Team Dynamics

And when they asked him, I'm sure he was like, sure, you know, he wants to get to know people in the space and he knows basically everyone. And my guess was, and we can ask him right now, he's literally here, you know, did they ask you for advice. And my guess is they probably did because they're trying to figure out how the hell to navigate bitcoin.

Repetitiveness in Project Promotion

Come on, bro, you cannot come do this shit over and over. This is the culture that we are promoting. So if we are just passing by like the this, I'm gonna make a project tomorrow and I'm gonna dump this on you guys and I'm gonna say, okay, community, come take over. This is what I'm talking about. And as you said, maybe I'm assuming this, but what you are saying is as well an assumption because you don't have any fact to prove they didn't do the rock or scam.

Clarification on Expertise

And I'm just, okay, let me just, let me clarify. I am not an expert on this topic. I spent about three minutes reading the tweet and replied, I enjoyed having Henry on this show like five months ago and talking to him for about an hour. This is the extent of my knowledge on this topic. But I do want to hear like, if you're saying that they sold, just genuinely just go find that out and dude, you're going to be, you're going to have the most viral tweet ever. So that would better than just coming up here and saying that.

Discussion on Valid Points

Yeah, that's basically all I have to say in regards to that. But your later point, look, that is a completely valid point to have. And like, that is the issue that I have with it as well, and I would imagine most people have with it. So that's a completely valid point to make. I specifically don't like the cash grab accusation because again, as far as I can tell, I don't think they made money. Like, that would be my hunch and my guess if the team, you're believing, you know, made money on this, I definitely, I want to hear about that and we will invite you back to share your findings.

Expectation and Reality

But, yeah, my issue is specifically that, yeah, they set expectations about utility and then basically didn't deliver. So that's the term for. That is a rug. And I can see that's a very valid thing that people would be very mad about. Yeah, that's the, that's where the conversation should be. I don't like when it's also, let's have that. But then let's all dog pile and make up a bunch of stuff. I don't like that part. Yeah, it's not makeup. I didn't want to share some stuff.

Investments and Trust

I'm going to share it on Twitter and I'm going to send you guys before, but now let's go on the advisors because I personally invested in this coin because I trusted the names and now I see the names, to be honest, more than anyone is yon, because I know yon is active on a proper project. So I would like to know, and I talked with many community members, I can take more than 7000 people right now to say this and prove this, but people put their name behind projects to support it.

The Importance of Responsibility

It doesn't matter if after it you say you got money or not. But what was the point? I mean, a huge name cannot just go behind the project because they met or their friend for five minutes, you know, now millions of dollars, let's say even $10,000, $1,000 is gone from people's pocket. Why you get my point. It's not, again, I can do the same shit. I'm gonna promote some rocks or by mistake or by intention and tell you guys.

Implications of Being an Advisor

Okay, guys, I didn't know that. So I'm gonna send the proof for the other topic. But this is the topic. We have the people right now here, and I don't think we can say we became advisors without knowing. Advisor in this market means you put your name behind something to pump it. This is the meaning of advisor usually in this market. So now these big names in this small space are behind these projects.

Considering the Risk of Advisement

Yeah. And look, dude, I think it's a valid point. And in general, I don't advise this is a. Yeah. I don't advise being advisors to pretty much anyone because unfortunately, this is, you do enough advising, some of the projects are just going to go absolutely horrendously and your name's going to be dragged down with it. It's a gamble, I think. Again, I just know, I know Jan pretty damn well, guys, and I'm almost 100% sure that he is looking at how can he onboard this great team and make the space better that I'm almost certain was Jan's angle.

Trust and Accountability

And I trust him when he says he didn't make money. So that's my view on that. But Yan is happy. Jan can add more. Yeah, I mean, you're right, man. Like, I, you know, x, like, look, I think your point is valid, right. And it's a lesson learned for me also. You know, like, you know, I'm not gonna hide away from this and, like, delete my tweets and whatever. Like, you know, I don't do this kind of stuff.

The Complexity of Public Perception

Right? Like, you know, I usually, it wasn't that, like, I talked to them for five minutes and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna become your advisor. Right? Like, it was very natural progression of our relationship. And as I said, I still talk to Enzo and Henry. I think they're great guys. I share similar kind of thoughts that Leo shared. Again, do I have a proof for you right now that there is some 4.5%? Like, I don't.

Transactions and Market Dynamics

Like, I don't have it. Like, I don't have it in my wallet. I didn't get anything. I can just tell you this, that I was definitely looking at it from the angle of, like, hey, like, were building ordinals ecosystem. We want to onboard as many people as we can. And, you know, I saw that as a great opportunity. And when they asked me, like, hey, would you like to just, like, help us brainstorm some stuff from time to time, I was like, yeah, for sure.

Importance of Accountability

You know, I'm going to do that. But again, like, you know, I, I think your point is valid, and I also appreciate that we are having this kind of conversation, you know, because again, like, the number one thing that we can all do is to learn from this, right? And, you know, again, like, not hide away from it. Just, let's have that conversation. And, you know, I am definitely learning a ton here.

Contributions to the Discussion

And, yeah, you know, it's definitely good to be more mindful of these things moving forward, you know? Yeah. And definitely to stand up for Yan here. I've known him for a long time. Yan will often do, you know, more for someone he met for five minutes than he will for someone he's known for a long time. So, you know, it'll. It definitely fits. And if anyone didn't get paid, it was probably yon, because he would just do it for free.

Seeking Transparency

You know what I mean? So the other guys maybe got paid, though, so, you know, no guarantee, but probably not young. Yeah. Accent. Send me the screenshots, dude. I want to see. I want to see. Yeah, I will. I'm in the street. I'm going to send you in, like, five minutes. Ten minutes. Okay, sweet. We'll. We'll circle back there.

Points Raised for Discussion

Okay, Nicholas, you've been waiting very patiently. Do you have thoughts on this? Do you have questions? Anything? Hi. I took a much long needed. Break, and I came back to this. And I'm just sitting here like, okay, like, is this a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Probably a good thing, but whatever. I actually raised my hand immediately once. I heard the part about how he.

Connecting Projects and People

Saw Jan as an advisor, and, like, you really can't connect one project to the next. I get it. Yes. He's. He's on a legitimate project. But what people have to understand is, number one, we're not robots. So if you see one person is one project, and then they're an advisor to another project. I don't. That's more like, yeah, that's just bullshit. Pretty much.

Interpreting Acceptable Risks

And then we usually means you're getting a presale token. That's why people take advice. There's a lot of people on the SAP guys. Incentives are pretty natural. When you see people tweeting about it and they're an advisor or an ambassador. Those are the two terms. They're just getting paid to tweet about it. Literally. That simple. Sorry. Keep going.

Accusations and Public Figures

Yeah, no, but the who's talking before? Because I couldn't see who was talking. Was it axe? Because he ended up putting his hand. It was x. Yeah, so, okay, so. Yeah, so, like, bro. But the thing is. And I know how it works. Like, I do the same thing, but you can't blame that person afterward either, you know?

Attribution of Blame

Then who should we blame, bro? If they're not. He's not running. He's not running. He's not running the project, bro. Is that. That's the thing. It's the person running the project. It's like, you're not. Is gonna make all the people broke, and everyone will leave ordinals or nfts.

Communicating Financial Stakes

If you want to look, the mentality. That you're using pro. Like, by. My parents are from Cyprus, okay. I was at my cousin's clothing store. And the guy goes to him, can I buy. Can I get this shirt? And I'll pay you back in two weeks. That's literally, like, what you're telling me here.

Understanding Perspectives

Like, we're stuck on, like, that credit. System from, like, a hundred years ago. That's literally what. Like, that's literally what you're telling me. I couldn't believe what the hell was. Going on when I saw that. No, bro, I'm sorry, but I always try to talk to it.

Promoting Accountability

What you are saying now is you just want to promote the mentality that the scams are good and some more people. Yawn. Is a known person, and I. He was the advisor, and he accepts that it was a mistake. I'm gonna send them text message that they asked me to don't share to Leon, and I'm gonna share it publicly that they said this money was divided and there is no money left.

Framing Realities

You get it? So I'm not assuming something. This is the reality, no matter how many people want to frame it. Yeah, about the money, though, I'm talking about how you're just throwing the blame at everybody that. I don't show blame on anyone. I'm saying the advisors and team, they promise something big to people.

Analyzing Heavy Implications

People put their money. The team rocked advisors. They saying, we don't know any shit. What the fuck, bro? This is what I. I don't blame anyone randomly. This is what happened. People from ordinal community got hurt. Few individuals made money. They were false promises. They were false promotions.

Discussing Community Involvement

We can assume people they didn't know, they joined, advisory or not. But this is reality. Please don't frame the reality in a way, that. Situation is that you put. Money in a small business, and it failed. I'm not sitting here saying, no, they didn't fake. They left.

Continuing the Conflict

Yeah. Okay, so pause. I'm just gonna be real quick. I don't want. Don't want the back and forth to go too much. I appreciate because you guys both made your points. Like, look, I do think x I'm gonna lean on exercise here pretty much. It doesn't matter whether it's you're an ambassador for some startup or marketplace or something, or if you're advising for a PFP project or if you're literally just bull posting about something that, like, you just saw, there's something that looked interesting and you wanted some engagement because it was the top thing to talk about.

Contributing to the Conversation

And then you tweet about it, and it's all the same thing. You're associating your name with something and you're basically lending credibility. You have to understand that these markets have intangible assets. The assets literally have no value unless it's the power of the people and the network behind it that is intrinsically where the value comes from. And it is like when I'm just gonna use myself, for example, if there's some random ordinals project and I tweet about it, that adds value to that thing.

Navigating Reputational Risks

My name is now associated with it. I'm basically taking, it's the way the world works. There is no, there's no, like, there's no such thing as truth. There is only credibility. So, like, I built up some level of credibility, okay? And then I can use that. If I do something like call out Raktoshi for being the world's biggest piece of shit and fucking over a bunch of people in the space, then guess what? I'm gonna increase my credibility over time from that.

Ongoing Consequences of Actions

I'm gonna have people pissed at me. But in the end, my credibility is gonna go up because I stood up and I called out some shit. And I know how that's gonna end years from now, okay? If I, for example, tweet about a project like crypto schools or something, okay, and I'm genuinely bullish on it, and then it goes down, I lose credibility. That's how these markets work.

Measuring the Influence of Associations

So if you associate your name with something and the number goes up, people will make money and your credibility will, you'll get even more power and influence. Very similarly, the market will take away influence and power from someone who loses people money by associating their names with things. Again, whether this is your own project, whether this is you tweeting about someone else being an advisor, being an ambassador, yada, yada, okay?

Reflecting on Market Dynamics

And what I basically see in this space, I've been here ten years now and been in this, like, nft stuff full time for three years. What I see is just the standard course that gets run is there is, you know, somebody comes into the space and they start, you know, they get a little twitter following, and then they leverage that unintelligently and they make money off of it, and they got some credibility somehow, and then they just leverage that credibility to make money.

Understanding the Risks

But eventually it goes to zero because, you know, they basically extracted their money from it. It's very hard to just pick all the great projects over and over. And most influencers, like most influencers here today, were not the NFT influencers of 2021. Spoiler alert, they all ran that course. They all run a very similar course.

Personal Lessons Learned

And I specifically was like, okay, I'm this 25 year old kid. I'm trying to figure this shit out. I'm not going to take any advisor roles ever again because I've just watched basically half my friends get completely wrecked by this. And it's just a lesson that I learned. If you're an advisor on a project that does exceedingly well, right, then your credibility actually goes up.

Navigating Challenges

You're basically being like an investor in something, but then you're telling other people based on associating your name with things in the space, whether basically you're going to indicate they should buy it or not. That is the reality of the space. And yeah, you have to own things. When people lose money and you try to put your name on a few specific things, this is what I basically learned.

Strategizing for the Future

Put your name on a few specific things that you're genuinely very bullish on. I extremely bullish on ordinals, went all in, backed this shit up from day one. And when people called me out when prices are down, I didn't give up on it. You just keep going forward basically because I truly have conviction in this.

Maintaining Credibility

There are several projects I do the same thing with. And like, ultimately, if one of those things fails, if ordinals fails, if dog fails, it will probably wreck my reputation and completely. And that is a risk I'm having to take. What you definitely cannot do is do the advisor. Advisor, advisor, advisor. It's a guaranteed path to like, you're not going to be around very long.

Advice for New Entries

So that's basically just my advice to a lot of people in this space. It doesn't matter if your account has a thousand followers or 500 followers or 50,000. When you tweet about something and then it goes down, people are going to be pissed at you and if it goes up, then people are happy with you and you're going to get more credibility.

Understanding Market Dynamics

And that is like very intrinsic to how our markets evaluating non tangible assets works. It is the people behind these projects that bring them value. And the name, I do think access a point. The name matters a lot when you associate it with something. And I actually do view that as a very sacred thing.

Critical Reflections

I'm not going to call out a specific project here, but interestingly, I did lend my name as an advisor type thing to a project in the past two years, a year and a half, and I did it when they were just a company that didn't seem to have any code. I couldn't imagine they would launch a token, find out a year later I'm in a tweet and they're launching a token.

Lessons from Past Experiences

And because I was like an advisor from a year before trying to help, I'm somehow now associated with that. Basically, my lesson was that from, that was just like, even if. Basically, yeah, don't trust anyone and be very careful who you're putting your name behind. That's basically all I'm going to say. Yeah, be very cautious about who you put your name behind.

Reputation Management

I have definitely put my name behind things that have gone down in value and it has hurt my reputation and very much learned those lessons. And I'm very specific around who I will put my name behind because of that. People, projects that I'm actually very bullish on. I just want as well, because I don't, basically, I have nothing to gain from doing it.

The Fragility of Public Trust

And it's kind of unfortunate because I can't tweet about basically any assets that I hold. Some of the projects that I'm most bullish on in this space I literally have not tweeted about in a year and a half. But we'll happily tweet about other projects that I don't hold because it's a free pass. I don't hold the thing. It's, it's a very unique space, guys.

Lending Reputation for Value

And I do think lending your name is actually a very critical aspect to these markets and is what makes these things accrue value. So gonna take x aside a little more on there. Nicholas. I'm gonna unmute. If you want to respond or share anything or x if you guys don't want to, no worries at all. We'll move on.

Reflecting on Lessons Learned

I do think there's an important lesson that I have learned in this space. And I do think, yeah, the name association is a thing and like, beyond. John understands this. Jan very much understands this. He's not denying that, you know, we put his name on it and I'm sure he hates how this all played out.

Trust and Responsibility

And, you know, he just basically was very bullish on the thing. He wasn't intentionally trying to fuck anyone over, but then it didn't turn out well, and it's not his company, so he can't do shit about it. I'm going to unmute now. Yeah, but also want to say, like, you know, and again, I'm not trying to like, you know, find a way out or whatever.

Open Dialogue and Reflection

Like, you know, I'm happy to have conversations with people one one. I think x left, but I'm always happy to chat one one. I just don't want to add on Twitter to some fat or whatever, because I think that's not really an effective way to have a conversation. But ultimately, I know now, listening to you, Leo, specifically, kind of like sharing these stories.

Accepting Personal Accountability

Of course, in the retrospect, it's pretty clear, yeah, you're an advisor. That means usually you're getting allocation. That's what people assume. You know, that's kind of how you're framed in the whole conversation. And, you know, this wasn't the case, especially not for me. And so I kind of didn't even think about it. You know, I didn't even consider the ramification that if something goes wrong, like it could actually, you know, somehow damage my reputation just because there was no allocation.

Lessons in Advisors

There was no, like, real kind of like getting money for something or this. It was literally just like, yeah, guys, like, if you want to brainstorm something, if you need some help with something, like, you know, I'm here. You can call me up anytime, you know, because I appreciate the work that you have done. I think you're cool guys, etcetera.

Understand the Implications

And so that was my kind of train of thought. But again, I do understand the optics. And, you know, I'm sure that, you know, again, lesson learned. And I think what you just said, leo, you know, advice, general advice to people, I think that's a really good advice, you know, for somebody who is maybe in the first cycle.

Encouraging Shared Understanding

Yeah, literally, it applies to every single person in this room. When you tweet about a project, like, it's all the exact same phenomenon. If you make. If you make good calls, people will lend credibility to you and your reputation will go up and vice versa if it doesn't happen. I think Internet, I believe Internet dollar is up next.

Navigating the Market Landscape

And then bless, and then. Charlie. Hey, Leonardis. Thanks for letting me speak. I'm here because of dog. I just wanted to say I bought my first bitcoin in 2012. Obviously, like, 80% of my portfolio is bitcoin, but for the last, you know, six or seven years, I've been fucking around in the meme coin space.

Sharing Insights on Trends

I see this tweet that goes around always, like thesis for dog. We got to keep slamming that home because it just is, it's a no fucking brainer. Once people, once the friction is removed. In getting dog, it's gonna fucking blow up. And people gotta keep holding and they gotta keep buying the dog.

Leveraging Networking for Growth

Can't talk shit about the dog. And a really good place to talk about dog is LinkedIn because you got a lot of corporate guys who missed that bitcoin boom. So the way you do it is. You just tell them if you miss. Bitcoin, here it is. And it's really working.

Sharing Personal Experiences

Like, I used to work at Amex and Standard Chartered. All my old colleagues are asking, we need more how to buy guides, we need more videos. But this community is rocking. It's really loud. And I just wanted to say thank you for your tweets because you're a fucking machine, bro.

Recognition and Gratitude

Well, appreciate that you're part of the dog army and that you came up and look, I mean, I think that the dog thesis is very strong and I obviously it's the highest conviction thing I have. Ironically, I literally am not going to make money from it other than the five runestones. Airdrop I got again.

Explaining Financial Implications

Because if I had billions of dollars of this thing, then people would just. It would completely fuck the community narrative of it and everything. So it's a very unique situation. But, dude, I am genuinely so excited to basically have thesis play out. I cannot make promises.

Understanding the Future Potential

I cannot guarantee anything. But the dog point of bitcoin narrative is like, very strong. And I watched the dog coin of ethereum narrative play out last cycle. I see no reason why this shouldn't play out the same way. If we have the same access, like, that is we're doing terrible with the giving people access to buy it problem.

Addressing Market Challenges

And that's. That's what we need to fix. So, yeah, dude, look, appreciate you coming up, man. I want to go to bless, what's up, dude? Yo, can you guys hear me? Yeah, I'm going to. You good? Are you. Are you somewhere locked again or what? No, no, I'm in.

Expected Responses

Driving. I'm driving. But I. Yeah, I have, like, what? One not serious. One serious. A little bit not serious. Like. But also serious is like, how. How much evidence do you need before you make, like, a accusation? It's kind of like an interesting topic. You know?

Reflecting on Accountability

Like, it's, you know, like, maybe some of us on this stage, me including, bro, I've. I've said shit. I'm like, yo, now you're this or you did this or this happened, you know? And like, you know, I've definitely got pushback and I've. You know, some other people have said shit recently and then they had, you know, like I wanted to see some evidence for that too.

Encouraging Evidence-Based Discussions

You know, just saying throwing out there, it would be kind of cool. But I'm not like on any side. Yesterday I hosted a space called Leo and Tio versus poly and good things and farm the fuck out of it. And all we talked about was, wait, you actually did? I didn't even get an invite for my own debate.

Highlighting Engagement

That's kind of rude. I didn't let anybody talk about like any of the drama because it's pretty much a, it's. I call them not a farm spaces, but I'm obviously farming. And all we talked about is bitcoin pool. Did you at least get some good numbers on it? Did we at least get some good engagement?

Evaluating Discussion Success

Yeah, a couple, like 100 something, you know, and then ZK came up and then I changed the title and then we got like 200 people then it was actually like, educational. I mean, the whole thing is educational. It's just like, he was like, I'm not coming up over that title, but let's keep talking about bit axis because, you know, it's a some juicy little drama.

Exploring Evidence Thresholds

But yeah, I think that's an interesting topic. Like how much like evidence you need before you can make like an accusation. Because it's kind of like, yo, bro, like, you know, we're all here, some of us have a little bit more influence than others. You know, like, you people take things seriously. But I like it though.

Prominent Discussions

You know, it's. We need to like keep each other in check. It's kind of cool. But, I kind of reminds me of like when I came when I used to debate about the inscription numbers up in this space. It's kind of fun. But the other thing is, I think this decentralized thing is kind of, it's kind of, dude, we're all like, did anybody think runes was going to be like, us crazy?

Questioning Utility

Utility. Like, is there any utility token that's like really cool. Besides, like, I don't maybe like someone like the big companies that people use every day. Like, I don't see anything else, like really be. But you're talking about in ruins or just crypto in general. There's a lot of utility tokens, bro.

Utility Exploration in Runes

Like, utility tokens are no, but in ruins. Like in ruins. Like when did what. I'm just curious, like, did they promise something? Like, I've. The only thing they promised was like this, man. Right? I forgot. Like, I think they. Did they do the mint?

Observing Media Dynamics

Did they actually end up doing a mint or no. Is that, like. I believe they did a minute. I believe they. Look, all I know was that they did the mint and that, like, somebody who's more knowledgeable on this topic needs to speak. I, like. I cannot.

Insight into Stakeholder Dynamics

Basically, what I'll say is if you're. If you're, like, the creator of Cyberkongz and you come to bitcoin and you. You launch a thing, like, it goes. If you're gonna say you're only gonna be here for four months, like, the. The. The assumption should be. The expectation should be set that you're only going to be here for four months, I think it's very reasonable to assume you would be building here for a long time.

Understanding Team Dynamics

So that's the expectation mismatch. When I think people say utility, I think they're just talking about the team would at least tweet about the project for more than four months. Like, that's. That's the only issue that I really have. And that, I think. I think is the fair criticism. And I just don't like the kind of making up the cash grab part, because I just don't see how the team made money personally.

Exploring Observational Insights

I don't. I have not seen any evidence regarding that. The man was paid in. In the token, so they just got the token from their holders. So. And then, like, I guess, like, it's. Yet. If someone wants to track that's easy to track. Like, you look at the, you know, like, where this tokens went.

Addressing Utility Token's Downturn

But besides, I like, yeah, I honestly think it's a yemenite, like, ruins in general, bro. Like, you know, like, we. You know, I'm not gonna fuck us. But ruins were a little down, you know, and so everything is down. So it's not like, you know, I guess, like, the rug aspect is, like, they're.

Analyzing Project Viability

They're not bearing through the bear. The ruins bear market with, like, airplane. So I definitely, like. I like the idea of just, like, a, you know, on pump funds, ctos are bullish and blazing has a hot mic. That's cool, bro. But, yeah, on punt, functions are bullish. So maybe, like, we can get some bullish.

Encouraging Crypto Dialogue

Can someone CTO all of ruins? You guys actually realize there's a lot of. Right. CTO opportunities in ordinals right now? Like, no joke. No joke. I think there's a lot of projects where they would better off not having a founder.

Identifying Project Contributors

Okay, blazing, you. Am I correct that you work for Cyberkongz? I do not work for Cyberkongz. I am a holder but I do talk to the team a decent amount. I will say that mutable trees, the one that helped with the inscription of the number two ruin, just tagged you in a post less than about two minutes ago with the information about all of the money and the stuff that was used, where the allocations went, airdrop completion dates, advisory announcement dates, and basically anything that could help inform the people about what actually happened and how much they did not get paid.

Discussing Financial Allocation

So. Okay. Yeah, so look, immutable trees, they came up and I messaged them. I told them we can't let project accounts on stage. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna read the tweet. I think Chip is trying to join, but, you know, I, I tried to invite him, but he dropped down. So we'll see.

Communicating Project Dynamics

Yeah, so look, I'm just gonna read this tweet because they basically wrote it out. I haven't read it yet. So it says, there is a current discussion happening on the ordinal show about decentralized distribution for the advisors that were announced and whether they were getting paid if the airdrop was complete before the advisors were announced. Logic doesn't hold that.

Clarifying Misunderstandings

I just assumed the advisors were getting paid because they were advisors. Okay, so they said the timeline distribution announcement, April 25. Note that the terminology was launch partners for the 4.5%. So they're saying that the 4.5% is launch partners. Unclear. We don't know exactly what that is.

Contextualizing Project Timeliness

I guess airdrop complete April 29. Advisors announced May 31. So I guess the advisors were announced after. I guess they're making the point that the advisor part was not necessarily tied to the 4.5%. I'm not sure how people would have thought the advisors were getting paid if everything had already been airdropped, non fungible.

Seeking Further Clarification

Yan Leonidas nft I don't know. I think it's a great question to know, you know, who the launch partners are. My guess, my hunch is that the launch partners probably are whoever helped them inscribe and do it, the airdrop, which is not an easy thing to do. So, you know, somebody had to execute the half million dollar transaction on bitcoin.

Understanding Project Execution

This is something very easily you can fuck up. Very few people can do this. My guess is those people who helped with that technical aspect were probably the ones who got some of those 4.5%. I'm curious to know here from the team, like, I just have no idea.

Inquiry into Team Dynamics

But I do think it's a good point that it doesn't look like they ever said the advisors got the 4.5%. They said the launch partners did. But maybe launch partner is advisor. I just don't know. Thank you for sharing that.

Encouraging Open Dialogue

Yeah, no worries. I'm here to help. You know, the team's getting shit on and all they did was literally use a million dollars of their. Not. This is not the team's money. This is somebody on the team who donated their million dollars worth of money, a bitcoin, to create this token that everybody.

Transparency in Financial Contributions

And the Promethean that everybody wants to shit on. Yeah. You know, I got some for free because I'm a holder and have been a holder for fucking four years. Okay. And the fact that they decided to bring other people into this was nice so that we didn't get flack for only giving it to Cyberkong holders.

Cultivating a Broader Community

Like. Like we're trying to bring more people in. Right. It's not about. I don't. I don't care what happens on the e space. We're just trying to make the entire space better. Right. We're trying to grow everything here.

Exploring Future Innovations

It'd be cool if all of these things were interoperable. Obviously, we're very, very early. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main two things that you can do with runes right now are buy and sell. And if you're trying to get sarcastic, hold as well.

Possibilities within Runes

All right. The only other one thing that you can do with. With a rune token is mint in decentralized. So if we're going to start, you know, if anybody else wants to create another project and use that technology, feel free. No one's going to stop you.

Reflecting on Project Intentions

I. Look, I think I agree with a lot of what you're saying in regards to like, and this is my point, I do not think personally that this is like some team that came in with like, evil intentions and stuff. I think they lost money. I think they're probably very.

Understanding Motivations

It's a very unfortunate how, like, that aspect played out and this was not just some crash grab or something. And I don't like that framing. I do think it's a valid critique that if you're coming into a space and kind of building up a lot of excitement around something, I think the expectation is, and we should basically hold every project to this, that you stick around for more than four months.

Conveying Constructive Criticism

That is the sole real critique that I have with this. And that's it. And I think if you got to set the expectation upfront, otherwise people definitely are going to assume that you're building Cyberkong's initiative on bitcoin. Long into the future.

Striving for an Improved Space

I would like to think that we build a space where that is the assumption with stuff. And look, that's the problem here. And people need to prove that they were selling tokens or something. My personal opinion here is I doubt that a team was selling and profiting tokens.

Skeptical of Malicious Intent

This is a team that's navigated pretty thoughtfully over the past couple of years. And I would personally be extremely surprised. So the person coming up claiming that needs to share that information, I just think that the frustration is. The valid frustration, in my opinion, is that they spent four months of effort and then have.

Highlighting Efforts and Challenges

They're going to stop putting in effort. And that's the valid critique here. That's my perspective on it. I could totally see why everybody would be upset. I could absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I also bought more decentralized at like four sats.

Understanding Market Responses

So I'm also down ten x just like the rest of you guys. So don't get me wrong, there is a little bit of, you know, upsetness. But realistically, what it comes down to is what they did is they made it so that it's not. When Cyberkongz.

Community Expectations

When Cyberkongz. When's the next thing? Cyberkongz. It's not supposed to be like that. It's a community project. Like, and so is Cyberkongz. Like they don't get paid a lot. Like they do not get paid a lot from the get go. Cyberkongz has been a community project.

Team Dynamics in Community Projects

Community funded from us via mints. Right. They don't have like a bunch of money. Like, one of the people that is part of the team has a shit ton of money, dude. Is true. Og Koko Bear is God awfully the nicest and most hands on person that I've ever even been.

Reputational Management

Even in the same discord with.

Frustration and Resilience

So the fact that he or she or whoever it is or whatever it is, if it's anyways, like the fact that they've done that was nice. And yeah, I get like the frustration, again with bags being down. I get that. I just, you know, we got to stick around. Like, there's no. You can't just like give up. Especially if you're down ten x and you're trying to sell. Like, that's on you. I can't. I can't stop you from doing that. But, like, there's so much more room to grow in this room space. I just. I couldn't imagine selling right now personally with. That's just me. Okay. Yeah. I mean, look ultimately, people have to make up their own mind. Like, there are examples of ctos being incredibly bullish. My advice to people is you got to get a few leaders in there that have, you know, a significant amount of tokens that are going to champion the thing long into the future.

Community Connection

You need. There has to be some sort of feeling of not everyone just disappears in a few weeks or months or whatever, which is a lot of ctos. So, you know, people got to stick around and actually be in it, and, like, this is their project that they're going to be right or die with for years. That that is what needs to happen. If you do that, I think it'll be super successful. I also don't think that they're done creating. I think that it's just not the main focus of them for right now. I think that's really what it comes down to. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, yeah. The message that I read, I didn't get that vibe, but, I mean, it's just, we don't know, I guess so, okay. Charlie, what's up? Yeah, I've been hearing this a lot. I have nothing to do with this topic, and it's being, unfortunately, my close friend yan and being associated on that.

Lessons in Validation

I just have to wanted to channel just listening and take this in. And I want to share with my good friend. Right. I know Yan almost ten years. It's been. He's a great hustler from web two world. I know him. He's one of the most hardworking person. I really vouch him. But I think for this is a lesson I also encountered in my life multiple times from the web two world being a startup founder, and then in the web three world being android investor. People like to name drop, right. You know, this advisory thing, and people blame you. Advisor. How come you don't know? Actually, a lot of advisors are one of the biggest victim. They actually not people making money. They're people actually being took the blame because people thought, oh, you have a big name.

Navigating the Advisor Landscape

So you know everything. It's actually on that case. I personally encountered on that a lot. So I think for people who maybe, unfortunately, have some situation that lost some money on that, right. Don't make acquisition with no evidence, but also think about who is, what are the intention behind that. Right. I think this isn't putting in perspective. There's a lot of people like the name drop a lot. I think. Leo, you mentioned a very good point about really trying to be careful on advisory stuff. Right. I think sometimes people I literally even encountered that as well. People put their name without asking for permission. Literally like that as well. Right. So it's very difficult to really judge based on, oh, there's certain advisory thing going on, then you assume this will happen, and then there's bad intention happening.

About Expectations and Realities

This is not always the case, and you always need to verify before making some big, bold acquisition. I think that's kind of the two cent I wanted to share. And I think definitely this is not the case with yen, unless there's something really weird going on. But I think this is something, unfortunately, I think with what I've been hearing, it's just something which people. People are learning in the hard way. And hopefully people don't really have any huge damage going on. Right. And I think from what we can share, like, we tried to be very careful building an infrastructure project. Whatever we say on Twitter sometimes, we have been saying no to a lot of project ones to say, hey, can we get a retweet and stuff? Because we realize whatever retweets, we thought it was not a big deal.

Digital Footprints Matter

But if people put that on record, it's like a digital footprint they would dig out one year before. Oh, you retweet this project eventually, after a year, they rack pull or whatever, and we have nothing to do with it. Without any transaction involvement, with any engagement, and they come back to you. So all these digital footprints and fingerprints actually make impact. So, like, for me, as a founder now doing quite a lot of b two B work and supporting builders, and sometimes the builders have bad intention. We don't even know who they are. Like, we say no to a lot of stuff. I probably have to say no to a lot of stuff even further without a verification. I think that goes to many people individually as well, being an advisor, being investor, and, yeah, we kind of, in this interesting digital world, people kind of don't know each other, but after certain interesting competition, we like each other, but you never know what happened.

Transparency in Projects

And then through certain events, people really get to learn who are they? Who really they are. We've been learning that as well along the journey. Thanks, Charlie. I appreciated the take. And you're 100% right, you know, I mean, we deal with this in this space all the time, and, you know, you have a. I mean, I am not the biggest influencer at all, you know, I mean, compared to Leo and Trevor and some of the other thought leaders in the space. But I definitely do understand when I put my name onto something, you know, people automatically associate all x versus, like, you know, saying that this is the real deal. So, you know, I don't take this lightly. Right? I don't take this lightly. I, you know, again, I'm open to the criticism.

Advisors and Expectations

I'm happy to have conversations, happy to clear things out, you know, and tell people exactly what happened from my end, you know, happy to have those conversations anytime. Not going to shy away from them. But is John Rogan. Yeah, yeah, you just cut out about 5 seconds ago, dude. maybe hop. Maybe hop off. Hop back. All right. Yeah, he rugged really hard. Wow, that was okay. maybe you got a phone call. I mean, I don't know. I don't like. Maybe that is why yon's always fucking. He's just so popular. He's getting phone calls all the time. So many. So many advice or gigs. Maybe he's just getting all these advisor gigs. I don't know. Yeah, just from being up here, man.

Serial Advising Issues

Look, I kind of, like, I gotta push back a little on what Charlie's saying about the advisor thing. I know a lot of people in this space who are just serial advising, and literally, it's just basically, they have influence. They're just selling out the influence to the highest bidder. They tweet the shit for a couple of weeks, then they do it over and over. That's actually a lot of people. That is definitely not Jan, and I just want to make that extremely clear. I think that's fairly obvious for people. Jan is trying to build a company in this space. X verse. That's basically what he's doing here. And again, I think that's all fairly obvious, but, yeah.

Topic Shift and New Ideas

Okay, Leo, you got your hand up or actually, hang on. We're going to get you on. We're going to yawn back here. We're going to get yawn up on co host again. Yo, yo, real quick, I just got a really good idea for a community project. What if you just graded kols and influencers and you have, like, a score sheet of, like, literally, like, wins and losses? So it's very transparent how many wins they've promoted and how many losses they promoted. Yeah, honestly, it's interesting you say that, like, smart, no joke. Like, it's got to be like the. You could do it. The model is unfortunately way more complex than what you just said.

Nuances in Grading

If you were to grade every ethereum, NFT, basically anybody who tweeted about ethereum and FTSE in 2021, every single one of them gave terrible advice. Like, everybody lost all their money. So my point is, pretty much, you have to give. It's just more nuanced. Like I know it when I see it and it's not. Yeah, there's a specific archetype like when it's a serial. Like when I feel the person is doing it in a serial type of way. Some people like comment a just comes to mind. Just I think they're just terrible at making traits. Just not good trader. Not a whole lot more complicated than that.

Market Dynamics

I honestly don't have much to issue with that. To be totally frank. I think the market will punish that you won't have great call shot abilities. Really. The thing I'm specifically I do have issue with is when I feel like it's a very coordinated, specific strategy. I think the fact that we give them the term Kol now is nuts. Like it's really the amount of people who've reached out to me like well connected higher ups in the space asking if I would like to be connected to their KOL network in Asia for promoting Runestone or dog or something. It's this whole weird thing where the centralized exchanges and the Kols and the market makers and the VC's and this is not actually all the VC's, I call them pseudo VC's.

Challenging Dynamics

They're really just hedge funds trading these tokens. There's like a. That those four entities all have this weird thing where they kind of control what goes. Like they have the strongest lever to move things up and down and like we're at the other end just like doing what they say. I really don't like that. That's kind of what dog is about is breaking past that we specifically not done any of this stuff with dog. And I look, I think it's ultimately a spectrum but when I don't feel like it's. I really do think it's like in a lot of ways it's just case by case where it's like, you know, you could equally say, you know, Jan lost as much money for someone from this as somebody else.

Contextual Understanding

But I'm like, that's not how I view the situation with Jan at all. I think it's very actually contextual, to be completely honest. And when somebody is doing this as basically just. I think the term is a grifter. That is when I'm like, okay, this is a very different classification. And yeah, they're just extracting as much money as possible as in a very kind of sneaky slithery way. So I just. Yeah, the model would be very interesting to build it I think somebody actually probably can build it some. Honestly, probably these AGI's will just get good enough or you just like, ask it, you know, and it'll like have the full context of Twitter and like, it'll give you like some decent view on that.

Evolving Contexts

So maybe it'll just build itself, but I think it's just, it is pretty nuanced, to be honest. It's not as straightforward as that. Because genuinely, dude, like, 6529, right, just because he tweeted about a bunch of ethereum NFC projects that are down massively, like, do I think that dude is a bad person at all? Do I think that guy's trying to fuck over the space? Do I think he's grifting? Not at all. Like a no, I think is a great value add to the ecosystem. So it's a little bit more nuanced. But it's not gonna be like, oh, man, if you made back clause, you're a fucking grifter.

Measuring Impact

It's more like transparent. Like, even. I think it's actually good information to know that this person has made a lot of bad clauses, even if they're a great person. You know, you gotta take the good or the bad. Like it's like one of those things where it's like maybe some people are very cautious with their cause and they're, you know, they call less and they, most of their calls have been hits because they only tweeted out when it's actually something that they really, really believe in. I can only think of like a couple people, probably. ZK is someone that comes to mind, obviously.

Working Ethic and Reputation

Like, no bias ever. Like, but he also has barely talked about anything. Like, literally, like, nowadays he's just like, back in the day, he used to be d gods caller and he was like, doing pretty good calls and I'm pretty sure he tried to fucking onboard all of Solana at one point. So, like, there's certain people I can see in that realm there. There's rarely made calls and this can benefit a lot of people. Like, I'm not gonna do it because I obviously, honestly bless. I literally think the app we're on is essentially what you're describing.

Innovative Applications

Right. It's like, this app actually works pretty well. Like, you know, Ansem tweets about wif and everybody becomes like minting many millionaires. He get, like, he gets 500,000 followers, massive credibility, huge rise to fame or whatever, and he gets to then have a bunch of credibility to make a bunch of more shots. The market is like, look, this guy made a great shot. He made us a bunch of money, and then now we're going to listen to his next shots. And then basically he leveraged that credibility and then people lost money because he made some bad calls.

Cumulative Consequences

And he's acknowledged this. And now his credibility is not the same. And if you were to call the shot on something today, it really wouldn't probably move even remotely as much as it would have right after he had all the credibility freshly built up from Wif. So the app is decently good at it. I think the tool you're describing would be nice for people who don't have the time to really pay attention to this app, and they just need the quick lowdown. I will. And then I'll just end this. People do build stuff like this. They build it in politics, they build it in all sorts of things.

Challenges in Implementation

It usually just ends up getting completely gamed. And I'll just give one very simple example, I think binance to. There's this whole issue with FTX and proof of reserves and which exchanges are legit or not. This is a thing, it's like, okay, it seems like a good idea. Let's have a list of ranking the exchanges, and we're going to create this algorithm that determines what their score is. And you go to the list on coinmarketcaptaindeh. And they actually changed it recently because they got criticism from this. But it was like Binance was a 9.8 out of ten, right? Then the next best one was like Coinbase at like 7.5 or something.

Trust in the System

And then it goes down and down. And obviously Coinbase, Coinmarketcap is owned by Binance. So it's like these lists, unfortunately, usually get rigged completely, and it's very hard to even trust the list. That specific top crypto spot exchanges list was the biggest fucking joke I've ever seen. that fact that binance owned it and then had this like insanely higher score than Coinbase, it was just, yeah, I don't know. Like, Coinbase is like by far the most highly regulated, safest place to trade your token. Like, this is not a question at all.

Bias in Ratings

so bottom line, all I'm saying here is these lists are great in theory, but usually they get like hijacked by people who are manipulating the list. It's like when you search for top laundry detergents and then you like, click the top link, it's like top ten laundry detergents. And then it's from like some laundry detergent brand wrote the list, and it's like, number one is them, and then it's like the next nine. And these things are super biased in many regards, and they usually get gamed like that. But I. Look, I like the idea. I'll shut up. I talked way too long about that.

Desire for Transparency

I want to go to Leo, who was waiting super patiently. What's up, Leo? Yeah, what's up, guys? Hope you're all doing well about decentralized. Again, I don't really have any specific thoughts on this. I haven't been following too closely, and I also think most points were made already. I just think all we can do is really like, look at people's attentions because this is what matters, right? But probably not just look at what they say or tweet out or make promises. Right. I think it's. It's a good idea to also look at what these people do because everyone can say a lot and make a lot of promises, right.

Conclusions and Reactions to Projects

Regardless of whatever the track record might look like. But actually, I wanted to get back to the CTO topic because I thought it's quite interesting. Also, there was some stuff on the timeline, some ideas of the decentralized community to make something like this happen. As I said, I haven't been following too closely, so I don't really know how the teams supply, how the situation is there. But yeah, I think bless mentioned it as well, the whole CTO meta or something. Right? I think it came from Pam fan on Solana. There were quite a few successful ctos, and then this whole thing became kind of a matter, if I'm correct.

Community Engagement

But what I saw is that these successful ctos on Solana mainly came from these like, memetic, strong meme coins. Like these typical meme coins. Right? And when we look at decentralized, it's not your typical meme coin, what it was supposed to be this kind of provenance coin, and then with some utility added and stuff like this. So I'm not sure. Also, I feel like provenance is more attractive for non fungibles in this market, especially on bitcoin, I feel like. So I'm really curious about some people's thoughts about how this CTO might look like. I mean, Leo already said you need some good voices, some good leaders to lead this whole CTO.

Marketing and Development Challenges

But I think in terms of grabbing attention on the timeline and leading this typical pump fund CTO of some meme coin will probably be a hard time with decentralized. We also talked about it on another space, I think, this morning where we just talked about it one or two minutes. But I thought it might be a cool idea, maybe that the people who take over the project might start collaborating with upcoming ordinal projects and maybe make them kind of pay with decentralized and then burn this stuff or some ideas in this direction away from this kind of meme aspect. Because, as I said, I personally feel like this would probably not work.

Exploration of New Directions

Like, just pushing this on the timeline and attracting people like this. Yeah. Again, this was kind of my thing. It's like, it's either a meme coin or it's not. And like, to me, it's like, I think it would be hard to make it a meme coin. I don't think that's just not necessarily the narrative. I think you guys have to kind of experiment a little and find, you know, what. What role you want to make it play in the ecosystem. But look, I do think, you know, good leaders brought in there. I do think you can do some pretty damn interesting stuff, actually.

Wrap-Up and Future Possibilities

Okay. I see somebody who maybe works for Cyberkongz. I'm going to try to bring them up. I apologize. I'm going to remove you down. Chip, thank you for coming through. I want to get up here cheap. Hell with Cyberkn. Sorry. Say it again, Bongo. I didn't catch sheep. He worked with the centralized two. Is that where. You joking or serious? No. Chip. Chip and ship. My bad. Dude, that was. That's embarrassing. Okay, hang on, hang on. Internet, Internet dollar. I really appreciate you. I got to get Chip up here. All right, Chip, that's a big goof by me.

Contributions and Contextual Background

I'm going to invite you right back. I am very sorry. Okay, Chip is invited back and then. What's up, man? Are you related to Cyberkongz in any way? Hey, do you hear me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically been a holder for three years. A little bit more. The thing is, obviously, you know, I've. Seen a lot of backlash on the CK team. And, you know, one thing is that. It wasn't the whole team, you know. Working on this project.

Understanding Backlash

It was mainly two. And obviously they got some advisors. But one thing that the people have. To, you know, to see and probably. They don't know a little bit about the history of CK is that they are always, you know, they're not afraid to, you know, experiment and try to push boundaries. Even though if it's. If it's, you know, if it's a huge risk, if it's a. If it fails, basically, you know, that's something that me as a holder would. Never like, tell them no or feel bad about it.

Innovative Team Approaches

You know, I'm one of the guys that always. I hear them for, you know, innovating on the. On the space. But the thing is that then the team never. I think that people are saying that. The team was always like, you know, putting a lot of promises. And if you see all the tweets, if you go to the discord every day, they were talking and they were always like, saying that it was more. Like a rune for people to, you. Know, that decentralized clicks with them.

Expectation vs. Reality

That's. It was pushing that message. I think that the original plan was just to be a rune, but at the end they wanted to see or give the people what they wanted. I saw a lot of tweets about, you know, we want to PFP. We want this. We want this. So, you know, they try to innovate and basically do a mint with the rune itself. And I think that the team, you know, they. They comprehended that it's too early. They have a lot of things on their plate, but there's nothing to be done, you know, right now with the rune, I think that f ck is.

Strategic Direction

Trying to do something. We don't know yet, but that's it, man. You know, I see a lot of backlash. I see a lot of things. People seeing cash grab. And I strongly think that's not the case. As you said before, the way that they handle it, you know, might be. A better way to do it. But the cash grab thing, I just think it's ridiculous at this point, to be honest. Where's the guy, by the way, who made these accusations and wanted to post proof here? Yeah, man, like, I want to see the proof.

Desiring Transparency

He disappeared. Me too. He never dm me. For what it's worth, for the people who are listening since then. Yeah, it's. It's whatever. I honestly really want to hear what Chip has to say. I know he's probably been waiting a minute. Yeah, definitely. No, but, yeah, just wanted to clear. You know, a little bit of the air and. Yeah, look, it's great to have your perspective.edu.

Appreciating Involvement

i appreciate you coming through. And your PhD is pretty dope, by the way. Thank you, sir. Okay. Yeah. So, Chip. Sorry, I'm. I was mistaken there. So you don't work for Cyberkongz, I believe, but you are helping to potentially kind of join the CTO conversation. I'm curious your thoughts on this.

Community Involvement

Well, Leo, I'll even back it up a little bit to give you context on what Blazin and all these guys are talking about it was my self immutable trees that were the ones that did the actual technical work for etching room number two for Cyberkongz. So we've been kind of involved actively since the beginning. And so there's a lot of points that have been said today. Obviously, I'm sitting on my hands here just listening to what the back and forth and I mean, to what everybody's saying.

Clarity and Collaboration

There is no truth behind, at least from our knowledge. And this is why we chose to work with Cyberkong. They're like the incentives were aligned. We've been trying to drop a project, mutable trees, obviously, for a long time. And we actually dropped everything were doing with mutable trees because when we talked to the Cyberkongz team and what they wanted to do with runes and in the space, it was very much in line with our idealisms onboarding and teaching people about bitcoin.

Editor's Note

And that was their, like some of their original goals here in the space. And that's why we said this aligns with what we believe in and what we want to do with the space. And so we said, yeah, we would love to help you guys out with this and try and do it to the best of our abilities. And so that's why we dropped everything for the having and went to work on doing this etching. So that's where that started. Just to kind of give you some background on what we, why this is so like near and dear to us and why we're looking at these community takeover and what we're trying to figure out.

The Nature of Decentralization

Because decentralized always was meant to be a community project and a decentralized thing. But unfortunately, sometimes when you have a big team behind it, people make up their own expectations of what they want to see, come to like see that project evolve into, even if that's not something they explicitly said they were going to do. And so I'm not going to stand up and speak for the team on their behalf. That's like, it's just from our personal experience with them, they're great guys.

Concluding Thoughts

They, and we can, I mean, if that guy had sent you anything, I would have loved to have seen it because, I mean, were very personally involved with all the inside stuff and there's a lot of stuff we can't speak about, but there's a lot of stuff that's been said today that we can refute as well. And if it came up to one of those proof things, we would be, I mean, that would always be fun to play with, because the team was very selfless in their whole original idealisms of this. And so I think as far as, yeah, maybe them walking out and the way they did it disappointed a lot of people.

Path Forward

But I think it also gives the token, I think it gives room number two a better chance at becoming something bigger than it could ever be. As a utility token. I think there's a lot of hope for people to be able to see like that you can use decentralized as a decentralized token and do whatever you want with it. That was the initial goal. And so that's why anybody that wants to do minting with it, anybody that wants to actually use it, I mean, that's what it's for. It wasn't meant to be strictly the Cyberkong token.

Decentralization Mission

They just wanted to do something and use it to bring in and teach people about bitcoin. And obviously there's a lot of other accusations that float around that, because nobody's altruistic like that. But you know, there are sometimes when people can do things without, like this is us, for example, when all you want to do is educate people. Obviously we need to make money at some point along the way. This brought a lot of good views onto the project and stuff, and they just found that it's tough. This space, bitcoin is not.

Challenges in Bitcoin Space

A bitcoin is the mother chain, and it's not an easy space to be in, especially when everybody's always asking you when. And your goal was never to do when with one single token, it was to give that token to everybody and let them use it. I think we're hoping to utilize the freedom of decentralized in order to show people like what we're doing with mutable trees and showing you that you can mint other projects in decentralized, you can do anything you want.

Community Decisions and Control

We're hoping to take the proceeds from our mint and lock up over 50% of it, and then let the community decide what to do with it. They can either burn it, try to use it to onboard it to a Dexde. That's going to be whatever they want. But that's part of our pledge with our project, and that's kind of like we just want to see the rune carry on. We don't want to see it fail just because people are saying it's a rug pull. It's not a rug pull.

Conversations About Future Directions

It was never meant to be a project. It was meant to be part of this whole rune ecosystem. And if people want to do something with it's decentralized. And that's truly what it is. I definitely hear you. I think on that. I have to push back a little bit if that's the case. The team does just need to be very transparent. Like, this is not a project. Like, they should have just said that. Otherwise they should have.

Value of Transparency

Yeah. Very safe that it would have been a project. This is a very legit team. It's why, like, dude, yeah, it's like, yon's asked by the Cyberkongz team if he wants to like, associate his name. I don't think that's a very ridiculous thing to do. Okay. The two. The two things that are, like, I want to see if you potentially have insight on that just don't add up to me is the accusation that they're selling these tokens. Like, that the team is selling tokens.

Investigating Allegations

That does. I highly doubt that personally. And there's. I've not seen proof of that. That was being accused earlier. And then two that advisors got the tokens. We have one advisor on stage, I trust Jan, and Jan Sangenge did not get tokens. So can you talk about those two things? Okay, the first one. Can you just repeat the first question? Sorry, I had a screaming child.

Understanding Token Dynamics

You're good, you're good. So do you have any knowledge of the team selling tokens? Because someone came up here and accused that and I. That just doesn't seem like it makes sense to me. But do you have any knowledge of the team selling tokens? Basically no. And I also know that there was pushback from some members of the team to even accept tokens due to where they're positioned around the world and security issues and such.

Current Insights

So I know that from what we've seen, that wasn't the case. I know that I asked to be paid in decentralized and so myself, I did sell some of my tokens. Like, we were paid for our work and that. And of course, that's what kept the roof over my head and allowed me to pay, like feed my children for the last couple months. But of course, there were a lot of people in the team that either didn't receive tokens because they didn't want them just for their own reasons, or there was some part of that allocation that was put aside to try and get these things on Dexs and stuff like that.

Transparency in Operations

There's no, from what I know, though, nobody was trying to dump and like, it's easy enough to follow on chain. And I think you made this point earlier. You can see where the wallets that were paid out. And you can see what they've done with their allocations, pretty transparent. And from what we've seen, nobody's tried to dump their tokens or unload on everybody and then just walk away from this. Okay. And then just lastly, do you have any insight onto the advisor getting payments accusation that was just made?

Roles of Advisors

We were told, we were told that when the advisors were brought on, it's because of their knowledge of bitcoin and their standing in our community that it would beneficial to the decentralized to try and figure out how best to move forwards, and that their roles would be from the literal sense of the word advisor and not what we construe it to be in web three, but the actual sense of being someone who's knowledgeable in the space and understands a topic very clearly. And then that they're able to give that knowledge and advice onto the team to try and help them decide what way to move best forward.

Understanding Intentions

And so to my best knowledge, that's what Jan and English and the other advisors were trying to do. They weren't trying to strictly just get paid, pump the token and dump it. The whole goal was to try and actually figure out the best way to move forwards from the predicament that as it stood, the community and everything was associating the token as a utility token, which was never what decentralized was supposed to be. And so they were trying their best to figure out a way to move forwards with it being in their possession.

Making Strategic Decisions

And so that's why eventually the team decided to walk away from the token, because there was no way they could ever disassociate as anything like, because even if it's not strictly said, people just are going to assume because of the relationship between the two. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Look, Chip, I appreciate you sharing a, thank you for sharing, Bongo. Chip, do you know, why did they capitulated so early? Like the market might turn around in a few weeks.

Timing and Decisions

Why give up now? Why not keep pushing a little longer? I don't know. I just know that they have other things that they are working on and like, there's just issues when you have things that are left unfinished, uncertain ends, that it makes it harder to move forwards with another project. Like I, I know this from the sense that like we wanted to drop mutable trees so we could move on to the fact that we could start educating people and were getting tired of continuously push, were tired of continuously pushing our project.

Struggles of Progress

And so a lot of people have said it doesn't make sense in this market what we're doing to, but it doesn't matter. That's not the point. Our point isn't to try and do anything other than educate people right now. Obviously, we've shifted some of this over to allow people to try and. You. Know, spend some of their decentralized and show them a different way they can move forwards. But as far as, like, the team leaving when they wanted to, that was their decision.

Navigational Decisions and Futures

And we. We didn't know anything other than the fact that they told us to, they were going to move away from this. Okay, well, chip, I appreciate you sharing. look, guys, I think we've covered most of the points here. Hopefully, everyone who's been listening from the start has decent understanding of what happened now. Yeah, I think there's not a whole lot more that needs to be said here.

Future Conversations

I think we can move on also. I will say, yon, I don't know about you, but the show has been going for two and a half hours, and I don't know, like, we had a bunch of other segments, but I also have good job and work to do, man. It's 01:00 a.m. 01:00 a.m. my time here. And I was like, I gotta stay through this show today all the way to the end because if I leave in the middle, then I'm gonna be reading some fuck tweets tomorrow morning.

Sign Off and Upcoming Events

So, you know, I am. I'm here. I'm still standing strong, Mandy. Yeah, well, look, I mean, do. Is there a lot of these other topics? You bite one off, we could just talk for like an hour about it. So, like, I don't know, like, I'm fine to wrap up the space here and then just kick some. Some of these topics. Like, we'll know more about fractal by Wednesday.

Preparing for the Future

Like, we couldn't chat about Raktoshi to our hearts content anytime. Yeah, pretty much. I do have to wrap it up a little bit here, so probably makes sense to wrap. Are you good with that? Yeah. Yeah, let's wrap. I just want to say I'm actually going to tweet about it probably tomorrow, but, you know, we have a. We have some newsletter coming out from the ordinal show, so if you guys are not following, you got to subscribe to our SapsTech newsletter.

Final Thoughts

You got to follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcast everywhere. So make sure you do that before you leave this show today. And otherwise, do we actually have something interesting planned, Leo, for Wednesday? I think we have a bunch of segments already. No, I just forgot. I'm too tired. Honestly, dude, we had something. I think we're actually not going to do it this week, but we'll do it another week, I think so.

Looking Ahead

Yeah. We'll have some good stuff coming up for folks. But yeah, still figuring out exactly what the plan will be for Wednesday. Bongo, would you like to say the final word? I was using foreign people on fractal, which is now trading around $14. That puts the market cap above 2 billion. And there's a massive amount of hash rate being pointed at it.

Current Market Dynamics

For merge mining especially, you have some of the biggest poll announcing that everyone. In their pool is going to be. Able to merge mining. And even as people directly pointing hashrate, it's massive the amount. So from the mining side of things, there's a lot of attention and resources being pointed at fractal right now. Yeah, we've said this on the show a couple of times, like pretty much Lorenzo was a great businessman and to me, like, I'm not making promises on behalf of anyone.

Future Considerations

I don't have any relationship, fractal not trading it or anything. But they have essentially, in my opinion, a binance listing lockdown because of the investment in probably binance got a token warrant to get the token and they're going to list it usually how that works. And then they have over half the hash rate of bitcoin that looks like it's going to merge minus thing. So those are the two bull things.

Critical Analysis

I think, like there's no question it's going to pump a lot because of that. My question, it's always the same question. Like, that's great, but is it gonna be like Merlin 2.0 where you get a bunch of great names and all this stuff and it pumps, but then fail to basically build an ecosystem of like organic, you know, DJ's and artists and builders and all this stuff you either do or you don't. And like, I want to figure out if they do.

Long-Term Sustainability

I think it's very hard to do what the ordinals ecosystem has done on here on bitcoin, which is like, get the people in place who are going to be capital allocators, who are going to be writing the code, who are going to be creating the art. Like, it's like creating a little country and you're trying to create the United States of America or something like this right out of nothing in a short period of time. It's very challenging to do that is the question that fractal has.

Future Progression Needs

I have no question that short term, because of the relationships that they made even before it's launched, they're going to pump the thing to moon. There's no real debate around that. It's more like, can they harness that energy that, to be completely honest, only lasts for a short period of time? Can they harness that energy to actually intrinsically create value in their ecosystem? Right now, it's not really that big of an ecosystem to be completely honest.

Challenges Ahead

Can they attract that ecosystem to come over and be sustaining where the price drops in half and everybody doesn't just leave? Like, that is the really hard part. And that's the question that they have to answer still. And that pretty much Noel too, has done, in my opinion. Okay, we're going to wrap up, guys. Thank you, everyone for coming through. We're going to see you on Wednesday.

Closing Remarks

Please be respectful to each other and have. Yeah, have a fun week. Go, go. If, you know, if it's beautiful outside, like where I am right now, it's becoming autumn, it's cooled down, it's just beautiful out. Go spend some time outside. Don't just sit at your computer all day. Have Leo. No, dude, you need to go outside, man. Okay, everybody have a great rest of your week.

Final Goodbye

We will see you on Wednesday. That is it for the ordinal show. Have a good. See you guys. Peace. See you guys. Peace.